I just received this PM from Granos:

Drachorn
I felt that I had to let you know that it was the ctc to your drac I used on the Jacoand fiasco. When I asked you for the ctc fragment to check the drac info at the angiens ctc checker I kept that code and gave it to Jacoand as proof that I had a drac. I am extremely annoyed by these turns of events and will see to rectifying this situation and blatant abuse of powers by admins.
-Granos

I just found out from Granos that the partial CTC code he gave Jaco was from my GG Dracorn and after checking my creature I found out that my Dracorn has been taken from me by Mur.

Before I say anything else, I want it clear that I never gave Granos the complete CTC for my creature and without that there is no way he or anyone else (except Mur) could have stolen my drachorn from me. Since I am the person who coded the Anginen Detector at the Angiens Shrine, I have personal knowledge of what exactly it tells you and what is safe to give out which is why I have never refused a request for a partial CTC when people have asked me for one. The whole point of the MDscript function mds_is_ctc is so that it is possible for people to check what creature someone has before they do a trade or to prove you actually do have the creature you claim to.

There are several things SOOOO wrong with this whole situation.

1) Even though Granos used my creature partial CTC to sucker Jacoand into thinking Granos had a drachorn, when Jacoand checked the info in the CTC checker it clearly shows right at the top the userid of the actual owner. Clearly Jacoand didn't actually bother to check the info provided by the CTC checker script and if he had he never would have fallen for such an obvious and blatant scam.

2) I have given out partial CTCs for I don't know how many of my creatures to people who were having trouble getting the CTC checker to work (including the partial CTCs to a Doppelganger, a wind dragon, rusties, reindrachs and other less rare creartures). Should I expect Mur to steal those creatures from me as well? I understand the saying "No good deed goes unpunished", but I am really getting tired of being punished for helping others.

3) At the top of my CTC Checker script it clearly says:

*Copy from "CTC" to "MDC", not the entire code

which was supposed to protect people from giving out complete CTCs as Mur stated when this script code was first released. If this isn't the case and people are going to be punished for giving out partial CTCs, then this needs to be clear both why and what is acceptable to share or not share.

4) I do not know Jacoand and I have never interracted with him, but having been forced to look at what actually transpired with Granos, it is clear that Jacoand was either being very greedy and didn't bother to check the info at his disposal, or Jacoand is not very intelligent and shouldn't be trying to get something (dracorn) for nothing (pass papers). Either way this situation should be a good lesson for others to not be greedy and if you aren't that intelligent have someone who is help you.


I can understand Jacoand's frustration, it is amazing how much getting screwed over here in MD can really piss you off. And I haven't been this pissed off since I found out that last year that simplyzero (shoeps the then game manager) threatened the RPCs if they helped me set clickables or worked with me on getting my quests set up.


I have to admit that recently I have really enjoyed adding interesting new things to MD such as the MD Creature Card Game Yrthilian and I just released this week, and the slew of puzzles and quests I have created or helped develop over the last few months/year. But I am tired of being abused by people of authority in MD particularly in this instance by Mur himself.


I find it totally unacceptable that my oldest dracorn gets reset to an egg and has two transfers of age taken off it.


AND I have never asked Mur for a single special request. I think it is time.


I would like to request that my dracorn be restored to its pre-stolen status and that I be given one Boon from Mur.


I would also like to hear what the MD community feels about this situation. I would hate for this to be the final straw that breaks me, but I have to honestly admit that I am seriously unhappy at the moment. If I am so far out of touch with reality and others agree with what happened in this situation, that is important for me to know.


Cutler

"Drach will be given back by CTC if requested by owner, to suffer age penalty cost [b]for giving out the ctc of a personal creature to someone else.[/b]"

You didn't give out the full CTC, only the identifier, so the punishment should be rescinded.


Jaco overlooking the owner name surprises me.

Edited February 28, 201016 yr by apophys

Jaco most likely was overly excited that he was about to get a drachorn that he so extremely wanted therefore not checking the user ID.

This is a topic that should be in MD Court forums, please use the appropiate forums when you post something, stop using general stuff like a desk and we admins and mods the sorters. If you (all of you who do this) will continue and post without looking at the forums and read at least what they are about, (considering MD Court title is not a suggestive one...) measures will start to be taken.


Topic moved to MD Court forums in Lawyer's Office, Cutler, please read what this forum is about and read what general stuff is about.

[quote name='cutler121' date='28 February 2010 - 03:40 AM' timestamp='1267324813' post='55444']
1) Even though Granos used my creature partial CTC to sucker Jacoand into thinking Granos had a drachorn, when Jacoand checked the info in the CTC checker it clearly shows right at the top the userid of the actual owner. Clearly Jacoand didn't actually bother to check the info provided by the CTC checker script and if he had he never would have fallen for such an obvious and blatant scam. [/quote]
If it gives the userId in number form and not a name, it is not as explicit information as you might think it is. Afaik uid and name are not linked through the forum either, so it is plausible Jacoand didn't have the necessary pieces. (No it isn't hard to get them, although it used to be easier than it is now and thus I suspect it's supposed to be a spoiler.)

[quote]4) I do not know Jacoand and I have never interracted with him, but having been forced to look at what actually transpired with Granos, it is clear that Jacoand was either being very greedy and didn't bother to check the info at his disposal, or Jacoand is not very intelligent and shouldn't be trying to get something (dracorn) for nothing (pass papers). Either way this situation should be a good lesson for others to not be greedy and if you aren't that intelligent have someone who is help you. [/quote]
The pass papers are not nothing. Sure he got them for free, but you actually get everything for free in the game except WP and credits (although you can vote for them). eg. For someone who has 30 creature slots but only uses 25 to train creatures, the extra 5 are free to age free creatures until worth something.
And if things are stolen with the victim's greed as a motive, there should be no profit for the 'punisher'. I can't say what would have happened if Granos had given away the papers to someone for free (and not to a friend's alt), but I think the RP and greed arguments would have been far more acceptable; everybody likes Robin Hood.

[quote name='Kafuuka' date='28 February 2010 - 10:59 AM' timestamp='1267354792' post='55467']
If it gives the userId in number form and not a name, it is not as explicit information as you might think it is. Afaik uid and name are not linked through the forum either, so it is plausible Jacoand didn't have the necessary pieces. (No it isn't hard to get them, although it used to be easier than it is now and thus I suspect it's supposed to be a spoiler.)[/quote]

The information was there for him to use and the userid is at the top of every in game PM you receive so it is hardly a spoiler.


SO I take it from your negative comments Kafuuka that you agree that I was treated fairly?


The point is I feel that I was treated unjustly (again) and getting punished for helping people (in my opinion) is not what MD should be about. Unfortunately, it does seem that MD is becoming more and more about punishing people (just for the sake of it). I would love to be proven wrong.


Cutler

Your drach was used in a criminal action. Thats why it was confiscated in the first place. To avoid moving it around with the purpose of hiding evidence.

It disturbes me that you said I was abusing you. First of all I am not "an" admin, and since there was no other "admin" involved in the case, I assume you were referring me.

I waited to see a reaction.I will consider the fact that the ctc could have been given partially without the purpose of being used in a scam.

[quote name='cutler121' date='28 February 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1267356469' post='55468']The information was there for him to use and the userid is at the top of every in game PM you receive so it is hardly a spoiler. [/quote]
But they used the forum, not pm's, and hiding things in plain sight is often a good method.

[quote]SO I take it from your negative comments Kafuuka that you agree that I was treated fairly? [/quote]
I never said that. I just like to argue and saw some statements that you reused, which I consider flawed. Both arguments I commented on have little to do with your case, since they question something which has been answered already: "Was Granos' deed acceptable?" Apparently not.
I think argument 3 is valid and should be enough to make a case. [s]There's two options, either it was misstated and giving out partial ctc's is criminal or[/s] it was assumed that you gave the whole ctc. An assumption easily made, just like you assumed that Jacoand knew what a uid is and how to convert it into a name. (@Jacoand: don't screw this up and say you did knew it [img]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/public/style_emoticons//cool.gif[/img] )

[quote]The point is I feel that I was treated unjustly (again) and getting punished for helping people (in my opinion) is not what MD should be about. Unfortunately, it does seem that MD is becoming more and more about punishing people (just for the sake of it). I would love to be proven wrong.[/quote]
Whatever you are referring to with the '(again)' has nothing logical to do with this case. Emotionally it does, but leading away from your main argument into gray territory is not something I would advise.

*edit: damn... I type slower than a tomato it seems...*
@Mur: If you look at his reaction towards my earlier post, I don't think you should take it personally. There's an entire topic about lawyers and this topic kinda illustrates why it's a good idea to consult someone before posting things.

Edited February 28, 201016 yr by Kafuuka

Sorry I have never actually noticed the ID was in the top of messages, I didnt really think I had a way to check it.
I really do hope you get your creature back without any age penalty due to the fact it seems you had nothing to due with the scam.

Edit: If there is another way to check ID I would like to know it, if it isnt a spoiler.

[color=purple]Message sent to him, no need to reply regarding determining player ID in this thread - Grido[/color]

Edited February 28, 201016 yr by Grido

REALLY? Cutler is the true victim in this mess. He is an asset to OUR community. Let's look at this another way. If Cutlers car was stolen (by Granos or Jaco...it does not matter really), his insurance would cover any damage (in this case Mur is the insurance), and he would recieve his vehicle back in the same condition before it was taken.

Let's not continue to abuse the victim.

Since I didn't ask for this to be a trial and it is an emotional issue not a law one (which it seems to have been turned into) I will shut up.

I won't post more on this subject just wait to see how it is resolved and how the MD community feels about what has transpired.

Cutler

My personal opinion well since this isn't a case (at least yet) I can take a very neutral approach to this. Well using a CTC of another creature does consequence the individual who holds the actual creature it is important to understand that doing this does and has attack another individual.

Now saying you do have a case would in fact be a truth as the evidence does support the fact that the creature was taken and the CTC was used without your consent and the creature being removed from your inventory is wrong but there is the ability to confiscate anything from anybody in a case as long as it has baring to the case which this obviously does.

This being said you can still fight for it back but my personal opinion would be to not pursue it. Though you could attempt to sue Granos for using your CTC that would be vain as you wouldn't be rewarded anything as the creature is not in his possession and thus he does not have the right to give it back (though this may inflict a additional punishment on him). You could attack Jacoand but once again no creature return and he could simply plea that he was new to the system and attempting to use it simply overlooked the name factor involved.

Unfortunate though and I mean no offense meant though just simply speaking with the facts and yes I know this sounds very bad in every way possible the only person you could take this up with is Mur himself.

God I must be crazy im likely going to get this post deleted butchered my account maybe punished and even if that doesn't happen so many people are going to rate me down my posting ability will be suspended if not completely restricted by saying this but of course this is the truth im just saying it.

Though trying to get your creature back through a case I must say is futile and ill just list off the reasons in my last seconds of posting freedom:
-He's Mur has the most favor in the game world (no jury would vote against him)
-Mur holds all the evidence
-Mur controls the court because he is the judge (basic mafia rules apply)
-Lets say by some merical you did win the reason Mur is not willing to argue it is because it is already gone.

That's it make your comments or what ever.

I believed he refered to the trial of JacoAnd & Granos, not a trial about his creature. Anyway, you are taking all this way to far. My mistake was that i assumed Granos had the entire CTC, that was wrong. In case there was proof he had it, cutler could lose his creature because he might be considered accomplice to granos crime. However, its not at all the purpose of it trial to pursue leads to incriminate cutler, in fact i consider now too that he is just a victim of this. (@C regardless that i know everything about that particular creature)


Now, regarding what i read above with a "trial against mur". Let me make it simple for you because it seems to me that democracy has gotten to far. There are no trials against me. Consider it law. If i do mistakes i am not doing them on purpose and for my mistakes or bad decisions entire md has to suffer, so let me care about my missjudges first, because none of you care about md more than i do (no offence). You are ALWAYS welcome to share your opinion and complain, tell me you do not aprove to what i do, be open. I never punished someone for talking open to me. Keep it polite and respectful, its not for my ego its for the respect that i give you back by trying to be open minded about complains i might not always agree to.

Should I add it in the rules, or its self understood?

Edited March 1, 201016 yr by Muratus del Mur
And yes i also consider cutler a valuable asset of md community, but this has nothing to do with the way i judge trials. You wish me to be objective but complain that i am ? Granos is also no common criminal, yet he got punished like one.

Patience, Kamisha. You do not know the great Mur well enough yet, to say such things.

Confiscation by Mur may be temporary; consider it like posting bail. I suspect it will be fully restored in this case, because cutler obviously did nothing wrong. Patience is a virtue.

Yes both confiscated things will be restored to their owners. When that is i dont know. Drach will be returned without any penalty but with new ctc.

please do bug me about it if i forget to send them in a few days.

Sry about the outburst if you can call it that. Usually in most games when I talk out against a leader or somebody important they find some technicality to silence or just right out get rid of me.

Its just human nature. I banned yesterday death ray for writing an offense in AL replies, when i should have probably ignore it and move on. You will get repercussions if you are rude, mock me and such, its normal afteral, but for stating your opinion no. At least I don't hide behind technicalities.

Now since you keep me talking so much on this matter, I will send those things back now so we can finish with this.

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='01 March 2010 - 09:33 AM' timestamp='1267435988' post='55539']
Its just human nature. I banned yesterday death ray for writing an offense in AL replies, when i should have probably ignore it and move on. You will get repercussions if you are rude, mock me and such, its normal afteral, but for stating your opinion no. At least I don't hide behind technicalities.

Now since you keep me talking so much on this matter, I will send those things back now so we can finish with this.
[/quote]


Thank you Mur for sending the creature back. I appreciate you resolving this quickly.

I guess this forum topic can be closed.

Cheers,

Cutler

PS So I take it thats a no for the Boon?