Ann 3177

[Rophs]

Ann. 3177 - [2014-11-13 02:51:12 - Stage 12] - Permalink - Posted By Chewett 
Stage 12 has been the longest in history in terms of announcements at 593 (counting this one), I propose it is time to move onto a new stage.

Pick some of the announcements saying why you think its time to move on, or state why you think we must continue in Stage 12 and what you think will need to be completed before we move on. (make a forum topic please)

 

[Rophs]

Some announcements that might be useful:

[b][log First ann of stage 11][/b]

Ann. 1993 - [2011-08-22 01:48:10 - Stage 11] - Permalink - Posted By Muratus del Mur 

Drinks! - pub shared items

All sorts of drinks at TPBOBTITTAIAAP (Tribunal Pub) all drinks there are alcoholic drinks with similar effect but different amounts and use intervals. Once you grab one it will return to you once consumed so you can pass it around and give free drinks to anyone. Sadly, MD chemists were able to bottle just alcoholic drinks, other effects are not yet stable enough to be kept in a bottle but they are working on it. ..careful with the Grasan Ferment, i haven't approved that ..but you know..smugling..

[/log]

[b][log Last ann of stage 10][/b]

Ann. 1992 - [2011-08-20 23:42:12 - Stage 10] - Permalink - Posted By Muratus del Mur 

MagicDuel Advances to Stage 11

After a very long and extremely busy/productive Stage 10, we are finally here, stepping over its border and into Stage 11. The things done in stage 10 are so many that i can't make a summary about them here (i will on the forum!). MD's unique concepts expanded and features were added that now make MD unimaginable without them. There are things done in stage 10 that will continue to significantly change the gameplay from now on, as they just started to get implemented. Stage 11 will start with a wave of freshness, a feature that took so long to develop but its one of the major improvements that combines functionality with concepts. Research, something very abstract and hard to understand by most, will be fully integrated into the gameplay, together with spelldocs and other things long gone but not forgotten... "Research and Connections" (codename clues) will be released this week. (p.s. no its not innermagic, not fully, its the research part)

 

 

[/log]

 

Stage 11 to 12 seems a bit muddled

[Ary Endleg]

I personally don't think that Stage 12 is over yet. A lot was done indeed, but many of those 600 announcements are automated ones(since stage is already ongoing for year and half) and many things are happening annually like slave auction, md birthday and such which is standard.

 

There have been many bugfixes, changes, minor tweeks and such and tons of social stuff. When we are talking about (new) major things which should be the ones that describe the stage I can't really think of any that was fully implemented or successful. For instance we got Public Council which got disbanded. We got volition which isn't fully implemented (you can gain it but you can't use it for anything), we could name few more examples.

 

If you can consider Title docs finished, then yes, I think that's the biggest and most important thing that changed.

 

I don't that we can conclude Stage 12 until something major is done, such as A25.

[DARK DEMON]

I agree with Ary, this stage doesn't feel complete yet.

 

Reasoning is mostly the same... that apart from many incomplete things (top of my head: creature totems from stage 11 and what Ary said, volition), there's also been no huge change that got people to do/try/experiment new things (like I remember introduction of citizenship in stage 11).

 

 

 

edit: clarified stuff 

Edited November 13, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Kyphis the Bard]

Yeah, it doesn't feel complete to me yet. While I would love to see A2050 done in stage 12 (and its completion would DEFINITELY end a game stage), I think what we need to see is Title Docs finished - likely, the second issue of title docs would signal the end of stage 12, to me.

A lot has happened, and a lot has been achieved, but right now everything feels like it has been opened, not closed. It's like there is a hand on the door, and we are waiting with baited breath for the door to click shut, but that hasn't happened yet.

[Kamisha]

I think that alot of the bugs brought about in stage 12 should be fixed. There has also been alot of talk about rebuilding how the combat system works and rituals. I think stage 12 should end with some polishing then stage 13 we can move to a big rebuild.

[Muratus del Mur]

while a25 is just warming up, i can't consider stage 12 ripe yet...but i admire the initiative...so.. consider this just an opinion, if more will think its time to declare next stage, I won't be against.

[Eagle Eye]

Lets finish the finding works before to move forward to the next stage  for the rest and better system.

[Chewett]

I personally don't think that Stage 12 is over yet. A lot was done indeed, but many of those 600 announcements are automated ones(since stage is already ongoing for year and half) and many things are happening annually like slave auction, md birthday and such which is standard.

If you look at:

Stage 12 - 548 Days
Stage 11 - 634 Days
Stage 10 - 484 Days

Then actually we have been more productive in Stage 12.

I don't that we can conclude Stage 12 until something major is done, such as A25.

So your vote is for A25 to finish before Stage 13? We could be here a while lol.
 
 

I agree with Ary, this stage doesn't feel complete yet.
 
Reasoning is mostly the same... that apart from many incomplete things (top of my head: creature totems from stage 11 and what Ary said, volition), there's also been no huge change that got people to do/try/experiment new things (like I remember introduction of citizenship in stage 11).

Links to announcements please rather than vague "I think this was done during stage 12" 
 

Yeah, it doesn't feel complete to me yet. While I would love to see A2050 done in stage 12 (and its completion would DEFINITELY end a game stage), I think what we need to see is Title Docs finished - likely, the second issue of title docs would signal the end of stage 12, to me.

A lot has happened, and a lot has been achieved, but right now everything feels like it has been opened, not closed. It's like there is a hand on the door, and we are waiting with baited breath for the door to click shut, but that hasn't happened yet.

You would say title docs would need to be done before stage 12 ends? As in them being sent or?
 
 

I think that alot of the bugs brought about in stage 12 should be fixed. There has also been alot of talk about rebuilding how the combat system works and rituals. I think stage 12 should end with some polishing then stage 13 we can move to a big rebuild.

Such as?
 
 

Lets finish the finding works before to move forward to the next stage  for the rest and better system.

Again, Such as?

----

Im looking at specific things we can work on, rather than general "Things should be pretty".

[Jubaris]

If number of announcements is what counts, then just make an automated system "incremenet stage upon 600 announcements"...

 

I'm not sure what is going on, Chewy you made an announcement how you think we should move on to the next stage, asking of others to provide reasoning, all the ones that voiced an opinion so far are against moving on to the next stage, then you ask why not? :))

 

For me personally, it doesn't matter if it takes too long for something to happen, the fact that a stage lasts too long should just be a reason more for us to work on MD.

 

 

Something that marked stage 12? Using HTML for creature pages, very cool, faster to load, but still not a complete feature. If it gets completed, made usable in the ritual interface as well (which is very slow for me and I guess for others as well), it would be something to boost of.

 

Most of the other cool stuff, such as the AL were just briefly present, and it can't be said they marked this stage.

[Chewett]

I'm not sure what is going on, Chewy you made an announcement how you think we should move on to the next stage, asking of others to provide reasoning, all the ones that voiced an opinion so far are against moving on to the next stage, then you ask why not? :))

The answer of "No because reasons" doesnt really help because it doesnt let us know what specifically people think we should work on. Im looking for things people think should be worked on.

If you dont want to have any input into the dev process of MD, I can ofc just do whatever I want coding wise. But I personally like to talk people what they are interested in being fixed. So Im asking here.

For me personally, it doesn't matter if it takes too long for something to happen, the fact that a stage lasts too long should just be a reason more for us to work on MD.

Something that marked stage 12? Using HTML for creature pages, very cool, faster to load, but still not a complete feature. If it gets completed, made usable in the ritual interface as well (which is very slow for me and I guess for others as well), it would be something to boost of.
 
Most of the other cool stuff, such as the AL were just briefly present, and it can't be said they marked this stage.

So for you, im asking specific things that you think needs to be worked on. So you feel that the HTML stuff could be added to a couple more pages and be made much cooler?

[DARK DEMON]

Links to announcements please rather than vague "I think this was done during stage 12"

 

I think all major stuff from current stage and previous stages should be completed first, eg:

 

1) Use for this http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/2804

2) Fixing this http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/2572

3) Fixing this http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/2883

4) Perhaps a new position for this http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/3004

5) Something exciting should be done about this (perhaps a public experiment/test)  http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/2610

Edited November 13, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Jubaris]

You didn't call a meeting on asking people on what should you work on you, you ask them to provide arguments to your wish to move to the next stage.

The fact is that there is plenty enough of material on what do people want fixed/coded, on the forum and I'm sure in personal messages as well.

 

You play the game yourself too (highest number of activity days btw), so you're also aware of a number of shortcomings.

 

What's exactly worrying you?

 

In regards to HTML, it's not about it being more cool, it's exactly what I already said there, the creatures page is not completed (just click on it and see the description, you had it written), and it can be used for choosing-creatures-for-a-ritual interface as well.

I think that was your idea anyway, sad you didn't see it through.

It is not something I say it should be our main focus, it's just a small feature, but that's one of the rare things that marked this stage. Uncompleted/abandoned like most of other things.

 

I think we can get a huge stimulation for MD with just a couple of tweeks rather than new features, it's probably not easy but it doesn't require experimenting and huge creativity, etc. It might go slow, probably will because of lack of time, but let's start.

Fixing buggy stuff, modifying the combat abilities of creatures and such, things like that.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[Chewett]

I think all major stuff from current stage and previous stages should be completed first, eg:
 
1) Use for this http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/2804
2) Fixing this http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/2572
3) Fixing this http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/2883
4) Perhaps a new position for this http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/3004
5) Something exciting should be done about this (perhaps a public experiment/test)  http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/2610

1) could be done, I have some plans Murry and I concocted with that.
2) could be done, I have some plans Murry and I concocted with that.
3) Yeah no one sent me the stuff I need, that should be able to be done soon
4) No one wants that position
5) Thats not going to happen yet.

You didn't call a meeting on asking people on what should you work on you, you ask them to provide arguments to your wish to move to the next stage.
The fact is that there is plenty enough of material on what do people want fixed/coded, on the forum and I'm sure in personal messages as well.

I ask people because I want a current view, if you take exception to that dont post. :)

You play the game yourself too (highest number of activity days btw), so you're also aware of a number of shortcomings.
 
What's exactly worrying you?

You seem to have a problem with the concept of me asking other people for their opinions. You dont have to give yours...

Mur doesnt do this, perhaps people find it strange that I value other peoples opinions and want to work on what would be most interesting for the most amount of people.

In regards to HTML, it's not about it being more cool, it's exactly what I already said there, the creatures page is not completed (just click on it and see the description, you had it written), and it can be used for choosing-creatures-for-a-ritual interface as well.
I think that was your idea anyway, sad you didn't see it through.
It is not something I say it should be our main focus, it's just a small feature, but that's one of the rare things that marked this stage. Uncompleted/abandoned like most of other things.
 
I think we can get a huge stimulation for MD with just a couple of tweeks rather than new features, it's probably not easy but it doesn't require experimenting and huge creativity, etc. It might go slow, probably will because of lack of time, but let's start.
Fixing buggy stuff, modifying the combat abilities of creatures and such, things like that.

The only thing is lacks is the healing, which as I said above, no one provided me with the nesscary data I needed to fix that up. It needs some sylistic tweaks but once that is done it should be ready.

Moving it over to the ritual creation page might take longer as there is drag and drop funkyiness there.

[Jubaris]

I don't know why would you say such a thing.

I am happy to see community discussions and development of its ideas. I am pointing out the ambiguousness of some of what you said.

 

The problems people address and you respond in post #9 asking for more info are already known, number of features require a closure.

 

In that post you ask for concrete details, but that puzzles me - You periodically ask for feedback, opinions and such, which is good, and that makes you aware of many things people issued as a problem, but many times it seems to me you just let people provide info that you will lock up in some pile never to be seen again, because same questions periodically appear with you saying they weren't addressed before, or that you misplaced them.

Do you honestly think we should move to the next stage, or the announcement was just meant to provoke a discussion? 

If the latter, why provoking rather than asking straight-forwardly "we are at crossroads, what do you want us to fix" etc.?

 

I know you and other admin figures have problems with schedule, and can't focus on MD, that you are here volunteraly, that you guys have RL stuff, etc.

I respect that, it isn't a problem for me, and I'm sure it's the same opinion about it with all the other players. Nobody has demands that you work harder.

That shouldn't prevent you from just keeping things straight and clear for everyone, where are we going, why certain things aren't finished and what can WE do to help about it.

 

Working too many things at once creates chaos here, I suggest focusing features one by one.

Tell us what are you up on working for, focus on that, and tell the whole community what data you require, where can we help.

 

We lack clarity majorly.

 

We can start with the combat system, since a lot potential is there and it is a big part of MD's gameplay.

Just a suggestion.

For instance, if the combat system gains an official focus, cool thread such as Ary's combat talk would gain an initiative, and all the problems and cool ideas would be processed straight away, it would mean something. Whenever a problem is spotted and it gets addressed, if we can't find a final solution, we find a temporary default solution that will do the job (like the windys becoming eligible for drach premium boosts, a temporary solution) rather than keep things pointless or buggy.

At some point, we covered a big part of the system, and we can move on and not trip every month or so on the same stuff because of the chaotic multitasking.

 

 

 

 

In regards to the html5 - what data do you require for healing, can the community help with that, or is it something in inner admin relations?

Regarding the ritual html5 - why does it have to be dragged, make it click based? Any practical improvisation is good, so the people with lots of creatures can use it fast, and that's currently the majority of MD.

If you're willing for us to take care of it, let's discuss, if not, tell me to abandon it for now and I will, just don't use tricks to change the subject and make it hidden under the rug.

With that approach, because it's clear and straight-forward, I would be very happy about MD's progress, even if we aren't doing anything :)) We would know what are we about, and where can our help be actually used.

[Chewett]

I don't know why would you say such a thing.
I am happy to see community discussions and development of its ideas. I am pointing out the ambiguousness of some of what you said.

Thats cool, So as I said, focus on things you think need to be improved before Stage 13, specifically, rather than general "fix things"

In regards to the html5 - what data do you require for healing, can the community help with that, or is it something in inner admin relations?

Let me explain something, I think you misunderstood

no one (the player) has provided me the information I needed to add in healing, Now I can do it. I think you thought I was waiting for someone to provide me the data? Previously it was on the back burner as Murry wasnt replying to emails about it)

[Kamisha]

Its just if there is one thing that breaks a game for new users it is bugs, spelling mistakes and occasionally (though I still see allot of Spanish speakers in English servers) language barriers. MD currently matches two of those criteria. The bugs I speak of has a pretty comprehensive list in the bugs thread so I wont list them all here and also spelling in some locations (though it has improved over the years) is not all that great. I'm not going to bother trying to help on this aspect because although I edit some of my friends writing I am more than guilty of using Google as a potential dictionary or plug the entire document into a reading program to find problems.

 

The biggest lesson that I have learned so far has been from a small little known game called "Prison Architect" where they devote one month every few months of building features to looking through there bug data base fixing as many bugs as possible. To be fair they have a team of five developers and this is there day job but it makes a game in constant development manageable and the bug database doesn't just become a huge mess and the game is actually rather polished.

 

My final thought is this. When A25 is launched move forward a step and devote a stage to fixes. Then the next major feature you implement could be stage 15. A stage or new release should mark a step forward. Moving forward without a huge or major change to mark it sends the message that you are done with something and it wont be worked on any more.

[Chewett]

Actually im currently compiling a list of bugs and classifying anything that is user visible bugwise as high priority, Its already got 40 items on it and I am currently using this as something which can help me direct use. Still waiting on dst to test it out a bit more (which she has probably forgotten) until I officially release it.

[dst]

Actually im currently compiling a list of bugs and classifying anything that is user visible bugwise as high priority, Its already got 40 items on it and I am currently using this as something which can help me direct use. Still waiting on dst to test it out a bit more (which she has probably forgotten) until I officially release it.

No, I haven't forgotten. I didn't have too much time for it at work.

[Azthor]

My opinion, which, I dare say, might be shared by some others, is that, being in a unique position to consider further developments from a coding perspective, you do whatever you feel would be best in the long run (...) mainly considering the opinion of those few others in a similar position.

 

I would like to be of help here, but "whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent" (...) I am honestly at loss as to what I might suggest that might be of use, as I lack the perspective of the no doubt many conditions attached, and likewise lack the background knowledge to understand such easily.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Azthor

[Kyphis the Bard]

You would say title docs would need to be done before stage 12 ends? As in them being sent or?

I think that it is one of the big milestone things that should be done before we advance the stage, yes. Not to say that it is the only thing that would indicate that for me, or that its not being done would indicate it should not be done to me - there are a variety of other projects that would have the same milestone feel to me, for example A2050, or full implementation and automation of Night. Any of these would make it feel like a huge point in MD's history had been reached, to me.

Regarding the title docs specifically, I'm not just refering to them being sent, but to them being fully integrated - that is, people have a proper grasp on how/why to award titles, who can awarded them, and who can authorize them. As some of this is context dependent its not going to be as quick as "ttiles sent" or "titles arrived". Essentially, when Mur/Council are at the point where they feel confident that the community at large understands how to handle and react to the title docs responsibly.

This is likely to be at least two months after the first batch of title docs actually arrives, as that is when I anticipate the first few new titles to have been hashed out and sent since the first batch.

 

I'm not sure what is going on, Chewy you made an announcement how you think we should move on to the next stage, asking of others to provide reasoning, all the ones that voiced an opinion so far are against moving on to the next stage, then you ask why not? :))

He understands that people don't think the stage should end yet, and has no problem with that - but the announcement asks for people to explain why they don't think it should end yet, so he can get a better idea of what needs to be done, from the communities perspective, before the game advances. Most of the posts upto that point just said nay with no reasons.

What Dark Demon posted afterwards was pretty much exactly what I think Chewett wanted.