[Law And Lawyers]

[quote name='Kamisha' date='01 March 2010 - 10:16 AM' timestamp='1267456617' post='55571']
I do not claim to be wise
[/quote]
This is why I quoted Jester and not yourself. I understand your position as a private and independent citizen, however, Jester should display wisdom and temperance as the ruler of a land. While you don't claim to be wise, it is merely expected of Jester due to his position.

[Law And Lawyers]

[quote name='Jester' date='28 February 2010 - 10:45 AM' timestamp='1267371945' post='55486']
"Discussion is not about 'winning, but about sharing toughts and learn what other people think about it, or to get a compromise between two parties." - Orlando Gardiner

An interesting viewpoint for a lawyer.
[/quote]
Discussions aren't about winning. However, legal cases aren't discussions. You yourself have just committed a logical fallacy by equating two things that aren't necessarily equal in an attempt to debase or undermine the position of one of your peers. Again, unwise.

[Argumentations]

I've never studied formal debate, but I don't believe you can determine who is winning simply by the number of arguments supporting a particular side. We're missing too much information, as you've said nothing about the logical soundness and validity of the statements being made. For instance, it's entirely possible that any number of the arguments contain logical fallacies. I believe that we would need more detail as to the logic being applied.

[Law And Lawyers]

[quote name='Akasha' date='26 February 2010 - 01:25 AM' timestamp='1267165540' post='55264']
That is what court will mean in MD, so before making plans and groups, better take a look at what it is in the announcements.
[/quote]
First, I see nothing in any of those rules that precludes legal representation. In fact, many of them require organization, planning, diplomacy, concise communication, and efficient timing - all things offered by lawyers and their law offices. In my opinion, most players would greatly benefit from receiving legal counsel. Many understand well their personal strengths and weaknesses and may not feel competent or confident enough to represent themselves in a trial wherein eloquent and effective speech, or the ways in which evidence is portrayed, may sway the verdict.

Second, with all of the recent talk of stifled roleplay and player involvement, I would think that those in positions of authority and power would do well to foster an atmosphere of freedom and creativity. I understand that things need to remain civil, orderly, and manageable and I'm also quick to remind others that this game belongs to yourself and Mur. Players should be involved in creative ways without being greedy, selfish, and disrespectful to the desires of this game's creaator. However, too many times I see harmless ideas silenced for reasons that I am unaware other than some personal grudge or a grappling to maintain control.

[First Trial- Jacoand Vs Granos, Originally: Conned By Granos]

Since (or if) Granos perpetrated the crime in the name of roleplay, I would like to see the issue resolved by players or governing bodies in game (rather than by Mur). If Granos is not compliant with the rules of roleplay, then it should be deemed a scam and therefore punishable beyond the scope of game mechanics. It seems to me, through my reading of this thread, that Granos has consciously sparked debate and is willing to accept its consequences, perhaps in response to the recent threads claiming that MD is boring or lacking in mystery and intrigue. The thrill of resolving this issue as a community of players should far outweigh the loss of pass Papers or reputation, VP, XP, or whatever else Granos has at stake. Since the realm has kings, perhaps the kings should have dungeons?

I've been unable to log in for quite some time now, so it is possible that players are rallying on their respective sides of the issue in order to roleplay this interesting turn of events, but if this thread is the only place its being discussed, shame on all of you, and Jaco more so than the rest.

[Quotes]

[quote name='SageWoman' date='21 February 2010 - 09:53 AM' timestamp='1266763994' post='54898']
"A bird in the hand is worth two in the Bush."
[/quote]
*shrugs*

A word in the land is worth two in the forum.

A Shade in the sand is worth two in the dust.

[Poetry Contest]

[quote name='Indyra' date='21 February 2010 - 03:15 AM' timestamp='1266740105' post='54877']
Did anyone ever considered that this type of contest is a big disadvantage for the players who aren't native speakers of English ?

i bet that many of us wright beautiful poems that when translated into English loose their charm...i wonder what to do ...post mine in in my native language ?
but then again ...how could you judge it ?
[/quote]
MD is varied enough that there is something for everyone. I've learned to focus on quests that I excel at, and would encourage others to similarly find quests that effectively complement their skill set, language included. Some people don't write poetry at all, others aren't good at math...not every quest will be winnable by every person that it's open to.

[Md Is Boring]

[quote name='Orlando Gardiner' date='19 February 2010 - 08:19 AM' timestamp='1266585596' post='54761']
GGG is unlikely to dissapear. trough three main reasons:

- it almost the only place (except for sanctuaries) to find people without being ripped, almost the most sociable place in whole md.[/quote]
If those players were dispersed, they would find other places to gather, and perhaps places more conducive to constructive game play.


[quote]- people will always want easy wins and being better the easy way, as chewett already said. Close GGG, and people will find eachother elsewhere and restart a new form of easy grinding.[/quote]
As painful as it may be, I believe the only remedy for a great deal of current issues is to implement a stat cap which scales with mind power. It would promote balance and set exciting and attainable goals (as opposed to being overwhelming) for new players. There are few games with open ended stats and abilities and for good reason.

[Discussion about reviving MD]

[quote name='Jester' date='18 February 2010 - 03:52 PM' timestamp='1266526329' post='54699']
I said people cannot REVIVE MD, do you guys read the posts you quote? Revive implies bringing the dead back to life. Revitalize implies restore strength. The people in MD can revitalize MD, and it is important. Something as simple as helping a new player or as complex as the Tainted scenario with Granos and Ailith help out the community. Do they REVIVE it? No. But they make MD more fun, which is what is important.
[/quote]
Since it appears as this entire argument is merely over semantics, just so that everyone is clear...

[quote name=Merriam-Webster]
Main Entry: re·vive
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈvīv\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): re·vived; re·viv·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French revivre, from Latin revivere to live again, from re- + vivere to live — more at quick
Date: 15th century

intransitive verb : to return to consciousness or life : [b]become active or flourishing again[/b]

transitive verb 1 : to restore to consciousness or life

2 : [b]to restore from a depressed, inactive, or unused state[/b] : bring back
3 : to renew in the mind or memory[/quote]

Granos, I'll take the dictionary, but I'd rather not drown in a fire if that's alright with you.

[Discussion about reviving MD]

[quote name='Jester' date='18 February 2010 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1266520726' post='54689']
I would expect more wisdom from an EX-Sentinel, but this would be better discussed in another thread.
[/quote]
If that's a threat - spare me. If it were honesty then have me removed and save me the trouble. As of Server time: Feb 18 21:28 I still have my horns, though I possess little desire to employ my skills under one such as yourself.

Create a thread if you feel inclined, and I'll be happy to join you there though you may not be.

[Discussion about reviving MD]

[quote name='Jester' date='17 February 2010 - 06:18 PM' timestamp='1266448726' post='54652']
A player trying to revive MD is like trying to revive a person who is drowning by throwing a bucket of water at their face.


EDIT: To expand on that, I didn't mean players shouldn't try to make the game more fun. I simply meant that MD wouldn't be MD without Mur, and only Mur could "revive" the game.
[/quote]
I'd expect more wisdom from a king...and less somber from a clown.

This game [b]IS[/b] its community of players. They create their own excitement through creative quests and roleplay, and, while Mur and the AL provide a focused outlet, neither are entirely necessary for the society to peaceably operate. Player involvement and player motivation are lacking as much if not more so than the same from Mur.

[Md In General]

I love the PAL idea, and it seems like a fantastic compromise which allows Mur to maintain creative control while relinquishing some influence to the players. I know many have already expressed this but the AL, along with MD's rich history and dynamic - player influenced - future, is what attracted me to the game. I'm willing to wager that it's also what makes/made players feel involved and willing to stick around.

[Just A Small Sugestion For The Years To Come]

[quote name='Grido' date='11 February 2010 - 06:17 AM' timestamp='1265887028' post='54275']
templates of rituals is a nono, there is a reason why you have to remake them, the creatures "forget" the rituals, so you have to teach them it again

if i had more than 3 mins till i had to sign off, i'd use the search function to find the other threads about this....*cough*
[/quote]
I kind of like the idea of a graphic interface, even if it doesn't affect gameplay. Rituals could be built by dragging and dropping creatures into certain slots and each ability and target could be given an icon for selection rather than a text dropbox. It would be a little more interactive and aesthetic.

[Poetry Contest]

Not 200 words, but specially written for this contest.


Once a goddess named for love’s embrace,
Whose auburn tresses framed her gentle face.
Twice a royal, crowned in barren land,
Left to toil the ground and tend the sand.
I left my love a pain too great to bear.
My sterling dove, what fate becomes the fair?
What deadly tone reviled in loneliness?
The melody, my child, is only this:
The sound of hollow halls and trifled time
Unbound by solid walls and stifled eyes.
It would my deepest sorrow all amend,
Were we to be tomorrow whole again.
With hands entwined as lace but souls unfurled,
to stand in stately grace before the world.
But I left my love, a pain too great to bear,
and it remains too late to find her there.

[Beautiful Poetry]

Thanks all, and keep them coming. Grido, "Grieve Not" is fantastic.

Nothing from these fine poets yet...

Alfred, Lord Tennyson - A Farewell
[quote]Flow down, cold rivulet, to the sea,
Thy tribute wave deliver:
No more by thee my steps shall be,
For ever and for ever.

Flow, softly flow, by lawn and lea,
A rivulet then a river:
Nowhere by thee my steps shall be
For ever and for ever.

But here will sigh thine alder tree
And here thine aspen shiver;
And here by thee will hum the bee,
For ever and for ever.

A thousand suns will stream on thee,
A thousand moons will quiver;
But not by thee my steps shall be,
For ever and for ever.[/quote]

Edgar Allan Poe - Lenore
[quote]Ah, broken is the golden bowl! the spirit flown forever!
Let the bell toll! -a saintly soul floats on the Stygian river -
And, Guy De Vere, hast thou no tear? -weep now or never more!
See! on yon drear and rigid bier low lies thy love, Lenore!
Come! let the burial rite be read -the funeral song be sung! -
An anthem for the queenliest dead that ever died so young -
A dirge for her, the doubly dead in that she died so young.

"Wretches! ye loved her for her wealth and hated her for her pride,
And when she fell in feeble health, ye blessed her -that she died!
How shall the ritual, then, be read? -the requiem how be sung
By you -by yours, the evil eye, -by yours, the slanderous tongue
That did to death the innocence that died, and died so young?"

Peccavimus; but rave not thus! and let a Sabbath song
Go up to God so solemnly the dead may feel no wrong!
The sweet Lenore hath "gone before," with Hope, that flew beside,
Leaving thee wild for the dear child that should have been thy bride -
For her, the fair and debonnaire, that now so lowly lies,
The life upon her yellow hair but not within her eyes -
The life still there, upon her hair -the death upon her eyes.

Avaunt! tonight my heart is light. No dirge will I upraise,
But waft the angel on her flight with a paean of old days!
Let no bell toll! -lest her sweet soul, amid its hallowed mirth,
Should catch the note, as it doth float up from the damned Earth.
To friends above, from fiends below, the indignant ghost is riven -
From Hell unto a high estate far up within the Heaven -
From grief and groan to a golden throne beside the King of Heaven."[/quote]

William Shakepear - Let me not to the marriage of true minds
[quote]
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
Oh, no! it is an ever-fixéd mark,
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come'
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.[/quote]

[Quotes]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
- Dr. Carl Sagan

[Quotes]

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei

“If you think you can, you can. And if you think you can't, you're right.”
- Mary Kay Ash

"Even the wisest mind has something yet to learn."
- George Santayana

[Beautiful Poetry]

I ask you to please post poetry or prose that you find to be inspiring, despairing, breathtaking, or simply worthy of being read so that others may enjoy them also.

Here are a few of my favorites:

E.E. Cummings - being to timelessness as it's to time,
[quote]
being to timelessness as it's to time,
love did no more begin than love will end:
where nothing is to breathe to stroll to swim
love is the air the ocean and the land

(do lovers suffer?all divinities
proudly descending put on deathful flesh:
are lovers glad?only their smallest joy's
a universe emerging from a wish)

love is the voice under all silences,
the hope which has no opposite in fear:
the strength so strong mere force is feebleness:
the truth more first than sun more last than star

- -do lovers love?why then to heaven with hell.
whatever sages say and fools,all's well
[/quote]

John McCrae - In Flanders Fields
[quote]
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.[/quote]

Lord Byron - When We Two Parted
[quote]
When we two parted
In silence and tears,
Half broken-hearted,
To sever for years,
Pale grew thy cheek and cold,
Colder thy kiss;
Truly that hour foretold
Sorrow to this.

The dew of the morning
Sank chill on my brow—
It felt like the warning
Of what I feel now.
Thy vows are all broken,
And light is thy fame:
I hear thy name spoken,
And share in its shame.

They name thee before me,
A knell to mine ear;
A shudder comes o'er me—
Why wert thou so dear?
They know not I knew thee,
Who knew thee too well:—
Long, long shall I rue thee
Too deeply to tell.

In secret we met—
In silence I grieve
That thy heart could forget,
Thy spirit deceive.
If I should meet thee
After long years,
How should I greet thee?—
With silence and tears.[/quote]

W.H. Auden - Funeral Blues
[quote]
Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,
Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,
Silence the pianos and with muffled drum
Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.

Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead
Scribbling on the sky the message He is Dead.
Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves,
Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves.

He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever: I was wrong.

The stars are not wanted now; put out every one,
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun,
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods;
For nothing now can ever come to any good.[/quote]

[The Meaning Of Life.]

[quote]It is what you assume I mean by “designer” that is the issue here, not that I think there is one. You haven’t actually specified it, but by observer designer etc you seem to mean some sort of godly intelligent being. I don’t. The wind makes designs in the sand everyday…for example. [/quote]
I believe the words design and designer imply sentience. Random patterns in the sand can hardly be called a design and are given purpose or meaning only through the gratification of an intelligent observer. As I implied above, I don’t believe that the processes or even existence of nature are purposeful in the absence of life. The universe serves no function other than to host and sustain our purposes (assuming we are the only intelligent life forms in it).

[quote]You can put the system of systems into another clock...but you will have the same situation. Hence the infinite system of systems. (You say I’m making an assumption a greater or lesser system exists, that there is only the human system, but I already gave you an example…here’s another...we are in the world perpetuating it, it is part of the solar system the solar system is part of something else and so on and so forth vice versa affecting each other).[/quote]
Our universe is finite, although expanding. It contains a finite (and relatively small) amount of particles such that the number of physical systems is certainly limited, the largest of which are galaxy clusters. In any case and as previously stated, I don’t feel that an infinite chain is sufficient to establish purpose. This is my opinion and I’m looking to have it changed. Perhaps we can look at it this way. To make things simple, let’s assume that 0 is the grand purpose for the infinity of systems which form an asymptote that approaches 0. The systems will never truly intersect or contain 0, so the purpose is illusionary.

I also already stated that in a finite system the end or final system must have a purpose or the others which compose it are similarly meaningless.

[quote]A reductionist might say: “But what is the point of the systems? Isn’t that what would give the sort of purpose he is describing?” Well in my first post I already answered that.[/quote]
It just seems like a circular argument to me. If our purpose is to grant purpose to others which have no real purpose the entire thing seems meaningless when viewed from a high enough vantage point.

[The Meaning Of Life.]

[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' date='12 January 2010 - 04:15 PM' timestamp='1263330927' post='52578']To use your analogy: The clock itself, has hands so that someone can see what time it is but only when considered from the point of view of a pre-set idea of what a clock is. [/quote]
[quote name='Totenkopf' date='13 January 2010 - 08:19 AM' timestamp='1263388780' post='52645']Your clock-hands question is forcing an already weak analogy - us 6 billion buggers are not, in fact, "a clock", hence, we do not need to have "hands" showing a three-headed alien on a casual Sunday Mars fly-by "the time", as it were. [/quote]
Unfortunately, any analogy would be imperfect due to our reliance on language and its inefficiency or inability to approach infinites and abstracts.

[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' date='12 January 2010 - 04:15 PM' timestamp='1263330927' post='52578'] It's designer, creator, and observer is nothing more than a part of a greater system the clock is part of. Their relationship is mutually beneficial and only two cogs in a bigger system.[/quote]
But you’ve just made the assumption that we have a designer, in which case I concede that fact alone is sufficient to grant us a greater purpose. I would like to assume that no greater system than humanity exists, and, in my clock analogy, humanity would have aspired to the pinnacle of its achievements: a harmonious yet complex world society. The murder rate is 0 and employment is 100%. I would make the claim that the universe, being the largest and ultimately final system yet unaware and inanimate, is purposeful insofar as that it sustains sentient life. So again, in the absence of a designer…is existence meaningful? Are there logical ways to support that it is?

[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' date='12 January 2010 - 04:15 PM' timestamp='1263330927' post='52578']In the same way, without having to go further, I think one must accept that the purpose is what you are, part of a system of systems. If there is some end finite purpose, we must accept it is too far away to see, or perhaps the systems are infinate. If I use the clock, then the prupose of this world and how it functions is in order to perpetuate it's existance for the system above it and so on and so forth...in a sense, this is the nature of faith and hope. That being said, without hands what you remove is the indicator of function for the system above, not the purpose of the clock, for essentially it would still tell time with a very simple addition. You see I said addition rather than repair there? Remove one of the cogs however and you have a totally different problem...then the system either somehow manages to fix itself or must be repaired in order to continue it's function in the larger system else it dies. (I the greater system am thankful for my muscles, my muscles may or may not be aware of how wonderful they truely are simply in virtue of their existance)[/quote]
[quote name='phantasm' date='12 January 2010 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1263333839' post='52584']i love the analogy malaikat. The difference, and the flaw...is that the clock parts don't produce new clock parts. We as a civilization breed new generations. I am an extremely devout Lutheran, but I don't look at the purpose to be set twards the "designer". I look as the purpose to be set for the next generation of clogs and gears, as you put it.

"In 100 years from now it won't matter what kind of car I drove, what kind of suit I wore, or what kind of food I ate. What will matter is the difference I made in the life's of those who will see the future."

One of my favorite quotes. So as you can see I think the meaning of life is the preservation of life for the next.[/quote]
I had originally thought these arguments to be different, however, I realize that they are the same. Phantasm, it’s easier to spot in your post as it sounds as though you acknowledge and accept that existence is futile in the immediate. However, you neglect to consider the logical implications on subsequent generations. If our purpose is solely to breed a generation of individuals who have no purpose other than to do the same, I would say that the meaning of our existence is not only illusionary but also elusive. What’s the point of perpetuating a species that serves no purpose other than its perpetuation?

Also, for the sake of being thorough, I would like to be Biblical for a moment. In addition to the logical argument covered above, there is also a scriptural (Abrahamic) argument based on God’s command to “be fruitful and multiply”. However, that command was delivered only twice, both in the Old Testament, both to very specific individuals, and under even more specific circumstances. It was delivered once to Adam and Eve shortly after creation, and again to Noah and his sons almost immediately after the flood. It’s impossible to argue the command is valid outside of those instances without also accepting the entirety of Old Testament law as delivered to the tribes of Israel, and even then it’d be kinda spotty.

Z makes the same claim, although more abstract, to a seemingly infinite chain of systems each granted purpose by the system preceding it. First, it’s an assumption that those greater systems would exist in the first place, but even so if the chain is finite than the final system’s futility will invalidate the purpose of all of those before it and if the systems are infinite than the purpose is certainly illusionary as it will never truly be actualized…

[The Sisterhood]

[quote name='Udgard' date='12 January 2010 - 03:47 AM' timestamp='1263286057' post='52548']
So men craft because we came in contact with the inner woman in us? [b]Only[/b] men are crafting, no woman... does that mean MD women have lost contact with their inner woman? O_o
[/quote]
I'll remind you that they are playing a role playing game...

[The Meaning Of Life.]

For some the meaning of life (or lack of it) is of little to no consequence, but nevertheless it is a subject that has come up a handful of times in game including in a recent essay quest hosted by McVitie. I was doing some thinking in the shower (typical morning material for all, I'm sure) and figured I'd open those thoughts for your review and discussion.

Let's imagine an extremely large clock with 6 billion parts: gears, cogs, springs, various mechanical winding devices and weights, multiple hammers to sound a series of bells, etc. Each part toils endlessly and performs its given purpose with flawless precision. They even work together in such a way so as to accomplish various technological marvels. The clock enjoys free and unlimited energy as well as perpetual motion, winding itself without any "outside" force. For thousands of years the mechanical devices formed by the individual parts, each performing their unique purpose, spin and rotate and wind and hammer in synchronization and harmony.

However, in examining the clock from the outside, what if you were to realize that the clock has no hands? Another scenario is simply that the clock has no observer, but the same conclusion is derived from each: that all of the individual tasks which appear contextually or situationally purposeful are without any true meaning.

Now, as many here understand, I believe that purpose and meaning can only be established if the universe has not only a designer (someone to observe the clock) but also a perfect design (a clock that isn't missing hands). I'm less interested in debating religion and the existence or non-existence of a creator than I am in discussing purpose. Ways that it could be established, in more than an illusionary sense, assuming that the universe is without design, and how our lives could or possibly should be affected in its absence. For instance, how would morality or social responsibility be altered if the illusion of purpose were to be shattered for the majority?

[Pointless bickering]

[quote name='dst' date='10 January 2010 - 02:19 AM' timestamp='1263107943' post='52380']
So you say that if I am not a painter I should not state/have an opinion about a painting? You make me laugh.
[/quote]
The point is that the mere act of asserting an opinion on such subjective matters as morality and artistic taste immediately renders that opinion void. It's so laughably self defeating that it becomes more worthy of ridicule than the item or action you've spoken out against...

[What You Can Do When You Are Immortal..]

I think immortality would be a curse. It's something my character wrestles with a great deal, and Dr. Manhattan from The Watchmen is an excellent example of how or what you would become if granted immortality.

[The Sisterhood]

[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' date='08 January 2010 - 09:56 AM' timestamp='1262962603' post='52186']
But back on topic, Windy, I have a VERY wonderful suggestion. A suggestion so marvelous, so stupendous, so inspired that not to do it would be a travesty so great as to wipe the very flesh from ths bones of the earth. I suggest, all the women of the sisterhood burn their bras.

Z
[/quote]
What makes you think they own any to burn?