mp4 ... and now?

[Faraday]

Im stuck in a dead end.

I tried to rise my creatures. There are a few people at mp4 i can beat. For example my Dark Archer gets 50 - 300 exp every won fight. But some player are very experienced and they have very strange rituals with creatures i don;t know. If my DA survive such a fight, he will get negative exp and tons of them. My DA has enaugh won battles but he need 8k exp more to upgrade!

I know it can be frustrating when u feel that u r the 'weak guy', but thats half the fun.....just keep slogging away with ur fights, don't concentrate so much on Loreroot Guards, just try and upgrade ur guys, vote every day to get ur free credits, have some guys that u can sacrifice to get ur stats higher. There r some good stuff in the MD shop like boosters etc that will help u out. Oh and don't forget to store heat n use it before battle Hope this helps

[Black Scyther]

Yes, i know. But the actual problem is, that my creatures can't get any experience. Every 2-3 fights there is a ritual wich gives my creature the decuple negative experience.

[phlegmtheorem]

Black Scyther, I just passed into the MP4 stage myself. Here are a few things that have helped me out:

- Watch for other "new" mp4s - look at existing creature experience, and VE. Focus on attacking those players.

- Be sure to set some weak defensive rituals so that when the strong players attack you, your main creatures are still alive.

- Make a ritual with your strongest creatures that need to be leveled up. Try to win as many fights in a row with them (they get an extra boost in VE every time they win).

- Sacrifice creatures to boost your stats and get VP to buy armor/weapons

- Make a few friends in the same stage of the game that you are in. Never underestimate the power of diplomacy.

- Don't worry about the guards for now. I can't beat them yet either. I'll get my creatures leveled up a little bit first...

- Store up heat and pull it out before you attack people. If you have trouble with getting heat built up, try sacrificing some creatures.

- Practice with different ritual settings. Some are much more powerful than others.

If you want more help, don't be afraid to msg me in game. I hang out in all the usual places.

[Metal Bunny]

uhu, try to focus on the even weaker players and try to get easy losses, a.k.a. setting up a weak def ritual. It helps a lot. You'll eventually get stronger and stronger and you'll notice that at some point, you will just need age... ugh age... I bought an elemental and it had enough wins and xp for max lvl, except it was just 10 days old, which means it needs more than 2 months to get to max lvl... age, age, my kingdome for more age

[SoulTear]

Yes, i know. But the actual problem is, that my creatures can't get any experience. Every 2-3 fights there is a ritual wich gives my creature the decuple negative experience.

Those are probably suicide defense rituals where they use a lot of protectors (water demons and/or animated trees found in Loreroot) to kill themselves off while you get healed. The amount of exp you gain from a fight depends on how much damage you take. If you take negative damage (ie heal yourself more then your hurt) then you lose exp. This is another stupid and annoying tactic players use to get loses for themslves while keeping their real monsters alive. The other posters advise you to do the same pretty much but if everyone were to do this then no one would be able to really fight anyone else and the game would be at a perpetual stalemate where everyone attacks and gets wins but hardly any xp for it. Yet another reason why the balance system is screwed up but I'm getting off track again.

The only countermeasure against this tactic is to make a ritual with all pure attackers (armour, grasen, knators archers of any kind) then you won't be healed and therefore lose exp when you hit one of these suicide defense rituals. Of course using this tactic you won't get any healers or life stealers upgraded becouse you won't be able to use them but oh well pure healers are now completly useless the way the game is and as for life stealers they are only good for one thing.

Life stealers are very good against powerful brute force type rituals with a lot of strong attackers like the Loreroot Gaurdians. So if you want to beat them try to get 1 or 2 maximium lvl elementals if you can do this you should be able to beat them easily if you include them in your ritual. Problem is elementals need lots of exp and wins for upgrades as well as time. You will need like 6 months to get them max starting from the elemental egg and that if you don't run into any problems. Adding to the difficulty is that elemntals will heal your creatures when stealing the enemies life so if you hit a suicide ritual you will lose exp. Anyway good luck beating the gaurds you will need it.

Also right after you beat them go forword until you get to a place called 'Defensive Quarters' go into the building there and buy the best equipment there you can you should have a lot of extra Vp after the fight espcially if you had a lot of heat before it. If you want more information just read my Military ways and beliefs paper (its the one with two crossed swords) in the game. My in game player name is Aqune and you can usually find my around Willow's Shop.

Oh and one thing I forgot to mention is that Xp is not a good way of determining how advanced a player is since you can only see their total creature Xp and not their complete historical Xp. So if they sacrificed any creatures you would see them as having less Xp then they actually would.

[Eldrad]

Soultear you get XP based on the amount of damage that is done to the enemy not to you. Healing yourself does not cause you to lose XP, the enemy healing themselves is what causes it.

As for ways to beat the gaurdians at low levels here are some spoilers. DON'T read them if you want to figure stuff out by yourself. There's also more than one solution (certainly at higher levels there are better options). If any of these spoilers deemed too much by a mod please delete them.

Hint 1:

The loreroot guards most damaging creatures use multi_random attacks.

Hint2:

The guards have lots of Vital Energy(VE).

Spoiler 1:

Multi_random Attacks will target 2-6 units... if there are fewer targets than they happen to target they'll pass they're turn. This means if you're only using 1 creature the multi_random attacks will never work.

Spoiler 2:

Having lots of VE makes them a great target for creatures with life steal.

Solution:

Use a single level 3 or higher elemental (Elemental II) with 100% of your VE. If you have a very low power stat it may not be enough to win... 19 is the max that could be used in this fight and you certainly don't need that much, but if you're still having trouble consider saccing some level 2 Barren Warriors for more power.

[Black Scyther]

Thank you SoulTear, you opened my eyes.

That damn lifesucking Elemental eats my exp *spanks the Elemental* :lol:

[SoulTear]

Soultear you get XP based on the amount of damage that is done to the enemy not to you. Healing yourself does not cause you to lose XP, the enemy healing themselves is what causes it.

No Eldrad your wrong. I refer you to:

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.p...tive+experience

where it clearly shows that when you heal yourself you lose Xp.

The amount of Xp you gain from a battle is determined by the difference between how much damage you do and how much damage you take. So if you you do 66% damage and heal youself -66% you gain 0 Xp and if you heal yourself more then that or do less damage you will lose Xp. Likewise if you take 66% damage and the enemy heals themselves -66% then they won't get any Xp but if they heal themselves more then they hurt you then they too will get negative Xp.

This incourages players to fight challenging battles rather then just pwning each other. Battles where both players take a lot of damage and the outcome of the fight is very close. Those kinds of fights are the best if you want to get lots of Xp and stats as well. Unfortunitly with everyone making defense suicide rituals they are very hard to get. So the attacker almost always wins to the defender and easily with little loses or even healing themselves. I wish things were like when this game first came out with people actally trying to defend themselves rather then using decoys on defense not to mention spam attacks.

As for the spoilers the stuff about life stealers and chaotic attackers is stated clearly in Manu's tutorial 'Understanding the Battle System' in the 'Choosing your ritual' section so you had no need to hide it.

[Eldrad]

The link you showed is a very good example. You can clearly see from that fight that:

Creature Experience reward for xxxxxx - Winning player

Hollow Warrior gaines 0 Xp and a won battle

Creature Experience reward for dst - Losing player

Heretic Archer gaines -125.4 Xp

Now clearly the Heretic Archer was doing damage and the Hollow Warrior was healing. However notice that only the Heretic Archer lost XP.

At the end of each fight in the summary you will see a line that looks something like:

"E lost: 3715vit; A lost: -1515vit;"

That is the amount of damage minus the amount of healing that player took. In this fight A's creatures will each gain 3715*balance_reward/number_of_surviving_creatures

As the loser E does not get a balance reward and the XP they get is cut in half so they would lose 1515/number_of_surviving_creatures/2.

The only time this gets particularly complicated or confusing is when someone's using the regeneration ability which is currently bugged. Regeneration counts as healing for reducing the XP reward, however it does not actually increase the target's health, which makes it possible to do 100% damage and lose XP (which should be impossible except for this bug).

I understand that you don't believe what I'm saying is correct but take a look at combat logs and you'll see it is what's going on. The thread you linked to is a nice example as there are a number of fights shown all of which work exactly as I described.

[Black Scyther]

I baned all lifesuckers andhealers off my rituals. It didn't help much. While im getting 50 - 200 exp for a won fight, my oponents will get 700 -1500 and more exp if they win. I tried ballanced fights, max health and max heat, too. Won't change much.

[Metal Bunny]

And battle logs do say you destroy 100% of the enemy? It could be that your creatures just barely win and therefore gain less xp.

[Black Scyther]

Now its getting real boring. Every day log in fight some fights or regenerate in a sanctury. I have still to double my experience to get to mp5.

[Metal Bunny]

Xp grows exponentially, don't worry you are past the half . Try to fight bigger fights to get some excitement into it . Once you're in mp5, I'll show you a 'good' time

[darknessado]

if you see MUR pls tell him i am looking for him

[Black Scyther]

There is hardly a ritual i cant beat. My creatures are very strong now. What do you mean by " fight bigger fights"? I fought only fight where i can get positive honor or very small penalty. I think that are the strongest oponents for me. Am i wrong?

[Metal Bunny]

Fight people who have more creature/total xp than you. They probably have more stats than you and give a harder and bigger fight. You could always go ahead and take advantage of young flesh... pervert

[AdlerGr]

There is hardly a ritual i cant beat. My creatures are very strong now. What do you mean by " fight bigger fights"? I fought only fight where i can get positive honor or very small penalty. I think that are the strongest oponents for me. Am i wrong?

well, that is one thing that confused me too. see, as the system runs now, this is supposed to be right but is all wrong. the system calculates the honor by the win-lost counter and not by the strength of an opponent, wich makes the system absolutelly useless for me... ( although I totally liked the idea at first...) I think that the w/l counter should play a role at the honor reward but not the absolute one... you should contain in it the creature or player vitality too.

[Lulu]

There is hardly a ritual i cant beat. My creatures are very strong now. What do you mean by " fight bigger fights"? I fought only fight where i can get positive honor or very small penalty. I think that are the strongest oponents for me. Am i wrong?

Well, if you're saying you believe the honor you get from a fight is based on how difficult the opponents are, no, you're not really right there. Honor is based on the difference between the wins and losses the opponents have.

[Metal Bunny]

well, that is one thing that confused me too. see, as the system runs now, this is supposed to be right but is all wrong. the system calculates the honor by the win-lost counter and not by the strength of an opponent, wich makes the system absolutelly useless for me... ( although I totally liked the idea at first...) I think that the w/l counter should play a role at the honor reward but not the absolute one... you should contain in it the creature or player vitality too.

If honor was based on strength instead of win/loss ratio, the strongest player would quit playing, most people would only attack weaker players, which would result in newbies being completely crushed, not defeated, but crushed, as in less than a bloody pulp. It would stop new players from advancing in the game and everything would come to a halt.

If you would factor in creature vitality and/or player vitality in it, it would result into the same thing. As both are indicators and instruments for a strong player.

[SoulTear]

If honor was based on strength instead of win/loss ratio, the strongest player would quit playing, most people would only attack weaker players, which would result in newbies being completely crushed, not defeated, but crushed, as in less than a bloody pulp. It would stop new players from advancing in the game and everything would come to a halt.

If you would factor in creature vitality and/or player vitality in it, it would result into the same thing. As both are indicators and instruments for a strong player.

Seems to me the opposite would happen if you got honor for attacking stronger players then yourself and lost it from attacking weaker ones. In fact thats how it pretty much used to be with honor before the 'balance' system was implemented and messed everything up.

[BigC]

the strongest player would quit playing

No i wouldn't quit playin bunny, i love this game too much

[Metal Bunny]

Hubris biggie, hubris.

And if you got honor from winning against the stronger player, wouldn't you end up with farming losses?

[tobajas]

I think the "stronger" player is bit strange in this game as i've attacker alot of players with lvl 3 creatures and won but i still get negativ honor all my creatures are lvl 2 or below since i've only played for 4 days now.

Right now im a bit annoyed at the system since i went on a killing spree yesterday against stronger and weaker players getting myself about 40 wins and 140k xp but afterwards i had -350 honor and now my stats are 72 wins and 40 losses after letting myself lose 20 times today. I still get -10 - -30 honor for winning a fight and mostly i get -4 honor for loseing meaning il soon hit -500 honor and be unable to challenge anyone.

I do not have the stronger creature's as everyone's are 1 or even 2 lvls above my own for the moment but i still manage to beat them sometimes by risking more vitality or haveing a better tactic. I suposse i could be refferd to as the "stronger" player but then a guy/girl with pure lvl 3 creatures or with some lvl 4's come's and opens a can of whoop ass o me and gets 40 honor while i lose 4, sometimes i even manage to beat them but then i still get -20 honor.

It's a bit annoying that i am seen as the stronger player just because of the fact that i have more wins then losses. I personaly think that the system should take into consideration how "strong" the creatures that the two players are useing are compared to each other. Well anyway il just go and get beaten around 30 more times and hope thats it.... ^^

Ps. I hate loseing so i dont wanna have 70 wins 70 losses just to be able to fight anyone.

[Muratus del Mur]

deciding if a player is strong or weak its much much more dificult than you can think of, there are too many factirs , like profile, creatures, time the player needed to upgrade his profile, the rituals he has, etc . Having this decided based on the total number of fights its like analizing the player results not his actual strength. maybe its not a good word that the player is stronger, but i dont know any other, and this one is enough for now.

[tobajas]

I know what you mean i was just throwing out my thoughts and ideas dident really consider all the work it would take. It's that im a little bit annoyed for the moment as i have -501 honor for the moment and im unable to attack anyone as no one has positive honor for me im guessing il have to lose about 30 fights to be able to get positive honor. But once i can get positive il have around -650 honor and after a few wins il have to lose a few more and so on and as it is right now it'll take weeks before i can attack anyone who gives negative honor....guess it was a miss of me to think i could just keep on winning. Ah well you always have to learn and adjust to a new games rules ^^