Inaccurate/Outdated information - Profile and skills, principles, weapon sets

[Myth]

This is the page: http://magicduel.com/pages/help.info.php?p=profileinfo

 

The following pieces are inaccurate, as far as I could test/observe:

 

1. General Profile

 

a) "The attributes from the first source are your initial stats and they come as a reward from the story and from both your won and lost fights." --- story is gone; "initial" (I'd call them "base") stats come from more than that

 

b) "The attributes from the fourth source come from magic and illusions and are often temporary and require greater activity and knowledge within the realm to obtain." --- are bursts included in "magic and illusions"?

 

c) "You can get fractions of skill and attribute points, but only full numbers count. So if you have 4.99 attack on your profile, they will still only count for 4." --- this is false; fractions also get divided and spread in battle; I can provide combat logs for proof, if needed

 

2. Different skills you can learn

 

a) "Initiative:
During a fight, creatures will be sorted in order of their initiative value. The creature with the highest initiative will start first.
Creatures have initiative too and the higher their level is, the more initiative they’ll have. (this isn't always true; example: Grasan) Player initiative skill will be divided amongst the creatures that fight in a combat based on the vitality (initiative?) involved in that battle, much like the other attributes such as attack and defence."

 

b) "Briskness:
Briskness is the attribute that adds to each heat increase during your adventuring in the realm and when you fight.
Having a high briskness value will let you gather heat faster.
For example you get 4-6 heat seconds for each new location you visit, but if you have 20 briskness you would get 24-26 heat seconds every time you move, making you reach maximum heat very fast just by going to a place. (this was most likely altered once viscosity and cartography were introduced; moving through areas with -80 viscosity will yield 1 heat; moving from land to land yields different values depending on the land; I can't determine accurate values for moving to and from scenes with different values of viscosity)
Heat is used as a multiplier for the bonuses and skills you will have gained during a fight. More heat means that you will get more attributes.
Heat is also used to fuel spells and sometimes other things."

 

c) Skills have yet to be added here as they were introduced, as per:

 

"Woodcutting:
...

More skills are planned to be implemented in the gameplay."

 

3. Weapon Sets

 

"Weapons can be bought in shops all over the realm, as can pieces of armour. Some are cheap, some are expensive. They all add to your attributes.
There are also weapons and pieces of armour that are part of a set.
When you wear or equip one of these pieces, you will get no extra bonus.
However, if you wear two pieces of a set you will gain an extra 15% over the attributes that you gain from the weapons and pieces of those set, and if you wear three pieces of a set, you get a bonus of 30% over those attributes, if you wear four pieces, you get a bonus of 45%. This bonus does not apply to the weapons and pieces of armour that are not part of the set."

 

I tried for hours to figure it out and failed. Bottom line: bonus stats from weapon sets are inaccurate. Example:

- Asthir has 283.38 base power

- equips Medusa body part (4% of base = 11.3352 / 11.34 rounded)

- equips Lyzard's Tail (2% of base = 5.6676 / 5.67 rounded)

- add 15% bonus to power gained through equipment:

--- (11.3352 + 5.6676) * 1.15 = 17.0028 * 1.15 = 19.55322 or

--- (11.34 + 5.67) * 1.15 = 17.01 * 1.15 = 19.5615

- [base value] + [gear piece bonus] + [set bonus]

--- 283.38 + 19.55322 = 302.93322 or

--- 283.38 + 19.5615 = 302.9415

- actual value (I can provide screenshots if you'd like) is "300 (283.38+17)"

 

4. Principles Charge

 

This says "coming soon...". I don't know how long it's been saying that for.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Myth

[Aethon]

2. Different skills you can learn

 

a) "Initiative:
During a fight, creatures will be sorted in order of their initiative value. The creature with the highest initiative will start first.
Creatures have initiative too and the higher their level is, the more initiative they’ll have. (this isn't always true; example: Grasan) Player initiative skill will be divided amongst the creatures that fight in a combat based on the vitality (initiative?) involved in that battle, much like the other attributes such as attack and defence."

 

I believe that "personal influence" is meant there; though that line should be re-written to:

 

"Much like the other attributes, such as attack and defence, a player's initiative skill is divided between the creatures in a ritual, based upon the personal influence involved in that battle."

Edited July 30, 2015 by Aethon

[Grido]

Please note that I am able to edit this page, if someone wants to put together a paragraph for any missing skills then it can get looked at being updated, along with  any other outdated or incorrect information that is currently being reviewed.

 

1. b) A burst is indeed magic, but that's not to say there shouldn't be further elaboration there.

 

Principle charges have been coming soon^TM for a while. Based on how we currently use Principles I would hazard that a short description of their use with Tokens might be appropriate.

 

I would say the lack of stacked armour bonus is either a bug or something that was never coded though I wouldn't know which, has anyone observed the armour bonus to ever have an effect?

[Myth]

I would say the lack of stacked armour bonus is either a bug or something that was never coded though I wouldn't know which, has anyone observed the armour bonus to ever have an effect?

 

I can confirm the stats get added in battle. The only issue I've noticed is with the math.

 

Values don't differ greatly from what they should be: ~3 extra defense considering a base value of ~550 and 6 set pieces equipped (+75% from set bonus only).

 

But it's there, and I'm guessing higher base values will cause greater differences.

[Grido]

I tried for hours to figure it out and failed. Bottom line: bonus stats from weapon sets are inaccurate. Example:

- Asthir has 283.38 base power

- equips Medusa body part (4% of base = 11.3352 / 11.34 rounded)

- equips Lyzard's Tail (2% of base = 5.6676 / 5.67 rounded)

- add 15% bonus to power gained through equipment:

--- (11.3352 + 5.6676) * 1.15 = 17.0028 * 1.15 = 19.55322 or

--- (11.34 + 5.67) * 1.15 = 17.01 * 1.15 = 19.5615

- [base value] + [gear piece bonus] + [set bonus]

--- 283.38 + 19.55322 = 302.93322 or

--- 283.38 + 19.5615 = 302.9415

- actual value (I can provide screenshots if you'd like) is "300 (283.38+17)"

 

My point was 11.34+5.67 = 17(.01), which is the same value as is applied at the bottom there, indicating no set bonus is added at all.

 

Are you saying in battle a value other than 300 is used for you?

[Myth]

That's when I mix up 2 pieces of the set which give power. When I mix them all (6 pieces) the bonus 75% is applied, but with a little extra to some of the stats. This is the part I couldn't figure out.

 

For instance, E.I. comes from 2 set pieces only and it adds up to what it should. Granted, I don't have a lot of it, but it's accurate.

 

Every other stat gets an extra ~2%-6% of set bonus (base stat value is not included in the math, since the set bonus adds to stats gained from equipment only) compared to the value it should normally give.

 

But regardless of the combinations I tried, I couldn't pinpoint any specific set piece to be the cause of this extra stat gain.

 

In the example you quoted, the set pieces I tested were Medusa chest piece and the Lyzard's Tail. Other combinations gave different results, but still with numbers which don't correspond with the description.

[Ary Endleg]

I think you did the math wrong.

 

If set has 6 pieces (75% boost) and it gives defense boost lets say for example 10, 10, 20, 30, 15, 15. You need to sum that up first, in this case it's 100% boost then add set bonus of 75 after which you get 175% boost and that's when you take your stats and multiply it by that boost multiplier which is in this example 2,75.

[Myth]

The math is ok :P

 

In the example above - quoted by Grido - all is explained step by step. Bonuses are calculated, added up, given the 15% extra from 2 pieces and only then added to the base profile value.

 

Do the following experiment:

 

1. Assume you have 2000 att, 1000 pow, 3000 def, and 100 reg

2. Equip Medusa hand piece = +5% att, +3% pow = +100 att, +30 pow

3. Equip Medusa foot piece = +4% att, +1% def, +2% reg = +80 att, +30 def, +2 reg

4. Add the base bonuses from the 2 pieces = +180 att, +30 pow, +30 def, +2 reg

5. Add the set bonus to the above results (*1.15 because only 2 pieces are equipped) = +207 att, +34.5 pow, +34.5 def, +2.3 reg

6. Round the values to 2 decimals (in this case, there's no need)

 

By all means, the numbers in step 6 (5, because rounding isn't necessary) should be the blue ones you see on your profile page between parentheses.

Instead, what I notice is that the values for pow, def and reg are actually the ones in step 4 = the 15% set bonus wasn't added, while the value for att (which is the only stat which receives a bonus from both set pieces) was different than the one in step 6 (5, because rounding isn't necessary), in the sense that the 15% set bonus was actually a 11.[something]% set bonus. (in my particular case, with Asthir's stats)

 

I'll lay down my case below.

 

1. Asthir has 215.53 att, 283.63 pow, 551.87 def, and 28.22 reg

2. Equip Medusa hand piece = +5% att, +3% pow = +10.7765 att, +8.5089 pow

3. Equip Medusa foot piece = +4% att, +1% def, +2% reg = +8.6212 att, +5.5178 def, +0.5644 reg

4. Add the base bonuses from the 2 pieces = +19.3977 att, +8.5089 pow, +5.5178 def, +0.5644 reg

5. Add the set bonus to the above results (*1.15 because only 2 pieces are equipped) = +22.307355 att, +9.785235 pow, +6.34547 def, +0.64906 reg

6. Round the values to 2 decimals = +22.31 att, +9.79 pow, +6.35 def, +0.65 reg

 

Those are supposed to be the blue values on the profile page. Instead, what I see is: +21.55 att, +8.51 pow, +5.52 def, +0.56 reg

 

Notice that power, defense and regeneration values are the ones in step 4, rounded = they don't receive the 15% set bonus.

Also notice that the attack value in step 4 (19.3977) gets a set bonus ranging between 11.069% (*1.11069) and 11.095% (*1.11095) [these are approximate values, bottom line being that the bonus isn't 15%], becoming 21.55 instead of 22.31.

 

I can back this up with screenshots if necessary.

 

Try it yourself, I'm sure you'll notice the same inconsistencies. :P

Edited August 31, 2015 by Myth

[Ary Endleg]

I rechecked it and set bonus was applied in my case. I'm using royal guard set in combination with some non set items. All the math was fine. Only thing is that final percentages got rounded to full number. For example it was supposed to be 10,8% boost but 10% was applied instead, that's the only problem I encountered, set bonus got applied for me.

[Myth]

Now try the 2 Medusa pieces I mentioned, but take off all other equipment for a cleared view :p

[Ary Endleg]

Same thing, set bonus applied, but final percentage rounded down from 10,35 to 10 on attack, as for other bonuses 15% bonus on their value is too small to pass full number, hence it gets rounded down and it looks like on them that no set bonus got applied. For example power is 3*1,15=3,45 and it gets rounded down to 3 which makes it looks like nothing got added.

[Myth]

How are you seeing rounded values? My profile page displays them as follows:

 

[Ary Endleg]

  Briskness: 101

(78.59 + 7.86 + 15)

 

As you can see weapon bonus is 10% of the base stats but in fact it should have been 10,8%, however it got rounded down to the nearest full number so it's just 10%. If weapon set bonus wasn't present it would be 9 (6 from non set and 3 from set (5 set items = 60% bonus = 4,8 which got rounded down to 4 and then 6 from other items got added))

[Myth]

Don't use your external profile page to understand what you get. Those values aren't the ones which go in combat. Also, you're complicating things by using more equipment than the one in question, just get rid of it for the sake of this particular problem = set bonus of 15% per piece starting with 2nd piece :p

 

If you had 52.50 attack on your profile page (in game page) it would display 52 on the external page. But in battle, were you to attack with 5 creatures at 100% slider, the value which would be divided would be the one on the in game profile page.

 

So your troops would get 52.50 / 5 = 10.50 = 11 and not 52 / 5 = 10.40 = 10 attack each (because yes, they round up and down like that when distributed)

 

I'll take a look at the gladiator set when I get home. It's quite possible that one works ok. But the example I gave above can be rounded up and down any way you like, you still won't get the values supposed to be given.

[Myth]

Royal set tested. Math is indeed correct. Which leads me to believe there's a problem with how the Medusa set is made to work :p

[Myth]

Also retested the full Medusa set, this time on Myth, where Royal Guard set was fine.

 

Ended up with:

 

- 1.67 attack under correct value

- 2.28 defense under correct value

- 0.23 power under correct value

- correct regeneration

- correct energetic immunity

 

Went on to perform the same test as on Asthir = hand piece + foot piece only:

 

- 2.33 attack under correct value

- 0.68 defense under correct value (the exact 15% bonus which should have been added)

- 0.41 power under correct value (the exact 15% bonus which should have been added)

- 0.87 regeneration under correct value (the exact 15% bonus which should have been added)

 

Acting on the following theory: "If a player equips 2 pieces of a set of equipment, and those to pieces give a bonus to completely different stats compared to each other, the set bonus per piece doesn't get applied." I went ahead and tested 2 pieces only from the Royal Guard set: Sword (+7% att) and Shield (+12% def, +4% en. im., +2% brisk). They affect completely different stats and give relatively high bonuses on their own, which should make the stat difference obvious. Result:

 

- 0.33 attack under correct value (NOT the exact 15% bonus which should have been added)

- 3.65 defense under correct value (NOT the exact 15% bonus which should have been added)

- 2.48 energetic immunity under correct value (the exact 15% bonus which should have been added)

- 0.83 briskness under correct value (the exact 15% bonus which should have been added)

 

Above theory is confirmed only for non combat stats, in this case. Values of attack and defense are different, but again, I simply don't understand why. It's not a matter of rounding, because you don't lose 3.65 stat points from rounding down some decimals.

 

 

Off topic: tests were performed while listening to Ary's profile page soundtrack (literally 1 track), which I fell in love with. :p

[Ary Endleg]

Yes my soundtrack is awesome :p

 

No I didn't use external page, I used internal stat page. When you asked me last time for example I gave you the one with royal set and briskness because I don't feel like swapping gear back and forth and redoing math for each post since it's always same and works the same way.

 

But yes I did get proper numbers with your medusa 2 pieces.

 

Quite simple really if you have 4% from one piece in set and 5% from another piece in set and no more gear is on you then that's total boost of 10% not 10,35%. It gets rounded down.

If you however have one piece giving boost of 3% and other gives no boost to that stat then total boost is 3%. Yet even in this case set bonus was applied, issue is that 15% of 3% is 0,45% which is 3,45% but since only round numbers are used it's still 3% boost in end which makes it look like set bonus wasn't applied.

[Myth]

So the 15-75% bonus is applied to the sum of % the gear gives, then rounded down to an integer..

 

So it's not applied to the stats gained through all the set pieces added up...

 

 

Well... unless this was the way it was meant to be, point 3. in the first post can be discarded, lol

[Ary Endleg]

So the 15-75% bonus is applied to the sum of % the gear gives, then rounded down to an integer..

 

So it's not applied to the stats gained through all the set pieces added up...

 

 Yes, with exception of non-set pieces not receiving set bonus of course.

[Chewett]

This bug has been confirmed.