Small contest

[Kriskah Arcanu]

Ok, first of all: [b]this is just an idea[/b]. I know it needs a lot of work.

Since RPCs and many other veterans frequently encourage new players to write about them selves on their papers, I was considering we might reward new players who have devoted some time to develop an interesting roll playing character.
I don’t know yet what parameters we should use. I don’t consider myself a good judge on that, but I know this could be a motivating contest for newcomers to the Realm.

So, first I would like to know if you consider this to be a good idea.
In case you do:
1. we might need a few parameters so we can evaluate them and
2. we will definitely need a few judges too.

I was thinking the newcomers have to be at least 15 days old and no more then 90 days old.

The prizes I would offer are from the Market funds
First Place: A pimped grassan + 10 MDS
Second Place: 10 MDS
Third Place: 5 MDS

K

Edited June 1, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[cryxus]

i propose the format be the format mur asked about during the festival, that way they're set up for next festival

and is this for personal pages exclusively, or all of them collectively?

[stormrunner]

I like this idea, since I am one of those older players who tells the newbies to go get their papers both in the chat and my own papers

if I can help in any way. come poke me and ask

Edited June 1, 2009 by stormrunner

[Prince Marvolo]

Awesome Idea in my opinion... So... If you need help

[Chewett]

Isnt this just a step in between pwr and Rpc?

not that that is a bad thing.

Several problems i see. Quality of english will be key in addition to how you play your role. Also what do you propose to do about alts? It would be very easy to create an alt and ship the reward back to my main. Also how do you propose to judge this? is it in addition to the rpc's that Mur makes and the rewards that he gives out?

This isnt a criticizm but some ideas for you to consider

[Kriskah Arcanu]

[quote name='Chewett' post='32508' date='Jun 1 2009, 05:19 AM']Isnt this just a step in between pwr and Rpc?

not that that is a bad thing.

Several problems i see. Quality of english will be key in addition to how you play your role. Also what do you propose to do about alts? It would be very easy to create an alt and ship the reward back to my main. Also how do you propose to judge this? is it in addition to the rpc's that Mur makes and the rewards that he gives out?

This isnt a criticizm but some ideas for you to consider[/quote]

Yes, ideed alts are an issue, English too. Anyway that will be a task for the judges, they have to be very carefull about that.
Other thing, the vote must be public so veterans don't vote for their adepts, the contest shouldnt be a way to gaing adepts either.
Does Mur follow parameters to give rewards?

The idea is to create just a few so the new players can prepare their papers.

I don't know you tell me.... these are just a few thoughts.

To evaluate personal papers (Each level between 1-5 points) :

1. Character story (origins)
2. Character developement (projections)
3. Character relation within the MD worls and its inhabitants

Didnt think too much about this, the judges should build the parameters not me

cryxus, stormrunner, marv would you like to be judges?

K

Edited June 1, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[dst]

There is already an award for best papers. The annual award. It would be quite redundant if you ask me.

[Kriskah Arcanu]

[quote name='dst' post='32524' date='Jun 1 2009, 11:30 AM']There is already an award for best papers. The annual award. It would be quite redundant if you ask me.[/quote]

Redundant? maybe it is... I wouldn't know, I am kinda newbee too.
This is a mostly an idea to get newbees interested on developing a character and also to get the community a bit more involved on their firsts steps on the Realm. If this event has taken place it had to be before I arrived to MD.

K

[Kafuuka]

Quality of English: everybody is allowed to have someone help them if they think their English isn't good enough. Besides, the game is in English and it never hurt anyone to learn a second language (or their first one...).

Alts: it takes a lot of work to make an original character and write a background story. This is true even more if you are an adept writer because you will never be satisfied with your work. "For every sentence I kept, I have thrown away at least one page of writing." (don't remember which writer said that)
No matter how good you think you are, there are no guarantees to win and there aren't any retries either. And there is a chance people will notice your style. The only reason people will try it against all odds, would be that they have too many active days to participate and too much time. I'd propose a side contest with a smaller reward, for older players/alts... but it'd be silly to have good character designs go to waste after the contest is over.

Criteria:
the story/writing - this one is obvious.
the layout - this would favor html knowing people, but once again, asking assistance is allowed. and there are a lot of things one could do wrong even without accessing the html, eg. all CAPS would give you minus infinity points.
character design - how balanced are powers and flaws, how in tune is it with MD?

I also suggest having the candidates sign up for this and have them idle in a designated place, especially if you use a small amount of judges. Timezones make it hard to read everybody's papers.

[Watcher]

This is an interesting idea, Kriskah Arcanu.
Consider the following:

[i]Hold the contest every six to eight weeks.[/i]
This may mean lowering the awarded sums or changing the award itself. However, this would give new people incentive to become creative and work toward integrating themselves into the world in which we play.

[i]Established characters as judges who are not RPCs.[/i]
There are many who are very active in this world, who are well known, and who play their characters exceedingly well. These are the people who you would want to judge the stories and papers of others. I would suggest staying away from those who have been established as RPCs only because they have other duties to which they are to be devoting their time.
Characters such as Keith Moon, Awiiya, Innocence, Willem Redbeard, and Firsanthalas are the some of the best. These would be the kinds of people to approach to judge others.

[i]Consider multiple forms of entry.[/i]
One should be able to nominate him or herself to you or to the judges, whoever they may be. However, others should also be able to submit another's name for this contest.

[i]Public displays.[/i]
Those who have been nominated for this contest should have portions, if not all, of their papers viewable by the public. This could be having everything displayed on their personal page or opening a topic on the forum that would allow them to post something about themselves along with selected sections of their papers. A limit would be called for, however, as you would not want all contestants to use 50,000 or more characters. In this case, a forum post should be short and simple.
Paper length, of course, would be up to the discretion of the individual.

[i]Multiple criteria for judging.[/i]
As you have already noted, there should be several categories to aid in the selection of a winner. Consider participation in the world as one. This might discourage alternate accounts, though nothing is certain. If one has to be active in the world to be considered for this award, it would reduce the likelihood of someone creating an interesting story and then sitting around in a sanctuary, hoping to get noticed.
Otherwise, you have already mentioned several other criteria which should be evaluated.


Your idea has merit. Follow through with it.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Kafuuka' post='32527' date='Jun 1 2009, 05:57 PM']Alts: it takes a lot of work to make an original character and write a background story. This is true even more if you are an adept writer because you will never be satisfied with your work. "For every sentence I kept, I have thrown away at least one page of writing." (don't remember which writer said that)
No matter how good you think you are, there are no guarantees to win and there aren't any retries either. And there is a chance people will notice your style. The only reason people will try it against all odds, would be that they have too many active days to participate and too much time. I'd propose a side contest with a smaller reward, for older players/alts... but it'd be silly to have good character designs go to waste after the contest is over.[/quote]

If i am going to speak for myself then i would most definately make an alt and Rp him. This would be mainly for the reward. But because i rarely Rp as Chewett and none of you have found out some of my better alts (no not Chewett the Noob) then i would say i would be able to give a good go at this competition

[quote name='Kafuuka' post='32527' date='Jun 1 2009, 05:57 PM']I also suggest having the candidates sign up for this and have them idle in a designated place, especially if you use a small amount of judges. Timezones make it hard to read everybody's papers.[/quote]

Perhaps they could not blank their personal page? Then they would be able to see it on their profile?

[quote name='Watcher' post='32528' date='Jun 1 2009, 06:04 PM'][i]Hold the contest every six to eight weeks.[/i]
This may mean lowering the awarded sums or changing the award itself. However, this would give new people incentive to become creative and work toward integrating themselves into the world in which we play.[/quote]

Would it become too devauled if it was this often? Then many people would get an award. How long can this go on for? It would give me much more chance to win or place.

[quote name='Watcher' post='32528' date='Jun 1 2009, 06:04 PM'][i]Established characters as judges who are not RPCs.[/i]
There are many who are very active in this world, who are well known, and who play their characters exceedingly well. These are the people who you would want to judge the stories and papers of others. I would suggest staying away from those who have been established as RPCs only because they have other duties to which they are to be devoting their time.
Characters such as Keith Moon, Awiiya, Innocence, Willem Redbeard, and Firsanthalas are the some of the best. These would be the kinds of people to approach to judge others.[/quote]

Im sure (and i only speak of my knowing some rpcs) that some of them would like to judge a contest like this. Some of the best role players are rpcs. But not all of the rpcs are good roleplayers *cough* me *cough*

[quote name='Watcher' post='32528' date='Jun 1 2009, 06:04 PM'][i]Public displays.[/i]
Those who have been nominated for this contest should have portions, if not all, of their papers viewable by the public. This could be having everything displayed on their personal page or opening a topic on the forum that would allow them to post something about themselves along with selected sections of their papers. A limit would be called for, however, as you would not want all contestants to use 50,000 or more characters. In this case, a forum post should be short and simple.
Paper length, of course, would be up to the discretion of the individual.[/quote]

Again i say that all their papers should be on public displey on their public page. It would be so much easier to get rid of the problem of timezones.

[quote name='Watcher' post='32528' date='Jun 1 2009, 06:04 PM'][i]Multiple criteria for judging.[/i]
As you have already noted, there should be several categories to aid in the selection of a winner. Consider participation in the world as one. This might discourage alternate accounts, though nothing is certain. If one has to be active in the world to be considered for this award, it would reduce the likelihood of someone creating an interesting story and then sitting around in a sanctuary, hoping to get noticed.
Otherwise, you have already mentioned several other criteria which should be evaluated.[/quote]

It wouldnt discourage a person who wants the reward really. only some of the people who would like it. Have you even seen Chewett in game? Really? I dont really play Chewett as i prefere obscurity. Its intresting to see how people treat a nobody.

BTW: if you are trying to work out my alts i use proxies. Most of them are from the US but at least one is from romania

[Prince Marvolo]

Hmm, Alts are indeed a problem...

MAybe the judges could nominate pple, and then let the IP be tracked
(Ok, I dont know anything of computers so I dont know if it should work actually...)

The other part... I agree with Chewy...

[lightsage]

It wouldn't, you can always use proxies and bounce off several of them... But I guess you should count on people being honest. Also I think design should be one of the criteria and not just the content of the page (I for one put quite some effort into the design of light's pages, EG the comments on self)

[Kriskah Arcanu]

[quote name='Chewett' post='32529' date='Jun 1 2009, 12:46 PM']BTW: if you are trying to work out my alts i use proxies. Most of them are from the US but at least one is from romania [/quote]

Chewett you sound so proud of your self :lol:

Thanks for your comments. :good:
Indeed Watcher, I was considering asking non RCPs to be judges too. I don't know if this contest can be repeted, we have to see how it works first. Maybe Chewett will win all the prizes and crush our system.
I think your criteria and Kafuuka's are well thought. I am going to start sending a few PMs as soon as I get out of storymode. Then we'll see if people is interested or not.

I believe this should be carry out via forum so we all learn about this evaluation. I do consider my self quite an ignorant on the roll playing and personal papers thingy.

K

ps. We can also add a few extra medals: humor, complexity and... hmm originality?... this medals will have nothing to do with the judge evaluation, they can be just a chance for everyone to vote for them, to get the community involved.

[Kafuuka]

Do we really care that much about the alts? This is a contest of creativity and you only get to enter a character into it once. If it were to be a periodic thing (imo 75 days would make sense then since it is 15 to 90 days old characters), you could enter with alts multiple times, but every entrance would be a new story and character, ie a new creation. Also, being a veteran player does not offer much benefit to character creation, unless you want to make it obvious that you played the game for a long time by incorporating a huge amount of lore. In HC I can see the clear advantages of using alts, but in this contest?

Can we do something against alts? Every counter measure will lead to people being even more sneaky and clever. IP's can be concealed, styles can be changed or hidden. It does make things harder. I'd love to enter the competition and see how far I get, but I wouldn't do it for the reward, considering the amount of effort it would take me and the amount of contestants if older players were allowed too. If we must take actions against alts, it will be by threatening with penalties. The chances of discovery might not be that high, but they are larger than zero and if there is a lot of entrants, the chances of winning aren't that high to justify the risk.

The public profile would help a lot for the timezone thing, but it would not for 'participation in the game'. That criterium would be very important, if it were something easily measured. It would also increase the amount of effort a player would have to put into a character, which does counteract alt use. It seems however rather impractical.

Chewett: you might be able to fool me and have the time and intent to win the contest, but for every person that meets those conditions, there will be a lot of people that don't. And even if there were, they'd have to compete with each other. imo The sad part would be that the alts' stories are wasted if those characters are abandoned after the contest. However, if they are maintained and cared for, although not furthering the goal of this contest, it will still benefit MD.

[Prince Marvolo]

Alts will always be a problem...
In this contest, Heads... etc...

And there is nothing to do to it...

[Watcher]

To lower the probability of alternates, lower the value of the prizes given. Do not give out creatures. Do not give out large amounts of silver. Make the awards of value only to those who are new and who would appreciate some kind of recognition.

Is there a completely flawless way to eliminate the introduction of alternates into any kind of contest here? Of course not. That will not be a reality. However, if one were to make the rewards less appealing to those who have been here for a long time, then the likelihood of alternates being entered lowers.
It's not exactly fair to those who work hard and who are new, but experience and history have shown that there are always those who will bend the rules until they break 'just because they can.' It is unfortunate, but it is also true.

Also, with the contribution/activity aspect as part of the criterion, there will be a benefit to the world as a whole, just as Kafuuka has stated. If someone who has been here for a long time really wishes to win this contest just for the meager prizes, then there is little to stop them. Yet, with as much time as effort as it would take to do well, then it is possible they will learn something in the process, as well.



As for everything stated in my previous post, they were something to consider. If the interval is too short, lengthen it. They are suggestions and ideas, not guidelines.
Also, as far as RPCs are concerned: [i]some[/i] of them are capable of role play, and of those who can, the majority of these would be the newest ones. However, they should focus on other things, such as their own roles, their quests, and keeping the world an interesting place. Asking them to take on more responsibilities would be unfair to them and to others who are capable of doing just as well or better than they.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Kriskah Arcanu' post='32532' date='Jun 1 2009, 07:14 PM']Chewett you sound so proud of your self :lol:[/quote]

I do not want people from the UK to be accused of being a "chewett alt" That is because being called a chewett will be an insult to their good character.

[quote name='Kafuuka' post='32534' date='Jun 1 2009, 07:48 PM']Chewett: you might be able to fool me and have the time and intent to win the contest, but for every person that meets those conditions, there will be a lot of people that don't. And even if there were, they'd have to compete with each other. imo The sad part would be that the alts' stories are wasted if those characters are abandoned after the contest. However, if they are maintained and cared for, although not furthering the goal of this contest, it will still benefit MD.[/quote]

hmm now you mention it i dont have the time. But the same thing applies. If i did have the time ...

And if i can do it anyone can. it depends on the rewards. If they are big enough people will try. There will need to be balance between good prizes and things that are easily attainable.

Also most people in that age range still learning the game. Unless they specifically know about the competition and/or learn to make a role then it will be poorly entered. Most people in their age range now barely know how to properly fight. It will be a big change if you can Make roleplayers of these new players but i will most definately encourage you.

[Kriskah Arcanu]

[quote name='Watcher' post='32536' date='Jun 1 2009, 02:11 PM']To lower the probability of alternates, lower the value of the prizes given. Do not give out creatures. Do not give out large amounts of silver. Make the awards of value only to those who are new and who would appreciate some kind of recognition.
Is there a completely flawless way to eliminate the introduction of alternates into any kind of contest here? Of course not. That will not be a reality. However, if one were to make the rewards less appealing to those who have been here for a long time, then the likelihood of alternates being entered lowers.
Also, with the contribution/activity aspect as part of the criterion, there will be a benefit to the world as a whole, just as Kafuuka has stated. If someone who has been here for a long time really wishes to win this contest just for the meager prizes, then there is little to stop them. Yet, with as much time as effort as it would take to do well, then it is possible they will learn something in the process, as well.[/quote]

10 coins and a pimped grassan will enocourage an older player to create an alter to enter the contest? I really don't think so, but I could be wrong. Anyway, I trust the judges to be carefull enough to detect cheaters.
We'll see if people are interested first, because we'll need the judges to commit on reading many papers and be objective critics. They will be the ones in charge of the contest (which also means to create and follow some evaluation parameters)
I will start to pm a few to see if they can take that responsability.
Then we may start promoting the contest and find the right candidats for the competition.

K

Edited June 1, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[awiiya]

If you really want to make sure that there is no incentive for alts, make the reward a creature that is non-transferable. So, it wouldn't even have a CTC, and therefore it couldn't be transferred to the main.

The silver problem is inevitable, but 10 silver is not, in my opinion, enough to consider cheating.

But I suppose people have cheated for significantly less, so I could be wrong.

Kriskah contacted me, and I would be happy to be a judge in the contest, although I would not be willing to lead it.

Awi

[Chewett]

1. No ctc would be a burden for both the player and Mur since that would require another colmn and also more code. Slowing down the database.

2. It all really depends on what the prise if and how often the contest goes on for. To an older player a pimped and 10 coins wouldnt be much but for a new player who is over the requirements it may be an incentive.

3. as a point on 1. i think that you should try and get this going without the help or Mur. As an example of you doing something without him. If the first contest can be done without Mur then all the rest can. There have been several things where when Mur hasnt had a hand in them they have flopped.

[Kafuuka]

Whatever is a good reward for a 90 day old player will still be one for the 91s, so there is no perfect solution, but how about this:
On average the winners should be 52,5 days old and at that stage an aged elemental seems nice to me, while not worth the trouble for old players.

[Kriskah Arcanu]

Meet the judges!!

Intrigue
WillemRedbeard
Awiiya
Kafuuka

They will be incharge of the contest now. I step a side.

Stormrunner, Marvolo, Cryxus and others will be helping them with a bit of publicity since this completly unknow they will need all the community to get involved.

K

Edited June 2, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu

[Kafuuka]

[topic="4223"]You can sign up in this thread now.[/topic]
Of course most people that are allowed to participate wont be reading the forum... we'll be spamming in game a bit then.