Concerning Loreroot Laws And Chain Of Command

[Firsanthalas]

Chain of command
The chain of command in Loreroot is simple. Each alliance is responsible for their own inner workings. Each alliance member can speak to their leaders and have them raise any concerns or ideas on their behalf at the next meeting of leaders. Alternatively they may speak directly to the king.
Due to issues with timezones, real life and other things the leaders don’t have set dates and times to meet. If something pressing happens they will try to meet up and discuss things as quickly as possible. However, they may need to discuss things with each other, but not at a single time and place with all in attendance. The leaders of the alliances in Loreroot constitute the court mentioned before the kingship was established.
Alliance groups can also seek to invite individuals to speak at a meeting if they feel the need is there.
A note on plans for guilds/groups/sects/titles/institutions/symbols/flags/crests or whatever else you wish to call it. Anything like that should go through the court of Loreroot. At the very least, it should be brought up with the king, or your alliance leader, with emphasis that it hasn’t been discussed further (i.e. with the king).
Now this may seem draconian or an attempt to control or just stifle creativity. In a way it is. But, not for unfair reasons. There are currently about 70 citizens of Loreroot. Having everyone come up with their own ideas and let them off to pursue them without checking will eventually result in issues. Recall the expression that, the road to hell is paved with good intentions? Some of the very issues that Loreroot faced in the past started because of people having what they considered to be a great idea and making plans etc. Add to that other factors, like the low numbers of people around and the probable over abundance of alliances and other groups for that number and you see, that while you may have a great idea for a group, you need to consider other implications. Are there enough people to support or warrant this? Will it have an effect on an already existing or planned group? Does this create a conflict with something or someone else?
Furthermore, it makes more sense for requests to come from one source to Mur.

Citizenship
Once you join a Loreroot alliance, you become a citizen. There is no getting around this. You may not fill out any request for citizenship, but you become one nonetheless. Membership of an alliance in Loreroot is a declaration in itself that you are a citizen and accept the implications thereof. Now, the king could insist that nobody be allowed to join an alliance until they have first applied for and been accepted as a citizen. Perhaps this will become the case. But on a personal level, I felt that this was just adding a layer of bureaucracy and potentially making the alliance leaders feel a loss of autonomy with regards to membership.
One other thing, if you send a citizen request and I accept, it will boot you from your alliance. Therefore I reject requests from people I recognise as alliance members. If you have left your alliance for training or something, please state this on the application so I know I won’t be kicking you from your alliance. Also, there could be a day or two between the times you send an application and I review it. So if you are just leaving for a day or a few hours, don’t send me a request please (or at least contact me directly and let me know). Also, if you have a request pending and you have rejoined your alliance, let me know please. Please don’t send me requests with no reason given either.

Disagreeing with the king
You are entitled to disagree with the king. However, there are certain things that can’t and won’t be tolerated. Disrespecting the king is unacceptable. You can disagree, but you should be courteous about it. Likewise, the same respect should be shown to the alliance leaders within Loreroot. Again, you can raise issues via the chain of command or go directly to the top, so to speak.
Public displays of disrespect are really not acceptable. Disagree yes, disrespect, no.
Now, you may say that I am saying this for myself personally. I am not. The position of king is an office. I won’t always hold it. The rules apply to the position, not to me as such. If you really feel the need to insult me personally, do it in a private manner as a private individual. And again, the same applies to all leaders in Loreroot.

Alliance leaders and takeovers
Alliances in Loreroot are not playthings for the idle. The leader of an alliance should be determined internally, by whatever means the alliance in question uses for such matters. If an alliance feels that someone has subverted the usual mechanisms for this, they may petition the king to remove an unfairly placed leader. Likewise, if a person from beyond an alliance tries to takeover, they may be removed by the king and punished for breaking the law of the land.
The king also holds the right to remove a leader from office if they are in breach of the law or jeopardising their alliance or Loreroot . It goes without saying though, that such activities could be a sure fire way for a king to find themselves at the end of an angry mob. If you feel that this ability is being abused or used unjustly, then it is actually your duty to say something about it. Again, there is a chain of command, so multiple options are available to you.


Remember, you can speak to me. I may take a while to get back to you, but I am not in the habit of simply ignoring people. If you feel intimidated or worried about appearing foolish for some reason, go to your leader and have them raise the issue for you. If you feel that you are not getting feedback after a period of time, please make sure to say something to me at that point. It could be that I have not been informed, so don’t assume that I didn’t bother please.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Firsanthalas

[SageWoman]

After the recent bru-ha ha with Prince Rhaegar, I think it was prudent for you to put in writing on what happens when you join an Alliance and becoming a Citizen. Clarity needs to present so there is no misunderstanding. Kingship has its rules and I am glad that you spelled it out for all to see. It is an elected position as you said, and it should be clear that those powers go with the position, not the person IN the position.

I do think a statement should be written out on what a citizen is and their responsibilities to their chosen land and hense, their King or Queen. It might be a good idea to have in writing what a chain-of-command is as well.

[Jubaris]

this system could work ~~~~if the land had some kind of structure~~~~ which it doesn't. You just preserve state of nothingness by this.

you basically have nothing going on, and you make a set of rules that ban people of doing something, without going through the whole process of stalking people and poking them for weeks to think about something (pray to the gods that someone will actually read your PM in a period of a week.) and with this you make the Loreroot picture of the few (those who actually have some power to make decisions, who decide not to move their bottoms for something that isn't that "cool" in their eyes)


Since you Firsanthalas are a big fan of examples in RL, I'll make one for you.

Nomad people wonder and wonder for ages. They stumble on grasslands after years of wondering in deserts. They found out they have neighbours in the lands around. They need to make something unique so they can be known for who they are. Naturally people would gather up and discuss what would be their goals, plans, and structure of the land, what to do, what are the needs of the people etc.
You don't have someone stepping up and saying, "ok, I take control of this land now. If you want to do anything except taking water and food, you'll have to ask person X to approve it, who will bring the issue to person Y who will tell it to me, and I'll think about can it be done." by doing so you eliminate making of a land culture.

You can "lock" the things by that structure ~~~IF~~~ you have a system to start with, that functions so and so, which Loreroot doesn't



and if I am wrong about this, then tell me what is the system of Loreroot, how do the people work together in prospering their land?

[Firsanthalas]

You tell me, you are the one that never seems to want to work with people at all.
The structure of the Savelites seemed rather simple. It was You. You didn't want to bring other people into any meetings or discussions. I practically had to force you into it. I asked you to designate a second in command after you said that you were stepping back. You refused point blank. You didn't seem to want to involve anyone else in any projects that concerned Loreroot as a whole. At the very least you seemed to want and expect all the work to be carried out by you and the Savelites and then just accepted by the rest of us. When we started planning and organising the festival that was held months ago, Mya approached you to try and engage you. It was supposed to be an all Loreroot affair, so I asked Mya to make sure you had some input. Mya agreed to speak to you on the basis that you and I seemed to be incapable of having any reasonable discussion. Your initial reaction was to call Mya a traitor. A word you seem to love throwing around I might add. The problem, Rhaegar is YOU! Most people find it extremely difficult to deal with you, if at all. Even after you have gone, you seem to be out to cause as much disruption as you can. You are not Loreroot, Rhaegar. You are not the Savels either. Your actions have and continue to damage Loreroot and the Savelite church.

One more thing. You may hate me and you may continue to call me what you wish. But you really should not be taking things out on people that are supposed to be your friends. What has happened has put people that consider you a friend in an awkward and uncomfortable situation. You really should not be taking it out on them. Yet it seems that you are. Forcing people to choose between you and their loyalty to their alliance and/or land is not a noble act at all.

[Sharazhad]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='18 June 2010 - 12:20 PM' timestamp='1276856457' post='62192']
this system could work ~~~~if the land had some kind of structure~~~~ which it doesn't. You just preserve state of nothingness by this.

you basically have nothing going on, and you make a set of rules that ban people of doing something, without going through the whole process of stalking people and poking them for weeks to think about something (pray to the gods that someone will actually read your PM in a period of a week.) and with this you make the Loreroot picture of the few (those who actually have some power to make decisions, who decide not to move their bottoms for something that isn't that "cool" in their eyes)


Since you Firsanthalas are a big fan of examples in RL, I'll make one for you.

Nomad people wonder and wonder for ages. They stumble on grasslands after years of wondering in deserts. They found out they have neighbours in the lands around. They need to make something unique so they can be known for who they are. Naturally people would gather up and discuss what would be their goals, plans, and structure of the land, what to do, what are the needs of the people etc.
You don't have someone stepping up and saying, "ok, I take control of this land now. If you want to do anything except taking water and food, you'll have to ask person X to approve it, who will bring the issue to person Y who will tell it to me, and I'll think about can it be done." by doing so you eliminate making of a land culture.

You can "lock" the things by that structure ~~~IF~~~ you have a system to start with, that functions so and so, which Loreroot doesn't



and if I am wrong about this, then tell me what is the system of Loreroot, how do the people work together in prospering their land?
[/quote]


[color="#2e8b57"][i]Seriously Rhaegar. Grow up! your whining and bitching is getting hella annoying!!!
Your Nomad story is flawed if you were hoping to compare it MD.

1) You are forgetting Firs didnt stand up and make himself king, he was elected in the same elections you were vying for
2) As king he is expected to show his rulership via...wait for it...A SET OF RULES!!!
3) you are no longer a LR citizen, so how does this concern you again?
[/i][/color]

[Jubaris]

tell me one thing at least Firsanthalas, once I am completely out of your way, who will you blame your failures on?

I have objectively responded to the topic you made, focusing on things that brought up with it, and on my question regarding your announcement you responded with a rant of lies (surprised how no one warned you of going offtopic). My point still stands, but you can always continue playing your political media games and telling lies.
You can continue telling lies, contradicting your own words while doing so, and taking some of my words out of context, but you can never "win" this, for the truth can be checked in deeds, deeds that you lack during these 8 months, while some of us actually tried doing something around here.


and you Shara... at first I am not entirely sure are you saying this to fulfill your purpose of a "shouter", or you really aren't able to understand?
Nomad story fits MD since people inhabited empty Loreroot, it shows how land should function when it is made from point zero (since Loreroot is still on point zero, and no one proved me wrong, nor anyone will.)

all of your points are wrong, and I won't be draged into explaining things even further just for later to be pictured as a spammer, apparently, and invasive. Use your brain and think about the things you ask, and leave the limits of your illusions.

[Mya Celestia]

[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]People scream for action. Something is done. People complain.

People scream about a lack of rules. Rules are made. People complain.

This may be opening a can of worms, but I would really like to know something. So we can all understand.

Rhaegar, tell us. What do you want done? Don't say you want Firs to do what he said. Don't say all the other jargon. Spell it out. [/font][/color]

[Jubaris]

I want that he (consulting with also other major representatives of Loreroot) makes a list of goals for Loreroot, what should it focus on as a land, then work for it and assemble a team of people who are best for the areas of work need to be done (and not push one of his own. I'll continue Firsanthalas' trend of making examples from RL - like that annoys Shara, so that annoys me when he does it, only she doesn't think about that does she? Biased little head she is )
It's like a president pushing members of his own party to get some money instead of putting right people on right places who are best for the job.
But at the moment as far as I see it , it comes to NO JOB AT ALL.

It isn't even about council, it is about fair and correct relationship, and common action of whole Loreroot, not Guardians of the Root.

[Darigan]

Sadly Rhaegar your analogy works better in MD then it does in RL. With your logic your saying a president should put someone in charge of gaining money for them even if he's from a different party or not involved at all with the president or party. That doesn't really work that well in my experience in RL. However it can work in MD because there aren't really any different parties we are one land, the problem is that when some people come together to try and accomplish something their egos get the best of them and they drown out any ideas the others have for their own. I'm sure in the near future things might be set down a counsel of leaders might be called to consider the future projects of the land but all of the people at that counsel will hopefully be thinking about the whole and will put their ideas on the table...Arrogance and Ego have no place when the good of the land is involved and you my friend simply do not see that your endless ranting before that post (and whether you like it or not all you really have done is rant about how bad things are) all it has done is to hurt your cause and hurt you. Loreroot will survive, we will persist and as Firs as our king we will prosper. I'm only sorry that things have turned out the way they have and that you have landed where you are. I do not know if things can be rectified between you and Firs, I'd like to hope so but egos need to be deflated and things need to be worked out in a civilized fashion. Loreroot will survive with or without you.

[Jubaris]

Your ignorance will be your doom.

Root of the Matter Inn republic won’t prosper. Tell me one new Lorerootian that shows some great potential? I can name at least one for every other land. You are making a land of buffoons. I see no changes and there won’t be any. Tho even with this I made progress that can be classified as greatest in the 8 month history of this kingdom - Firsanthalas actually asking other people what they think about their roles (new topic inspired by me.) but that’s just a mask.

That’s just the way it is.

I am gone now, and I won’t be getting back till I see some changes, till then I can try to reason some of Lorerootian people, not to act against Firsanthalas but to understand, and I’ll always be there for those just in need.

Root of the Matter Inn base, Guardians of the Root will continue this way till perhaps someone decides to do something, Children of the Eclipse will stay in their own business unwilling or too afraid to done anything of importance to Loreroot, and Savelites will be now lead by the one who betrayed his oath and principles of his brotherhood.

Good luck prospering. I will seek my refuge elsewhere – have no fear, I can take care on my own, but the problem is that you people can’t. And at the end, we’ll see the results and who was right and not.
I hope that the number of good individuals will end your illusions, but I doubt it.

Some things will never change.




[b]edit: for those who cannot process on normal thought, Sparrhawk is regarded as part of those individuals who actually think independently of the seeds others plant. (yeah, I know it is hard to believe, but Sparrhawk did actually form an opinion of his own, I didn't "twist" him.)[/b]

Edited June 19, 2010 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[Tarquinus]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='19 June 2010 - 03:44 AM' timestamp='1276937095' post='62230']
Children of the Eclipse will stay in their own business unwilling or too afraid to done anything of importance to Loreroot...

Some things will never change.
[/quote]
You have made an enemy where you once had a friend. Is that the change you sought?

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

That comment was completely uncalled for Rhaegar. Afraid to do anything of importance to Loreroot? There is no fear here, you will find.
Surely you would not be so foolish to exclude Sparrhawk and his ideas from that statement, by saying "The Eclipse" you speak of each and every member of our alliance.
I find it very insulting.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Amoran Kalamanira Kol

[Shemhazaj]

[quote]Good luck prospering. I will seek my refuge elsewhere[/quote]

[font="Book Antiqua"][color="#696969"]Yes Rhaegar, please do that.[/color][/font]

[Prince Marvolo]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='19 June 2010 - 10:44 AM' timestamp='1276937095' post='62230']

Your ignorance will be your doom.

[/quote]

Your lack of an open mind, has already led you to your doom


[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='19 June 2010 - 10:44 AM' timestamp='1276937095' post='62230']

Root of the Matter Inn republic won’t prosper. Tell me one new Lorerootian that shows some great potential? I can name at least one for every other land. You are making a land of buffoons. I see no changes and there won’t be any. Tho even with this I made progress that can be classified as greatest in the 8 month history of this kingdom - Firsanthalas actually asking other people what they think about their roles (new topic inspired by me.) but that’s just a mask.

[/quote]

Jeez, I knew you had an ego, but I never realised it's size untill now



[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='19 June 2010 - 10:44 AM' timestamp='1276937095' post='62230']

I am gone now, and I won’t be getting back till I see some changes, till then I can try to reason some of Lorerootian people, not to act against Firsanthalas but to understand, and I’ll always be there for those just in need.

[/quote]

Gone now? Then STOP complaining about things that dont affect you anymore!
Trying to Reason some of Lorerootian people? C'mon guy, I think he have more reason thatn you, seriously.
And you'll only be there for those that stroke your ego


[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='19 June 2010 - 10:44 AM' timestamp='1276937095' post='62230']

Root of the Matter Inn base, Guardians of the Root will continue this way till perhaps someone decides to do something, Children of the Eclipse will stay in their own business unwilling or too afraid to done anything of importance to Loreroot, [u]and Savelites will be now lead by the one who betrayed his oath and principles of his brotherhood.[/u]

[/quote]

You say I dont know the 'principles of my brotherhood' yet YOU did not understand me in my thinking cause again, it just didnt fit YOURS.
brotherhood needs to come in 2 ways, I have stayed friendly with you, but if you decide to keep insulting me... Then it is noy ma fault our brotherhood ended here. Take a look at yourself


[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='19 June 2010 - 10:44 AM' timestamp='1276937095' post='62230']

Good luck prospering. I will seek my refuge elsewhere – have no fear, I can take care on my own, but the problem is that you people can’t. And at the end, we’ll see the results and who was right and not.
I hope that the number of good individuals will end your illusions, but I doubt it.


[/quote]

Ok, Bbye, now STFU, thanks

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='19 June 2010 - 10:44 AM' timestamp='1276937095' post='62230']


Some things will never change.

[/quote]

EXACTLY! YOU will never change, YOUR attitude will never change, YOUR ego will never change


ooc:
This is my 2 cents of it. And I still hope you'll change again to the one you were before.
Your sudden change of character is scary, and I'm not the only one thinking that.
If you decide that your 'honor' and 'right way of thinking' and especially youe Ego come before your friends, well... Thats just sad.
And I hope, that you will realise that some day.
Untill that day, I will just try to ignore you



(edit: structure errors)

Edited June 19, 2010 by Prince Marvolo

[Nimrodel]

[quote name='Prince Marvolo' date='19 June 2010 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1276944595' post='62238']
ooc:
This is my 2 cents of it. And I still hope you'll change again to the one you were before.
Your sudden change of character is scary, and I'm not the only one thinking that.
If you decide that your 'honor' and 'right way of thinking' and especially your Ego come before your friends, well... Thats just sad.
And I hope, that you will realise that some day.
Untill that day, I will just try to ignore you
[/quote]

I second him Rhaegar.But I will not ignore you. I'll keep trying, as I've been.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Esmerelda

[SageWoman]

Root of the Matter Inn Republic? I would laugh if I was not so outraged by that comment.

The Root of the Matter Inn was created so that all people who entered Loreroot could have a place to rest from battles and perhaps enjoy chatting in a pub like setting. I have seen Sentinels, Golem Guerrillas, Archivists, and new players participate in idle chit chat. The Inn was created to encourage interaction among veterans and newbies alike.

While it is true you do drop in from time to time, you chose to be at RavensHold. Some Savelites did frequent the Inn and engage people there. It feels to me that you had no interest in it as it was mainly created and staffed by Calyx of Isis and myself along with Firsan and Mya Celestial and others from outside Loreroot.Perhaps the problem lies not within Loreroot and her citizens, but within yourself.