Renavoid Memorial Service

[phantasm]

A Memorial Service will be held for Renavoid at the House of Liquid Dust at 20:30 server time on Day 22 (Sunday, January 23rd)

Please be sure to show up a few minutes early in order to pay respects. There will be a few short speeches by some veteran speakers, and a small memorial placed by the house in his memory. All are welcome to come, thought please do try and keep noise to a minimum during the service.

*edit* Here is a link for those who have not been following Innocence's player log.
http://magicduel.com/players/Innocence

Edited January 18, 2011 by phantasm

[Seigheart]

I'm sorry, I must be out of the loop, but what happened to him? O.o

[phantasm]

sorry the link to the story is now added for those to read who have not kept up with the story progression

[Dokutaesu]

I have a question... isn't Storynight about the same time... ???

[phantasm]

I am unsure. This is a momentous occasion, as very rarely do veterans such as Renavoid leave from this world. The time of this event can not be moved or waivered due to trying to make availability for the kings and players who knew Ren well. If this interferes with story time my apologies and perhaps it can be moved a little to work with this schedule.

[awiiya]

[quote name='phantasm' timestamp='1295439631' post='77657']
I am unsure. This is a momentous occasion, as very rarely do veterans such as Renavoid leave from this world. The time of this event can not be moved or waivered due to trying to make availability for the kings and players who knew Ren well. If this interferes with story time my apologies and perhaps it can be moved a little to work with this schedule.
[/quote]

"Very rarely"? Let me just say - Renavoid has left MD a few times. He thought he was leaving when he originally crashed his ship into the House of Liquid Dust, and declared himself dead, and then alive again when he came back. He's not alone: Wodin declared himself dead as have BigC, Khalazdad, Lifeline, BlackThorn and a whole host of people. Veterans fall out of the game often, and nearly just as often they come back.

Awi

[Chewett]

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1295451904' post='77686']
"Very rarely"? Let me just say - Renavoid has left MD a few times. He thought he was leaving when he originally crashed his ship into the House of Liquid Dust, and declared himself dead, and then alive again when he came back. He's not alone: Wodin declared himself dead as have BigC, Khalazdad, Lifeline, BlackThorn and a whole host of people. Veterans fall out of the game often, and nearly just as often they come back.

Awi
[/quote]

I agree totally with Awiiya, Renavoid has left and come back numerous occasions, As have MANY vet's.

What he did was perhaps not mourned about last time but i wouldnt really say there is much difference, he did a little bit with Inno's AL but last time he did a lot more...

Many players declare themselves dead and then come back, So ya wont be seeing me there, Hope you have a nice time, But really if you cared about what he did, you would have done it when he left after all the work he did.

[phantasm]

[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1295458900' post='77695']
I agree totally with Awiiya, Renavoid has left and come back numerous occasions, As have MANY vet's.

What he did was perhaps not mourned about last time but i wouldnt really say there is much difference, he did a little bit with Inno's AL but last time he did a lot more...

Many players declare themselves dead and then come back, So ya wont be seeing me there, Hope you have a nice time, But really if you cared about what he did, you would have done it when he left after all the work he did.
[/quote]


Considering I think I was an MP4 at the time he left, when he crashed the ship, [color="#cccccc"](Page 454 [2009-02-27 23:42:34 - The Traveler][/color]), *which also happened at the House of Liquid Dust* I don't see where the timing is involved to pay respect for all the work he did. Period. Most every one of the names you have said have been gone for a LONG time, or if they do come back its few and far between (as that character of course). The rp events with Inno have happened recently and therefore this is done as a whole. It would be different if someone left and came back every other week, and then I would agree with you.

Does the fact they are gone make their deeds any less valuable? If there was a memorial done for blackthorn and his additions to MD would it make his deeds any less valued, even though he has been gone for a long time? I am surprised by your reaction chewy, I would think you would give more credibility for the event then that. That last sentence was almost aggressive if i had to say.

*edit* oh sorry 2 years ago

Edited January 19, 2011 by phantasm

[Chewett]

Oh i didnt know you were that young when he left, Assuming that you were a normal mp4 and not some of the ones who wait there for years.

It seems i have conveyed myself wrong, My annoyance is that, he has partaken in some Al which has lead people lately to applaud him or whatnot, Wheras all the much greater work he did before is prettymuch unkown by a large majority. I welcome the momorial, but i disagree with it being momentus, considering he has left before and hopefully will come back to leave again (if you get what i mean)

Most wouldnt know he helped found an alliance, I just dislike that you have overblown it as quite a lot of vets have left before, Raven, BigC/Wodin, MRD, Sheops, and there will be many many more.

[Mya Celestia]

[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]People used to complain that the Caretakers didn't do their job. Now they're complaining because they are doing their job. If you don't want to say good-bye to Renavoid, fine. Make your own thread about the comings and goings of veterans. Don't berate the Caretakers for doing what they're supposed to be doing.[/font][/color]

[Metal Bunny]

Wuh? I have a couple of misgivings with this.

1: He left two times before.
2: Which veteran players? The ones he taught, the ones that admired him, the ones that barely knew him, or the ones that knew him from mp3 on and actually know his actual contributions to the game? Please give names.
3: Why a memorial at the house of liquid dust? It is a place of pain, confusion, fear and the place of one of his deaths. I am pretty sure it's more appropriate and more noob friendly to put the memorial in the archives, presumably marind bell's room or preferably her balcony.

Besides that, aren't you blatantly ignoring the other legends, especially the legends who frigging 'taught him the basics and the lure of the game', such as MRD and Wodin.
Wouldn't it be better to continue ren's abandoned effort to install a memorial hall for legends who have contributed massively to the game (and who, quite succintly, left, came back, left and came back again)

*edit*
In response to Mya's response:

We are not complaining about there not being a job done. At least I didn't.
I am not complaining now, I am giving misgivings, meaning that I am confused, yet still willing to help you guys, via criticism and questions.
Surely, as caretakers, not only do you want to do your job, but you want to do it correctly. Which is why I am wondering why you can't do a memorial hall of fame, like Ren wanted. Naturally you can still do a memorial service, but again, I wonder if it wouldn't be better at the archives.

Basically, I would love for you to explain why you are doing what you are doing. Not just how you are doing something.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Metal Bunny

[awiiya]

At this point, I agree with Chewett's previous assertion than any retroactive memorial would be a sensationalized account of the respective veteran's life. There is no way to keep embellishments out of writing, but the further back in time a veteran's prime, the more fiction seems to dominates.

If the memorial project were to be continued, and this is coming from the author wrote the majority of the memorials, only very recent veterans or currently alive people should be canonized. At least then fact may have a fighting chance.

Awi

[Metal Bunny]

Really? Does that mean that simply because me, grido, chewett and dst are the only active ancients left, that our testimonials are moot, obsolete and untrustworthy fiction not worth the paper it is written on?
Does that also mean that, heck, I may as well throw away all of the historical text I wrote for the festival of war and remembrance.

I contest, in fact, you can ask me anything, about almost anyone up until when I joined, and I would still know stuff about people who were older than me, such as BigC, Shoeps or actraiser, for instance.


It's not that fiction will dominate, no. Because there are a handful of ancients who can dismiss those things.
It's just that fact is incredibly boring and underwhelming and much like when America was just founded, you people need heroes, need culture, tradition, something to look up to, something to aspire to.
And sometimes, you won't bother with verifying facts, because fiction is just so much better. Hah, as if Washington never told a lie.

[Maebius]

[quote name='Metal Bunny' timestamp='1295476330' post='77716']
And sometimes, you won't bother with verifying facts, because fiction is just so much better. [/quote]
I am new, and only know of Revanoid's character and contributions through what I've read in the Adventure Logs (which seem rather spartan in some recent months)... but I came to MD, and remain here, for what MetalBunny touched upon.
Whether I am right or not, remains to be seen, but I take what I read here on the forums regarding past events, as Myth.
Not as falsehoods, but Myth.
Stories, to entertain, and teach, and carry the nuggets of Truth forwards to future generations of players.
The Legends will survive in their fashion, even if the ancients pass on. That's the great Game of life.
I'm having fun playing it, why don't we all?

[phantasm]

i am truly surprised by this. Chewy you know as well as any I'm a noob compared to many that still walk this realm. I was lucky enough to have caught witness to such greats as ren, woodin, bigc, khal, gargant, you, grido, dst, bootes, etc etc on and on and on. Also with what MB says, I am in no way forgetting about those others who have paved the way. With the exception of Granos's death, few deaths every truly happen. Mya's was of a different exception in some cases, as for the reasons we know, and is still such a wonderful part of this community. Yes I was that young when Ren crashed into the house.

As to Awiiya, wasn't robin hood, abe lincoln, Fianna Mc' Chumhal *sp*, and so many others a little fictional? Real as they were, and as much as they did, don't they deserve a little embellishment? I spoke with several people before and after I did this decision of ranks up there with some of your twos. Some of us know know of the wide viewpoints of who he was. Does that make it any less worthy? Khal and Bootes who I hardly had the chance to know are heros in things of fiction if they were or were not. Does that make them any less valuable?

Edited January 20, 2011 by phantasm

[Metal Bunny]

I am not speaking of value in their legends, myths or other such stories.
I am speaking of the greater value in the deeds that they have "actually" done.

I am not saying that you are writing falsehoods, or mere exaggerations, I am saying that you need to carefully tread, so as to not sully their memory, nor create impossible and unreachable idols.
The closest thing that comes to explaining this, is the social interaction in MD, which I shall use as an analogy.

If you exaggerate or even write falsehoods for a legend, just to create a myth, then realize there will always be others who know the truth and who will contest your lies.
Much like a godmodder; someone who exaggerates and write incredulous things, improbable even in a magical realm; you'll get some attention, but it will have the adverse effect, most will ignore you.

If you do not check your facts, or put great emphasis on that which took no effort, nor was even enthusiastically done, then all you are doing is misleading the people.
It's a bit like saying that grinding is of greater value than roleplay, without checking to see if it is true, nor explaining what the other aspects of the game may entail.
A better way of putting this is like an LHO who gives advice, and it's not necessarily wrong, just rife with prejudice, dominance as well as sometimes falsehoods.
People will focus on the wrong things and some may not share your opinion, which is subjective by nature, and as such, due to the nature of disagreement, tend to drift away from the game.
Sadly enough this also means they will be less likely to explore other facets of the game which could've been just the thing they wanted to do.
In this case, people, once realizing that certain things were not that great at all, will have less respect for the legend, and perhaps for other legends as well.

Now don't get me wrong, you are most definitely increasing activity with this memorial. You are attracting attention and goodwill towards this legend and by doing so, perhaps other legends as well, along with increasing a novice player's ambition and motivation and eventually bettering the game itself.

However, if something is worth doing, it's worth doing good.
So why not accept criticism, why not accept questions? (you still haven't answered any, all you did was justify fantasy)

I think it's best said with explaining why legends have become legends, even though they all came from the lowly grounds of the common mp3.
You may want to explain what they did, what their motivations were, or what set them apart from the rest. Maybe their personalities or perhaps something enigmatic was the driving force behind their legend.
One thing you must realize however, is that if you ask any adult person who their hero is, who their greatest inspiration is, it is almost always someone real, or realistic.
Someone who was rather limited by the same boundaries as us, yet did something incredible. Not some dragon slaying knight who has a magic sword.
It's a war hero, a poet, a president, someone who was like all of us, yet did something remarkable, someone who stood up and was the first to shout.

Who is admired more? Alexander the Great? Or King Arthur?

Who will be admired more? Renavoid who struggled, achieved real things, made fundamental differences, and overcame adversity and pushed onward, until the day that he died?
Or Renavoid who is cruising around in his 'spaceship', beaming himself around and, just because he fancies it, goes into a troubled place and magically solves everything, and yet despite his great power, somehow died?


Now I know that you are not ignorant of these things and that you are far more likely to do the things in the correct way.
However, you have organized it in such a way that makes it hard for me to understand as to how you actually plan to commemorate his memory.
If you were old enough to know Renavoid for a great long time, I'd have less doubts. If you were close to Renavoid all the time, I'd have less doubt.
But you're not, as you admit it yourself, you are quite young for a 'veteran'.

As such, see these questions and criticisms as a way for you to improve this occasion, so that while you probably will not sully his memory, you will most definitely do his memory and legend a just honour. And as a by-product, all the other legends as well.

So;
1: Who is going to speak and why will they speak?
2: What aspects of Renavoid are you planning on commemorating? As I cannot imagine you to be able to do the whole lot.
3: Are you absolutely certain about the location? What is your motivation for that place, besides being one of the locations where he 'died'.
4: Are you planning on doing this for other legends and is it perhaps not better to get this done in a permanent fashion, par example a memorial hall of fame? And would this not be a better solution in the case of Renavoid suddenly coming back to live.. again?


Now, I know that I wrote fact is or can be boring and that you wrote that some embellishment is necessary. I think people can see that.

[b]I am simply warning you that while fact may be boring, it does not mean that you have a mandate to outright lie. [/b]
Instead I recommend that you simply tell fact, but explain why it borders fiction and why it's just so very great, which is why I am asking who will speak, why they will speak and what of Renavoid they will talk about.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Metal Bunny

[Curiose]

It is a bit off topic:

But:
I would appreciate it if for now on that if you, phantasm, or anyone else for that matter, speak to me about any events that MAY possibly conflict. You have avoided a conflict this time, but please.

I am not that that hard to get a hold of.
My advertising is almost everywhere [unless I am in a situation I am in now].
You can easily ask Awii, or Keith, or anyone participating taking part when the times are.
Or even so, message me about it.

And even so, if you HAD somehow made the date at the same time:

You had better be plenty bloody courteous enough to have moved YOUR date. Why? Obviously because SN has had the date set for... how long now? About a month? Please keep that into consideration. Thank you.

I apologize for this off topic message.

[phantasm]

So;
1: Who is going to speak and why will they speak?
2: What aspects of Renavoid are you planning on commemorating? As I cannot imagine you to be able to do the whole lot.
3: Are you absolutely certain about the location? What is your motivation for that place, besides being one of the locations where he 'died'.
4: Are you planning on doing this for other legends and is it perhaps not better to get this done in a permanent fashion, par example a memorial hall of fame? And would this not be a better solution in the case of Renavoid suddenly coming back to live.. again?

1. A few of the speakers I hope to be there, and talked to already, will be yrth, dst and firs. I thought the value of kings/queens in this place would be well accepted. I know Mya will be there, and hopefully inno, and many other people who knew or didn't know Ren. With such short timing and me just coming out of the Tribunal a few days ago I only had time to talk to a few.
2. I plan on most aspects to be talked about by speakers who knew him well. This is not just to commemorate his great works, but the person who he was. As MB says, lore is a very difficult thing to deal with in MD. It is often better to remember the personality of friendships and foes. That's as important as the works he did. The affect he had upon others as a person. Those truths are just as valuable. I know a little of his deeds, of course many of us know his works with the AL, and much more I hope to find out as others at this ceremony. I don't pretend to be all knowing in any degree or fashion. I am a noob just like the rest of us in our own ways.
3. The location is a bit more of a temporary spot then a permanent one. Both his "deaths" were at the House, and yes while it is a very ominous place full of sorrow filled pasts, it is still a place of importance. Me, Sephi, and other CTs have wanted to make a "graveyard" so to speak in the Tribunal for some time. Obviously with such turmoil in the Tribunal right now, and my limited amount of acess to its clickies and places, it is quite difficult.
4. Yes, we would like to have a memorial for all legends of old, and new ones too as they arise. The great hall, where it would look like statue heads would be, obviously would be the prime place for such things, though as to its design only Mur knows. At some point I would like to see it filled with not only such large names at Khal and Ren, but with smaller ones that some newer people don't even know who played such rolls. How many young people now know of Bootes or Blackthorn, or Phrog. I have the memorials from Awiiya's collection and plan to use them to incorparate it all at soem point. (would right more but have to go to work)

[I am Bored]

I must ask, why at the house of liquid dust? Surely it would be more appropriate to have the memorial someplace where he had much more impact. In otherwords. MDA.

[phantasm]

Again, it is temporary. Hopefully at some point obviously we hope to have a permanent placement. I understand the symbology of it being at MDA. His 'deaths' of sorts both happened at the House. So from a standpoint view of "bury where they lay" it seems the right choice to do it. I simply chose that spot for the value of it is.

Also I agree MB. Awiiya did wonderful work with the memorials i have copies of, and I hope to give them a place just as special as the rest. As Renavoid's is not written yet, I hope that through this ceremony and speaking with people it CAN be written. I will have to have alot of help to get certain details so the memorial can be written. This is a ceremony for those to remember whoever they think Renavoid was. Some only heard him in stories, some like me saw him twards the end when he was flying around in his ship, some who knew him well and liked him, some who don't like him still. The speakers aren't limited to who was named, any such as you MB or anyone that had such time with him is welcomed. In the time-frame i talked to who i could and set what seemed like the best reasonable time frame for all. This isn't some private event, it is a well displayed and given a few days to try and free that time frame. Its a gathering for people to remember, talk, and listen to the stories about an important vet, no different then it will be for you,chewy, grido, dst, Zeiph, ShadowSeeker, Inno, and on and on and on and on. Or let us hope it will be a little less controversial. The written one obviously needs to be elegant and well written in order to be a proper memorial like the ones in awiiya's book. My hope is that THROUGH this event it creates a good medium of information to write it.

As far as the whole coming back thing. I really don't know what the answer to that is, because it's not as if his body is being buried there and he can't dig out. It's not a grave, its a memorial. Why is Renavoid the first and not other vets that some think are more important then other? Timing, We have wanted to do some work in this area for quite some time, and this is the first kind of leaving since Granos "asked to be struck down". I honestly and pretty obviously didn't know this this would have been such a controversial matter, as to needed have been explained in a lot more detail. I hope some of this clears up the matter.

Edited January 21, 2011 by phantasm

[Sasha Lilias]

[color="#FF0000"]It is sad to see, and hear, that Ren has "died" yet again and I give my condolences to those that spent time with him during his final days. No one, but himself, can say wether he has left for good this time, or that he will be back within a year or two. I am sure I can speak for many when I say that he was a good, friendly and welcoming man, and that he will be missed, even if he is only gone for a while.
Renavoid has died twice now, as others have stated. The first my crashing into the house of liquid dust and the second being this one. I can only say that the people that knew him, during his first death, will have seen how big the story was, yet he appeared from the house basically unharmed a year or two later. Perhaps people are just sceptical that he will remain "dead"....though this is only a guess.
Either way, as I said before, he was a good man and a great friend to those that knew him and always will always live within us, along with the other greats.

I hope that he does reappear and if not I wish you(him) the best of luck.

~Sasha Lilias~[/color]

Edited January 21, 2011 by Sasha Lilias

[Asterdai]

[quote name='Mya Celestia' timestamp='1295474215' post='77713']
[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]People used to complain that the Caretakers didn't do their job. Now they're complaining because they are doing their job. If you don't want to say good-bye to Renavoid, fine. Make your own thread about the comings and goings of veterans. Don't berate the Caretakers for doing what they're supposed to be doing.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

i agree with this. it appears that phantasm should invite Metal bunny, DST or as MB said ancient veterens to help with their views of Renavoid and that as they were around when he was, so fact is split from fiction.

i would value any event such as this for ancient veterens, to possibly learn more about what they have done within the game, but i dont see what the problem is with holding a memorial now, as for a lot he is still fresh in our minds from his last and it appears final RP.

couldnt you both use this forum calander thing which Grido was talking about in another thread, so you both know when events are occuring?

[Akasha]

I must say..i read and i don't know if to laugh or to cry.

That story is a blasphemy to shades and the game.
Inno i expected you understood why the AL got stopped, why Ren got cut from the project.

There are no ships in MD, and nobody can enter the House of Liquid dust, and liquid dust is not something that you can wash yourself with/cure or anything else..

You people like to desinform people and keep your own reality and bound it to the general one. This is why it is so hard for you to see outside the box and find things that were left to be discovered, researched...

how could you when you are blindfold and stone-deaf from the ones that simply can't accept or can't leave something wrong and start again in search for better and new.

A memorial service to Ren? for his ..i can't remember how many times he has left, did not counted since it was not that impotant.

There are new players that should be fresh at mind and could contribute with their fresh energy and entusiasm to the searches and questions, maybe finding answers ..why not leave the wrong informations to die in the past, and open your eyes and ears for new ones? Why keep the monstrous story alive when it should have been dead and burried long time ago ??

This is a cicle, every year you people like to dig and pull evrything that is bad, dead, and wrong

Leave the charecters to die and make place for new ones, fresh and untouched by the past mistakes of this realm. If you are truly a veteran you should have learned by now this and worked for and with MD for the perpetuation of population with new, fresh people, informations, not old, wrong, alts came out as children, old players that died and should be left there to die, not hunt the present or future, nor the development and movement of the information, research.

[phantasm]

so what are you saying Akasha, that no veteran, legend or not, should be remembered? Did Khalazdad or Bootes ever do wrong? We are all only human, and I would like to think we are preserving his personality and how he helped others, as well as his works in the AL. As far as the whole spaceship goes, of course that was a little over the top, and therefore not really detailed much in stories now.

Do you mean to say that everything Renavoid did in the AL was wrong? Or just the end, so therefore all the things he did before that are automatically scrapped? Maybe I am confused, but he was Master Archivist for a LONG time for a reason wasn't he? You talk about questions, information, and finding answers. Yet how can the youth attempt to ask questions if they know nothing of the mistakes and triumphs of those of the past? This isn't "LORE" like you always go nuts about every time someone tries to do something involving the past. This is the honest discussion of who Renavoid was to many of us. He DID play a major part in the AL for a long time. He DID impact alot of people in both the positive and negative way. He WAS/IS one of the oldest veterans that stuck around for a long time, no matter how many times he "died". He DID write, with the help of others, songs that were a positive impact on MD as a whole.

The CT's plan on doing more memorials like the one for Renavoid. They aren't to "dissillusion" the past, but to let us, and future players, see what kind of people played MD before them. When Khalazdad or Bootes, or Phrog, or a Johns come up is this going to be a reoccurring moment of your, to "scrap the past and move on with the future"? I know for many facts that it isn't the way it happens in society. Half the reasons any society has and kind of good left in it, is from heros, legends, books, and stories of the past. We are not "making up ancient lore" like Hey Tribunal was built by aliens who liked to play Checkers. We gathered around and told our reflections on a REAL character in MD who affected MANY MANY people.

[Akasha]

most of the AL is wrong..he did not helped, he did wrong, very wrong and that is why this should have been left in the past and dead

and jeez.... =)) you guys really need some activity other then digg and pull out each year [u]same[/u] stories, [u]same[/u] dramas/memorials about same players that left ...btw : Phorg ??

start living in the present not the past