Another Maze Awakens

[DARK DEMON]

Important: No spells allowed for the duration of the quest (aka till 18:00 ST Sunday). If you see someone casting a spell, or have one casted on you, please do report.

 

It is time!

 

Don't miss the grand opening of the second Labyrinth at 21:00 ST today. And to make it even more special, we have a QUEST!

 

 

Now, gaining access to the second Labyrinth is a mini-quest on its own, but there is more to it than that.

 

What to do: PM me in-game or forum, any SEVEN points of comparison which you observe between the two Labyrinths (similarities, differences, anything) and give possible explanations for as many as you can. You can only submit your entries once only.

 

The winner will be decided on the basis of a points system. Each similarity/difference gets you one point for mentioning it, along with 1-5 points for the explanation depending on how logical it is and how much it makes sense. All entries will be posted publicly after the quest is over.

 

But that is not it: there is a bonus! The first 5 to submit get 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 extra points respectively! (first to submit gets 5  bonus points, second gets 4 bonus points,  and so forth).

 

The top 3 with the highest points win!

 

Rewards are as follows

 

First place: Wishpoint / GG drachorn

Second place: Wishpoint / GG drachorn (whichever is left)

Third place: 5 gold

 

All rewards will be distributed on Sunday during the closing ceremony at 19:00 ST!

 

Hope you all have fun and enjoy the hard work we all have put into this!

 

Happy 10th MD Birthday :)

 

 

Edit: quest starts at 21:00 ST, no submissions before that please :P

Edited April 17, 2015 by DARK DEMON

[DARK DEMON]

The following people are unfortunately not eligible to participate:

 

1) Chewett

2) Mur

3) Ailith

4) lashtal

5) Kyphis

6) Lone Wolf

Edited April 17, 2015 by DARK DEMON

[dst]

So to get access to the second labyrinth we need to first finish the quest to access it?

Or are the 2 things separate?

Edited April 17, 2015 by dst

[DARK DEMON]

Yes, there is a mini-quest, which will start at 21:00, to access the second Labyrinth.

[DARK DEMON]

*cough* Update

 

I would highly recommend that you VIEW AND EXPLORE the second Labyrinth before attempting to assume differences/similarities.

[dst]

*cough* Update

 

I would highly recommend that you VIEW AND EXPLORE the second Labyrinth before attempting to assume differences/similarities.

Awesome! Good thing you say this AFTER I sent you what I THOUGHT to be the difference/similarities are. Maybe next time you'll be more explicit.

[DARK DEMON]

Okay, I thought it was understood, but I apologize for not being very explicit about this point.

 

dst is allowed one more attempt. Main post edited.

[Myth]

Well... as much as I'd love to go through with this, I'll be away until next week, most likely...

 

But, good luck, folks :p

[dst]

I do not trust dd's judgement and he's the only judge. GG and 2 GCs (or 3) are sponsored by admins. Since he doesn't want to ask someone else to help judge I want the entries to be anonymous.

[DARK DEMON]

Nope.

 

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/15989-the-labyrinth-2-results/?p=159033

 

As everyone can see, there was a huge fuss created last time. I will not let such a thing happen again.

 

 

If you do not agree with the quest and how it is run, please feel free to not participate. Any further posts related to this matter will be removed.

Edited April 17, 2015 by DARK DEMON

[dst]

The prizes are NOT ALL provided by you. I have the RIGHT to participate in a quest sponsored by admins. And I have the RIGHT to a fair judgement. Not biased. ESPECIALLY since you will be super biased for the thing you posted above. So, I ask again for FAIR judging.

[Myth]

(missunderstanding alert)

 

I believe dst means that she wishes the entries to be submitted annonymously. Not posted here under "annonymous".

 

Meaning that, people submit entries to someone else, that someone else gives them to you (DD) to judge, and that way you don't know whose entry is whose.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Myth

[DARK DEMON]

I have already started receiving entries, hence that is not possible.

 

Next time, perhaps indeed. Although I can assure that it wouldn't make the puniest difference whether I knew who's submission it was or not.

[Shadowseeker]

Question: What do we do if we get more than 7 similarities/differences? Are we supposed to cut them down to 7 only?

[Miq]

Is there any info on the "mini quest" or we just find a way into the second laby how ever we manage? 

[DARK DEMON]

Question: What do we do if we get more than 7 similarities/differences? Are we supposed to cut them down to 7 only?

 

You select the seven that you think are most prominent. If more than 7 are sent, I'll just look at the first 7.

 

 

Is there any info on the "mini quest" or we just find a way into the second laby how ever we manage? 

 

It is an entire clicky quest. Search the Labyrinth for the activator clicky which will start the quest and allow you to see all the clickies.

Edited April 17, 2015 by DARK DEMON

[DARK DEMON]

Quest ends at 18:00 tomorrow (Sunday). Be sure to submit your entries before then!

[Rophs]

Because my entry was not accepted I will post it here publicly so that others might benefit from the (lack of) wisdom it contains.

They are the same labyrinths. The shadow labyrinth was the labyrinth before entropy came and took its toll. MD in its current state is broken, and it was "created" by Mur like this but this is only how he found it. You've gone and dug up something that is older than Mur.

[DARK DEMON]

Thank you for participating. I hope everybody enjoyed the second Labyrinth. Now for the winners:

 

1) First place was a tie: JadenDew and dst  (Jaden picks first, then dst, from a pool of 2 wishpoints and 2 GG drachs, Thank you Chewett for doubling rewards!)

2) Second place was also a tie: Shadowseeker and Zleiphneir (Shadowseeker picks first, then Z, from the two that are left

3) Third place goes to Aeo (5 gold)

 

The submissions are as follows:

 

dst

[spoiler]

Difference:

Lab1 has all coords ending in "1" which makes it easy to recognize as being Lab1. Lab2 has all coords ending in "2". Why? Because one is the first labyrinth while the other one is the second. Also geometrically speaking we have the following 2 examples (I will resume at 2 although it's similar for the rest): in a 2D environment we have 2 axes: x and y. We choose 1 on x and 1 on y. The area is 1x1. Then we choose 2 on x and 2 on y. The area is 2x2 which includes the area of 1x1.In a 3d env, we can deal with surface but the current situation is better described by volume as it is clear that inside a cube with 2x2x2 (lab2) we will for sure have a cube of 1x1x1 (lab1). This means that once you reach Lab2, you have all the info from Lab1+ whatever you manage to discover in Lab2.


Similarity:
All whispers from both labies can be found at dead ends. A true labyrinth (as it was first created and explained by researchers) has no dead ends (mazes have dead ends). So this is a hybrid between a maze and a labyrinth. Since a labyrinth was seen as a way of finding yourself (or for some finding god) because you start from point A and you exit in point B (again, no dead ends but the path has twists and turns) BUT we still have some dead ends, I believe the whispers were placed there to guide the person. Once a person reaches a dead end, they find a message encouraging (or challenging or tempting - depends on each character) to go further. Also a labyrinth is designed to enhance the right brain side (creativity, imagination, daydreaming) while a maze is designed for the left brain side (words, logic, numbers, analysis, lists, linearity and sequence) so by being a hybrid, both labyrinths are meant to stimulate the whole brain, so a complete experience. You have 11 whispers in Lab1 and 15 in Lab2:11+15=26 =>2+6=8 - 8 fold and so on see my future explanations in next paragraphs.

Similarity:
Both labyrinths contain 4 obelisks. It can be seen like: one labyrinth has 1 Obelisk for all 4 main lands (MB, Necro, LR, GG) and the other for the other lands (UG, MDA, East, NML).We also have the 8 fold balance. So the 2 labyrinths complete each other to form a total (as well as what I said in my previous similarity about stimulating the entire brain).8 is also the vertical expression of infinite. Lay it horizontally and we have the symbol for infinite. One could get lost in a labyrinth. So basically one could be trapped in a labyrinth forever (indefinable or until infinite is reached). 


Differences:
Entrance to Lab 1 is done though normal means: get to the labyrinth entrance and go through it.
The entrance for the second one is done after finishing a series of tasks: activate lab, pick rock, go through door,activate device1, place rock on device2, activate wheel, find entrance to second gazeebo, activate second gazeebo. In total, we have again 8 actions to be done in order to reach the second labyrinth ( I explained the symbolism on number 8 in my above similarity). So while 1 labyrinth is fairly easy to access, the second one needs a lot more work. I could see this as reaching second level of spirituality. First level is finding yourself while second one is a deeper exploration. Not to mention that the entrance in second labyrinth is done though a coordinate which is considered the middle of the first one. So in order to advance you must first reach the core of the first one. In other words, there are 2 types of persons: ones that travel in Lab1 from entry to exit (almost a smooth path) and ones that seek more: they are not interesting of finding the exit,they are interested in finding more. And here the duality of the labyrinth (as in labyrinth/maze) comes again (the goal of a labyrinth is to enter through entry point and exit through...exit, the goal of a maze is to find it's core). So by looking for the core (the middle) of the laby, one can elevate itself to a newer, deeper level of experience. 


Difference: 
The exit for lab 1 is GG. The exit for lab 2 is paper cabin. Lab 1 has the normal entry/exit, quite straight path of a labyrinth. The exit from Lab2 takes you to the beginning. Paper Cabin is the place everything starts. It's like someone going though Lab1, finding the core and reaching Lab2 then finding the exit for it, is reborn. By rebirth I don't mean the physical act but the spiritual one. The person starts a new level with a deeper knowledge of themselves. Also, this corroborates with number 8 that governs the 2 labyrinths cause 8 is also the symbol of the new Life, the final Resurrection and the anticipated Resurrection(that is the baptism). A whole new life opens for the one that manages to cross the 2 labyrinths. 



Difference:
While Lab1 has no other restrictions than dead ends, Lab2 has other objects that can block someone's way (for example, I have encountered a boulder which at that time I couldn't remove). So why does Lab2 have other types of "restrictions"? The answer lies in the meaning of the second lab: a deeper level of knowledge brings out other types of questions (yes, I am making thinking at a obstacle to be a question, once you find the answer, you remove the question, once you find how to remove the boulder, you remove the obstacle). Lab1 exploration can be similar to a shallow exploration of ones' mind (questions that everybody asks themselves now and then). Lab2 means you have found the answers from Lab1 (so you found how to enter the second lab) and now you're exploring and learning about this level of your mind. 


Differences:

Although at a first glance it looks like Lab2 has the same structure/form as Lab1, there are differences. As an example: in Lab1, 6_4x-3_1 doesn't exist (actually it does but it's not reachable by normal means or by normal players). While in Lab2, this place exists. In Lab1, what is mathematically speaking the center: 6_0x-0.5_1 not only exists but it's also the stating point of the Lab2 (I will ignore the cross scene for now because this is a different connection with the whole game and I am only allowed to talk about 7 things;besides, from the point of view of the coords, it's not really relevant.This happens because what I have said earlier: by going from Lab1 to Lab2 you learn more and things that at the beginning seemed impossible or nonexistent turn out not to be virtual but very real.

[/spoiler]

 

Nimrodel

[spoiler]

comparisons:

1. outlet here in this labyrinth is to paper cabin

2. The number of obelisks are different

3. there are more dead ends in number

4. The maze is still a hedge

5. It is brighter than the old maze

6. Mostly its like a connection between GG and paper cabin

7. Its like a mirror image of the original labyrinth. The cordinates are arranged in that way.

[/spoiler]

 

Shadowseeker:

[spoiler]

1. There is a tag dispenser in the Labyrinth at 0x-3

This exists because it was promised originally and needed a proper location to fit in. Considering the labyrinth has a total of 8 obelisks (4 normal 4 2nd) it makes sense to be placed in the 2nd labyrinth, which is the hidden one and thus needs more exploration so to speak to be found. The dispenser is of course on the mirror line, see fact 4 for more about the line.

2. There are more rocks in the 2nd laby

These rocks that exist in the 2nd laby are just like the one you picked up in the normal one, but they are more and they actually block paths in the labyrinth. This is something that I cannot fully explain, but I assume some distortion in the reflection due to them. Apparently the rocks come from the UG (Inventory stamp), but how they appeared is a mystery.

3. There are exits to the PC if you don't realize you're at the border
The labyrinth only exists in a grid from -4 to 4 x 4 to -5, so any paths leading past the -5 will end up with you leaving the 2nd labyrinth. That the result is a trip to the papercabin is probably due to the PC being the starting point for us all, and you end up at it again once you leave the hidden side. We have 2 of these (see fact 7) instead of 1, and there has to be at least one exit, since the normal one also has one.

4. The Labyrinth is mirrored down the 0x line
The whole 2nd labyrinth can be mirrored down the 0x line, from setup to pathways and everything. This results in symmetry for the things inside. You can conclude that this is due to the 2nd labyrinth being the more "complete and ordered" version of the normal labyrinth, that only exists if you can reach the hidden point. Thus is results in something that clearly is the result of a mirror- though it is still questionable why you would have a mirror within a mirror then. Possibly due to shards of mirrors being connected. It is however not perfect, certain scenes are not being mirrored. This happens close to the rocks which can be found in the laby, apparently distorting the reflection. (sort of a pond?)
The obelisk number being added in the 2nd laby is being based on the promised 24, with the next 4 now being added. This is also to balance the obelisks you have in the normal laby, which however are not placed symmetrically. They are of course placed symmetrically.

5. The entrance coordinated are from 0x-0.5
The hidden point is actually existing in order for you to be able to enter the labyrinth. This is not a point that would normally exist, having broken coordinates- but this is again a reflection of the normal labyrinth, with the 2nd laby being hidden inside the normal one, and requiring the middle in order to be accessed. It also shows that the normal laby was broken, and the 2nd laby is a more complete version.

6. One scene in the labyrinth has the name crossroads in it instead of coordinates
This entrance is the same as the one you find if you enter the normal labyrinth, except for the missing sign. This is a symbol of you having entered the labyrinth, just like in the normal one, but this time it being the 2nd one, and crossroads due to 2 different sections of the labyrinth, which are mirrored to each other and thus similiar but not the same. Of course this is placed on the mirror line again.

7. Coordinate _2 instead of _1 at the end
All coordinates have the number 2 at the end compared to the normal labyrinth, which is due to it being the hidden one and thus the number 2 being borne out of 1. One the same coordinates, with different scenes, but with a different number to specify- similiar to the spin for atoms in chemistry.
The hedges are cut open twice for the pathways on 4 path ones. In the normal labyrinth all hedges are only split once to provide pathways, otherwise they are connected. The 2nd laby instead has 2, this also being a symbol for the number 2 being born from 1.

Fun fact: Some scenes are curved once only, the normal laby is curved twice at least in any scene. (In the triangle ones you just have two curves starting from the same point)

[/spoiler]

 

Aeoshattr

[spoiler]

"Seven (actually 8) comparisons:

1. Same total layout (10 rows by 9 columns) - shadow laby appears "overlapped" on normal laby somehow.
2. X is swapped with Y, compared to regular laby.
3. Increased AP cost - difficult to move in a time you don't belong in, maybe in a way similar to viscosity?
4. All coords in shadow lab end in _2 (supports the overlap theory, comparable to the overlap in other scenes ending in _2 or _3 - maybe 1 level above, below or simply in another time?)
5. Second Lab contains at least 1 scene with East-like coords (6_crossroads_2) and at least 1 scene with fractional coords (6_0x0.5_2) (literally no idea why, I'd need to know more about the East to answer this.)
6. Gazebo in old laby is worn/destroyed -> suggests Shadow Laby is in a different time (new gazebo) and overlapped in space but not time (if that makes sense?)
7. Connections and pathways between scenes are changed - could be because in time the "hedges" in the maze grew, leading to the new, different pattern of movement opposed to the old one we see in the shadow lab.
8. May or may not be relevant - arrows have different artwork to normal laby (again, no idea why. probably Mur lost the artwork to old arrows)"

[/spoiler]

 

JadenDew

[spoiler]

Differences

Coord-Number
All Coordinate numbers ends with a _2 (appropriate for second labyrinth xD) in the new laby contrast to _1
Usually in MD, scenes with the same xy coords but different endings like _1, _2, _3 are usually places with the same xy coords in MD world but are interiors or differenting altitude. Here, I believe, the new labyrinth ends with _2 its on a different "altitude" in a alternate dimension

Layout
One very obvious difference of the new maze is the layout. Your original maps are useless because scenes are connected differently. Or it would be more accurate to say, the contents are different. Although the "box of rules" it exists in is the same (see similarities section) the contents are different. It may be the nature of the labyrinth to be so, being on a different dimension from the original, it is free from the whatever restriction imposed by the layout of the original labyrinth and forms its own. With this and the connection between the 2 mazes through the gazebo, the maze in its "entirety" (combination of both dimensions) grew in complexity.

Gazebo Placement
Another obvious difference upon entering is the lack of the Gazebo of Lost Souls.
Well it certainly felt like it dropped you in the middle of Mur-knows-where with no clue how to exit. Perhaps that is the purpose or the nature (as in implied by the name) of the Gazebo:  to cause whoever who interacts with its magic to "lose control" of their whereabouts

AP consumption
Interestingly its both literally and figuratively harder to get around in the second labyrinth than the first. Figuratively because the layout of the original maze is very well known especially among vets. If you ask someone to go into a specific coordinate in the original maze, it would won't be to difficult. In this new maze, however, without knowing its layout it would be more difficult. I wonder if the AP consumption reflects this making it even also literally hard to navigate the new maze.

Another possibility is that the second maze is "deeper" and the deeper within the complexity, the harder it is to get out.


Similarities

Dimensions
While the layout is different, the second labyrinth is no larger or smaller in size (around 9x10 in size if im not wrong)
This may be because the place, being still in MD reality has to conform to its physical rules.

Logical Movement
Like the original maze, pressing a right arrow would mean you are going 1 scene right in the xycoords sense more or less. you wont, say, press a right arrow in -2x4 and end up in 3x3. Again as explained above, with the maze still being in MD reality, it has to conform to its rules.

Tiling and Bushes
Both mazes are made of the same floor tiles and the same hedges everywhere. This creates a homogeneity in the original maze and makes different locations the same. This trend continues in the new maze. Possibly meant to confuse people within. In fact, without coord numbers and A25 clickies standing out from the original scene, it may become difficult to tell between the two mazes if you are randomly thrown into a random scene in either one of them.

[/spoiler]

 

Zleiphneir

[spoiler]

7 Differences Between the 2 Labyrinths & Possible Explanations

1: The main labyrinth is less symmetrical than the second labyrinth. This lends itself to the idea that it is more organised, and I would consider it more like a storage bank collected from the first and categorised accordingly similar to how the mind organises our real world experiences into different spots while we sleep.

2: The second labyrinth has an off centre hub of 4 areas from which you could take a given path to access any labyrinth quadrant, the main labyrinth requires much more effort to navigate between quadrants and they are not as interlinked. Again, this suggests a more organised structure where the build is more familiar by design. It is both friendlier in that you can roam around more easily, and more dangerous as you can connect things that perhaps should be best kept separate. 

3: The main labyrinth enters from the bottom, and exits from the top, while the second labyrinth enters off-centre via the first and exits in two separate areas, but both from the bottom. This adds to point 2, and suggests one could get used to a particular well walked linear path in the first labyrinth, whilst the second lends itself to a more exploitative expedition as you can exit a couple of different ways and end up in a couple of different places. The first labyrinth appears more functional, as if you are performing a task, whilst the second comes across more like using your imagination.

4: The main labyrinth has signposts at the entrance and exit. The second labyrinth has no sign posts. Again this points to an exploration. As it is a secondary point accessed via the first, it also denotes an unknown depth, entering a labyrinth via a labyrinth, like a dream within a dream, or a box within a box, you are immersing yourself into a secondary reality. It is not part of the usual system, it does not conform to the usual rules. It is both familiar enough to lack signposts, and foreign enough to lack signposts. Either this place was never supposed to have visitors, or you own it.

5: The main labyrinth does not have any blocked paths, the second labyrinth has some paths blocked by immoveable stones. The difference here is not to do with dead ends. Both labyrinths have dead ends. A blocked path either must be battled with, or respected. The stones do not appear to be placed in areas where gaps have formed, so they don't appear to be stopping you from making new paths but rather, avoiding access to a certain areas in a certain way. relating back to point 2, this appears to be a safety mechanism for the explorer. Some memories, some knowledge, is best kept locked, otherwise you may end up exploring forever.

6: Both labyrinths have apparent 'gaps' where something appears as if it may be missing once mapped out. There are four in the first, and eight in the second. One of these apparent gaps has become the linking point between the two labyrinths and has caused 3 to spread around that point in the second as if the very creation of that portal has a blast area. Two gaps remain consistent, and one has shifted on a 180 degree axis and one column across where once it had been in equilibrium with another. There are also 2 gaps in the second labyrinth where the entry and the path above the entry sits for the first. four becomes eight, one becomes three, none becomes two, two remains two, and one morphs into another version of itself. The effects of shifting appear to be in a few different forms. In the first labyrinth, we think we know more than we do if we consider the second, in terms of compass points we are also more directional where in the second we see diagonal perspectives. Entry points demonstratively have power and cause things to appear and disappear. Some things remain the same. Some change. I see these factors as a demonstration of 'having an open mind' or a 'change in perspective'. 

7: The main labyrinth has 4 obelisks, as does the second labyrinth. They are stored in different locations and have different symbols but remain the same in number. I believe this to be more to do with the obelisks than the labyrinth and will therefore not go into this much. Suffice to say that they are perfectly symmetrical in the second labyrinth, supporting the organised structure whilst offering new rewards when found. One could argue that a skill found in the main labyrinth can be honed further by access to the second, and that in some ways the second makes it easier to develop the skill set. It reminds me of muscle memory.

[/spoiler]

 

I request everybody to please vote and send your feedback on the quest voting page. Thank you.

Edited April 19, 2015 by DARK DEMON

[dst]

I pick the wishpoint.

[JadenDew]

Theres 2 WP right? so one each? o.O

 

Edit: I mean.. I'm picking the WP too .. so one each for 1st placers? Unless this is a dream and I haven't won..

Edited April 19, 2015 by JadenDew

[Sasha Lilias]

Theres 2 WP right? so one each? o.O

 

Edit: I mean.. I'm picking the WP too .. so one each for 1st placers? Unless this is a dream and I haven't won..

 

It was just a dream, go back to sleep...

 

Pst, DD. Jade said I could have the WP! :P

Edited April 20, 2015 by Sasha Lilias

[JadenDew]

WP gotten! Thanks DD!