The first awarded "Title"

[Muratus del Mur]

As i said on the topic bout the new "Titles" (here) , i need a sample for a Title document to have as a start. I will not award the most obvious titles first, such as  "code guardian", and the others like that...those i keep for later when the papers are ready. Now i want one "normal" tag/role/title to be prepared.

 

The people that can suggest one title for someone, are, for now:

 

Princ Rhaegar
Azull

Peace

Nimrodel

Chewett

BFH

 

.. one of you, suggest a title you would like to award to someone, something that could be cosidered under your authority. 

Just name the player and the title, then if i agree to it, we will start discussing the actual text of the title document

 

 

cmon people, break the ice, dare :P

[Eagle Eye]

Congratulations and wish you a good luck

[Peace]

I guess I could make a start.

 

I think Intrigue could be granted the title of 'Vigilant Guardian'. Her activity is always around Bob/Tree, her roleplaying in connected to it. And she has been basically there for him for as long as I can remember. A friend, a guardian, a protector. Recently she presented a Tree related quest for her spell doc as well, a very fitting one.

[Muratus del Mur]

ok, here is the first issue i noticed. I will be the initial authority that creates these docs, but it can happen that i am not always fully aware of one or the other player and if they do deserve that title or not. For example in this case, i have no clue, so the only voice telling me it should be so is Peace. I suggest to add as part of the protocol something like "advisors". Basically this means asking arround if its so or not. An other security element could be to announce these titles first and give it a week time for anyone to dispute or deny the granting of a title.

 

1) asking around to get more confirmation that the suggested title is ok to be given, in case you alone don't know

2) give 1 week time for anyone to dispute the granting of a title

 

What do you say, sounds too complicated or time consuming? I think a forum section dedicated for this, and announcing all titles in the main announcements would be ok.

 

 

 

OK, now, prepare a sample text for intrigue's title, lets see what your suggestion is and if anyone can improve it. 

 

 

Thanks Peace

[Tipu]

Can i suggest the Text part ?

Plz...

[Nimrodel]

I wouldnt consider myself Authority, But I think Grido, Alyon, dst and Burns should be awarded titles too.

 

*Burns*: Drachorn Master - Ever since hearing the lessons of phrog, he worked his mind and soul to master the Flame.By reaching the peak of his strength he learned to handle the Drachorns in their Lair. (I think the current description is perfect)

 

*Grido*: LHO overlord: He has spent many days within the realm, searching for knowledge, truth and justice. Knowing what he now does, he seeks to impart this upon others. He is head LHO, and Lord over The Paper Cabin.

 

*MRAlyon*: Knight of the MRs: (? description?)

He even got the brotherhood an official flag! :P

 

dst: Kitty in the dark: Resident Fairy cat princess who specializes in exposing the truth behind the scenes by excelling in Crime Journalism (I suck at thinking up tags and descriptions :P)

[Chewett]

When suggesting titles, It would be good to see why you think you are their authority.

So far I dont see Peace as an authority on Bob or no mans land. Nim moreso with her GG nominations but again with dst, what is authority?

I dont see myself an authority on much really So I dont really think I shall nominate anyone.

Nims Tags:
Drach Overlord - Is this a permanent one? RJ came and went as drach master, Is this what you are thinking Mur as a permanent one?
LHO Overlord - Same as above. I agree with their prominence but feel perhaps a different title is needed. Also burns hasnt really been doing his job as long as grido, So why same tags?
Knight of the MR's - Yes this seems to fit more, MRalyon will always be a MR knight
kitty in the dark - Seems a silly title, I would nominate her for much more personally but dont feel its my authority.

---

I think it would help for you to give an example of a good title Mur, or say which of the above are good or not.

Also telling us what authority you think we are under would be helpful, You have named an odd collection of people.

[Nimrodel]

When suggesting titles, It would be good to see why you think you are their authority.

So far I dont see Peace as an authority on Bob or no mans land. Nim moreso with her GG nominations but again with dst, what is authority?

I dont see myself an authority on much really So I dont really think I shall nominate anyone.

Nims Tags:
Drach Overlord - Is this a permanent one? RJ came and went as drach master, Is this what you are thinking Mur as a permanent one?
LHO Overlord - Same as above. I agree with their prominence but feel perhaps a different title is needed. Also burns hasnt really been doing his job as long as grido, So why same tags?
Knight of the MR's - Yes this seems to fit more, MRalyon will always be a MR knight
kitty in the dark - Seems a silly title, I would nominate her for much more personally but dont feel its my authority.

---

I think it would help for you to give an example of a good title Mur, or say which of the above are good or not.

Also telling us what authority you think we are under would be helpful, You have named an odd collection of people.

I was not giving away titles or claiming authority. I think I clearly mentioned that. I was trying to make a point to incite a response, a bit of which you have explained.

 

 About dst's description, it was meant to be a joke. All i wanted to do was bring around attention that she deserves to be on that list. About Burns' title, I said it was Drachorn Master. Not overlord.

 

@ Mur:

 

I think giving authorities to certain bunch of people like this creates rifts. What do all the four people on my list have in common? They are my friends. I have seen them work more closely so i know they are deserving. What about... Lets say.. Intrigue. I barely know the kind of loyalty she has towards bob so it'll be a big no for me if someone asked me about awarding her with a title. Also, Let us assume if i dislike player X a lot and they are deserving. Lets also consider the fact that I am a partial person. Obviously I'd have some problem with awarding that person with a cert. And if the decision lies in my hands i might say no. Does that mean that the person is not deserving?

 

Again, my current role is related to quest management. Whom should I be able to nominate? Who should BFH be able to nominate? What category do we have under our jurisdiction?

 

Azull, Peace and Rhaegar fall in the same category according to me. Land Rulers. Why were Grido, Alyon and Mya not included in the authority list? If not royalty, they do hold the prime posts in their respective governments.

 

Ok. Let me talk about activity.  If activity was taken into consideration, why was Peace given authority at all when most of the last year she was fairly inactive and barely visible in the realm? If she deserves authority, I can name a bunch of people who also deserve to be on that list as well. Avatar managers can be given authority to reward artists  who have contributed quality avatars. SS can be given authority to recognise members of his order with a certificate. There are many other groups that can be taken into consideration. LHOS, Coders, Bug testers/finders, combat specialists, Quest Creators, x... y... z.

 

Why was I given the authority at all? The whole idea was to bring out that theory. MAYBE I deserve a title and certificate. But giving authority to someone not on the council or not having power over global MD population is kinda... odd. It really doesn't make it different than people being given the power to allot tags, just that the title is a more fancy tag.

 

It's not like I am against the idea. It sounds good and rewarding for effort. I'm pro it. But I think It'd be great if you could answer the whats and whys and lay down some ground rules and limitations before giving people any kind of authority or saying that x, y, z has the authority to do things. If you don't do that, it'd be similar to discrediting those who deserve to be on that list more than me, but arent.

[Chewett]

asdasd

About dst's description, it was meant to be a joke. All i wanted to do was bring around attention that she deserves to be on that list. About Burns' title, I said it was Drachorn Master. Not overlord.

Apologies for the misquote, I didnt copy it over I read, and clearly I cant read :)

 

I think giving authorities to certain bunch of people like this creates rifts. What do all the four people on my list have in common? They are my friends. I have seen them work more closely so i know they are deserving. What about... Lets say.. Intrigue. I barely know the kind of loyalty she has towards bob so it'll be a big no for me if someone asked me about awarding her with a title. Also, Let us assume if i dislike player X a lot and they are deserving. Lets also consider the fact that I am a partial person. Obviously I'd have some problem with awarding that person with a cert. And if the decision lies in my hands i might say no. Does that mean that the person is not deserving?

This enforces the point Nim makes below. [1]
 

Again, my current role is related to quest management. Whom should I be able to nominate? Who should BFH be able to nominate? What category do we have under our jurisdiction?

The reasoning for the people matters as it gives them specific authority. Although for some I doubt you will publicly post a reason. 
 

Azull, Peace and Rhaegar fall in the same category according to me. Land Rulers. Why were Grido, Alyon and Mya not included in the authority list? If not royalty, they do hold the prime posts in their respective governments.

selection seems rather random

Ok. Let me talk about activity.  If activity was taken into consideration, why was Peace given authority at all when most of the last year she was fairly inactive and barely visible in the realm? If she deserves authority, I can name a bunch of people who also deserve to be on that list as well.

Agreed here, Surely one must be active to be able to bestow these form of rewards?

Why was I given the authority at all? The whole idea was to bring out that theory. MAYBE I deserve a title and certificate. But giving authority to someone not on the council or not having power over global MD population is kinda... odd. It really doesn't make it different than people being given the power to allot tags, just that the title is a more fancy tag.

[1] Makes sense, enforcing above

It's not like I am against the idea. It sounds good and rewarding for effort. I'm pro it. But I think It'd be great if you could answer the whats and whys and lay down some ground rules and limitations before giving people any kind of authority or saying that x, y, z has the authority to do things. If you don't do that, it'd be similar to discrediting those who deserve to be on that list more than me, but arent.

Agreed here, im not against the idea but want to ensure that its done properly. And currently it seems like a randomly named group. Edited January 24, 2014 by Chewett

[No one]

You are funny.

 

Why should you give tags to only your own land ? Who should give ME a tag ? I think I deserve quite a few just like so many others.

 

So, why don't you organize yourself as a group (or "council" if you enjoy the term) and decide on whether one deserves the tag or not and not if it is under your authority or not.

 

Also, maybe you can consider creating categories for tags & rules & boundaries for choosing a person fit for a tile / what should one do to deserve a title.

 

Why don't you start with the current tags ?

[Muratus del Mur]

what i asked is to give titles to people ONLY that you can consider yourself directly above in a theoretical hierarchy. Stating random titles that you think fit generally in the land is a waste of my time..but no problem..we will do this slowly and take as much as it takes for all of you to understand. If needed, and if i see that its too difficult for some of you to understand what i mean, i will stay and babysit each of you publicly if needed.

 

Chew, take your highest acknowledged title, code guardian. this gives you the right to name titles related to similar abilities. This includes coding (and all related), understanding of land balance, and so on. Sadly you are not a king right now to name land related titles.

 

Nimrodel, focus on people that could be consider in the same area with your role, so, in this case, give a title relate to quest creators

 

BE CREATIVE. Your authority is not limited that much, IF you know how to relate it to other areas, it will reach other areas. 

For example Nim or Chew is more entitled to suggest a nomansland role than others.

 

Peace, focus on a title given to one of your citizens. Under special circumstances i will allow kings to give titles outside their land, if other kings agree to it (not sure at this point if the agreement needs to be written or just mentioned)

 

 

I will not discuss about the people that i named and didn't replied. We need just one or two examples, and slowly will add more and more. This will create good examples for others to follow and understand how and in what situations to give a title, and what sort of title. 

 

 

What you do now is a lesson/tutorial for both you the other many people that will receive the ability to sign such title documents.

 

At thi point i am more convinced that each title should be discussed public before signed, that will slwo things down a bit , but we do not need "speed" in this process, we need to keep md spirit and give it a much stronger backbone.

[Chewett]

Can people have multiple titles?

I would give dst/no one some form of bug related tags, But also feel they deserve other titles for their work.

Their continual work has been invaluable to me over the past years.

[Muratus del Mur]

yes, i said this repeatedly, and exactly to you countless times when speaking about multiple tags, but anyone can ask as many times as they want and i will reply as many times as needed.

 

people can have multiple titles

a title is a form of permanent role acknowledgement , comparable to a sort of qualification if you would like, or a skill, or a permanent "title"..very similar to a medal., alsmost the same thing to current tags, just that a title can be kept forever while a current title could be replaced with a new one.

 

Titles you keep forever. In time, others will end up having similar or identical title and rights, at that point, the most active person will have more power. In case of king roles, we need to discuss it in more detail on how it should sound, in such way that the text of the title will be similar to the kings crown medal (even after you are no longer king you keep the crown medal, and you keep the title, but not the abilities)

 

Titles are aimed to be collectible , you could get as many as you can, the more the better.

[Peace]

First of all, I would like to apologise for my lack of activity. It is true that the previous year I wasn't very active due to RL issues and the fact that I spend most of 2013 dead. But just because you didn't see me in game, that does not mean that I wasn't there. I chose to sit inside Necrovion, I was consulting with Azull whenever it was possible for me and interact with my citizens as often as I could. I appreciate the fact of including me to this Mur and I feel honored, and I am sorry for those who think I shouldn't be part of it.

 

Back on topic now.

My apologies for choosing Intrigue, since there was the matter of those without a land leader and I saw someone that in my opinion deserves a title I decided to step forward. I will say that I chose her because I didn't want to first grant a title to people who already have one or more but choose someone who doesn't have much already. If you are still sceptic about it go meet her yourself, interact and then judge. I understand that Mur does not have the time to go around and check these people himself, which is why the responsibility falls in our hands. We are his eyes and ears for that. 

 

To those of us given the authority to grant titles, I feel that it would be discriminating if we give titles based on our friendships and hates. Sure I interact mostly with Necrovion people but that does not mean that I do not watch the rest of the people in this game. Everybody should have their chance to get a title and if they work hard on it and make it real, I see no reason why we shouldn't give said title just because 'we do not like them'.

[Nimrodel]

First of all, I would like to apologise for my lack of activity. It is true that the previous year I wasn't very active due to RL issues and the fact that I spend most of 2013 dead. But just because you didn't see me in game, that does not mean that I wasn't there. I chose to sit inside Necrovion, I was consulting with Azull whenever it was possible for me and interact with my citizens as often as I could. I appreciate the fact of including me to this Mur and I feel honored, and I am sorry for those who think I shouldn't be part of it.

Sure. If you say so.

My apologies for choosing Intrigue, since there was the matter of those without a land leader and I saw someone that in my opinion deserves a title I decided to step forward. I will say that I chose her because I didn't want to first grant a title to people who already have one or more but choose someone who doesn't have much already. If you are still sceptic about it go meet her yourself, interact and then judge. I understand that Mur does not have the time to go around and check these people himself, which is why the responsibility falls in our hands. We are his eyes and ears for that.

To those of us given the authority to grant titles, I feel that it would be discriminating if we give titles based on our friendships and hates. Sure I interact mostly with Necrovion people but that does not mean that I do not watch the rest of the people in this game. Everybody should have their chance to get a title and if they work hard on it and make it real, I see no reason why we shouldn't give said title just because 'we do not like them'.

Intrigue was an example. No ones attacking her or testing her motives or her dedication.

Nominating my 'friends' was an example too. Which I justified with reasons. Denying titles based on how much I like a person was an example too. Surely one would not reveal that they are denying someone a title because they don't like them? If they did, hell i'd respect their honesty and hold them in high regard.

[Ivorak]

I am compiling an initial list for Mur of those who should be able to grant titles. To that end, it would be helpful if this topic was further considered and commented on.

 

I will be send Mur my list soon, he may strike from or add to the list some names, and then it will be presented for public comment. It includes mainly land leaders and some other key figures (Chewett, Grido, etcetera).  What I feel I'm lacking most at this time are players who have important and well defined roles that are independent from the four main lands (those who are citizens of the main lands will be awarded titles through their sovereign).

[Chewett]

dst because she is my friend so I need to confirm to everyone that I am entirely biased and recommend her.

 

Oh yeah, and she has done more for MD than the majority of people, She has done some really bad things  that I hate and for those reasons I would ban her, but without her I would not be around and she has helped me on so many code projects that MD would be years behind.

[dst]

Thank you Chewett.

 

But I cannot grant titles. My area is too specialized and if you reach it you either go to jail (98% of players) or become a coder for MD :P

[Muratus del Mur]

i said this and will keep saying it over and over again...but each time i will try to say it from a different perspective and with different words...

 

friendships and personal likes are good, md social structure is not and should not be "objective". Thats why there are leaders of all sorts, so that they can decide based on their own judgement who else they like in their company. In this way, even if the individual "cells" are based on favors and subjective opinions, the overall structure is balanced and reflects how people are.

 

Ability to impose your "favors" and personal likes as official, is a right that is gained over the time through a lot of effort and dedication. The higher you get in this YET invisible hierarchy, the less strict the rules are, culminating with me that i can be as subjective as i wish with anyone i wish...but with such power comes also a gained wisdom that prevents me, or anyone that gains power in md, to abuse this power.

 

That said, a way of balancing title granting is about to be announced, if Ivy didn't do that already.

 

In short, all titles will be public BEFORE they will be granted, to give time to anyone to make a huge scandal and complain in case something is unfair, abuse, disproportionate, etc.

 

(In particular, both chew and dst will receive titles, and also -limited- title granting ability, along with a lot more people than i initially thought. Details will be announced shortly)

 

I will repeat the rules on how these titles should be issued with any occasion (announements, posts, facebook, chat, emails), perfecting the concept slowly, and summarizing this from long posts to more concise and clear guidelines.

 

Granting titles by "highly specialized" characters will be possible! of course, as long as they are granting titles within that characters scope and below its own authority. Afterall, why not?? :)

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

I agree that Intrigue should get that title, for what its worth.

 

Id like to also make a comment on the retroactive titles that have been discussed - and obviously this will appear biased given who and what I am, but that is unavoidable.

 

I feel that any character that has secured their identity in to an ongoing living memory should remain recognised if and where it is possible to do so. For example, Khalazdad or Awiiya are a living memory that is persistently fueled by the existing active players, and therefore these characters are never truly gone. As a side note...ironically Khal probably has more passive influence over things than most of the active players do right now.

 

I suppose it doesn't matter so much, and it creates more work, but in the end, if this titles thing is what it is being sold as then I don't see the reasoning behind requiring a poke in the eye to recognise something you already know.

 

Z

[Muratus del Mur]

i will be more than happy to send titles for important characters over the past years, the problem is that if they are no longer arround i can't contact them and i can't count on them being actually interested in anything md related anymore. the minimum i want from them in return of the title is that they just claim it. By claiming it they also help us remember what it was , who granted it, etc... If i award aaallll tags in existance with a title doc, then hundreds of docs will just reach garbage or return. I want these docs to reach only people that actually want them.