Deatznce0 Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 [quote name='Firsanthalas' timestamp='1299681425' post='80440'] Exactly, its a learning stage. You are not meant to be able to do and experience everything. You are supposed to learn the basics first. As it stands, some rits have no benefit at MP3 and are not supposed to. In fact, some are detrimental. That's why you have these 'gods' of MP3/MP4 (who, incidentally are often the people that I am referring to when I say numpties). They are at a level they shouldn't be at. They are far and away too advanced to be at those MP levels. Think of it this way. In most countries you start off learning on a low CC motorbike, like a 125 or maybe 250 at most. When you are comfortable with that and most likely not until you pass your driving test do you upgrade to a more powerful bike. Right now we have MP3s spinning around on 2000CC turbo jet engine propelled bikes that can fly and microwave croissants. [/quote] But regardless of whether or not you take away the possibility of certain rituals, at the end of the day they're still in their 2000CC turbo jet engine propelled bikes, they're just unable to fly nor microwave croissants (*Insert sad hungry hungry hobo face here*) but they're still able to outrace those young'ins at least 300 times. With the changes of how Angiens work, I would say at least 99.99% of the rituals now won't really have any permanent impact on the newer players, (Maybe unless you're fighting an entire forest, then I'm not too sure) so in essence I don't really see the problem in this area. Regardless of whether they may be using a ritual filed with max archers or just basic ones; due to their godlike stats they will still be able to overwhelm younger players. My only concern is that by taking away some of the possible rituals, it eliminates even the possibility of younger players from defending against their Aramors which are able to deal 12k damage with one little axe swing. (Or I hope Aramor's have axes...?) Either way I do agree that MP3 is meant to be a learning stage but again, taking away rituals away in my opinion just escalates the learning curve. apophys, Kyphis the Bard and Watcher 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apophys Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 In my opinion, you should be capable of learning everything you need to know for combat by the end of mp4, and be able to tweak and apply it in mp5. That is currently impossible, because you can't experience All targets, you can't experience freeze auras (without buying Nuts), and a few other important things. Pipstickz, xrieg and Watcher 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Then again, all MP4 can attack each other, be it the one soon going to MP5 or the one just coming from MP3. If the fighting was the same from MP4 and MP5, we could as well undo MP4 completely and send people from MP3 to MP5, huh? I find it highly sensible to have a stage 'in between', to train a bunch of creatures to higher levels than available on newbie stage, and still be protected from the really big features like hit all and freeze. They can try and toy with different creatures and rituals, and sacrifice them if they think they don't do them any good to get full xp refund. And when they think they found a good set of creatures, they can move on to MP5, upgrade them some more, and experience a new level of fighting, instead of seeing the rituals that killed them on MP4 again, just with more stats. apophys and Kyphis the Bard 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passant the Weak Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 I agree with Burns on that one. What is important to new players (IMO) is to get into a progressive approach. Each MP level shall bring something new; Something to discover, something to learn, something to enjoy... Whatever but something new. In that regard, most of the recent changes fit perfectly well as far as combat is concerned. The main trouble that I can see from the posts (and from my own experience) is the transition phase, because some players had adopted a "stay low MP" strategy (for whatever reason) and because newbies see most of their creatures unusable due to their "high" level. This is not big deal though, and everyone will adapt easily as soon as they accept the changes. Either by progressing to next MP level or by adapting their strategy. Most of my creatures have gotten frozen with the change and yet I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 General issue that might get attention now: Freeze and Antifreeze was kind of broken all along. Now it occurs that a creature that is frozen due to mp-restriction can be unfrozen, and that way used in combat. E.g. rusties, antifreeze token, etc. Proposal as following: Instead of the current state of art, meaning a switch frozen-not frozen, creatures get a freeze counter on them, with each freeze adding a point, and each anti-freeze reducing a point. That way, anti-freeze auras that go off before freeze do something useful for a change, and creatures that get frozen 2-3 times don't get unfrozen by one anti-freeze hitting them. And creatures that are frozen due to MP-requirement get 20 points by default. Don't know about the coding effort, but definitely worth a shot imo. Pipstickz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTLexceeded Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) I like Burns idea. Though creatures beeing unfrozen by ability or token i think is just a bug waiting to be fixed. Though i wanted to say my piece of mind on what Ravenstrider said before and nobody noticed. Why not just stop mp5s from using max creatures? I mean from what i know and hear in mp5 the most powerfull rituals can only be faced with identical or similar ones. That renders mp5 fighting a bit boring In my opinion. Its really nice to see all these different rituals now on mp4 working. Its fun to battle and face a different logic than your own. Makes you think harder. I now wish to remain mp4 forever simply because i like the variety of options i have, and i dont care so much of having a maxed angien if that means i can only use maxed angiens, drachs and maybe some birds... Bottom line: fighting in mp5 seems boring. PS i love the changes and i want to see more. Edited March 15, 2011 by TTLexceeded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaront222 Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) I should be able to max my heretic archers at Mp5. Mp5 now has another important creat: UP. Angien rits have TONS OF VIT and the UP steals it all while your trees abuse the stolen Ve to protect and your damages RIP THEM A NEW ONE!!! Edited March 15, 2011 by aaront222 Deatznce0 and Chewett 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted March 16, 2011 Root Admin Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='TTLexceeded' timestamp='1300223399' post='80717'] I like Burns idea. Though creatures beeing unfrozen by ability or token i think is just a bug waiting to be fixed. Though i wanted to say my piece of mind on what Ravenstrider said before and nobody noticed. Why not just stop mp5s from using max creatures? I mean from what i know and hear in mp5 the most powerfull rituals can only be faced with identical or similar ones. That renders mp5 fighting a bit boring In my opinion. Its really nice to see all these different rituals now on mp4 working. Its fun to battle and face a different logic than your own. Makes you think harder. I now wish to remain mp4 forever simply because i like the variety of options i have, and i dont care so much of having a maxed angien if that means i can only use maxed angiens, drachs and maybe some birds...Bottom line: fighting in mp5 seems boring.PS i love the changes and i want to see more. [/quote] I would recommend coming to mp5 to see the variaty of rituals. Because Mp6 is not a pernament stage, there is no no real point to stopping crits working that need mp6 to upgrade. What you effectively do is say that you can only use these best crits for a small period of time, then you have to freeze them and let someone else use them. No one has effectively been mp6 for a great period of time. Fighting in mp5 is very intresting, you have so many choices with combo rits, TS and UP now to really rock thigns up. And that you can fight such an array of creatures that any mixture has unpredictable effects. Before you start saying that "X seems boring" come and have a look, becuase to me mp6 seems boring, but i cant comment on it having had no desire to be one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deatznce0 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1300257719' post='80728'] I would recommend coming to mp5 to see the variaty of rituals. Because Mp6 is not a pernament stage, there is no no real point to stopping crits working that need mp6 to upgrade. What you effectively do is say that you can only use these best crits for a small period of time, then you have to freeze them and let someone else use them. No one has effectively been mp6 for a great period of time. Fighting in mp5 is very intresting, you have so many choices with combo rits, TS and UP now to really rock thigns up. And that you can fight such an array of creatures that any mixture has unpredictable effects. Before you start saying that "X seems boring" come and have a look, becuase to me mp6 seems boring, but i cant comment on it having had no desire to be one. [/quote] Sorry Chewett but in my opinion I'd say keep it that way, if the lower MPs are going to be subject to this I really don't think that the higher ones should be allowed to escape it. For me, it seems more like a incentive to retain your power as an MP6 (or a will to move up to that stage in you're an MP5), perhaps we might start seeing more players advertise for permanent adepts and protect-ees, the current change certainly looks somewhat beneficial in this sense. Edited March 16, 2011 by Deatznce0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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