Golemus Training Grounds

[Mourn the Leper]

errr Mourn here. played under a different character named Woodsman last summer for a little bit, being a teacher i've my summers free. well summer's here, so i decided to make it round two with a different character...so's anyways my two cents.

don't know too much about liberty, but if anything, i like the idea of keeping his memory alive through his guys. i'm sure he meant a lot to some people and carved out a place in the game, it's cool that yrthilian is willing to continue something he started. isn't that part of what makes this game great...actually shaping it ourselves and leaving a lasting impression.

i think i read that the libs are the royal guard of GG's king now, so in theory they're his. however, you have to remember they're alts too...now GG's alts. so if you use them to benefit GG more than any other land in such a way than, to me, that's alt abuse. using them for roleplay is great. even using them for the training you've outlined is a great idea, and i think fair up to a point.

[b][u]but it seems like everyone's main gripe is that it seems like your putting your people in a greater position to benefit from the training.[/u][/b]

having read the previous thread about the supposed GGG abuse, you seem to be giving a perfect opportunity to reinvent training, by making it fair and limited, and not a distraction to the game.

so, to be fair, you should let each king of the 4 main lands choose (1) subject to train each day, rinse and repeat. also open the gates to a couple of people unaffiliated that show up during your training times. And maybe the maximum useage for each player could be only 2 times a month.

if anything, hosting such a diverse group would bring different people together and add to your land's prestige. GG would play host and be in charge of the training as you've outlined, so if people don't comply with the rules set out by you, then you have the power to revoke invitations for rule breakers. As each land would benefit, kings could even go so far as to punish their subjects that disobey the rules you set forth, through the new jail feature.

and since many can't go into GG without help, people wouldn't be stomping around and ruining the training. if a war starts or special events are going on, training should stop. i've read that people complain that GGG takes away from the game, by limiting training, people would be forced to do other things. during these times, the libs can go back to being your royal guard. as for training the libs, that could be the payment for hosting the training ground. maybe before training starts, each player must give up a small number of wins to the libs, an amount that would make them strong in YEARS not months.

it seems that preserving liberty's memory is of greatest importance and doing it in a way to benefit all seems to me the best way of doing that. you've been put in charge of continuing and building upon it. whether you intended to or not, using the alts in a way outside of roleplay to disproportionately benefit GG seems like abuse.

while i've read my fair share of topics in the forums, i don't possess the knowledge of the game like most of you on here, so this might have sounded completely off. just my opinion.

end rant.

[Yrthilian]

Mourn the leper

you make some good points
there is merit to what you say and could be implemented.

So i take it this is all the feedback?
hmm i was expecting bigger resistance to be honest

[dst]

I guess everyone is waiting for Mur's reaction first.

[Chewett]

Mur has Stated that GGG can only have one person there at a time, No alts, and that he would ban alts at GGG - FACT

Mur has stated that people can train off his alts because it is his role - FACT

This is a mixture of the two, Liberty isnt here, But his alts are being used to "train". The suggested format Is a GGG style type which therefore if the same GGG principle was applied, they could not be used.

Iv always opposed the use of Libs alts to train, And have disagreed with Mur on the fact that he allowed them. But i cannot argue with someone who has created the game, And because it is so blurred between libs "role of abuse" and a GGG training ground i think he is the only person who will put an end to this abuse, Or allow it...

Edited June 21, 2010 by Chewett

[Yrthilian]

sorry as yoshi reminded me

Some questions:

MP limits?
[i]this is currently mp5 only[/i]

Will alts be invited, or main accounts only?
[i]nope the only alts allowd are the libs[/i]

What happens if a lib gets broken?
[i]contact me and i will fix them again[/i]

What happens if a person breaks them intentionally?
[i]they will be kicked from the island and will not be allowed back into the training grounds[/i]

What happens if a person breaks another person there?
[i]they will be warned and if the do it again they will be removed from the island and will not be allowed back into the training grounds[/i]


Are we allowed to attack each other?
[i]yes that would not be a problem[/i]

If you don't like another that is there due to personal reasons, can you switch out with someone else?
[i]Depend on the reasons and the timing but yes it would be done so as you are with players you get on with.[/i]

[Yrthilian]

Ok time to reveal the motive behind all this

To explain.

I wanted to know if i was right in my observations of people in game. To see if my ability to read
people in RL could work just as well in on online environment. Since I don’t see most of you in person
I was wondering if the skill could be applied to an online environment.

I needed this to be a true response from players and they is why only a few (and I mean only 2) knew of this
Experiment. I need people to react just as they would normally so to those I have offended I apologise.
But when doing an experiment of this kind one need to be sure the data is as pure as it can be.

I will admit that I was surprised by a few and well was not surprised by many. I will admit the surprises
I came across were interesting and I wanted to see if people could make suggestions rather than attack the idea.
Some liked what was being done but would not admit it in the topic more so out of fear of the rest attacking them.
There was only a few willing to make suggestions and not completely tear down the idea.

I needed this topic to be something that was frowned upon but most a sort of Hot/sore topic
Hence when the GGG came under fire I seen my chance to get the experiment running.

I will admit I was hoping for a bit more on argument for and agenst.
But I decided 1 week was to be the length of the experiment and well the arguments stopped
fairly quickly.

I put this line in and yes left it cryptic on purpose.

[u][I]This is a test for the first run of the Golemus Training Grounds more rules may be added as time goes on.[/I][/u]

The main this was that this was said the idea was a test.
But the idea never was put into place. It never was going to be put into place.
I made the topic because

1. I wanted to test one of my own skills
2. I had no idea how I was going to try and train up the libs and was hoping to see some good suggestions mixed in with the arguments

There was one player I have to point out that did something I was hope the older one could have tried to do
and that was making some nice well constructed suggestions and this is a player I have not seen in MD myself.
I have to say some could learn from this player. I suggest you loke at his response the name of the player is
Mourn the Leper and I thanks you for your nice response to the whole post.

Now this was an experiment and I expect to get the whole

you are only saying it is to cover your tracks of not running the lib GTG
or
you are only saying this because you realised it was a bad idea.

Well if that is what you think then fine that is to be expected.
When one runs such an experiment one has to expect the backlash from the end results
both on and off the forums and game. I do have to say though I enjoyed some of the yim
convos and no I will not post that info the result of this experiment or at least the details of it
I won’t pots but I will say this

I found my ability to read how some would react was interesting.
I found I was in the area of being about 75% correct.
I have to say that this experiment was a success for what it was intended for.

Also since I was playing with people this was also a secret quest/task

Mourn the Leper come find me in game as I am rewarding you 1 x Wish point for your response.

Hope you are not all to annoyed with me
Yrthilian

[dst]

Yrth....I don't believe you . Sorry but I don't. And maybe it's time to make visible the post I made on the first page but I kept it hidden for certain reasons.
I know too much to actually believe you

[Yrthilian]

[quote name='dst' date='26 June 2010 - 08:27 AM' timestamp='1277537231' post='62686']
Yrth....I don't believe you . Sorry but I don't. And maybe it's time to make visible the post I made on the first page but I kept it hidden for certain reasons.
I know too much to actually believe you
[/quote]


That is fine you dont have to believe me
make what you want visiable.

I already knew this would happen
Just as i know how mur is agenst the LIB army beeing used in this fashion
that i got when i was over there. You think i would go agenst Mur and create
something like this?

[Chewett]

IU agree with Dst, Its a lot of BS that i have seen many others "try" Perhaps if you told someone that could confirm this?

[quote name='Yrthilian' date='26 June 2010 - 08:30 AM' timestamp='1277537439' post='62687']
I already knew this would happen
Just as i know how mur is agenst the LIB army beeing used in this fashion
that i got when i was over there. You think i would go agenst Mur and create
something like this?
[/quote]

Well, you let people like lifeline farm the alts, So letting your alliance members also do it makes a lot of sense. You asked dst if she thought you would actually do it. I will answer for myself. Yes i am positive you would do something like that, You already do it so why not make the abuse offical.

Whether it was a test or you just backtracking, You have lost a lot of respect in my eyes.

[Yrthilian]

[quote name='Chewett' date='26 June 2010 - 08:47 AM' timestamp='1277538478' post='62688']

Whether it was a test or you just backtracking, You have lost a lot of respect in my eyes.
[/quote]

Thats ok this is to be expected
and i never though i had respect from you anyways

[dst]

You know what I believe and think. So it's pointless to argue.
One way or the other seems like this ended how I wanted. And I am glad .
And the post I wrote will remain hidden since it contains some harsh words and I don't wish to flame again this topic. It's there for Mur to see. And since I sent it to you also...you know what I am talking about.

[Darigan]

So basically Yrth did what Mur does? He tried to test a social experiment with the players of the game to see the results and was hoping for one specific result which he got...once...but he was not unprepared for the other responses that he was likely(and did) get to his test/experiment. Whether or not this was something he was actually going to implement or not is irrelevant. His main objective was to run a blind experiment on us and try to find a response to a problem he has.

[dst]

That's the problem: I don't believe him when he says he did an experiment . I see it as something else. But that's just my opinion. The opinion of the person who was responsible for started all this actually .

[Yrthilian]

[quote name='Darigan' date='26 June 2010 - 09:44 AM' timestamp='1277541888' post='62694']
So basically Yrth did what Mur does? He tried to test a social experiment with the players of the game to see the results and was hoping for one specific result which he got...once...but he was not unprepared for the other responses that he was likely(and did) get to his test/experiment. Whether or not this was something he was actually going to implement or not is irrelevant. His main objective was to run a blind experiment on us and try to find a response to a problem he has.
[/quote]


Darigan

basicaly you hit the nail on the head.

I also know why dst does not believe me and as i said i expected that
and some of what is yet to come. This is to be expected when one runs
an experemint like this and keeps people out of the loop.

At this point it does not matter to me if i am believed or not.
All i can say is i already know the Mur would not have approved of the
idea and it was something i already knew would not happen ever.

Also i will now add to this so that all are assured. No player will be allowed
to train off the like in a GGG style format. When or IF the libs train it will
be them that comes and trains each one by them selfs. This is the ONLY solution
for the libs regards there training and has always been the solution.

[awiiya]

Your experiment was going flawlessly until that post right there were you admit to doing a test.

Why tell us? There's no point but for you to feel a bit of pride in having "pulled the wool over our eyes." Next time, don't let us even know. It's better that way.

Awi

[Yrthilian]

I stated it as such because at some point
i had to tell. As per the past events people
have taken things i have done to heart and
even now they still come back to haunt me

many thing i fully admint to having done that
in hindsite i regret doing. So i felt that i
should at least let people know what i was really
up to this time.

This is my reasion for telling of this test.

[awiiya]

You probably upset more people by telling of your "experiment" than you would have by remaining silent.

Awi

[Firsanthalas]

I am replying to this simply because someone said that they would like to hear from a person that knew about the experiment.
When Yrth posted the topic he contacted me and asked me not to make any response. He told me that he had no intention of doing what he had said in the first post of the topic and that he wanted to gauge reactions and feedback.
For the record, I would be opposed to any such action. I believe that Yrth knows this himself. (If he doesn't, he does now )
I don't know Yrth's thinking on this or necessarily agree with it, I am merely stating that he did indeed tell me at least that he was conducting an experiment and that he was not intending to carry out the plan he outlined in the thread. Although, he is concerned on how he is supposed to train up the Lib army.

One other point I would like to make.
Some people have insinuated or said that Yrth has profited directly from the Libs. While I have my concerns and feelings on any land having a 'npc army' I won't get into that here. What I will say though, is that he can't use the Libs for his own personal training. They are essentially his alts, so he cannot attack them. Whatever about his citizens and land getting some benefit and therefore himself indirectly, he can't directly train off the Libs himself.