A partial solution to mp levels being 'broken'

[Kafuuka]

According to some people, several mind power levels are 'broken'. More specifically, mp3 is under threat from alts that like to pwn noobs. mp4 suffers the same problem and mp5 is rumored to be broken because those crazy veterans that like to battle, cannot keep themselves from attacking younger players. Oh and also because newer players fear the mp5 level which is supposedly full of overpowered people.

In my experience as mp3, which is years ago, there were already people planning to win heads at mp3 with their second account. These people would be virtually impossible to attack during heads contest and they would repeatedly collect. None of that really did much damage because back then everybody learned to set dummy defenses.

In my experience as mp4, I can walk around the realm during non heads days and find it void of people who want to attack me, except at the gazeeboo or in the park. If I idle somewhere 'far away' nobody bothers my creatures. On heads days, they'll chase you though. Most of them will still ask if they can attack you, probably because an easy battle will leave them with more energy for the next battle. Selfish but not exactly abusive.

People who are currently 'veterans' still recommend 'noobs' to use dummy defenses. They still claim that even if you gimp yourself at mp3, you can rectify it later. They still claim that patience is the most important skill in the game. Although some do state that you should become mp5 in at most two months...

In my experience as mp5.. oh wait i have no intention on ever becoming mp5...


Regardless of my experience, people repeatedly claim some or all of these levels are 'broken' and in general they propose to either nerf lower levels, which is appreciated by many mp5s because it will persuade more people to become mp5, or they propose to move people up to mp5 directly. Actually, I cannot remember any proposition which did not implicitly or explicitly make mp5 cooler and mp- less. Two questions can be asked:
1. Is there a point to have multiple mp levels if we will force everyone to be mp5?
2. Will forcing people to mp5 really work?
Yes moving people to mp5 will work. Without anyone being mp3 or mp4, nobody will be able to complain mp3 or mp4 are broken. In fact, it would be superefficient if whenever someone signs up for the forum, all of their accounts are moved to mp5. This way, people can only ever complain about mp5 being broken; only 1/3rd of the complaints will remain!! It is as arbitrary as X active days; suppose someone logs in every day and plays half an hour and someone else logs in every day and plays two hours. Or X days since creation (even if your isp breaks down), or even X battles fought (they can be in or out, won or lost, low or high xp).

[Asterdai]

just gotta ask, what would you feel like if you were forced into MP5, in your current thoughts about the levels?

there were a few things which i needed to do, before entering MP5, train certain crits which i was told would be helpful, and having been MP5 for a while believe they still are in a way, find out as much as i could about the story mode and benifits recieved, which helped..a lot although near on impossible to work out from the vague clues people generously gave me. I wish i had harvested a lot more loyalty also... thats was a real big shock for me

i guess in a way i had prepared myself a little, if i had been forced onto MP5 in a way like you are suggesting i think i would have cried

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Asterdai' timestamp='1293638434' post='76287']
just gotta ask, what would you feel like if you were forced into MP5, in your current thoughts about the levels?
[/quote]
It depends a lot on the reason. If I'm forced up because people think I am a liability on mp4 I'd be very angry. Not about the mp5 thing, but being considered a menace. I'm certain I am annoying to plenty of people, regardless of mp level.
I'd also be angry about being forced to choose my final principle... I took the first ones based on what made most sense, but down the line the remaining ones are closer and closer in sensibility. (I don't bother with tokens atm so that's not giving me obvious choices.)

[Asterdai]

i was forced to take a principle which i didnt want/choose but that is becuase of the experimental stage using the archers as principle steal... which i must admit was rather annoying when id found out
i could search the forum, but was february actually forced up because he was a "menace" in the end, just for clarification, was there any sanction against him?

Edited December 29, 2010 by Asterdai

[awiiya]

You are suggesting automation, but you've made it clear that an automated bump to mp5 is not the best of choices. There are people like you, Zleiphneir, and others that remain at mp4 and are a nuisance to nobody.

So then there are two options to make this a human decided thing:

1. Have a few people designated with the power to bump people up to mp5.
2. Have a vote-like choice either on a player's details or after a battle with the player. Essentially, it will say, "Should this player be mp4/mp3" and if the ratio between yes and no is too high, that person moves up.

Awi

PS: my personal opinion is that the second would solve many things, especially if the vote came after being attacked by a player. This would allow people who never attack to stay at mp4 forever, since nobody could vote them yes or no.

Edited December 29, 2010 by awiiya

[Chewett]

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1293645864' post='76301']
You are suggesting automation, but you've made it clear that an automated bump to mp5 is not the best of choices. There are people like you, Zleiphneir, and others that remain at mp4 and are a nuisance to nobody.So then there are two options to make this a human decided thing:1. Have a few people designated with the power to bump people up to mp5.2. Have a vote-like choice either on a player's details or after a battle with the player. Essentially, it will say, "Should this player be mp4/mp3" and if the ratio between yes and no is too high, that person moves up.AwiPS: my personal opinion is that the second would solve many things, especially if the vote came after being attacked by a player. This would allow people who never attack to stay at mp4 forever, since nobody could vote them yes or no.
[/quote]


I disagree with purposely pushing people up levels if they dont want to. If you limit certain things to the higher Mindpowers and make it so that you are more tempted towards mp5 then it would cause less frustration.

Burns solution would be very good i feel.

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

As much as the MP5s complain about the "abuse" of the lower MP levels, the lower MP levels are complaining about MP5 "abuse" of their over-powered accounts and further, their lack of general awareness and manners. They just arn't as loud about it because certain Mp5s keep telling them to shut up and deal with it.

I have always found MP5 on the whole to be very "my drach is bigger then yours". Amazingly, MP5 then complain about people staying super powered at lower MP levels. Personally, I find the whole thing very ironic.

If you make everyone MP5 or force MP5 upon people in order for them to be able to play properly, you don't actually change the issue causing upset. Over-powered accounts upsetting newer players still exists as a problem - and by restricting what they are left with when they have to go MP5 it is actually made worse not better. What you will have actually done is removed a way of abusing alts and increased the MP5 population. Removing the way of abusing alts is irrelivant because the purpose of doing it still exists even after you have done it unless you want to do it just for and of itself. That leaves increasing the MP5 population. Is that what this is about then? People will still be upset and either leave or kill off all their crits, that doesn't help anyone.

Like kaf says, lets just make everyone MP5! That'll solve it! no wait...wait...no it won't. What we need, imo, is an attitude change. If you over-farm your land, it gets barren, you're guna have to bite the bullet and let it fallow.

Z

[Mya Celestia]

[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]I'm not convinced 'broken' is the right word. MD is unique in that it doesn't function like any other game out there. We don't have to do something if we don't want to.

While I feel that it could be potentially harmful to MD as a whole for a player to linger at MP3 and pound on others, people aren't forced to hit the button to move to the next level. They are left to choose for themselves. Those who wish to stay at a particular level do so for their own reasons. If it breaks the few rules we have, then it should be taken care of.

We could go into the big fish in a little pond mentality, but that would just take the thread off topic.[/font][/color]

[Seigheart]

Could we simply have a cap on the max ammount of stats for MP3, and 4?

Once they reach that cap, they can no longer gain any stats.

And not a cap on any single, but a collective of stat points. So if their stats equal 250, they can no longer gain exp.

[Udgard]

Or we can try to make the "every noob can beat any veteran with the right rit" part of MD come back again.

[Kafuuka]

I am a bit surprised that after reading my post you people still suggest alternative methods of implicit or explicit nudging everyone towards mp5. When I said 2/3rd isn't bad, I was being sarcastic.

@ Awiiya: the second idea might work with some tweaking. I think it wouldn't make sense if there isn't a minimum amount of votes before it checks the rate. There is the possibility of farming no's if you have a large amount of ips available though.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Kafuuka' timestamp='1293716238' post='76360']
@ Awiiya: the second idea might work with some tweaking. I think it wouldn't make sense if there isn't a minimum amount of votes before it checks the rate. There is the possibility of farming no's if you have a large amount of ips available though.
[/quote]

Give me a vote based on IP's and i shall show any result you want. Any king of voting should be based on similar ideas to kingship, because that removes most influence of alts

[Esmaralda]

I think if we are to motivate people to move up to higher MP levels, we should do it with a carrot, not a stick. By forcing people to do anything, it will simply antagonize them. But if we have perks for moving up, then people will feel motivated to do so.

As mentioned earlier, Burns idea is quite good (MP level as upgrade requirement). But we don't have to stop there. We can come up with many things that only MP5 can do. Maybe locations that only MP5s can get to, or new armor that only MP5 can buy, or new creatures that only MP5 can own, or a free cheeky spell that shoots fireworks up in the sky for fun and giggles, etc etc.

And remember, that what motivates one person will be meaningless to another. Some of us may love the idea of a cool new place that we can rest our feet and RP in. Others will only care about the new shiny armor. Other will just want that creature for their bestiary. The more variation in carrots, the more people will be motivated.

My point is simply that people will react more positively if motivated with carrots than with sticks.


Esmaralda

Edited December 30, 2010 by Esmaralda

[apophys]

mp3 and mp4 have a purpose, and they function effectively in their roles:

mp3 is a tutorial, and mp4 is an opportunity to gather a varied army, in order to be able to withstand mp5.


[quote name='Udgard' timestamp='1293681431' post='76332']
Or we can try to make the "every noob can beat any veteran with the right rit" part of MD come back again.
[/quote]

QFT

We are getting closer to this goal; the fixing of the UP auras make mp5 no longer quite as menacing. Now we need a counter against high initiative, IMHO.

[Kafuuka]

The difference between a carrot and a stick is self deception.
And you will need a huge amount of carrots to overcome the cake named 'pwning noobs'. At least with the large sticks that are proposed I can see the mp3 problem diminish a bit. With carrots all we will have is that mp5s will be happy because they got free stuff. For a while they'll keep from complaining about people on mp3 being overpowered. Overpowered mp3s are by definition alts. Overpowered mp3s are by a tiny leap of faith, alts of mp5s. So if you give all mp5s, including those who have overpowered mp3 alts, a lot of carrots... that is not going to change anything to their overpowered alts. It is more akin to rewarding bad behavior even.
If on the other hand you punish all mp3s and mp4s, including those who are not alts, you will not have punished the mp5 'mains' of those who caused the 'problem'. The bigger the stick you use, the bigger you make the gap between mp4 and mp5; a gap which has been claimed to be too wide often.

I have some faith in Awiiya's proposal. I can also imagine how a reset would solve the alledged problems.
However, whether you present your sticks as swords or coat them in sugar, changes nothing to the basic idea which has been regurgitated a dozen times before. An idea which inherently implies penalizing future mp5s and is unsurprisingly always proposed by mp5s and never by lower mp levels. Unsurprising because mp3s don't tend to post on the forum. However I can't see why any mp3 would agree that being nerfed is fun or good or desirable.

If mp4s were to provide an answer on the dreaded gap, I guess it would be more like this:
Upon leveling up to mp5, you (temporarily) gain +1k in everything. Every day this spell-like effect is lessened by 2%. (A half life of approximately one month.) Nothing long term changes for any mp level, however it might make life for new mp5s a lot easier today, tomorrow and next year too. I'm certain someone could tweak the numbers to make it really balanced.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Kafuuka

[Mya Celestia]

[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]My concern is more about protecting the real newbies that get blasted by those who see their "role" as being the biggest, baddest MP3 around.

What if there could be an if/then/else statement? Something like if age is less than 30 and attack less than 100, then no fight, else fight.

I'm no programmer and my numbers are merely suggestions. As I said, I'm more concerned about protecting the newbies.[/font][/color]

[aaront222]

Or maybe we can just shut down MD! Then there'd be no MP levels at all! Nothing to complain about!
That was pure sarcasm.
I expect severe neg repping despite this is a legitimize solution that would remove the problem. I DISAGREE WITH THE ABOVE SOLUTION!!!
@Mya I'm Mp5 and I only just got 100 base attack a month ago. It's possible to beat eon's max token Angiens with the right creatures. I have the battle log that says so. I have pretty low stats and I can beat the giants sometimes.

Edited March 13, 2011 by aaront222

[Kafuuka]

This thread is a bit outdated with the new changes, so I'd like to ask for it to be protected against necromancers.

@Eon: I have no idea what ritual you are talking about. I don't see anyone else talking about specific rituals either, so it is pretty safe to think this thread is not about your angien/remains ritual.