Character "Class"

[Burns]

offtopic, and running into the knife with open eyes:

you RP bunch won't EVER understand that , but what we do is not mindless grinding, it's training our bodies as warriors, the one form of roleplaying that's fully implemented at this point.

When we want your butt kicked, we kick your butt instead of *sending a stream of red sparkles at your face* and *burning you with a white-hot fireball*, which is totally the poorest form of RP i've seen all my life

And we don't go to Mur begging for powers, we take what we can get and make the best of it.

no need to understand that, folks, just stop jumping on the grinders and tell them that their 'weak roleplay' doesn't fit that game all the time, it's way more consistent than most of yours


on topic:

well, Mur's got a point, dynamic classes would lead to gods in the long run, but we knew that from the start...
so you need to do it either static or dynamic with taking away old spells to fit Mur's ideas, i guess...
if that topic is still alive after Mur's post, i'd suggest (as much as it hurts my spell-collectors heart) to take away the spells of players once they drop out of their class, like we lose them when we leave mp6, and give them a chance of a fresh start in another class if they wish to do so...

flame me all you want for my off-topic part, but don't forget to at least TRY to contribute to the discussion on-topic, thanks^^

reason for edit: i realized that the style was crappy because i was posting hasty and angry, the message stayed the same, but the sentences got a bit rearranged

Edited May 4, 2009 by Burns

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='King Manu' post='30219' date='May 4 2009, 06:05 PM']NO
no more fun stuff
you (some) of you are happy to find ways to avoid rules, and never realised MD is not about such rules, then rules you will have, all of you.[/quote]

I'm not against rules, but may I suggest a different set of rules?
YES
yes more fun stuff!

There must be one person that plays the game the right way and inspires the many, right?


@Burns: *sending a stream of red sparkles at your face* ... you're confusing godmodding and RP. I don't think there's a hardcore godmodding faction, since they tend to believe in the 'there can be only one' credo.

[Muratus del Mur]

by RP i dont mean spamming the chat with blue text or presenting all your intended actions as if you are watching a movie. I don't mean to increase the ridiculous and tottaly delusional actions some imagine they are doing..i am against that.

Quality RP, at least how i see it, is when a character actualy plays his role, not just pretends to do it with fency colored text. Burns, you say you train yourself as a warrior, cool, now you have a worrior character, afterall "what else to do", right? .. like that think a lot and the quality RP slowly disapears and the BS RP comes in from character that gave up long ago to fight against the "warriors" that don't realise they slowly become grinders.

I played a warrior you all know, KC was not grinding, it didn't had such a powerful army or stats as many of you do and still was a warrior but not a grinder.

[Liberty4life]

mur big problem is.... people dont know how to roleplay, and those who know dont want to teach properly

big questions in quality roleplaying are how to do something and still get noticed, for example if i want to fight against necrovians, what should i do, i should attack them on sight, but thing is i wont get noticed my intentions seams fullish so to speak, this is just one example, not much people knows how to affect masses or not even few players, and how al works thats still mystery even for ones who have been in it

so only way to do something and get noticed somehow is to flood chat in blue, in that way you are looking like you are doing something and you are noticed at least to the ones who talk in chat, if i wrote in blue code that you want to kill necros and rp in blue that you are killing it, it is better noticed than actually attacking them, still this is just one example of just one variation of problem, there are more

so question is how to properly roleplay, after all 95% of people who come in here have no clue what this means, somebody needs to teach this, if there is a guy who plays a role of..... lets say fisherman, how he should play it properly?

also i find myself the time i play as i am roleplaying good enough, but thing is i am not noticed, according to my role i should be fighting and waging war against necros or i should walk on lands of marind bell, meditate and train in some calm location in bell, seeking infos on bell and angiens as i am one of seekers, well and i do all this except first one, am i noticed? no

so murry teach us i want to learn

[Kriskah Arcanu]

I wish to learn too.

Acordingly to what Mur said as a merchant am I not supossed to fill the chat box publishing my goods.. But should I follow people around to convince them to trade with me? I trully hope not.

K

Edited May 4, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[Burns]

unfortunately enough, i haven't ever met KC online...

the warrior i was refering to is Wodin Ullr, who stood at the Road of Battles (which is kinda impressive or a newbie), and bashed me when i tried to attack him with my aramors, dealing 900 damage with one blow and taking away 0.2 of all my precious skills, and to whom people bowed when they passed, and who was listened to when he was talking, and when he shouted SILENCE, silence fell all over the screen...

that was my target, not being the stronger fighter, but being a noble man with insane combat knowledge, who fights for something good and gets respect for doing it...

i have seen all sorts of people in my first days here, but the ones who had the best reputation were dst, Wodin and MB, the strongest people all over the place, while the philosophical Khalazdad was laughed about behind his back, and the defensive, kind Nelya Setesh was standing or falling at the mercy of Wodin Ullr...
with those first impressions, where would you have chosen to start?

not that i feel like it's necessary to justify myself, i have nothing to hide, even my profile is open, but i want people to see a difference between what warriors are made of and pure 'i have nothing else to do with my time-grinders' [ok, the line is really thin...but it's there]

oh, and again i'm going faaaar off-topic... this convo might get me my next forums-warning LOL

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Well, I kinda wanted to say "Yay, King Manu posted in my thread!", but this was kind of a downer. I know that this may never be implemented, I mentioned it previously.

I guess this is kind of why I wanted this system to be entirely non stat related. I wanted a class system based off of age and questing (which should involve role playing, if quests are done properly). Of course looking at this whole idea, it does seem like it might make inner magic useless. Maybe it's unrealistic, but I think it could make the game a lot more fun, and help in role playing.

@ Intrigue:
If the system was set up similar to the spells that MP6s use you would be able to name your spells whatever you want. You could lower someone's defense by tickling them for example. This would allow people's role play to have an actual affect.

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Liberty4life' post='30237' date='May 4 2009, 08:19 PM']mur big problem is.... people dont know how to roleplay, and those who know dont want to teach properly

big questions in quality roleplaying are how to do something and still get noticed, for example if i want to fight against necrovians, what should i do, i should attack them on sight, but thing is i wont get noticed my intentions seams fullish so to speak, this is just one example, not much people knows how to affect masses or not even few players, and how al works thats still mystery even for ones who have been in it[/quote]

There are people that put hints on RP in their papers. I know I did. The one problem might be that I'm not considered as one who does know how to roleplay... but did you ever ask anyone to teach you? Only one person ever asked me anything RP related and I've responded to that within 24h.

How to get noticed? First of all, is it in your characters nature to get noticed? Not everybody can be famous.
The best place to start would be your papers though. People do read that, and if they like it, they'll put more effort into talking with you. And patience, patience and more patience. Fame spreads slowly. It spreads faster if you know famous people or do remarkable things. Note that doesn't mean being friendly with them. Having an enemy is probably the best way of getting noticed, if you manage to be on good terms with the player and have good battles with his/her character. Of course your character might end up dead because of making too many enemies... no risk, no gain? Sadly this will require a lot of ooc conversations with your 'enemy', but how else would they know how to react to your attacks?
My theory is that quality will get noticed, will be talked about, but you wont notice the noticing until one day you wonder why everybody knows your character and knows how to anticipate his/her/its behavior. Though you might want to ask someone who achieved that to verify the theory, since waiting for it is rather boring.

[Muratus del Mur]

i was hoping that factions will be sort of a teaching school for new players to get integrated intoa world of roleplay, i guess we will find out when they will be on.

I can't teach you how to RP, i am not a "professional roleplayer", there isnt such a thing. In fact i program more games than i play. Look at those that you learned how to respect and admire in MD, how did they do it, did they spam the chat or crushed everybody? You want to move masses to make yourself heared, you can do that by screaming (not good) or by making the others remember you and connect your name with something. If that thing its a bad thing it wont last long (bad advertising is not good advertising in md), if its a good thing it will bring you further.

For example the market... i hope i wont offend anybody when i will say that i hardly knew of "Kriskah Arcanu" untill this event, yet there are "ancient" players that didnt acomplished so much in over a year of playing.

There isnt a predefined way of advancing and getting better at RP. You could get better only within your group of people and slowly be remarked outside that group, thats a good place to start.

I started a side role as a character that none of you know who it is. I am trying to see how dificult is to be noted for a regular player. Its quite dificult, people are rude, ignore you, you could turn the world upside down and they would still treat you as if you are nothing. The experiment is progressing well, i got some good things done allready, without abusing anything in any way, but its very hard.

Most of you that write here are allready popular and have some reputation, not extraordinary but there is, and the reputation is what counts,...the number of people that know you...so i think you are doing quite well.

maybe the pwr/rpc promotions are not a good thing, they make people feel as if there is something more out there that they cant yet do... but how else should i do ....

[dst]

Hmm..bad publicity? I think I have it and still manage to survive and to get noticed. Or am I wrong? O_O

[Liberty4life]

yea i see it, well now i see, that i do my part as intended, i am not supposed to be noticed much on that part which i do, and yes back then i was asking around, observing and stuff, but somehow always some questions got unanswered, still people count unnoticed roleplaying as bad roleplaying as far as i can see it, or maybe it is just becoz i am one of those who seek and learn in secrecy and keep things in theirs group

and this part which is supposed to be as noticed reaction with enemy... hmm interesting thing how you describe it kafuuka, more things now have sense to me, i wanted to ask something more about how to do it but i forgot it right now

also i am proud that i had like 10-15 days when i became pwr and got writer medal for my story its miracle how i achieve it that early , i guess writing good story and doing things according to principals and values i presented in story i got it, and now i have an idea on something new i will do and with it expand my roleplaying much much more in this realm

edit: kafuuka, ya said about doing remarkable things... well thing is i have remarkable ideas i dont know how to make them reality, how to materialize them, on many things i have idea, same problem bumps up, HOW? how to achieve it, maybe there is also a fear of failure in work, or something

for example, seekers have been trying in past to contact angiens, and we failed, even now if lets say i know what is needed to achieve it, question is how to do, i mean its worthless if you do it and nobody sees you and then nothing happens, if you get what i am talking about

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

@Lib - I help people learn how to RolePlay if they ask me. I also have an entire section in my papers dedicated to learning how to role play. In addition to that I help people with their backstories. It just requires someone to ask, otherwise I don't know you want help. If I see someone stuggling who obviously wants to do something, I will often also take the time to go and find them, interact with them and then see if they need a helping hand. I take hours of time personally helping people with these things...so you might not see it, but at least one person does help with this stuff

Z

[Liberty4life]

just give me an answer to last paragraph in my post before this one, and i know it all

[Guybrush Threepwood]

This has gotten really off topic, but hey, as long as Mur started it it's fine right? Though perhaps someone should open a new topic.

I know before you can do any of Calyx's quests you are required to do a quest that involved developing your role. She hasn't been around lately though, so I don't know exactly how it works. The options for role play help are there, and I am equally happy to help anyone (though I'm new, so I may not be the one to ask).


Completely off topic and out of character:
*giggles like a school girl* Did Mur just call me popular? *faints*

EDIT: (I really have no idea where to put this, people told me to talk to Junior, but he's not on and Mur mentioned wanting to have someone told right away, but the second or third link in the Free credits list seems to be broken.)

[color="#0000FF"]no worries junior should be well aware about it, anyway i pmed him just to be sure no worries (lib)[/color]

Edited May 4, 2009 by Liberty4life

[Grido]

Mainly offtopic, i apologise

@Guy, yeah Jun's been told quite a few times now i think
[quote name='Mur']I started a side role as a character that none of you know who it is. I am trying to see how dificult is to be noted for a regular player. Its quite dificult, people are rude, ignore you, you could turn the world upside down and they would still treat you as if you are nothing. The experiment is progressing well, i got some good things done allready, without abusing anything in any way, but its very hard.[/quote]Muranoia levels increase......

@Lib, my suggestion to you would be to go to a public place, steer the conversation onto the Angiens, this isnt too hard to do i dont think, and then outline what you want to do. Repeat this several times to get it to go into peoples heads and also so people know you're serious about it. or arange a time and place in advance, for whatever it is that you plan to do, that way you'll get people gathered to listen to you, you could do this by posting, say a week in advance on the forum about it, contact someone who controls the announcement box, to put something there about it also. not sure what else i can suggest.
also, whilst it hasnt happened much, i also help people with their roleplay, i just dont make it too public, cos it doesnt need to be.. so like Z said the people are there if someone looks for them.

/wonders if he's met the disguised Mur

[pamplemousse]

Our stories define us in this Realm.

The Archivists are taking a more active role is helping others in this world express and learn about themselves. We seek to enlighten everyone about who it is that walks the world of MD. (As some of this information can be found in my Quest page, it may look familiar to some of you.)

We can promote roles and roleplaying by aiding those who seek our assistance in writing their papers. We cover all the papers released: tales about who you are and where you came from, your dislikes, your preferred form of fighting, or anything else.

While these are not lessons in how one roleplays, they can go hand in hand, complementing each as needed. Knowing more about yourself can help others more know about you.

If you wish to learn more about how to express yourself or just want someone to look over what you already have created to offer edits or suggestions, please look for any Archivist. We are dedicated to helping everyone in the realm who feels the need for it.

We might not have the answers to all your questions, but together, we may be able help you develop the solutions yourself.

[stormrunner]

hmm, on the "classes" here's a thought what is pwr if not something like a totally custom class for just you based on your roleplay and effort

and if pwr is that wouldn't that make RPC a totally custom prestige class(which should be far rarer then nomal classes) for just you based on your roleplay and effort

just a thought

[Nex]

[quote name='King Manu' post='30219' date='May 4 2009, 06:05 PM']I initialy had the foolish ideea that if i give all of you lots of tools to play with and build your role you will use then creatively and for improving , changing, adapting a role. However, some of you, i wont say just dst and the celebrity grinders, showed me that this is impossible. A lot of you will abuse thse tools without even realising its an abuse, and maybe its not an abuse.
[....]
Character classes ? u must be joking ... so what i said so...
yes its a very very cool idea, and could turn md into a much more fun place allowing peope to actualy do their role....
[....]
NO
no more fun stuff[/quote]
[quote name='Burns' post='30226' date='May 4 2009, 07:16 PM']well, Mur's got a point, dynamic classes would lead to gods in the long run, but we knew that from the start...[/quote]
i beg to differ. if the implementation of classes would inevitably lead to god-chars then it would be by failure of design. as i originally understood it, classes should be mainly a [b]flavour[/b] mechanic, making rp and battles more [b]interesting[/b]. so why should having a dynamic system make some chars overpowered in the long run?
i think it could actually achieve the opposite, with each new, advanced class providing a new challenge/ limitation for those uber-powerful characters. guybrush and burns have already made some good suggestions how to balance the strenghts of dynamic class-system. so here is my addition: who said having played multiple classes should make you more powerful? it should make for a more interesting experience! new strenghts and abilities can and should be balanced with new limitations and weaknesses. those who want to play a jack/jill-of-all-trades will not only gain a bit of each classes benefits, but maybe some of their weaknesses as well. it would not be about raw power but versatility.

i have to say that dumping a new and great idea that would enrich the game and potentially make it more interesting to roleplayers [u]and[/u] fighters alike just because it could be abused, is a big waste.
yes, it may be impossible to prevent that some sly spade would find ways to bend the system so they gain an unfair advantage. things could always be tweaked later if that happens.
but should the mere [i]danger[/i] of that happening prevent such a great idea from being realised? i'd say NO.

[edit: corrected some stupid typos]

Edited May 5, 2009 by Nex

[Burns]

ohh... that sounds kinda good, V...

you mean extra weaknesses that influence those who try to be jack-of-all-trades (nice word by the way, i guess i'll remember that^^) get soem heavy, lasting drawbacks?

like... hum...
say you enter a healer-class, you get a longer fighting-cooldown (say 15 minutes), and after leaving the healer-class and keeping the spells you still have the longer cooldown (say 12 minutes? or maybe more?)...

and when you then enter the fighter-class and get an ability, mabye even a passive ability, if you get what i mean, that lowers your cooldown, it will still be influenced by the healer's extra-cooldown?
and for the gains of the warrior, you lose spell-casting abilities and get lowered spell-rates or something?
which then stick with you...

and if you try to get all the spells from everywhere, you also get all the drawbacks from everywhere and carry them with you all your accounts life?

needs some working about, but seems totally cool... congrats, V, i guess you saved the idea ^^

[Muratus del Mur]

ok, i will put in play a RP dedicated feature, i will try to make it as non harmfull as possible, lets see what the damage will be.

back to coding

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Well Mur, I know you previously stated that you don't want people thinking RPC and PWR is the "next step". Well, I guess I think that most people consider it that way because they get spells.

You had asked what other way you could do things, and this is only a suggestion, but if you integrated a class system in which people could gain spells (the heck with stats if you don't want it to involve those, it's just more complicated), but the requirement for spells was a "star point" or who the heck cares, that is given out by RPCs to people who advance their role well in MD. As stormrunner mentioned, PWR is kind of like a class for those who have advanced their roles. So, I guess this would just allow people to gain spells appropriate for their roles in a way that would not require you to program abilities for everyone every time you feel that they are doing something interesting in the game. You could tell the RPCs to make it as difficult to gain these as you like. You could even make it so that you are the only one who can give them out. Really, it's just an idea that would perhaps take a bit of attention off of becoming a RPC or PWR or whatever, and save some programming effort in the long run.