Revamping MD

[No one]

It took me a while to start writing this so please bear with me.

 

Some of you know that I "enjoy" "changing" with the interface of MD or in other words "I like it adjusted", mostly from some forum posts or some 3rd party advertising.

 

The questions are simple :

Would you like to be able to "pimp" yourself your MD interface ?

What would you like changed/"pimped" in MD that would help you greatly?

And the most important of all :Why / why not to pimp MD ?

 

I know that some will not agree because ... "that is the way MD is and should not be changed" or "it will cause a lot of bugs that are not from MD and it is wasting coder's time".

On the other hand I've heard "wow, I didn't know that <location> had that <resourse/tag>" or "nice, now I can see easier what is interesting me".

 

 

Do note: I do not talk about bugs, link abuses, hacking (as in MD code hacking). This is just about "pimping" what is already available on the page.

Edited June 18, 2015 by No one

[Chewett]

Do note: I do not talk about bugs, link abuses, hacking (as in MD code hacking). This is just about "pimping" what is already available on the page.

As a note, you can call it what you like but it is still not allowed. You are modifying the behavior of MD to allow you to do things faster. This is an unfair advantage and who knows where you stop. Would you say that "Oh writing a bot to trade lots of items is fine because its just using MD", or what about a bot to attack again "im just using MD".

I personally have wasted a lot of time where people have installed such scripts and forgotten or didnt know what they did and either they broke them, or the scripts were badly written and broke their MD.

Although interestingly the new interface will have a large amount of customisation since we plan "slots" of information to move around the page.

We know a number of people use scripts to gain an unfair advantage and some even brag about it and this isnt really fair. If script use becomes widespread we will have to just ban those using or making them because it is unfair.

[Chewett]

Although interestingly the new interface will have a large amount of customisation since we plan "slots" of information to move around the page.

To focus on the positive points of the post, how do people think the interface could change.

The optimial width of MD is planned to change to 1280. This fits the majority of screen sizes and this should be taken into account.

If this discussion gets interesting I might leak the prototypes :D

[dst]

How I see things:

 

The interface can be improved a lot but there is no time and no "bandwidth" allocated to it and I am well aware of why.

On the other hand, there are people with knowledge to make their life easier. Their knowledge could be used. I am really not getting why they are shunned (or maybe in No one's case I do get why and imo it's a childish reason).

 

So, seems "scripting" is not allowed in MD, the best solution is to do it but just keep it for yourself (which contradicts the belief that all people should have the same advantages). We're going in circles here.

 

No one had an idea which he remembers from time to time: to have a toolbar where you could add scripts made by players. It's not only doable but it also allows the official coders (be it Chew or Mur) to have a control of what is used, other players are sure the scripts are not harmful and occasional coders have a place where they put their work.

 

Why ban it when you can use it? You will still cannot stop players that really want to abuse MD if they really want to so what's the point in banning all scripts?

[No one]

Thank you Chew for stating this. Yes, I know this point long before you started coding in MD. And I am considering it every time I think of something else to pimp.

 

As for bots ... if I remember well, you were one of those who said that created & advertised them (at least) while I dis-considered the idea every time (I don't need you or anyone else to believe me for this).

 

Why I am raising this topic ? Simple: you (as in the sum of all MD coders) don't have the time to "fix" or adjust the interface.

 

On the other hand, that attitude from your first post made MD worse (remember the moment when Mur wanted to forbid the copy/paste in MD).

While I understand your general reticence toward external code, I am laughing every time I think of it. Think of this:

 - you have MDcode that is available to general public

 - you have A25 (whatever that is) that was granted to unstable (to say the least) ppl

 

An idea that leaked and got implemented in MD even if in a lame way is the "names instead of IDs in trigger box".

Another one, similar implementation, is : creature list.

 

You don't have to believe me that the pimping is good or that just looks better, you know who (not me) and what to ask.

 

As for ideas ... there are so many but that's the issue: everybody likes them their own way.

[spoiler]

 

- inventory - at least to keep the tab opened on refresh

- inventory - highlight certain items,

- inventory - order the items in different ways

- inventory - open more then one tab at the same time

 

- creature list page - allow on page sorting

- creature list page - show more information on this page ... based on player's choice

- creature list page - remember the preferences on page reload

- creature page - have a list of creatures available for quick creature check

 

- message system ...

- combat page / log

[/spoiler]

and many many many more. You can even check the "new ideas" topic for things related to user interface.

 

 

So, the initial question/s stands: Why / why not ?

Edited June 18, 2015 by No one

[Muratus del Mur]

using such scripts means three things

 

1) unfair advantages over people that don't want to use them

2) altering the general perception of how md is

3) encouraging possible cheating

 

not only that i will not support such things, but i am about to stop closing an eye on the people that use them, till now silently.

 

So the official standpoint about such scripts is NO, i will not allow their use, their promotion, or anything related to them.

 

Using them to suggest new features, that is alright, but going on a spree to corrupt other players into altering their md experience through these scripts is something that totally disturbs me (and i am enough disturbed as i am :P)

 

To quote chew:

 

We know a number of people use scripts to gain an unfair advantage and some even brag about it and this isnt really fair. If script use becomes widespread we will have to just ban those using or making them because it is unfair.

 

I respected the talent and effort of those doing such things, `No one` being the main creator of such things, but i like to speak in general because all this applies to anyone doing such "md extensions". This is why i didn't took any drastic measures against their use...but apparently my indulgence is about to be abused, and from using such scripts for personal use, you became really rude and ignore the fact that i always said NO to them, and now you are advertising them and try to corrupt players to use them, so you leave me no choice really.

 

 

I have two options, to continue to stress chew or stress myself to find ways to prevent use of such scripts, or to stop wasting this time that could be used for more creative things, and simply address the source of the trouble, you.

 

This is a friendly warning, in case you forgot i DO NOT AGREE WITH 3rd party md extentions.

 

 

ps:@chew, careful what you leak..its supposed to be a surprise (for me too!, i don;t want to see it till it happens!) :D

[Chewett]

An idea that leaked and got implemented in MD even if in a lame way is the "names instead of IDs in trigger box".

Something you might have forgotten, I was the one who provided the extensive list of ID's to playernames and helped you with that script. When I was later a coder I liked the idea so I implemented. It wasnt leaked :P

[MRWander]

I for one think it would add to MDs uniqueness to be able to rearrange the ui and customize it like we can with our characters and rituals and spells and access to different parts of the realm.

What advantagecould there be to color coordinating your items be? It makes it easier to remember what I want to keep?

Edited June 18, 2015 by MRWander

[No one]

Something you might have forgotten, I was the one who provided the extensive list of ID's to playernames and helped you with that script. When I was later a coder I liked the idea so I implemented. It wasnt leaked :P

I haven't forgotten nor it invalidates my statement, but the ideas still "leaked" into MD. I just never said who or how.

 

 

using such scripts means three things

 

1) unfair advantages over people that don't want to use them

2) altering the general perception of how md is

3) encouraging possible cheating

 

1) "someone" said that MD is an unfair game. And ... if someone chooses NOT to use them ... it is their choice. Being generally available doesn't mean that will raise the unfairness level.

2) so far, only you and Chewett were the only ones that could actually change how MD looks. While I thank Chewett for updating its general approach & coding of stuff, I thank you for MD as a whole. But ... it's been 10 years (8 since I started) and the interface is like this.

3) no, the cheating encouraging ... is you who is/were doing that  - this is not a topic to discuss about it

 

[spoiler]

not only that i will not support such things, but i am about to stop closing an eye on the people that use them, till now silently.

 

So the official standpoint about such scripts is NO, i will not allow their use, their promotion, or anything related to them.

 

Using them to suggest new features, that is alright, but going on a spree to corrupt other players into altering their md experience through these scripts is something that totally disturbs me (and i am enough disturbed as i am :P)

 

To quote chew:

 

I respected the talent and effort of those doing such things, `No one` being the main creator of such things, but i like to speak in general because all this applies to anyone doing such "md extensions". This is why i didn't took any drastic measures against their use...but apparently my indulgence is about to be abused, and from using such scripts for personal use, you became really rude and ignore the fact that i always said NO to them, and now you are advertising them and try to corrupt players to use them, so you leave me no choice really.

 

 

I have two options, to continue to stress chew or stress myself to find ways to prevent use of such scripts, or to stop wasting this time that could be used for more creative things, and simply address the source of the trouble, you.

 

This is a friendly warning, in case you forgot i DO NOT AGREE WITH 3rd party md extentions.

 

 

ps:@chew, careful what you leak..its supposed to be a surprise (for me too!, i don;t want to see it till it happens!) :D

[/spoiler]

Thank you for your sharing your explosive feelings (from using such scripts for personal use, you became really rude).

 

But I've never requested support for any of it. Only once I've suggested a change and you made MD's worst debugging week. And what good did that do ? Did you fell any better ?

Mur, you should consider doing what I did , from my side of the server and then you should share your experience and results.

 

And a personal request from me to you Mur: please read my posts.

 

 

Thank you for your input and support. Now everybody knows why not : because Mur doesn't like them and we also have your confirmation that MD will not support 3rd party scripts.

 

Now, can we get back on topic ? We still have 2 other questions:

The questions are simple :

Would you like to be able to "pimp" yourself your MD interface ?

What would you like changed/"pimped" in MD that would help you greatly?

And the most important of all :Why / why not to pimp MD ?

 

-----------------

Note 1: I have never mentioned (in this topic) anything about "scripts".

 

Note 2: But I do stand by this affirmation by Dst :

 

 

No one had an idea which he remembers from time to time: to have a toolbar where you could add scripts made by players.

Edited June 18, 2015 by No one

[Aeoshattr]

1. Why is this in Seal of Six section? Isn't this more suitable for other sections of the forum? I might sound rude, but I don't get it.

 

2. Maybe a bit of customisation wouldn't hurt, but I don't see MD as some sort of Android platform where everybody can make everything look different. Why? I have the weak argument that "I feel it would take away some of what makes MD... MD." I wouldn't mind various "themes" and appearances for the interface (maybe the interface could look differently based on the player's land? I think that would be pretty neat.) but I was told at some point that the idea was abandoned.

 

Stuff I'd like: 

• Make the right handside bar default to something other than status bar
• Notifications of creatures being ready to level (creature icon could bleep and turn gold?)
• Notifications that voting websites have finished cooldown
• Ability to sort your inventory (alphabetically, most recent, type, cooldown, idk)
• sort messages into "conversations with player X" (rather than an endless stream of individual messages)

I personally don't like the idea of "scripts" currently because they're not publicly available (or at least not to my knowledge? The language to make scripts might be available, but not scripts themselves, for the coding-illiterate like me). I wouldn't mind them as much if "finished" scripts were made public, maybe something like mods are for other games. NO, I do not think mods are suitable for MD, I am only using the "method of distribution" as comparison, not the products themselves. Still, I feel scripts are quite icky and stigmatised in general.

 

Scripts aside - a few customisation options would be very good. I would rather call them "ergonomics" rather than "customisation" since I think most of the stuff that would be neat in MD would be accessibility options (like inventory sorting ) rather than full-on "I want to move this tab here, this tab there, I don't want to see the chat or the scenes, etc". 

 

Interesting discussion. 

[No one]

1. Why is this in Seal of Six section? Isn't this more suitable for other sections of the forum? I might sound rude, but I don't get it.

SoS is my alliance. And SoS section of the forum is under SoS management.

 

This topic (as most of the SoS section) is not necessary as a "TO DO" for MD coders but it just raises subjects that most not even dare considering them, not to mention about talking in public.

If this / these topics raises ideas that would finally improve MD then ... it has achieved its purpose.

 

Thank you Aeoshattr,

... interesting items too

[Ary Endleg]

Even if this was allowed how could people be assured that 3rd party scripts they download ain't malicious? It would require to have somebody checking them each time they are submitted/updated to the public.

 

 

• Notifications that voting websites have finished cooldown

 

Voting reminder

 

With 25 rep this is officially the highest feature publicly requested on forum. Even beating the citizenship feature request by 2 points! :P

Edited June 18, 2015 by Ary Endleg

[No one]

Even if this was allowed how could people be assured that 3rd party scripts they download ain't malicious? It would require to have somebody checking them each time they are submitted/updated to the public.

Indeed, just like with the software, the scripts must be vouched by somebody.

[Rophs]

I used to use a script that hid the facebook buttons on the left side of the screen. Their design really clashed with the rest of the ui and I had a script set to hide them every time I loaded layout.php

 

As a result of using that script my md experience was slightly more enjoyable but I don't feel that any unfair advantage was gained.

[Change]

No one, if there was a list of admin-allowed scripts that players were allowed to use, what would they do? I ask this because I play lots of games where there are common scripts that provide information to the player. A similar script for MD might tell you the time left until full APs. Others might automatically map out locations, and so on, while others merely are display enhancers. 

 

However, some are trigger-based, such as, if Change is detected in a location, cast movelock on her instantly (this would be VERY easy to do, unless I'm wrong). It's these that I think are explicitly unfair. (the information ones are very unfair too). In lots of games that I play, player-run guilds and alliances often REQUIRE their members to install such scripts or they're not allowed in, because not having the scripts would put the alliance members at a disadvantage.

 

Even if that doesn't happen in MD, there will still be the choice that's not a nice choice between using such scripts or not. Say I love combat, but I love the MD interface in it's classical form. Yet I can't compete with other users because they have so much information provided by scripts. So I have to choose between ruining the MD interface that I love and being great at combat, or keeping it as it is and merely being 'good' at combat. Such a choice leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and I'm sure it does for others as well.

 

Thus the only scripts that I'd want to be allowed would be ones that don't give players an advantage. Scripts like the one Rophs just mentioned would be fine. A script that tells you how many resources are in a particular scene, their regen rate, and when they'll fully regen would be not. (Such a script would likely be difficult/impossible to make now since certain changes were made, but before it was probably much easier).

Edited June 20, 2015 by Change

[No one]

Indeed, scrips can do nasty stuff. If you look you might find that some used them in their personal pages for some nasty results.

 

But we're talking here about the good and useful stuff, the possible features ( as Chewett said earlier ), here is some that got implemented:

 - the names in the trigger box (now implemented)

 - the creature list (now implemented)

 - upgradable creatures (fixed with the new creature page)

 

If there are some good ideas, when the coders will have time, they might just implement them.

 

As I always say: one can do lots of damage with an ill intended script, so ... lets not get into that "ill" part.

 

Latest ideas (that I picked today) on such features:

 - removal of the "facebook/tweeter" buttons

 - removal of the interface movement on page resizing - I would prefer an old-timer like "<center>"

 

 

So, the questions still stand:

Would you like to be able to "pimp" yourself your MD interface ?

What would you like changed/"pimped" in MD that would help you greatly?