Night Mode - Online Player list

[Aeoshattr]

http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/2611

 

The announcement (and my understanding so far) suggests that a player in Night Mode should not only be invisible to those in "day" mode (I.E. not appear in the player list) however, the player should also not see anyone in the player list at all.

From my experience so far, while I am in Night Mode, I can clearly see who is online at each location, and I am unsure if this is intended or a bug.

 

Also, as the announcement suggests, there should be no traces. However, a player in Night Mode still leaves traces, but no trace is visible in the location the player still is in (I.E. if I move from GoE to Plains of Tranquility, I will leave a trace at GoE but be invisible at Plains of Tranquility.) Again, not sure if this is intended or a bug.

 

Also, Sunny Weather is known to reveal players in Night Mode (http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/2614) however players in NM should remain unable to see players in "day" mode in the same scene. I currently can't test this, since players in NM can view the player list anyway.

However, to me it doesn't make sense for Sunny weather to reveal players in NM that are in locations with "no visibility" (such as most locations in the underground, etc). As far as I know, those labels are meant to deal with Rain (so you can't collect rainwater while indoors, for instance) but to me it makes sense for this to apply to NM too.

 

 

To keep in mind (mostly a note for myself, but hearing others' thoughts on this or putting this out preventively might help too).

• NM gives "combat" bonuses. Initiative + attack, thus being able to actively attack players is crucial. If player list is invisible, the only way to attack other players is if they speak - must test if players targetted from the chat, not player list are attackable or not (as in not get some funky message like "player not in this scene?")
• If NM "blindness" proves to be incompatible with NM combat, which one stays, or how are they made compatible?

 

TL;DR - NM does not function entirely as mentioned in announcements so far. You could say my main question is: Is NM meant to work as in the announcements, or have changes been made along the way? The way I see it, it works fine now, combat being compatible with invisibility, and while I like it, I don't feel that keeping this potential bug hidden is fair or follows rules.

[Aeoshattr]

Also... since I forgot mentioning.

 

Some clickables and the Obelisks are "on top" of the night mode layer (they're not shaded/greyed), but the arrows are greyed out, making them very difficult to see sometimes.

[Chewett]

How is this going along Aeo? May I have an update on this bug?

[Aeoshattr]

I would say "relatively new" clickables appear on top of the Nightmode layer (Obelisks, boxes + stones @ meeting of the roads, scarecrow, etc), whereas old clickable items (arrows, recruitment clickies, etc) appear underneath the Nightmode layer (i.e. properly shaded).

 

I will take the liberty to say that the other things I mentioned (about the online player list) are functioning as I stated in my main post, however I will believe that it is the way they are meant to function (since it all connects and makes sense this way, rather than the way it was portrayed in the announcements).

 

Therefore the only issues that remain are:

 

• new clickies not appearing shaded. I would personally like a shaded version of each clickie, so they still "stand out" a bit, rather than being grayed out like the rest of the scene, but I imagine this will take a lot of work and it is not my place to say "do this, do that". But I would personally really like it :)
• Sunny weather affecting players in locations with "no sky visibility" which I don't think makes sense. (i.e. it still reveals players in nightmode even if no light is shone on them.)

[Chewett]

new clickies not appearing shaded. I would personally like a shaded version of each clickie, so they still "stand out" a bit, rather than being grayed out like the rest of the scene, but I imagine this will take a lot of work and it is not my place to say "do this, do that". But I would personally really like it :)

Thats not feasible to change (RE: all clickables having a greyed version) since it would require changing every single flash scene and all A25 objects (too many) but the issue with the newer clickables is that A25 ones are above the greyed filter, I will see what we can do with this.

Sunny weather affecting players in locations with "no sky visibility" which I don't think makes sense. (i.e. it still reveals players in nightmode even if no light is shone on them.)

Which this makes sense, I dont suppose you talked with Mur on this beforehand?

[Aeoshattr]

Which this makes sense, I dont suppose you talked with Mur on this beforehand?

 

I have, and he just stated that initially, those tags were designed to deal with weather (so that it wouldn't rain indoors), but gave no further input on whether he thinks Sunny weather should or shouldn't reveal players in locations where the sky isn't visible. (or he might have, but I genuinely don't remember and I don't want to put words in his mouth).

 

To me, it makes sense that Sunny weather shouldn't affect locations with "no light" or "no visibility" tags (I forgot the exact name). There are very specific locations with "light might come through" or something like that, and those could be indeed affected by sunny weather, but not those with "no light". 

 

I could ask Mur again, if you think it is wiser?

[Chewett]

 

To me, it makes sense that Sunny weather shouldn't affect locations with "no light" or "no visibility" tags (I forgot the exact name). There are very specific locations with "light might come through" or something like that, and those could be indeed affected by sunny weather, but not those with "no light". 

 

I could ask Mur again, if you think it is wiser?

 

Night mode is a little more than just "hiding in the dark" is more of a state of mind, a slight phasing out of peoples perceptions and the MD reality. Knowing that all the darkness is actually the same but that there is another type of darkness, when on one sees you, are you not in darkness also? even while you may be perfectly visible at that time you are not.

 

The trick of staying in the darkness, and therefore not being observed, or vice versa is one that might not be affected by the presence of light, but the knowledge of it. Sometimes what stops us most is our own knowledge.

 

A discussion about this might be interesting for you.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Chewett

[Aeoshattr]

I'm happy to have a discussion about it, I may not be seeing things correctly after all. So people are welcome to share their ideas.

 

Nightmode indeed isn't just "hiding" - not at all. My lack of understanding refers more to "How can dark locations be affected by sunlight if the sunlight doesn't reach them"?

I guess that would have to be the question to guide the discussion.

 

The first thing off the top of my head would be that since all darkness is the same, revealing or "erasing" bits of darkness through Sunny weather (imagine there is a dark corner in a room with windows that is illuminated by sunlight and thus revealed/erased) will affect Darkness as a whole - therefore all connected to the darkness at that specific moment in time are intrinsically affected by Sunlight simply because Darkness was affected at some other location and this "ripples" across to all dark locations. Hopefully that sentence is intelligible.

 

But again, that was literally the first argument that came to mind. I welcome a discussion on the subject.

[Fang Archbane]

Huh... heres my two cents as the Sanctified Shadowcaster.

If Chewys correct in stating Night Mode is a State of Mind (And I dont doubt him), then the Same would be required to Break it.

That bieng said, just the concept of "Light is around, I should be able to See More" would indeed be enough to Disturb the Flow of Darkness.

But I dont know if making the Situation that Static is a good thing. Allow me to Elaborate.

When youre One with the Darkness (Lore Wise), multiple levels in Strength of Darkness, Understanding of Darkness, and Affinity to Darkness exist.

Im seriously debating suggesting the Darkness principle tie into Night Mode on one level or another (Excuse me if this is already the case, I am not taught on NM mechanics).

Seeing as its an unchanging Factor, completely down to Past Fates standing, and heavily related to the Night, I feel it would be an interesting Direction to take NM.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Fang Archbane