Wps Gone Bad

[Shadowseeker]

That's the issue..do you think he checks the logs?

I am guessing that is partly why he made them public, in order to have the community having the ability to watch as well.

Often enough it's not him by himself discovering, but rather some player asking him to check, and then something following.

[Darigan]

Well the topic is here the "accused" have given their defenses I do believe that although you bring it to attention it should be him or the kings that make the final judgments...since they are the ones giving them out

[dst]

I accused nobody of anything in this thread. I just made o lists of WPs that i think were given for the wrong reasons. The logs are full of abuses but the one abusing their powers had the decency to "invent" at least a reasonable...reason. The ones I nominated in my first post did not even bother. I find this really insulting to my intelligence. Are we so stupid to close our eyes to this? I am not.

The list is for the whole community to see it. I could have gone just to Mur with this but I am an adept of transparency.

[Darigan]

I think it would have been better to take it to Mur and let him deal with it in his own way rather then pointing them out to the community it is to him that they have to answer to not us.

While the community has a right to know the actions of others WP usage you could have simply brought attention to the logs without specifically pointing anyone out.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Darigan

[dst]

No. This is not how things work. I am not a delator. And as I already said: I like transparency. I hate when people go behind someone's back . Also, going directly to Mur would be like forcing him to take action. This way, I pointed out the problem. He will decide if he needs to do something about it or not.

[Darigan]

Alright then it's left up to him, which is how it should be

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Darigan' date='27 March 2010 - 06:21 PM' timestamp='1269710468' post='57010']
Alright then it's left up to him, which is how it should be
[/quote]
No. The final decision is left to him; we are allowed to debate as much as we want.
If any of our arguments are valid, they should influence that decision, if he feels like investigating this stuff.
If any of our arguments are valid, they should influence how people will use WPs to reward questers in the future, lest people wish to be publicly and/or privately accused.

[Darigan]

I just love how everyone of my posts on this topic save one has gotten a negative vote lol

edit: seems i was mistaken about this

on topic- As dst pointed out she wasn't "accusing" anyone she simply wrote a list of things she thought were wrong

and what some of you have done is berate them when they have defended themselves (which is not your job)voice your opinions fine but don't gouge their eyes out for attempting to defend their decisions. I'm not saying that they did use the WP in the best way but to drag out people with fairly decent reputations into the spotlight simply for one mistake is overkill IMO

Edited March 27, 2010 by Darigan

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Darigan' date='27 March 2010 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1269714573' post='57013']
and what some of you have done is berate them when they have defended themselves (which is not your job)voice your opinions fine but don't gouge their eyes out for attempting to defend their decisions. I'm not saying that they did use the WP in the best way but to drag out people with fairly decent reputations into the spotlight simply for one mistake is overkill IMO
[/quote]
So, don't argue against people because they have a reputation? So, I can go break some rules and nobody should be outwardly angry at me, just because I have a reputation? If somebody doesn't want to listen to people being angry at them, they can do one of two things: One, don't do something wrong or questionable in the first place, and two, they can defend themselves well, or apologize and try to make it right.

[Udgard]

Here is how I see it:

If the people put in the spotlight cannot give a good enough explanation, why should people relent? Just because they made a defense? A bad defense isn't really worth much different than a no defense.

[Darigan]

Let me try this from a different angle...since its already been pointed out to me that I'm new and know nothing or little to nothing about the workings of MD allow me to ask...Why is it they should have to defend themselves to the general public? It may be your job to point out their flaws but in this instance correct me if I'm wrong but don't they have to answer to Mur or the Kings? If I am wrong and the population is allowed to decide their fate well then forgive me. This was one reason I like MD because I thought it was a dictatorship of sorts, his and the kings have the last word on these matters. Yes I realize I'm opinionated, yes I realize I'm new and probably don't know what I'm talking about, but that's why I'm asking now instead of spurting out my thoughts (even though that may have been what i just did...again) Forgive me for voicing my opinion if I'm wrong

[Burns]

Mur has the last word, and so do kings, that's the rule, yeah

BUT, neither Mur nor the kings really interfere with the general population, or get around to check up with the things that happen, so they can't decide most of the time.
We bring up the cases, we argue them where argumentation is needed, and then, and only then, Mur or the specific kings do something or not, depending on their own morals.
However, WE make the rules of what is wrong and what is not. Not in the last instance, no, then it's Mur's rule, but he never does anything lest the community already knows that what was done is simply wrong and against MDs/Mur's ideals.

The fate of rulebreakers is ultimately decided by Mur, but the comm is where people need to be accepted, 'cause when they are not, we'll easily find something wrong they do even when they hardly log in. Apart from that social thingie, good reasons also lower the punishment. They don't have to defend themselves publically per se, but until Mur starts doing something, there are no private tries to defend because he simply wouldn't care to read a message talking about something he's not interested in right now.

Let me summarize, just so you grasp the extent of our social networks: If you get on the wrong side of the community, there's not much you can do in MD anymore, people stop talking to you, people exclude you from activities, and people will try and have you prisoned for every toe you put on the line, and trust me, there's not much you can do without getting close to borders.
It is not us who takes away wishpoints, special rights, stats, creatures and so forth, but our punishment is by far worse nonetheless.

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Darigan' date='27 March 2010 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1269714573' post='57013']
and what some of you have done is berate them when they have defended themselves (which is not your job)voice your opinions fine but don't gouge their eyes out for attempting to defend their decisions. I'm not saying that they did use the WP in the best way but to drag out people with fairly decent reputations into the spotlight simply for one mistake is overkill IMO
[/quote]
After rereading I notice that Phantasm says he understands the replies to his defence. Mya hasn't got any direct feedback, only comments about how the guardians work in general. The only other person who made a 'defence' was Sagewoman. By elimination you either have a problem with me or Shadowseeker and both of our comments were very objective.


For the sake of undoing your filibuster, I will quote again why I think her defence is silly:
[quote]
I will not defend myself further. What was done in the past STAYS in the past.
[/quote]
If this statement was valid, everybody would walk away free, since no trial happens before the crime.

[Rasiel]

Yes but she did also defend herself in another post before that one which i thought gave more detail as to why she did it.

I personally think this whole thing is well... stupid and what if you guys just let it go this time and then if another event happens in the future like this one including the same people then you can go all crazy about it.

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Darigan' date='28 March 2010 - 12:46 AM' timestamp='1269758785' post='57039']
Why is it they should have to defend themselves to the general public?
[/quote]
Nobody said they have to defend themselves, that's their choice.

[Kamisha]

With obvious reason I am not going to defend my self or sage as that will be a bad mark for both of us.

Though this is what I am going to say. The reason of wish points is to allow people to give a reward to a person they admire due to something they have done or a picture they have drawn a story they have told or a result of circumstance which brings somebody to a point in a road where they have to say that this person deserves something for this. The idea of a WP for a quest is a construction of this idea in a more material form.

Though I have seen things much worse then what DST presents to us. Who has actually payed somebody in wish points I have seen it many times. In fact marnidbell payed wish points in order to get the items created for them which was blatantly shown that they may not receive them.

Apparently kings are allowed to give out points as the wish without a valid explanation and give particular people perks just for being part of there land.

My point is this. If you are going to nominate particular people I believe it is only fitting that the entire list is shown. I don't want to see the points list in a window. You can choose to manipulate what we choose by showing us only a small view. Thats all I am going to say on the matter as I already risk incriminating my self.

[Shadowseeker]

As for the full logs...

Go visit the WP logs and paste any other you see not fit here.

They have reasons, or so I would think.

And that example you named..is one WP for getting 3 items, almost to be considered a quest already..I mean 3 items? That may mean you have to sell off things with the value of a drachorn, for that WP. If you get lucky it may be less, if you do not, it may be more.

[Pipstickz]

If you want the full list of WPs that have been given out, there's over 500, almost 600

So yeah, good luck

Or, if you want the whole list that's currently available, buy the stuff from the MDShop and post it yourself :/

[dst]

@Kamisha: if you have evidences please, post them. Or if you have the guts to do it. I have seen many screaming: "Abuse! He/she broke the rules!" but NOBODY provided any evidence(and I am talking about strong proofs not circumstantial ones) . So unless you have strong proofs I suggest you stop with your accusations. I know pretty damn good the rules to see when they were broken or just bended.

[Udgard]

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='29 March 2010 - 02:16 AM' timestamp='1269803803' post='57061']
If you want the full list of WPs that have been given out, there's over 500, almost 600

So yeah, good luck

Or, if you want the whole list that's currently available, buy the stuff from the MDShop and post it yourself :/
[/quote]

Pip, is that the total amount of WPs available, or the total of WPs that has been awarded?

If that's the total amount of WP awarded.. that's pretty crazy. I don't think there's 150, even 100 total WP when RPCs were still around (and RPCs were around for what.. 2 years?), and in only about half a year, we get THAT much WP swirling around? O_o

[Yoshi]

[quote name='Udgard' date='29 March 2010 - 05:48 AM' timestamp='1269856087' post='57124']
Pip, is that the total amount of WPs available, or the total of WPs that has been awarded?

If that's the total amount of WP awarded.. that's pretty crazy. I don't think there's 150, even 100 total WP when RPCs were still around (and RPCs were around for what.. 2 years?), and in only about half a year, we get THAT much WP swirling around? O_o
[/quote]

Just check the WPId... its very close to 600 if I recall correctly, off by like 5 or something. Pretty sure there were more than 150 handed out during RPC's.

EDIT: If I'm correct, around 390 were given out before the RPC's were fully removed.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Yoshi

[Shadowseeker]

13/02/10 07:35:44 One WP from Grido to cutler, saying help with the labyrinth.

26/03/10 04:10:57 One WP from Mya Celestia, saying from Grido for the Impossible Labyrinth. To cutler.

Quote of mur:

2 wispoints (yes i am making an exception by giving 2 at one time, dont do the same ever)

[Sasha Lilias]

[quote name='dst' date='13 March 2010 - 10:02 PM' timestamp='1268517767' post='56362']
Here is the list of the WP awarding that I find at least weird. I will not comment on them so you'll not say I am mean. I will just post them (details included):

Receiver Giver WpId Details Date/Time

Death Ray Mya Celestia 576 Quest 01/03/10 06:24:11
Nimrodel Mya Celestia 571 Guardian quest 26/02/10 19:02:35
Firsanthalas Mya Celestia 570 Mentorship 26/02/10 18:53:38
Sharazhad Mya Celestia 569 Quality Mentoring 26/02/10 18:49:13
CrazyMike Mya Celestia 568 Completed the guardian only quest 26/02/10 18:46:43
Kouras sasha lilias 533 Helped to plan out a new story for me, helped lost puppy make a personal wix and completed the set tasks 29/01/10 13:13:00
mcvitie phantasm 473 Secret Reindrach drawing that Aelis did.A gift given for a very special time of year. With happy holidays for all 24/12/09 16:23:29
Kamisha *Sagewoman* 395 For having the guts and ball to apply and campaign for Kingship and to gracefully withdrawn knowing the odds were against him 22/10/09 16:58:46
[/quote]

I would just like to say that Mya has given out 6 WP's in the last month or so.5 of these were given to Lorootian members.

[Chewett]

and the other one was given to culter for something that he was already given a WP for

So, what does Mya say? "i dont have to explain myself to you"

Something needs to be looked into this...

[Grido]

I cant speak about the other WP's, but why should anything happen to Mya for my asking her to reward Cutler a WP?
(Which was a WP code that i had given her to use)

Edited April 5, 2010 by Grido