What are the creatures that fight for you?

[Malle]

I actually thought of this, briefly, when I first saw that image.

Is it that your creatures are somewhat independent manifestations of different sides of your "spirit" or personality? That, as you get to know the world (and in turn yourself), your control over yourself and how your spirit can manifest in the physical world improves not only in quality (as in you and the creatures you have grow stronger) but also in how large of a spectrum of yourself you can control (as in being able to control creatures that are more powerful)?

If so, is it then so that when you "sacrifice" the creature, you are in fact recalling that manifestation of your spirit to your spiritual self, gaining knowledge from the experiences that manifestation has had?

[Muratus del Mur]

yes, you got the ideea

[Khalazdad]

The Shadow

In the practice of certain types of psychotherapy we are very much concerned with the "shadow side". This is a way to conceptualize the aspects of our personality that we consciously think of as unacceptable, such as lust or aggression or other primal urges. When we repress the shadow side it becomes stronger; the more you try not to gamble the more intense becomes the urge; the more you wrestle with your hostility the bigger is the blow-up when it comes.

In Jungian analysis, one might try to help the patient to integrate their shadow side. This work might entail talking to that part of one’s personality as though it were a separate entity, sitting in an empty chair in the room. We might ask it what it wants and why. We might try to reach an accommodation with it. We might try to see its good qualities – gambling is a kind of risk taking that requires bravery, for example, and a life in which one never gambled at all would be both dull and unsuccessful. The more we are conscious of and accepting of the shadow side the less it dominates our character.

We seem to have a situation here in which the shadow side is no longer a metaphor but a pseudo-material manifestation of darker aspects of our characters. The Grasan is a hulking great behemoth; obese and moribund, it consumes to excess because it has nothing else to occupy it until you put it to work crushing your enemies. It takes on fights only with multiple adversaries, perhaps symbolizing a wish to challenge society itself or a negation of the individual. The Dark Archer is a being of pure hate that wishes only slaughter. As it grows it learns to slaughter without hating, to focus on the act of destruction as a boon, a way of leaving a mark on a meaningless world.

Other such themes abound here.

What of the Barren Soul that seeks to heal? At first it does not know whom to heal or when. It conducts its act of contrition entirely at random. As it grows it learns to apply itself in a meaningful manner, healing those most in need.

As with the shadow side of the psyche, these beings grow stronger the more one tries to keep them down. One sends them to do battle, to be crushed and beaten. While they might be repressed for a while, they never go away and eventually come back stronger – just as do our neuroses and addictions. The act of repression becomes one of affirmation: I am this corpulent beast; I am this wounded healer; I am this discarded sniper.

The ultimate expression of the parallel comes in the “sacrifice” of the beings. In this process, one finally embraces the being as an aspect of the self and takes on its strengths and essence. Tellingly, the characteristic most affected is value: we devalue these aspects of ourselves and are enriched when we learn to integrate them.

This, of course, is just the way I see things. I hope it helps others think about both the game world and their real lives a little differently. And if you find it to be drivel, I understand. I value that part of myself that does go on so.

K.

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I write this as a reply to this topic:

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com//index.php?showtopic=78

want to hear the spooky explanation to the "pets" that are not actualy "pets" in magicduel? ...little kids cover your years ...

The creatures you can recruit, are not real creatures, as you can notice, there is no part in the game where you are told you hold your creatures somwhere in your pocket or something. The story will bring you throu all kinds of adventures but there are no creatures following you allover the place ...they are not even in a spellbook or similar. Most of you wont even ask themselves about this because its normal in games to have creatures that fight for you. I want to give a short explanation about those creatures so that the whole thing gets a bit out of the 'standard' scenario of game creatures.

The first time you recruit a creature, you see the character summon a creature , in the drawing the creature looks like taking shape out of the character itself ...well yes, this is what it does... the creatures are representations of the players will. Its dificult for me to explain it, as i am not so good with words , especialy in a forein language, but i will try.

You might know the difference between hand-magic and mind-magic ..like ...one is when you use some device such as a wand and one is when you use only your mind .... of course , magic is a delicate subject so consider this just a theoretical example ... The creatures are like representations of how yourself are in certain moments or situations. The more skilled you are and the more deeper you understand the world you live in, in this case the magicduel world, the more types of creatures you are able to controll. Once you learn and controll one of the creatures, you will be able to upgrade it to a more advanced level, like it happens with a skill in realworld, the more you use it the better it gets.

The creatures in magicduel are not spells, they are also not quite summoned creatures also, but there is no other representation that could be easy to understand.

Some of you might understand what i am trying to say , some not. There are "combats" everytime in your life, from a real fight to speach fight on the phone ... in all thses situations you somehow take a different 'shape' (most dont realize it). There are moments when you feel like you are an eagle and fly, or when you feel tiger that is about to atack.... most people stick to one or two 'shapes' but depending on your knowledge about this you could theoreticaly take any of this virtual shapes, you just need to "learn" them .. or a better word that goes with the game, to recruit those creatures.

The vital energy of the player is bound direclty to the creature power, remember that slider before the combat...als the user replenishes the creature life from its own, so i guess i made it obvious that the creatures ARE PART OF THE PLAYER itself.

well... i will give up explaining, as i allready have the feeling my lack of language made all this too un-understandable for most ....Adi will kill me when he will see it and probably he will want to rephrase it...anyway...i tried.

[Morrel]

I would rather call them Aspects instead of creatures if they are part of our character.

A long time ago I red a SF book, and what I always remember is that everyone had 'Aspects'

Parts of the 'good guys' skills and identity were saved on chips in their helmets. when somebody died that chip could be 'assimilated' by another member of the group, and accesed for advise and help when needed. So if they needed a mechanic, and their was none in the group, they asked someone who had the Aspect of one, and went to him for advise.

A soldier could have many aspects, those with the best aspects were more likely to survive...

So for me the creatures represent my 'Aspects'. they are whitin me. sacreficing an Aspect is absorbing it, making it part of me, but loosing the Aspect as a seperate process

I see the places where i can buy these Creatures as tempels, Paying the price as an offering to those who teach me to use a new Aspect (creature) within me.

Even in the world we live in we have to set up rituals : sometimes we need a defense ritual, or a ritual that drains our opponents energy, and when we're in a good mood even a healing ritual, comforting and helping other people.

Or a more agressive ritual for sports or politics ...

And when we are with friends or family, we use different Aspects of ourselfs than at work or with strangers...

While i'm writing this reply, I'm using the Aspect of my old English teacher. In fact, i rarely think of her when i'm writing, I've sacrificed her ! (don't take this the wrong way

I like this game, it makes me think ... Far better than those mind numming games that are out there.

[meiche]

I think this is a softdrink slogan, but your explanation makes me think of "Unleash the beast inside of you!"

I know I heard it somewhere (not original in anyway), but it kind of makes sense to me, with what you are talking about.

[Isaki]

It is actually very simple, I think. Each creature is the physical embodiment of one's soul; that is why it binds with that soul, and that is why players find themselves more or less attached to some creatures and bind their rituals with them.

Even better, each creature embodies a segment of the player's soul, i.e. a bit of the soul that has the same or similar traits as the creature itself.

[Phewparts]

Let me try...maybe it's like when you set up a ritual, you create your fighting character by putting in a combination of your creatures that reflects how you present yourself to your opponent.

In Tai Chi for example, you draw on your balance, strength, speed, intuition, power and recuperation abilities and many other subtle elements from your personality.

That's how I see it here. You have only one source of energy (Chi) but you choose the way you present it by utilizing the skills of each creature. You keeping trying different combinations until you are happy with it, then you change it again!

[poleritude]

So basically creatures are psionic manifestations of your own mental abilities. Instead of lifting a brick with your mind, you envision and project the image of a creature that lifts the brick. In reality there is no creature, you are lifting the brick with your spirit/mind/will, the perception of the creature is merely a focus of your psionic ability.

[awiiya]

This is part of a longer conversation. The theory referred to in this post are that there are three ways to deal with anything once you have first realized that it exists. The three things are: 1. To attack it 2. To ignore it and 3. To help it.

You asked me about creatures and how they relate to my theory about recognition the other day.

First we must collect some information. We know that creatures are like an extension of our souls, and that we can make them stronger temporarily by feeding them our energy. I believe that we can summon creatures by attaching our energy to a natural energy of the land. This is why certain creatures can only be summoned in certain places. For instance, the natural energy of Loreroot allows for the summoning of Trees, Knators, etc.

Now, if creatures are not just a representation of our soul, and an actual outside being, then we can apply the theory to them. First and foremost, if you ignore them they grow weak and frail. Second, if you send them into battles foolishly, they will die and become weaker. The best way to increase their strength and power is to send them wisely into battle against other creatures.

While it may seem counter-intuitive, because we said that attacking strengthens the other side, it actually is not. The combat world of MD is based off of attacking each other, because in this way we actually help each other grow stronger. I attack someone with my creatures, and I help them become stronger (either their creatures gain exp, or they can learn a better ritual and understand why I won). Because I have helped them, and not just blindly obliterated them, we both grow in strength. Helping others is the middle choice, and the one most beneficial, so while it may seem like we are attacking, we are actually helping.

Back to creatures. Another question arose in my mind... Why do we sacrifice creatures? I thought of the answer to this as well. If we capture creatures, and help them to become stronger, then naturally we must have a reward too. Besides gaining stats along the way, the creatures also eventually give us Vitality, Value Points, Principle Points, and other rewards when we release them from our service. As we have helped them become stronger, they help us become stronger.

Awi

[booblies]

I just hate the -xp (minus experience points) for trying but I guess you take one step back and two steps forward!~

[Kragel]

[quote name='King Manu' post='3984' date='Nov 23 2007, 05:51 AM']sort of, but more its like they are ways to express your spiritual energy. Like the energy is your voice and the creatures are the words you speak. You can train them, improve them, and make them more powerfull.

I have a probelm with the word sacrifice at the sacrifice altar, i cant find something more suitable.
Its not that you sacrifice them like 'slaughter' its more like you turn them back to you and 'asimilate' their acumulated knowledge and energy, turning them into permanent stats. This is not sacrifice but i cant find a better word for it.

The "fenth press" is good there, as it represents a material way of handling imaterial stuff. You turn your creatures into energy egs then you crush them ..thats the process of sacrificeing them.[/quote]


so in a since the creatures are like dreams or summoned spirits ? manifestations of parts of our minds and we can control them like we control waking dreams like in dream walking ...

and for a word that would work for sacrifice .... maybe
immolation

something offered to a god<offered an immolation of her hair to placate the god>

so immolate might be better cause it does not sound like you are slaughtering something

[awiiya]

Immolation implies that the creature is still being destroyed for the good of only the human, while in my opinion it is a symbiotic relationship.

So the best word might be unfettering.

Also remember that some alters are not focused around killing, at least I would argue they are not. Fenth's Beach is in my opinion not associated with death. It is a door, not an alter, or a press, or a toiler.

So the conventional killing sacrifice is not quite accurate. Something else must be taking place. Perhaps the breaking down of the creature, the conversion, if you will.

Also we give up vital, value, exploring, and action points to gain the creatures, but the loss is not permanent. Sometimes the gain, however, is. This implies that SOMETHING must have changed between the recruitment and the sacrifice. I suggest that this something is a bond as well as the teachings that occur between the creature and the human.

An interesting idea: we give up parts of ourselves, and that gain remains permanent for our creatures. When they give up parts of themselves, the gain remains permanent for us as well. We give them something that is permanent, they give us something. In a way they mirror our actions.

Awi

[Kragel]

reabsorb then thats what we do in a since they are manifestations of our minds and we reabsorb them when we are through with them along with the experiences they have seen

so why not call them reabsorbtion stations or something like that ? or assimilation /reassimilation chambers or stations

just some ideas this is better than caning and immolation at least

[awiiya]

I think you might be forgetting one very important fact. The creatures are not entirely ourselves. They do have an essence of their own as well. Here, this is from the first time someone recruits a creature:

[spoiler]The Aramory is a one of the few places on the Realm in which creatures can be found and persuaded, usually through economical means, to join your cause by binding their essence with your spirit. Thus, these creatures are not physically real, nor summoned. They become a part of you and follow your spirit wherever it may lead them. They merge with your very soul, but they still keep a part of them alive, they remain self aware and independent at all times.[/spoiler]

We bind our essence with theirs, and when we sacrifice them they are not... destroyed. They are released. And because essence takes a lot more than a press to kill it, the press separates our essences. It does not kill the creature's essence.

Awi

[Yrthilian]

In regards to the creatures, I hope I do justice in this explanation.

From what I have read above and from what I have learned in magic duel.

The creatures are a magic/skill/instinct.

This way of seeing it is that we are told that this is what this creature does and this is how it will behave. Think of it this way as you are getting older your parents tell you things to questions you have and this is how you come to see it and understand it. This is in a way the same for creatures.
So once you see a creature and you gain an understanding to what it can do you come to think of how to use the creature with those abilities and how they would work for you. Over time as your understanding of the creature come to you they get better and stronger.

Now you could argue that well then if I get another one of those creatures it should be a max level but not really as you have to learn to control more than one creature at a time and this is where you learn and understand and this is how you can then make your creatures level up. It is not that the creature is levelling up it is your skill/Instinct in getting that creature better and stronger and quicker and there for you need to concentrate less to use those creatures.

The magic you can use and control is through the creatures, you can call you creatures forth but you still need magic to get them to use their abilities and skills. Hence this is why I believe that these creatures are Magic/Skill/instinct.

[b]Magic[/b]: Is used to get your creatures to use their abilities and to heal them with your VE.

[b]Skill[/b]: Is your abilities to use more than one creature at different levels with their abilities/skills.

[b]Instinct[/b]: This is your instinct and how quick you can respond to calling forth your creatures to defend you. Also your creatures use the same instinct to defend you with their abilities.

I hope I have done a good job of explaining how I have come to understand what the creatures are

Thanks
Yrthilian
Golemus TechnoMage

[GgSeverin]

between Sword and Sheath, betwen how am I & how I wanna be there's a huge battleground (called Magic Duell by some) there is a neverending battle there.

THERE are my creatures, too many to take care of all, sometimes fighting for me, sometimes saving me time
Sometimes I hurt my self using them unwisely.

Quote:
I will win

[Fire Starter]

I've been reading this topic and naturally I found some things to agree with and some not to.

I just want to share my thoughts on the matter.
Please excuse my English, it's not as fluent as I would want it to be. If any questions arise - contact me.

Creatures are part of our selves, each one expressing different moment of desire, of knowledge, of beliefs, of achievement, of strength, of weakness, love and hate and so on. I want to include the whole process involving the crits, as I couldn't read a further development for the Rituals we put them in. You all talk about recruiting and sacrificing, but the intermediate part I saw barely developed. And without it the circle isn't complete.

When building a ritual we put effort, stronger or weaker, for achieving a certain goal. When we made the right judgement we win, certain aspects of ourselves gain strength. When we loose we see that we have misjudged the opponent and the effort and skills put to the test fail, we fail, then we go and change them.

This goes everyday in the decisions we make. And every choice involves certain level of our knowledge, power and so on. And if we don't have the required one we make wrong choices. That's why in two identical rituals, put against each other, the lower experienced one is bound to fail.

I want to hear your thought on that matter too.

[Ackshan Bemunah]

Gotta bring a question here:

 

What about the Joker?  Empty aramors?

 

Primarily the Joker/MoP...How does it appear and how does it surprise you?

 

Also the drachorn in the lair seems real enough.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Ackshan Bemunah