Rebel Rule

[Curiose]

With the introduction to the rebel rule, is that effective immediately, disregarding any ongoing things?

This question really has no relation to anything, it was just a question that came up as I was speaking about it with some friends.

Also, once an Alliance is abandoned, that Alliance still has value, but can be used for bartering and such like that?

[Grido]

Most changes tend to affect things from then onwards, so i have to figure it's the same with this? So..whilst anything before the announce wouldn't count, anything from then on, would?

How would you barter an alliance with no members?

[Curiose]

I don't know.

The announcement said that you can use old alliances if everyone in said alliance becomes a rebel to negotiate.

[Burns]

As propaganda, yes. Alliances without members practically stop to exist, without leader there's no option to invite somebody into it.

Ergo: If you make your alliance a rebel-alliance, it's gone. Forever.

[Unless a role leader like Simplyzero claims it back, which can happen once, for a good reason, etc.etc., don't count on that when an ally rebels, though.]

[Laphers]

You would barter the power shown in emptying an existing alliance. If 20/20 people leave an alliance and a King is shown to have a one less alliance in his/her land then the rebels display their power. It's basically bragging rights more than anything.

Having thought about using an empty alliance as bragging rights though, I wonder about what happens if alliance leadership wants to rebel but isn't sure about the rest of their alliance. They could conceivably kick out anyone they weren't sure about joining them in rebellion and then set themselves as rebels and they have effectively emptied the alliance. I wonder if there is any way of ensuring that that doesn't happen? Perhaps by ensuring that any alliance kicks (for previous 7 days) are reversed if the last person to leave becomes a rebel (including if they leave the alliance and then set themselves as a rebel).

[Burns]

If the kings allow for such disloyal ally-leaders, they don't deserve better

Also, 3 rebels and 20 kicks are just that, 3 rebels and 20 kicks, different from 23 rebels. Weakens their point massively, specially as all kings have 2 or more allies under their rule.

[Rendril]

The views of one alliance member do not necessarily coincide with the views of another. The action of disbanding an alliance would be a display of the rebel's will and power, but is not a requirement, it depends on the rebel cause. While two players might both be rebels, they might be fighting two different causes.
Remember that an alliance follows the rules of the land the king, that is why one leaves it to become a rebel.

[Shemhazaj]

[font="Book Antiqua"][color="#696969"]does the "Rebel" button have safety feature like "are you sure?" box?
coz I'm bound to click it by accident eventually...
*sighs* what can I say, it's a gift... >>
[/color][/font]

Edited November 11, 2010 by Shemhazaj

[Rendril]

As a matter of fact, it does
Though...it is still possible to say yes to it by accident

[Shadowseeker]

There's one more thing that I would like to know, what happens if you use the rebel status to leave an alliance, is there a decrease in loyalty?

As of now that seems to be the only abusable point I see.

[Kyphis the Bard]

Another way you could use it as a bargaining point is to have all but the leader become rebels, and have the leader threaten to join the rebels and abandon the Alliance. However, while the Leader remains in the Alliance, he isn't a rebel, and is still punishable as any other citizen, needing to follow the land laws.

[Firsanthalas]

Well I just want to say that I am really unhappy about this.
Its just another thing that, in my opinion has been fired out there without any consultation or advance warning for kings. I am not saying that I am against it, but I really think that the kings should have been consulted about it as it directly affects them and they may have had useful opinions on the matter.
I also feel that currently kings are pretty hamstrung by bringing this out. When kings were first brought in there were plans for abilities and privilages for kings to help people. They never really happened and I personally feel that has left kings in a poor state of affairs in the minds of many. If a king is not doing their job, or doing it badly or abusing their power, then yes they should be punished and people should be able to rebel. But having kings abused and rebelled against for an inability to do things beyond their control is also unfair. I've already seen at least one thread with certain people bitching (Sorry, but that is what some people are doing) about kings. And experienced it in private and not so private ways too.

This may seem like I'm simply crossing my arms and acting out. I'm not. Communication works both ways and I really feel that the people that have been tasked with running MD could communicate a bit more. One of the problems in the past was that Mur was a single person trying to do everything. That meant that he couldn't possibly respond to everyone and as a result some people felt unheard. There is now a team of people and that means more ears to listen, but it also means more mouths for talking.

Please consider things like this as an example. There is mention of land rules now. Who makes them? There are also rules that the kings make. If kings have no idea as to what is coming down the line, what happens if they make a rule that directly contradicts or turns out to be illegal under land rules that just suddenly appear later on?
You aren't meant to answer that by the way, just consider the implications and the possibility that it could happen.
If a person rebels what? About the only thing I can see that they will loose is the king granting them WPs for quests (and thats only if they even bother to run any), big whoop. It just doesn't seem like a big enough deterrent from going rebel or a big enough reason to stay loyal for that matter.

In my experience I also find that with any changes that affect Loreroot, I get a barrage of questions and concerns from people. The Woodcutters being a brilliant example. I am sure its the same for the others kings.
Given that I find out no sooner than anyone else (and in some case after the fact due to not being up 24 hours a day) it leaves me on the backfoot. I can't answer the questions because I don't know anymore than the people asking them. Personally, it makes me feel rather stupid for the most part. Its only natural that people expect their leaders to know answers to certain questions, especially when you expect the king to know about his own land and its workings. And its only natural to walk away from a king saying 'first I heard of it', 'I don't know' '' Your guess is as good as mine', and think, jeesh, that guy is a total twit.

(Note: I could have emailed this to the powers that be. My reasoning for saying this in public is to make people aware that kings are as much in the dark about things like this as anyone else. It may be seen as a method to throw mud in the eyes of those in charge, but that is not my intention. I'm simply stating my opinion and feelings on this openly.)

I'll finish my rant by saying clearly that I like the ideas in principle, but I feel that as with most things they have not been handled very well and fired out without proper support or consideration. You're releasing Windows Vista when you should be hanging on and just going to windows 7.

[Yrthilian]

I have to agree with firs on this.

The kingship is suppose to be a direct line in a way to the powers that be.
But yet again something gets changed and the kingship is in the dark about it.

This same thing happened with the woodcutter and i said the same thing.
Look what happened there. To me it is a mess and still is but that is another issue.

This idea is good i like it. But again would have been nice to get a heads up first.

[Peace]

Don't complain about the changes that come, just deal with them the best you can.

I understand the frustration of the Kings. But in the years that I spend here, like many of us, I have been affected by changes in the past. But I can not ask to have a heads up, noone can, no even Mur. Do people ask Mur EVER before they do something that will require him to eventually change something? If something gets abused, he is the one who pulls the snake from the hole. And nobody asks him, it is what he must do so that all of you get pleased. Of course, this will affect others in the process but like always, we find our ways out of it and move on.

You have questions to be answered? This is what the forum is used for.

So, on another note.
Though I just woke up, I still don't have full connection with the enviroment around me. Has anything changed in the interface? Am I suppose to see a rebel button somewhere and I can't? Or it is only the King's interface that is/will be changed?

[Sharazhad]

[color="#2e8b57"][i]Forgive my ignorance but what is the role of the kings?

From what I see, they are just here to dish out Wp's and take flak when things go wrong?[/i][/color]

[Peace]

[quote name='Sharazhad' timestamp='1289474489' post='71884']
[color="#2e8b57"][i]Forgive my ignorance but what is the role of the kings?

From what I see, they are just here to dish out Wp's and take flak when things go wrong?[/i][/color]
[/quote]

I believe this may help:
http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/5314-kings/page__pid__44123__st__0&#entry44123

Edited November 11, 2010 by DarkPriestess

[Rendril]

[quote name='DarkPriestess' timestamp='1289472700' post='71882']
So, on another note.
Though I just woke up, I still don't have full connection with the enviroment around me. Has anything changed in the interface? Am I suppose to see a rebel button somewhere and I can't? Or it is only the King's interface that is/will be changed?
[/quote]
If you meet the requirements (certain amount of land loyalty), there will be a button on the citizenship page that lets you rebel.

[Peace]

[quote name='Rendril' timestamp='1289475878' post='71886']
If you meet the requirements (certain amount of land loyalty), there will be a button on the citizenship page that lets you rebel.
[/quote]

Ah, thank you Rendril.

[Yrthilian]

[quote name='DarkPriestess' timestamp='1289472700' post='71882']
Don't complain about the changes that come, just deal with them the best you can.

I understand the frustration of the Kings. But in the years that I spend here, like many of us, I have been affected by changes in the past. But I can not ask to have a heads up, noone can, no even Mur. Do people ask Mur EVER before they do something that will require him to eventually change something? If something gets abused, he is the one who pulls the snake from the hole. And nobody asks him, it is what he must do so that all of you get pleased. Of course, this will affect others in the process but like always, we find our ways out of it and move on.

You have questions to be answered? This is what the forum is used for.

So, on another note.
Though I just woke up, I still don't have full connection with the enviroment around me. Has anything changed in the interface? Am I suppose to see a rebel button somewhere and I can't? Or it is only the King's interface that is/will be changed?
[/quote]


That is a load of BS sorry but it is.
This chage was in the plans and was beeing worked on so there had to be enough time to send a quick message to the kingship
Just a heads up and the likes. It is not that we are complaining but if Kingship people are suppose to run their lands and something comes along like this to make a big change it is always good to be prepaired and be able to answer question.

The think is Kingship people a looked at to have some answeres as it is seen that we are closer to the main man compaired to mast.
So the things just get implemented. There is now a group of people helping Mur with MD so it would be logical to say that they new of the change before it was to happen. So why could they not comunicate this to the kingship. No one said it had to be approved by the kings but they should know what is comming that will make such a large change in the realm. Kingship dont have to like it just know it is happining. you never know we may even have good ideas to implement within the new system.

Some changes happen quickly i for one get that and know it can happen but some changes take time so there is time to tell some of the chamges and what they will do. It is a way of making some changes easer to intergrate. As a king myself i know the frustration of not knowing about a change and then having to quicky fly off a message to Mur to aske what the effects are and bombard him with questions. If i had a little mail tellimg me this change for the land is comming this is the effect. I at least would be able to tell other when the questions start comming in. It makes sence to let the kingship know of things like this. The forum is one place used to rais question but it is also helpfull if in game changes can be addressed in game too.

Sorry i am anoyed about this responce of the deal with it. It is commen sence to let the people know of things like this even if it is only 24 hours before the change hell even if it is 12 hours.

[Peace]

In responce to what you said Yrthilian.

Don't bring this on me. You have an issue about Kingship? Go to Mur or his staff. I am merely expressing my opinion here and frankly the word 'BS' is not what I expected from a king to say.

[Yrthilian]

Look you are trying to be a smart ass about this topic.
The kingship has responded to the anouncment in here and you come along and say stop moaning.

You tried to be smart in other peoples responce
I have an opinion about your statment and with what and how you say it
If you dont like it well not my problem

In regards to the word i use and what you expect well that too is your problme
The forum is for out of game responces and not my character in game unless otherwise stated.
This is easly recognised by me useing the king sig i have for offical Golemus anouncments.

you also point to what you think is fact in regards to the kingship. when the post you point to does
NOT say what the king is and what they do it outlines some of what a king is. The king has not been
granted the ablities promises for the position but the king does work with the staff to get things done.

There is a precemtion in the realm that kings have all thies great ablities and can change things on a whim
well we cant we do not have all the extra ablities people assume we have and we are as in the dark when things happen
in MD. this was a fact stated in public and it is said stop moaning.

This is now starting to turn into a sensles topic. started with sencless replies.

[Peace]

[quote name='Yrthilian' timestamp='1289482862' post='71894']
Look you are trying to be a smart ass about this topic.
The kingship has responded to the anouncment in here and you come along and say stop moaning.
[/quote]

I am not trying to be a smart ass, Yrthilian and if you could put aside your arrognace you would see it. And yes, I am saying stop moaning. Cause this is what you all people know to do nowadays. Moan, moan, moan, whine, whine, whine. In my years in MD, I have learned that changes don't just take place from one day to another. It requires time. And of course, patience that you are lacking. I say my opinion and immediately you jump on me, running your own conclusions about me, when you have absolutely no idea what I am saying or what I believe.

I resigned from my Queenship long before the kingship items, except the seal, even were created. I am not a kingship expert, those who are already wear their crowns over their heads and have some abilities. I am talking as a mere citizen in a realm of constant changes and since it isn't me who makes the changes, I subside and let those who do them deal with the concequences. Turn your rant about Kingship elsewhere, not at me.

And this is my final word to you, Yrthilian. I believe it is time to go back on topic. Leave with it and move on. I am not obligated to responde to any more of your rants so it stops here, I hope.

[pamplemousse]

I have a question about the chatban part. From the Announcements:

"Kings will receive items to supress rebels from talking in chat but they wont be able to suppress groups"

*I understand there is strength in numbers, but what is considered a group? 2 or more, or a higher number?

*What is to stop a King from silencing all the individuals at once? A cool down, or something else?

*Must the target have the "rebel" tag to be silenceable?


*edit* Thank you, Yrth and Rendril for answering my questions (and Grido for going rogue for testing purposes.)

[Yrthilian]

@Peace
Look i dont want to get into a argument with you so yes lets drop it.

In regards to the topic in its self.
I feel this is a kingship issue at hand too. My reasons are as above as are one of the other kings
This is not a moan about kingship ablities but a kingship should have been brought in on the idea before launching it to
help prepar for the new change. This is something that citizens expect as this is how the king is viewed.

I for one like this new system it bring in some nice posablities. The only issue i have with the new system is
because the kings are viewed in a certan way and no matter how much it is said that we do not have what most think we
have yet anyways

I have already send a message to the staff about what i think but i like firs am also speaking in public to show
my views on this new system.

[quote name='pamplemousse' timestamp='1289484783' post='71896']
I have a question about the chatban part. From the Announcements:

"Kings will receive items to supress rebels from talking in chat but they wont be able to suppress groups"

*I understand there is strength in numbers, but what is considered a group? 2 or more, or a higher number?

*What is to stop a King from silencing all the individuals at once? A cool down, or something else?

*Must the target have the "rebel" tag to be silenceable?
[/quote]

this is the description of the item
Stops a rebel from talking in chat temporarily

I cannot say as to what the full details are to be honest. just that is all i have on the information
but from what i figure a group would be 2 or more.
yes the item only workes on people with the rebel tag as they cannot be excomunicated when they have the tag
so it is a protection agenst beeing kicked out of the land and jail but the king can try spending his time trying to keep you quiet

I dont yet have a rebel to test how the item work yet though but if i find one i will let you all know

[Rendril]

[quote name='pamplemousse' timestamp='1289484783' post='71896']
*What is to stop a King from silencing all the individuals at once? A cool down, or something else?
[/quote]
There are a finite number of uses and the players must be in the same place at the person trying to subdue them. There is also a cooldown on the items.

Yrthilian covered the rest.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Rendril