Harp of Dreams

[Sasha Lilias]

[color="#FF0000"]I am looking to have an item created[/color], this item will be used as part of my quest and also part of my new role. The only problem I have is that I do not currently have a wishpoint available. I have to propositions for anyone that is interested, which may be no one.

1) I would be willing to pay 3-4 gc if someone were to create the item for me and then give it to me. I could supply the items needed and description upon request.

2) If someone would do the same above, but I would replace their wishpoint with one that I am owed and also give 1gc

I would wait for the WP that I am owed but it seems that I may be waiting quite a while, due to it being Jester and all , and this would means slight differences in my quest, which I would prefer not to happen.
I hope someone will be able to help me, and I would be eternally gratefull to the one that does.

Thankyou for reading this

~Sasha Lilias~

[Chewett]

The second option is you GIVING someone a WP to give you an item. Or to put it a different way, using a WP for YOURSELF, both of which are against the rules.

[Sasha Lilias]

[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1298062406' post='79026']
The second option is you GIVING someone a WP to give you an item. Or to put it a different way, using a WP for YOURSELF, both of which are against the rules.
[/quote]
I think you misunderstood me
I completed a quest and so I am owed a wishpoint. I am able to use the wispoint however I like. In this case I am saying that if someone used one of their OWN wishpoints, I would be willing to tell Jester to give my owed wishpoint to that person, thus making it fair. None of that is against the rules. So please, try not to look for rule brekaings that do not exist. xx

~Sasha Lilias~

Edited February 18, 2011 by Sasha Lilias

[Chewett]

[quote name='Sasha Lilias' timestamp='1298062584' post='79027']
I think you misunderstood me :)I completed a quest and so I am owed a wishpoint. I am able to use the wispoint however I like. In this case I am saying that if someone used one of their OWN wishpoints, I would be willing to tell Jester to give my owed wishpoint to that person, thus making it fair. None of that is against the rules. So please, try not to look for rule brekaings that do not exist. xx~Sasha Lilias~
[/quote]

Then you should have made it clear. Your history of this makes me think what you are likely referring to.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Chewett

[Sasha Lilias]

Oh thats because he is king, so he can get away with it! ¬_¬ Of course, I never heard Chewett moaning about the rule breaking of that...
Either way. That is not what I am doing. What I am doing is absolutely fine and I am willing to take this up with Mur if Chewett so wishes.

Also on a side note I find the negative votes on my comments rather childish, and I can probably guess who has done it.

I do not care wether my history makes you think of this or not. We have discussed this in private. Instead on announcing things in public you should have sent me a message, that way nothing would have happened to either of us. Also if you read the post properly I did state that I was "owed" a WP.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Sasha Lilias

[Chewett]

[quote name='Sasha Lilias' timestamp='1298063364' post='79030']
Oh thats because he is king, so he can get away with it! ¬_¬ Of course, I never heard Chewett moaning about the rule breaking of that... Either way. That is not what I am doing. What I am doing is absolutely fine and I am willing to take this up with Mur if Chewett so wishes. Also on a side note I find the negative votes on my comments rather childish, and I can probably guess who has done it.
[/quote]

because rhegars post was edited to "delete me" and there is no way to get the original post, your post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever Mcvite.

[Kyphis the Bard]

Actually, Chewet is correct in that what you have stated is against the rules. Your suggestion is simple to define: Wishpoint Trading. From the rules page:
[b]Exchanging WishPoints between you. WP should be rewarded only for good reasons.[/b]

Note that this is the only rule in Bold on the whole page, and is on the list of things that will get you a Permanent ban.

What you are saying is that if someone uses their wishpoint to create an item for you, then you will reimburse them with Coins & a wishpoint. The problem is not in the getting someone to make an item for you, but in the payment of a wishpoint. Also, from what I gather from your information, you are to be awarded a wishpoint, not a wishpoint code, so you could not give it to the person anyway (note: even if you did get a code, this would not stop it being against the rules). All wishpoints have to be earned by the person awarded them

The only ways for you to do this is to find someone willing to do it for just coins or credits or creatures (the 3C's) which was your first suggestion, or wait until you can convince Jester to award you your wishpoint.

(I'ma stop now, since my internet keeps freezing)

Edited February 18, 2011 by Kyphis the Bard

[Sasha Lilias]

Allow me to announce what he said then " If Yrth is allowed to do it then why isn't Sasha?" Now it should make sense.

Also I thankyou for ruining this topic and turning it into an argument, it seems that it is all that you are good at nowadays.

@Kyphis: This is ridiculous. The person would have obtained their wishpoint for a valid reason anyway, be it quest or helping out with something. I would merely be, as you said, reimbursing there used WP.

I will point out now, no one answered why it was okay for a Yrthilian, a king who should know better than any, to do it? And ideas?



[color="#0000FF"]USE the freaking EDIT button!!!
dst[/color]

Edited February 19, 2011 by dst

[Curiose]

Because Kings get special privileges of course!!
/Sarcasm.

If you are going to be complaining about why a King uses/abuses a wishpoint, then you might as well get some VALID accusatory information instead of relying on he said she said.


I don't really care either way, but, have you ever thought that maybe it was something that was necessary? That he had spoken about with Mur?

[Ravenstrider]

How is buying a crafted item different from buying a Windy? As I recall, a couple of topics were made a while ago selling GG drach or Windy, depending on what the buyer wanted...


Anyway, there's a problem here: What if Jester awards the WP to you before you notify him that he should instead give it to person XY?

Other than that, it's bending the rules, not really braking them, imo... If Sasha were to award a WP to someone for that someone to make her an item, that would be abuse. It's a fine line...

[Mya Celestia]

[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]Why hasn't the wp been awarded if it was earned?[/font][/color]

[Sasha Lilias]

[quote name='Curiose' timestamp='1298066022' post='79036']
I don't really care either way, but, have you ever thought that maybe it was something that was necessary? That he had spoken about with Mur?
[/quote]

Have you ever heard someone say "If I bend the rules for one then I will have to bend the rules for all"? Well this is the exact point. If Mur HAS said it was okay for Yrth to do so, then surely it should be okay for me to do so also? Otherwise that would be unfair of course.

[Curiose]

I don't necessarily know the back history regarding it, so I am not making any assumptions. Only plausible factors.

[Sasha Lilias]

[quote name='Mya Celestia' timestamp='1298066835' post='79038']
[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]Why hasn't the wp been awarded if it was earned?[/font][/color]
[/quote]
Because apparently it will take time for the coding to be done (Apop's quest)That plus Jester is hardly on.

Also Curi, I was not making assumptions, I was being sarcastic, just as you were. Hence the "¬_¬".

Edited February 18, 2011 by Sasha Lilias

[Pipstickz]

[b]CAUTION! The below content contains OPINIONS and should not necessarily be understood as fact.[/b]
[quote name='Sasha Lilias' timestamp='1298062001' post='79025']
1) I would be willing to pay 3-4 gc if someone were to create the item for me and then give it to me. I could supply the items needed and description upon request.
[/quote]
This is essentially buying a WP, just done in another order ie. instead of you buying the WP and making the item, they make the item and you buy it, and so against the rules.

[quote name='Sasha Lilias' timestamp='1298062001' post='79025']
2) If someone would do the same above, but I would replace their wishpoint with one that I am owed and also give 1gc
[/quote]
Again, basically trading WP in a different order, so against the rules

And Sasha, Mur hasn't commented on yrth's abuse.

PS: If anyone wants evidence of yrth's abuse, feel free to contact me.

[Brulant]

[b]ECHOING PIPSTICKZ DISCLAIMER
[/b]
Okay… this is the way I see it.

Sasha has earned her wishpoint, but hasn't had it rewarded to her yet.
Person X has also earned a wishpoint and has it to use.

Sasha is essentially asking Person X to use their wishpoint to create an item that they will give to her. Sasha will then have Jester give Person X the wishpoint that would've been hers because Person X used their wishpoint creating the item.

As such, it would be like Sasha paid her wishpoint to create the item.
The coins that she's throwing in are payment for a speed delivery.

Sasha would not be rewarding Person X with a wishpoint to have that item created.

The example I would use is this. You and a friend go out to eat lunch together, but you forget your money. Your friend picks up the entire bill and has essentially paid 2X where X is the cost per person for the meal. Later on, you pay your friend 1X back. So each person has lost 1X of money. Balance is restored, and the numbers crunch as they would if both you and your friend paid for the meal when the bill was due

I'm pretty new and haven't even earned a wishpoint yet, so I don't know how the system works. But I don't personally see anything wrong with the above method.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Brulant

[Curiose]

[quote]Also I thankyou for ruining this topic and turning it into an argument, it seems that it is all that you are good at nowadays.[/quote]

Imma be picky and point out a tiny error in your response here, despite how belated it is.

1. You signed up for this. YOU put yourself on the chopping block like every one else. YOU are responsible for taking whatever blow you may receive from whoever, in this case: Chewett.

2. I also consider Chewy a friend. But when he responds to things, I never get as butt hurt over it as you are portraying. So, to this I can easily say: He does it to everyone.

3. He did not turn this into an argument. Was he rude? I think not. Did he insult you in any way? Not really. Did he say something legit in response to what you put out? Sure. Instead of doing any of those things which are insulting, he pointed out the flaws, which are seemly so: You are slipping on the line of abuse, no matter how fine.

Just my 2.5 cents to add.

Edit: I realize I may be a bit thick skinned, but seriously? You're overreacting. : x

[size="3"][b]I echo the words my prior comrades have spoken before me![/b][/size]

Edited February 19, 2011 by Curiose

[Fyrd Argentus]

So the totally clean way to do this is Sasha finds someone who has a wp, is about to make an item of their own, but is willing to delay their gratification for the coins. Each player (eventually) makes the other's item, and they swap.

But this brings up another idea. Suppose my wish is that somebody ELSE gets a spell, or custom item, or special ability.... Why could I not use my wish to give somebody else powers? It would still be my wish, just somebody else's benefit. (Do you hear those rules bending...?)

[Udgard]

Okay, just sharing my opinions here..

1. I don't think there's anything wrong here. People have traded drach mutation services, aramor to joker mutation services, and items that were made from WPs (not the freely given one). Heck, people have even sold TS for a price (which access requires a WP), and sold uses of their spell. I think it is perfectly legal to trade the things you get from a WP, as long as you're not trading the WP itself.

2. I can understand number two as well, I get where you got the reasoning and at a glance it seems perfectly fine (Brulant summarized the case well here). HOWEVER, there is one thing that makes me thing this should not be done (aka illegal) which you might have not realized. When you do this, the person you pay back the WP to will have some otherwise unattainable bonus; their amount of earned WP would increase by one (not sure about the spent WP, my guess is it would too) which means [u]they can go further inside the wishshop without spending any effort gaining more WPs[/u]. And for the sake of bragging rights, they get +1 on the wishpoints top list. Hence, I don't think this should be done. Otherwise, once the precedent is set, we'll start seeing abuse to unlock the shop using "trade" as an instrument.

If you want to reimburse the WP, you could do so by offering to use your WP if the person wants to make an item in the future, or mutate a drach/colorless joker for them. Stuff that consumes your WP instead of them, just like what you're asking right now, but no directly reimbursing them a WP.

[Brulant]

[quote name='Udgard' timestamp='1298088614' post='79050']
their amount of earned WP would increase by one (not sure about the spent WP, my guess is it would too) which means [u]they can go further inside the wishshop without spending any effort gaining more WPs[/u]. And for the sake of bragging rights, they get +1 on the wishpoints top list. Hence, I don't think this should be done. Otherwise, once the precedent is set, we'll start seeing abuse to unlock the shop using "trade" as an instrument.
[/quote]

I totally overlooked that and it's an incredibly important detail.
I bow to your wisdom Udgard.

[Sasha Lilias]

[quote name='Curiose' timestamp='1298076254' post='79046']
Imma be picky and point out a tiny error in your response here, despite how belated it is.

1. You signed up for this. YOU put yourself on the chopping block like every one else. YOU are responsible for taking whatever blow you may receive from whoever, in this case: Chewett.

2. I also consider Chewy a friend. But when he responds to things, I never get as butt hurt over it as you are portraying. So, to this I can easily say: He does it to everyone.

3. He did not turn this into an argument. Was he rude? I think not. Did he insult you in any way? Not really. Did he say something legit in response to what you put out? Sure. Instead of doing any of those things which are insulting, he pointed out the flaws, which are seemly so: You are slipping on the line of abuse, no matter how fine.

Just my 2.5 cents to add.

Edit: I realize I may be a bit thick skinned, but seriously? You're overreacting. : x

[size="3"][b]I echo the words my prior comrades have spoken before me![/b][/size]
[/quote]

Firstly I started this topic to see if anyone WOULD be interested, not so that I may gain critisism.
Secondly I actually think what he said/did was very rude. Instead of coming to me personally to talk about it, he decided to post it in the public, therefor allowing others to "jump on the bandwagon" and start and argument! I mean look at this topic!
Finally it may be overreacting in your eyes, but you do not realise any of the personal conversations that we have had in the past, and how many times he has done this. Either way, my quest is now going to be ended(even though I have tried to put a lot of effort, time and money into this) and I shall refrain from speaking to anyone, seeing as whenever I do I am either over-reacting or completely wrong.

I am sorry to those that have started the quest..and if you feel you have been hard done by then please come and see me.

[color="#0000FF"]~Sasha~[/color] / [color="#FF0000"]-Mcvitie-[/color]

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

I agree with Udgard, his logic is perfectly sound.

Sasha, why don't you bin option 2 and stick to option 1 or even the option 3/4/5...etc... that might be in your head rather than dropping the whole quest? Could you just RP the item if it comes to that? I mean you got a great response to it and people have been enjoying it etc. Makes me sad to think it's all going to go by the wayside when it doesn't have to.

Z

[Sasha Lilias]

Very well....the quest will still run but will be postponed for this day.

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='Fyrd Argentus' timestamp='1298087564' post='79048']
But this brings up another idea. Suppose my wish is that somebody ELSE gets a spell, or custom item, or special ability.... Why could I not use my wish to give somebody else powers? It would still be my wish, just somebody else's benefit. (Do you hear those rules bending...?)
[/quote]
That idea is doable, the problem is that it would require a lot more effort with organization on Mur's/the council's behalf than the normal method, as well as requiring alt checks. I have made some relatively simple non-standard requests in the past, and each one has taken about a week to get done with the information required.

Back on topic...
I'm glad to hear you are still going to run this quest. While the second option you presented was definitely a bit of a rule breaker, the first option or the option Fyrd and Udgard advocated wouldn't really be abuse at all.
I'll certainly be amused when someone tries to apply that logic to trading bestiaries, though >.> (bestiaries being a standard trade good, just like any other item, should have exactly the same logic, or at least very similar, to this case, but I bet it won't)

[Udgard]

Actually, I don't see any problem with trading beastiaries either.
[quote name='announcement']
You may also trade the bestiary as any other item, allow others to place creatures in it, or even hold multiple bestiary books at the same time.
[/quote]
How much were you betting again?