adiomino

[quote name='werewolfer' date='16 June 2010 - 10:37 AM' timestamp='1276645027' post='61960']
Well looking in loreroot there are alot of intrrsint creatures.But alos it seem ther eroom for no ones as well.Since the first topic was closed a thought a new one should start up.I have a few ideads.but alos post ideas on how to use the current creatures effitivly.
[/quote]
"Well, Looking in Loreroot, there are a lot of interesting creatures. There also seems to be room for new ones, as well. Since the first topic was closed I thought a new one should be started. I have a few ideas. But also, please post ideas on how to use the current creatures effectively"

Werewolfer, your post was quite difficult to understand. And i'm still a little confused. Just edit it And yeah loreroot creatures are interesting. aren't they all?

What you seem to be suggesting is that we of the community, when doing anything, must ask anybody who will be affected by the action before acting.

Examples: Before killing someone, you must make sure they know something is happening. Before tying them down, make sure to say *tries to tie down personx*.

I agree that in the case of something "imaginary" (lacking in-game support) it is necessary and polite to make sure that all parties in an action are in agreement. If I were to cast a spell I didn't have on somebody, I would make sure that they were going to play along before I did it.

In the case of a game mechanic, such as spells, items, etc, I think it is perfectly acceptable for someone to act without the permission of another. We jail people without asking them whether they want to be jailed, and I think it's fine to kill them without asking as well. If the game gives you the power to do something then everybody else has to abide by that. The only set of rules we ALL have to obey are the ones that are hard coded. The social rules, which is the majority of roleplay, are best left to group consensus.

I've been criticized before for casting a GoE spell on someone without asking, and people have called me rude for doing so. It is within my power, and so I feel no guilt, and so perhaps I am deserving of their criticism. However, I still hold that if someone is given the power to enforce their actions, it is not in poor "manners" to act on their desires without asking.

That is what this conversation boils down to: what is the proper etiquette of roleplaying? In my case, I do not think casting spells without asking is rude. I do think that using asterisks to perform actions that are not hardcoded is rude. That is a line I draw, though I can see how you would draw a vastly different line. I will maintain my belief, whether or not it is considered rude.

Awi

Obviously, the whole thing could have been handled better. I made many mistakes in running and playing the quest.

Still, if I had it to do over again, I'd not change much, if anything. I don't want to get sidetracked into a discussion of the idea of the events' reality or verisimilitude, though you raise valid points there. I will say, in brief, that some of your objections are based on things beyond the control of an ordinary player with few special powers or privileges. If I must, I will address all your objections line by line.

There is a group of people in the game who seem to despise roleplaying and to not understand the point of it. I have long believed that game mechanics must govern all roleplayed disputes, and after all the time I've spent running and playing tabletop RPGs, I am set in that belief. I was most interested in persuading people "on the fence", who prefer combat and might be interested in roleplay if they saw a point to it. I was--and remain--far, far less worried about pleasing people who are fundamentally opposed to roleplay, or people who will roleplay anything whatsoever when they are bored. A story must have conflict in order to offer interest, and no matter how you look at it, Mya's murder was interesting.

It's all very well to say roleplaying must be based on consent, and indeed it must, but I ask you to consider the scope of the thing and how many people must be involved to carry it off, the limitations of what tools are available, and the impossibility of pleasing or persuading everyone. Your forthrightness about how you would have reacted to Zleiphnir's murder is bold and appreciated - and it is, in fact, very like the reaction of the dagger's first victim - yet it does make me appreciate Mya's reasonable nature and strong roleplaying skill all the more.

I am sensible of your kindness in waiting to post this, and in praising the effort. Thank you. The thing was fun, and I will do something very like it again as soon as the chance presents itself.

[b]Edited for grammar, typos, and clarity[/b]

Now that the Mya story is over and all has played out, I want to comment on something that came up early on but which was swept under the carpet for one reason or another. There was some debate over how the killing of the character was done, most of which involved people fervently disagreeing with the person who brought the issue up. I totally understand refusing to discuss the issue unless the person involved complains themselves, therefore, I'm making this on a general level.

1) A person was killed using a scripted item and nothing else.
- You don't have to accept an item, it automatically arrives with you
- No RP was done to go with this

The first issue being that the individual has absolutely no forewarning or acceptance of events. Now, you can argue that this is what happens in real life or that this brings an essence of surprise, but in any situation where someone is going to be killed, unless you sniper rifle them or poison them, there is sneaking about, maybe a struggle etc etc but certainly some form of fore-warning. The item was a knife, not a rifle or poison and if we really want to make it real the killer should be doing jail time along with anyone involved. It isn't "coddling" as one of you put it, to assume that you wont just randomly die out of the blue when you log into a game you play not having consented to it and with no forewarning or
action to dictate why. I'm glad Mya seemingly took it all in good spirit, but if it had been me and someone had killed Zleiphneir with no thought to me for the benefit of running a story which I also had absolutely no knowledge about and which there was no visible set up for...I would have gone mad.

2) Game mechanics

Many of you argued the point that the reason it is ok and the reason it is a real story is because it used game mechanics. There is an unequivical fact that someone was dead due to a particular item sent by a particular person and that nobody had to witness it to confirm that. Although blue text wise all you would have to do is post the chat log...I do agree if you can use the game mechanics then fantastic, but i would expect both not one or the other, isnt that what everyone is always harping on about? and in fact, isn't that how a certain group were "held captive" because they could have left whenever they wanted mechanics wise, so was their captivity any less valid? I would have expected some actual story to go with it as it is pretty meaningless the way it was done, just as meaningless as how the person was returned. Whilst I appreciate it was fun and gave people something to do, those two things coupled for me just made the story a bit of a farce in honesty - which was pointed out quite nicely half way through by someone laying claim to responsibility just because they could. The way it was done also leaves open the possibility of just doing it for the hell of it, to make this point I could script a number of items and just randomly go about giving them to people I want dead - which frankly seems ridiculous, or is it just me?

I wish also to just say that the idea was a briliant one, and people obviously had a lot of fun - even I joined in a little, and hence why I have waited until now to comment so as not to ruin it. However the repercussions of how it was done worry me for the aforementioned reasons, and I think it does need to be discussed.

Z


[Spoiler]
-------------

Quotations from the main thread for evidence:


Dst, Post 9
Using an item called Stone Dagger.

Tarq, Post 15

Third, to all others: If this quest seems like a dumb idea, I'm sorry. I've been waiting for something like it for a long time. I refuse to write a

quest about "made-up stuff" - the murder of Mya Celestia by another Player Character (Ivorak) using game-mechanical means (the stone dagger) really

happened in MD, and is not an event that is contingent upon observers to agree that it happened (as dst helpfully pointed out). No asterisks were

involved in Mya's death, and there is nothing meta-gamed about her corpse. You don't have to post here if you don't like it, though your opinions

are welcome if you absolutely must share.

Sharazhad, Post 22

With all due respect, I think the way it was handled was poor form. Mya had no idea what was coming and something like that goes against gaming

courtesy.

Pip, Post 23

So, Shara, basically you think that people shouldn't involve other people in anything negative, or undesired, without permission? ... I'm not saying

that pre-planning things is bad, but overdoing it just makes it...well, it takes half of the fun out.

Awiiya, Post 24

No murderer asks their victim before killing them... that would be very counter-intuitive...Mya isn't supposed to be happy about being killed. She's

been thrown into a position, and it's up to her to play it how she likes.

The reason people dislike the "bad RP" is that it is based on imagination and astericks. This is a concrete activity with real repercussions. I'm

sorry if she doesn't like that reality.

Aysun, Post 25

Forgive me, but I think what you're describing is called 'coddling'...Someone possessed a tool that was created with the ability to actually slay a

player, and they used it. This item was not built in with a 'ask your victim first if it's ok' safety lock...Now, the 'good' can either fight back

with some real force of their own or take it.

Tarq, Post 30

I didn't want to spoil the surprise or the shock.

Tarq, Post 36

The point of this "quest" is that it is an organic story in which players can interact with each other in a semi-structured way.

Assira, Post 67

We are the cause of Mya's death and the chaos it has caused

Mya Celestia, Post 81

Mya's body was regenerated by Loreroot and the Magic Duel realm.[/Spoiler]

Well looking in loreroot there are alot of intrrsint creatures.But alos it seem ther eroom for no ones as well.Since the first topic was closed a thought a new one should start up.I have a few ideads.but alos post ideas on how to use the current creatures effitivly.

There seems to be something important about tomatoes in this game. Why don't you just create a Tomato Principle or something? That would increase the tomatoiness even more. Why are tomatoes so important?

I want an answer from Mur/Grido

Because they are good for you...hmmm tomato principle...now theres an interesting idea

[quote name='Clock Master' date='11 June 2010 - 05:24 PM' timestamp='1276295063' post='61695']
I thought chaos and anarchy is what you wanted. I still had spells to cast if my own teammate didnt killed me
[/quote]
Blame Mr. Bunny's overwhelming awesomeness for not realizing who was on his own team

well no then you bid 19 to stay on top and kyphis said 10 more so total 29 SC

[quote name='druzik' date='08 June 2010 - 10:40 AM' timestamp='1276011605' post='61368']
I think it will be great...ehh now i have dilemma on which side fight...;p
[/quote]


The side of Justice of course. Mya Celestia was a pawn and an innocent victim of circumstances beyond her control. The bad boys need to be spanked. he he he he

....um ya Hi....Rhaegar, I respect you. In the short time I've been here, you have become a good friend, but I feel as though you are making a mountain out of a mole hill as it were. Somehow I think you've had all this animosity built up for quite a while towards things. I could be wrong but it just seems to me like this is a whole lot of back logged anger toward Firsan. I've gotten to know several people here and among all of them Firsan seems like one of the most fair minded and calm people, making him an idle choice to lead. I'm also under the impression that you haven't actually talked to him about deep rooted issues that you have or any ideas that you've gathered, instead letting it all fester into what is now a two page topic that has become a rant. For the sake of stability and sanity. I ask you please lay down the sword and come to the table and discuss your ideas with Firs. He may disagree with some of them but he may also offer advice of how to make things better. I would hope this does not come to a head and things are taken too seriously in and out of game. Thats my piece sorry if it's not my place.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 04:31 PM' timestamp='1275946316' post='61307']
you wouldn't know me if you think it would stay on this Sharazhad.

I curse this day to make me sharp my sword against my own, but this won't end here Firsanthalas, you just started a long journey.
There are the ones who know about your treason on Loreroot from long ago, those who remember. The spirits of the old will hunt you down, usurper, and I'll do my best to please them, this is my promise.
[/quote]

Rhaegar.. You are my friend, Firsanthalas is my friend, and so many stand with you on this. But what you do not see are the words that lay between the lines.
The conflict you both share is borne of the fact that you both want to improve Loreroot, both of you do, but you each have different methods of doing this and because of those different methods it has caused countless arguments between the two of you. You both are prideful and you both carry egos. You will come to find (I hope), as I came to find, that there is room for both of your egos if you would both be willing to look past the anger that each of you hold toward each other and see that you share these common goals.

You can choose to ignore this post, or choose to negative rep me for it... but I have stood where you stand Rhaegar. I know exactly how you are feeling at the moment and I understand why.. but plotting against people who would support you does nothing good. Your argument and your anger is with Firsanthalas, not the whole of Loreroot.

What would have solved all of this is simple communication, if you were both willing to communicate properly with each other with an open mind but neither of you were willing to do so. Call me on this if I am wrong, but neither of you were willing to go and speak about problems and issues and opinions without imposing each other's ego on one another because of hard feelings.

I have stood in the middle of you two for a long time, trying to keep the peace...trying to keep things from exploding. Now I am worried that there is nothing I can do and that this incident will divide Loreroot more than unite it, which is all I had hoped to accomplish when I was leader of the Guardians. Should it come to that, I will not stand on any sides even if I am removed from the Eclipse and cast out of my land. There will be no war for me, not between friends.

As to Firsanthalas' treason.. I made my peace with that a long time ago. The simple fact is that he held the same goal as I did. He also wanted to improve Loreroot and personally I found nothing at all wrong with him wishing to do so.

That is all I have to say, do your worst MD but know you will get nothing but a pleasant smile from me.

[b]Edit: Edited for grammar and sentence structure.[/b]

--picture removed due to following events--

I announce founding of the Rangers of Loreroot.
From now on, it will stream to collect the finest fighters of Loreroot, its elite army, with high requirements to join yet at same time also a school for those who want to be 'worthy'.

It's first leader is Sparrhawk, its structure will be explained to its members, and developed based on its increasing size. Contacting him if you want to join.

summary:
---- it is an honorary guild, for those who don't know, it will NEVER be a new alliance ----
---- Loreroot citizens only ----


ps. thank you blackwood forest for making the logo

I have a shade that I would sell... his age 96 (on day 153)...
PM me your offert where do you want...
I'll sell it only if I get a good offert that satisfy me... there isn't limit of time...

Highest bid:1 rusty with tokens
[emeraldglare]
[kellethafire]
[enlightning]
[jewelshards]
[purpurmoon]
[firedrop]
[purpurfog]
[osirisbelt]
[onyxfangs]
[darkshield]
[darksky]
[blacktear]

I didn't really bother to read the entire topic but.. It seems that the discussion among the many of you has gone off to "stats". To me it is not how the ggg allows players to gain stats taht is bad. It is that it uses up a lot of time... Typically every 8 minutes or so a player could get 3-10 wins on a ritual of creatures depending on how busy it is. And it can get very, very busy. Grinders spend their time there and sometimes it seems like the ggg is their home while they wander off to No mans land and other places only occasionally.. I'm not entirely sure on how the ggg could be destroyed. Though i'm sure... it could take quite a bit of time. Though i have to say i am quite bored of the ggg. It takes time away from the days that are far too short. That is really my only opinion. For now..

Another recurring problem seems to be that the Vets are CRUSHING any new mp5. (this is an idea that will require lots of changes)
Mp2,Mp3,Mp4,Mp5 stay the same. Then Mp6 becomes not protector but another fighting stage, Mp7 becomes what is now Mp6, and so forth.
I understand you think the idea stated above is very dumb. It's acutally smart just hard to do.m
It will allow the community to combatatively spearated enough so that the new Mp5 can survive and the Vets can fight vets and not PUMMEL the new Mp5 giving them little chance of gaining Vet-like power.

If this post is quoted please quote all of it because if you chop it up the wrong ideas will come across.

[quote name='phantasm' date='03 June 2010 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1275604256' post='60915']
As to the rest of these GGG complainers lets look at the list.

No One - Ancient Veteran who can at any time fairly well dominate all MP5s who aren't ancients
Burns - Ancient Veteran who can at any time dominate most ALL mp5's should he chose too
Redneck - Veteran who used the GGG, gained huge stats, then turned against it and now whines.

See a pattern here? Most all people who are "against the GGG" are old veterans who have an overwhelming advantage over most of their class. I remember quite well when Burns went around attacking anything that moved and destroyed it for fun. Redneck is much the same. No One is one of the few who protest who I can say usually give others a fair chance.
[/quote]
a) I am against the GGG. Not as openly as others, but I'm still against it. All three of the people you listed, and even you, phantasm, can beat me in a fight.
b) Burns/redneck attacking people for fun? Sure, isn't that the point of a GAME? To have FUN? Besides, fun may be one reason, but it is not the only one. Or do you spend too much time in the GGG to remember what the rewards for combat are? Burns is leader of GG alliance because of attacking other alliance members for loyalty (may not be the only method, but it's definitely one).

When did it become wrong to enjoy ACTUALLY battling people? Can somebody please fill me in?

1- this is supposed to be quest not a rant about how RP is done and who gets to piss off who or who RP's for the longest time
2- dst solved 2 out of 3 questions , like it or not that's a fact
3- MD is NOT a fair game and it's not supposed to be .You cannot expect people to think or act the way you "like" it.

About the quest:
Fact : Mya chose to "play" dead or Ivorak chose to kill Mya.( playing dead means you stay dead IMO - resurrection is quite improbable after this much time , but then again who knows what might happen ).Since the regen ability was stopped means that the killer wanted her dead - for good.

Since 80% of the murder are pasional ones i'd say either Mya had an affair with Ivorak - very possible , or Ivorak had a crush on Mya and the wedding was to much. That could be the WHY. we need to investigate more about Ivorak reasons starting with the people who knew him and Mya. Though my bet is still on the murder of passion.

Yes, I am. I didn't like the post. Therefore I neg repped it. Everyone does it. So why are you bringing it up now? O.o

Ok. I can be creative with the answer but I still believe I was right. She really deserves it. For all the bad wishpoints she gave.

And hey! I solved 2/3 of the mystery from the first shot! And I did it before anyone else. I am GOOD! And I am proud of myself!

Thankd but keep your pats for others that enjoy being spanked



And I also know who has the revive spell! Ha! Eat that!

So...who?
Ivorak
How?
Using an item called Stone Dagger.
Why?
Cause he can. Cause maybe she deserves it .

And I can also tell you at what time he did it
2010-06-02 04:27:xx (I know the second also but I don't want to freak you out ).

Now:did I get the wish point for solving the mystery?

[quote name='Chewett' date='14 May 2010 - 03:35 PM' timestamp='1273869354' post='59830']
From by the look of it, the judges shouldnt be known so no one can bribe them, Thus by posting that you want to be a judge, you wont be considered. Please read the post more carefully next time.
[/quote]

I don't take bribes. Or at least I don't get influenced by them after I take them. But I never take them in the first place.

I am volunteering to be a judge.
(I sent a PM I'm just replying in both places to play it safe)
(I READ THAT YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO POST HERE FOR THIS PURPOSE!!! I'M VOLUNTEERING IN MANY WAYS OTHER THEN THIS INCLUDING PM!!!)

Sold...