The Phoenix

Why don't we just let that treasury as a treasure? It's the Artisan's treasury, and the Artisan can't choose, they're no longer exist.. Just let that treasure stay there..

requesting any handsome moderator to close this thread, since the GGGOGG are already victorious. thanks!

Endless.. Even it getting more wider to not related topic (from my view and opinion of course)...

I think I'm finished now, U all may carry on..

[quote name='Poppitz Resurrection' date='14 June 2010 - 04:02 AM' timestamp='1276509733' post='61871']
Thats the problem for all of u, u guys just see the topic from the MP5 eyes without try to remember how the lower level struggling for survive...
[/quote]
So you and other older people should make it easier for them? Sparring Grounds are a great place for MP3 and MP4, but do any of the vets help that place? No. Simply because they can't benefit from it themselves.

poppi is right in that mp3s trying to max out specific creatures (or just getting a lot of wins for saccing) generally don't want "dead" exp (that is, exp on a creature that's not supposed to be upgraded beyond a certain level or that's already maxed).

there are however some legit concerns that i think pips and apophys were referring to:

apophys already pointed out that it would be easy for mp3s to get around that by lots of 15 exp wins. also, it would likely re-introduce threshold wins, where you gain just enough exp with certain creatures/actions to increase the stat you want to increase. i'm not sure if it's still possible for each mp level, but with enough ressources it is/was possible to stay at a chosen mp level indefinitely, even with forced bonus exp.

also, you might remember the problem with bonus exp from other sources. automatic bonus exp of this magnitude would destroy the one big mechanic-wise benefit of real fighting - earing stats per fights via exp is faster than just farming wins. with this much bonus exp, no-damage-fights would even become more optimal in many circumstances.

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='14 June 2010 - 01:32 AM' timestamp='1276479137' post='61851']
Yes, because the last two sentences of a paragraph define the whole thing.

As for Poppi's suggestion: Giving EXP for non damage fights is a ridiculous idea. It may limit the amount of GGG training you can do, but so would closing the GGG, just with different effects. It'd make EXP much too easy to get, and just gives people more reward for no risk.
[/quote]

ridiculous idea? u are the joke! Now i really dont understand about u guys want, i thought u want close the GGG (that in fact u can close the place but can't close it essence ..forever)
I just give an alternative which is not directly "close" it (And i'm just on now and open alot lot message that bashing me badly), and if u said easy exp without any risk, i 'm sure u already forgot how as the MP3 and MP4 they DONT want an easy exp.

Thats the problem for all of u, u guys just see the topic from the MP5 eyes without try to remember how the lower level struggling for survive...

[quote name='apophys' date='14 June 2010 - 01:04 AM' timestamp='1276477473' post='61847']

Let me give an example of what I meant:

[spoiler]An attack rit could consist of 5 remains @ martir dying and a heretic archer @ damage random. The defense rit is a single non-damage creature at/near 100% slider.

You can replace the remains by anything else targeting multiple or dying. Xp gain would be negligible.[/spoiler]
[/quote]

I surely understand what u mean Apo, but i think thats how they should train, i did that when i was MP3, walk around find a possible target to get a minimum exp for train my damager, and i mean training not grinding, as MP3 u dont have many options and exp to build a super main rit, so u have to choose wisely all creats for the future main rit, calculating the exp cost and start train the stats after done with the main creatures,and i think there wil be not much left after working the main rit, so theres no chance to become overpowered at that Lvl., Strong yes but not overpowered.

And for MP4 which has more cap limit, its the stage to preparing ur self to MP5 (which is like hell), so there's nothing wrong with a little bit stats training,and of course added more new creats with more high requirements that will be need more high exp and win count, and special for MP4 that "border" also give new issue, the fight balance, ...if u try to worked out with ur style above, then theres a chance for u to get a Victorious win,get count on the fight balance, get trouble with ur honor...So almost have a same problem as MP3 i think but with higher exp cap limit.

I just try to give a little input that both "side" can accept in the good way,and of course..in peace

[quote name='apophys' date='14 June 2010 - 12:26 AM' timestamp='1276475162' post='61843']
That's an interesting idea, Poppi, but it would be easily worked around. People would add a damager to their rituals for around 15 xp per attack instead of several thousand.

[/quote]


Yes Apo, theres always a chance to easily worked out for something, but for that case..even u win a fight with just deal 1 damage, as mp3/mp4..u still will be capped someday...And what are u going to train with 1-15 damage btw? is it worthy enough?
Well.. Atleast with that "obstacle" u cant train ur trees,stealers and angiens .. which are the most valuable creatures to grind extremely ..

I dont understand why this thread still keep rolling and rolling with just some more" words game", but i noticed this is supposed to be happen anyway..
These some Point that probably representing the protestant (forgive me if i'm wrong):

[color="#000000"][b]They want the GGG closed, the cause and effects are:[/b][/color]

Stats grinding for no excact purpose (seeing that long of stats digit on ur profile doesnt help u much either in the real battle),

Wasted time to "play" the game in many more develop way (Exploring,experimenting,..Involve much deeper),

Unbalance Power (especially for lower lvl,MP3 and 4), alt abusing (For HC in example and trust me,noob never abusing with alt),

Lack of social interaction for more RP and knowledge share between player (Building a character and get alot of other new "thing" from other/Vets, especially fresh MP Lvl),

Losing the fact that this is a full combat PvP game (Yes, this is Magic duel not Magic Training)


Well i dont want to add more topic on it and no more playing with words, i'll try to put a/some suggestion/s:


[b][size="3"][color="#ff0000"]Fight Experience Bonus
[/color][/size][/b][size="2"][color="#000000"]All Player [/color][/size][size="3"][color="#ff0000"][size="2"][color="#000000"]that doing a fight/battle as the Attacker side will get an experience bonus point if they win the fight with neutral or balance/[color="#ff0000"][b]no damage[/b][/color] result.

And for a fair reason these some more suggestion:
1K exp bonus to all creats in the rit for no damage fight result in MP3
3K Exp bonus [/color][/size][/color][/size][size="3"][color="#ff0000"][size="2"][color="#000000"]to all creats in the rit [/color][/size][/color][/size][size="3"][color="#ff0000"][size="2"][color="#000000"]for no damage fight result in MP4
6K Exp bonus [/color][/size][/color][/size][size="3"][color="#ff0000"][size="2"][color="#000000"]to all creats in the rit [/color][/size][/color][/size][size="3"][color="#ff0000"][size="2"][color="#000000"]for no damage fight result in MP5 (With the reducing exp ability its not truly fair enough i think^^)

Well, the goal is how to make the lower lvl (MP3/MP4) player get their maximum effort in training and will precisely know what they should do/train.
I hope with that Bonus (u may also call it as a Handicap), will create a fight for clear purpose atmosfer. And i think not too hard to realize it because it more [/color][/size][/color][/size]technical and systemic, [size="3"][color="#ff0000"][size="2"][color="#000000"]in compare with all the theory and solution that based on forcing and personal willing for deciding to follow the rules or not. (sorry for my english if there are some stupid mistake,but i'm sure u all know what i mean.. LOL).

[size="1"][i]


PS: For all GGG Pro, i know u all now dissapointed with my post here,but trust me i'm doing it all just for our good purpose.
And for all player..enough with the cold war, i hate war..![/i][/size]


[/color][/size][/color][/size][b][size="3"][color="#ff0000"]
[/color][/size][/b]

[quote name='nadrolski' date='08 June 2010 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1276050321' post='61405']
just for the Gorillas anti-GGGs whatsoever who initiatively and tirelessly destroy every non-damaging defenseless rituals at the GGG

you hate GGG because it is only used for stat grinding. the way i see it, you (together with your protest [s]bananas[/s] banners) are the one taking advantage of that "grinding" by doing headstrong [b]attacks against people who you already know that are set with non-retaliating rituals[/b] [i]I'm sorry, is there any other way to attack people in GGG? Other than following the "rules", of course.[/i], then bragging and bragging that GGG is useless. GGG stat grinding may take loads of months before you get what a trainee wants, and [s]ANTI-GGG ATTACKERS[/s] [i]Regular fighters[/i] [b]WON'T TAKE THEM EVEN HALF A MINUTE TO GAIN STATS, IT'S INSTANT![/b] [i]Which is exactly what's supposed to happen when you fight - but wait, all you do in GGG is get non-damaging wins. I wonder why you don't get instant stats...[/i] and may i ask if anyone from the GGG has already beat you repeatedly? [b]we, the GGG trainees, are generally weak[/b] [i]Is it not the point of GGG to become strong?[/i], and we know that we can't get a piece of you (because you are the battle pioneers/superiors).

[b]don't we (anti-Gorillas) have a choice on where we can train ourselves[/b][i]Yes, you do, but don't expect zero opposition.[/i]? GoE, SG, everywhere, we can fight/train almost everywhere. a small community [s]re-builded[/s] [i]Took over[/i] an MR left-over training ground [i]after the MRs abandoned it as a group[/i], and some find it good (not the best) to train at, because it can help on their creature taming, and sometimes to their personal stat profile.

correct, GGG isn't supported by Mur himself, but the people who train their supports it, and we are still counted as part of the community. do the GGG trainees ever stopped from training/grinding outside GGG? nah. but the Gorillas protested in an unorderly manner. if you hate GGG "grinders", [b]you shouldn't grind on our trainees too[/b] [i]if it were grinding, people would be sitting there all day doing nothing but attacking. Besides, it's not the grinders that are under fire, it's the idea of the GGG itself[/i]. we aren't the one taking advantage of grinding, BUT YOU.
[/quote]

Italics=my edits.

just for the Gorillas anti-GGGs whatsoever who initiatively and tirelessly destroy every non-damaging defenseless rituals at the GGG

you hate GGG because it is only used for stat grinding. the way i see it, you (together with your protest [s]bananas[/s] banners) are the one taking advantage of that "grinding" by doing headstrong attacks against people who you already know that are set with non-retaliating rituals, then bragging and bragging that GGG is useless. GGG stat grinding may take loads of months before you get what a trainee wants, and ANTI-GGG ATTACKERS WON'T TAKE THEM EVEN HALF A MINUTE TO GAIN STATS, IT'S INSTANT! and may i ask if anyone from the GGG has already beat you repeatedly? we, the GGG trainees, are generally weak, and we know that we can't get a piece of you (because you are the battle pioneers/superiors).

don't we (anti-Gorillas) have a choice on where we can train ourselves? GoE, SG, everywhere, we can fight/train almost everywhere. a small community re-builded an MR left-over training ground, and some find it good (not the best) to train at, because it can help on their creature taming, and sometimes to their personal stat profile.

correct, GGG isn't supported by Mur himself, but the people who train their supports it, and we are still counted as part of the community. do the GGG trainees ever stopped from training/grinding outside GGG? nah. but the Gorillas protested in an unorderly manner. if you hate GGG "grinders", you shouldn't grind on our trainees too. we aren't the one taking advantage of grinding, BUT YOU.

Edit:
(attached image)

It is indeed very simple to stop GGG, all it takes is the staff to stop bothering.
Once they don't deal with offenders anymore, there is not much you can do. You don't have the tools it takes.
GGG is too vulnerable because the defences are built to lose.

The moment MP4 are not protected by it anymore, i will personally make sure every MP4 knows of that. They won't carve in to peer pressure, because they don't need the help of the strong of their level when they can farm off them without their consent anyways.

And, Poppi, you seem to think that we'd need to create alts or otherwise cheat to stop an MP4... you're wrong.
We can very well take things in our own hands within the rules, but i don't think that leads to satisfying results.

I mean... satisfying for them. I'd be very satisfied with certain MP4 capped, and then proceed to send them over the MP5-cap before they even know what hit them, too.

But that's beside the point, i don't want to force them. I want them to realize that what they do causes more damage than all the tokens, drachorns and crit-boosters together.
Forcing them is Plan B, probably.

[quote name='dst' date='04 June 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1275682907' post='61036']
Threatening me Poppitz? I really hope you have more brains then that.

Yes, forcing. I can do it and be sure I will do it! And you can't stop me if I want to do it. Deal with it!

GGG is BAD CAUSE of the mp3s and mp4s TRAINING there. mp3 and mp4 are LEARNING stages NOT grinding ones.
[/quote]

I never threatening anyone (u the one that threat me by saying that u can force them to jump anyway,check ur words more carefully), and not worthy at all to threat u btw, i was just trying to get u a picture about the risk for all the thing that u going to do (no matter how bad and brave u are)..
And again..*sigh* ...Yes they're training there, so...Bad? just face it if now all lower MP lvl have more brains to find out the way to get strong FASTER than u all with the same situation in the past, how come that happen? They have a GREAT MENTOR! (which not too much now really..)that care enough to guide them.

[quote name='Burns' date='04 June 2010 - 09:28 PM' timestamp='1275686890' post='61042']
Only those who need it? Then it should be available for nobody but MP5, young MP5 are exactly the only people who 'need' it.

And therefore, i want GGG closed for 3/4. Without exceptions.
[/quote]


GGG Closed for 3 and 4? Then Go ahead,without exceptions...I'm sure U all already read my earlier post (check it again incase u missed something)

[quote name='Poppitz Resurrection' date='04 June 2010 - 11:09 PM' timestamp='1275682189' post='61032']
Aahhh..I already know this kind of thing will come, no comment as i already put a clear statement above, btw this is a Public embarassment for u the honourable dst since u're MP5 and surely dont have any related thing with MP3 and MP4 training, Forcing? Then try it and u'll experiencing the court one more time and end up in jail..
[/quote]

Threatening me Poppitz? I really hope you have more brains then that.

Yes, forcing. I can do it and be sure I will do it! And you can't stop me if I want to do it. Deal with it!

GGG is BAD CAUSE of the mp3s and mp4s TRAINING there. mp3 and mp4 are LEARNING stages NOT grinding ones.

[quote name='dst' date='04 June 2010 - 07:58 PM' timestamp='1275681482' post='61030']
Want a counter Poppitz? Easy: we can force mp3s and mp4s to move up. Especially the fighters. So see? It's not that safe unfortunately...
[/quote]

Aahhh..I already know this kind of thing will come, no comment as i already put a clear statement above, btw this is a Public embarassment for u the honourable dst since u're MP5 and surely dont have any related thing with MP3 and MP4 training, Forcing? Then try it and u'll experiencing the court one more time and end up in jail..

GGG, Dojo/SG, GoS,..they all just a location,the essence is what they doing in there, You all may close even guarding that places in each access and everyway u may thinking of,but the demand will always around,You all can't prevent players to train with any style they want because thats not againts any rules in the realm...

GGG just for MP5? thats the most shallow suggestion and if i may say.. A joke! Mp5 already got they're advantage with the Exp reducing feature,they can train FOREVER in any ways and style they want! Dont say anything about money and token, thats really amateur statement, u all vets are the most bright player in the realm, why u all should be panic and cry like a baby coz other player grind they stats and fully tokening their creats? Let them gather all the power so in the future they can kick ur arse..Fair enough i think..

The MD is grow to a better and easiest way everyday, u start from the bottom and through a long hard way..thats ur problem, if u start as a new player now (maybe some already did that), u'll know how easy to get a strong status in this realm right now..Far far different from ur golden era.

I'm (Poppi Chulloz) dont get anything from GGG coz i never train there, so i dont care if u all close the place or whatever, but i'm not thinking about you, i'm thinking about they who need that place..

This game is FUN! Every inch of this is FUN! You all the people that bring a funless to the ralm! Blaming, Crying, Excuses..Endless topic.

So the last thing from me, You Can not..One more time..CAN NOT preventing any player to train with every style and everywhere they want, why? Because its Legal.




[color="#FF0000"][b]Ps: I'm (Poppi Chulloz) My self will guide the MP3 and MP4 but NO MP5! to get their win count training, and as i said before, you all over ruled veterans can't ruin the trainees unless you all get over reacting and using ur alts for bullying them (again), so please act as a mateur and experienced player. [/b][/color]

its all a joker chewett cant you see it the ggg has been oplanned to be destroyed its nothing new dude c'mon snap back in reality and open your eyes it has been planned thereh had been many clues that it ha been planned

I am also against the GGG, as I was against the "Dojo". I may not be MP5, but ever since I started playing I have never used any of those training grounds and point blank refuse to do any form of "training" with anyone for the most part.

Pip your cyclical theory about MP5 is right, but the issue is there arn't enough players around for that to happen right now, and I think part of the reason for that is that there is no social interaction - partically because of things like the GGG. Phantasm, you are right people do complain once it gets public as once it becomes a public thing it starts going wrong, it means people flock to that one spot. When something like that is a secret group it doesn't have the debilitating effect it has once it grows so to speak, don't know if you follow. I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying that it "is". The difference with the GGG and the dojo was people could also play and chat there, the GGG is much stricter and much much more about grinding - and you can see the difference in the game environment itself when the different training grounds have existed. (someone should do a little historical blurb on it...could be useful here...I don't have time right at this second)

Originally people would wander the lands trying to ask questions, find victims, and fleeing to sanctuaries where they would sit chatting or call each other outside for a duel. It was the era of the pubs and such and its why the sanctuaries are dead and the pubs don't exist any longer. Nobody needs to search around anymore which is another reason most of the place is dead.

Not perfectly worded, it's too early, but there we go - I'm with No One.

Z

Fortunately i have the evidence of what he told Pipstick.

[quote] "i have no def rits though and most creatures dead or near to"[/quote]

(check the pic)

[quote]"alright i'm off to cower around sanctuaries for a few days regen some rits" [/quote]

I don't have pic but you can ask Limethunder or any of the presents.

[quote]"You should talk to your victims more often. It makes them feel special.[/quote]

That also prove my point do you think No one cause good impression over him?

He felt massacred and killed, so again that's [color="#ff0000"][size="4"]NOT[/size] [/color]the solution.

Pip..I'ts not about me,u dont have to tell me all those thingy..Its for them who "need"

I was hoping u'll answer my question but not in fact.
I'm trying to get u a picture here..What all u gentlements (and ladies) try to do now will affecting the Game widely.

1. U'll be filterizing the newbies on high lvl(especially MP5),which newbies i'm talking about isnt an alt,goes to their tired point for being target sack and may start the process to create an alt (thats if they'll still have a passion for the game),they start smoothly and train hard at maximum MP4Lvl,u cant do anything to stop the Mp3 and Mp4 to train "ala"GGG, Unless of course u all being over acting and use alt in lower MP to bullying them (Again).
So basiclly there will be another GGG but not for MP5 (And u better pray they will dare enough for jump to MP5)

2. For all the "fast lane" newbies which jump to every level without prepare and a knowledge,the MP5 lvl that u said will hit them for a while until the next cycle (dont know how long or probably never) come is the end of the game,and the closing word from them is "Quit". So the future MD will be full of MP3 and MP4 alts that train Super hard and not deciding to jump for anonymous time and also of course u all...which i mean "you all" the MP5.

So its very hard to make ur dream come true,unless Mur him self set the new rules about gathering and training,which is so so legal for me..

New MP5 -> Average MP5 -> Veteran MP5

Group A of New MP5s come in, and get beaten up for a while by the older MP5. Then Group B of New MP5 come in, which pushes Group A into the "average" slot, because they now have someone to attack. The cycle continues.

Sanctuaries are there for a reason as well. How many people do you think actually USE sanctuaries? Why SHOULD anybody use them when they could be at GGG farming wins instead of just sitting there waiting for the regen timer?

Back when there was no GGG, new MP5s got the hang of defending themselves well enough, but now that there's GGG, again, why should they?

You, Poppi, are a perfect example. You've used your privilege to create alts well, because you've had a few, and over time, you've learned quite a bit, right? Does it really matter if you can't beat a few vets? Avoid them. It's not hard. At worst, you get a few losses and have to wait for regen, or use free credits, or ask your protector for a heal.

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='03 June 2010 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1275606126' post='60920']
When did it become wrong to enjoy ACTUALLY battling people? Can somebody please fill me in?
[/quote]


Mmm..Maybe you mean to enjoy ACTUALLY Slaughtering people?

The fresh MP5 and All Fresh MP Lvl not enjoying that Pip,that's why they need a training,if thats mean always be killed by u all fancy vets over and over will teach them how to fight properly and improve their stats,thats totally wrong..
Wheres the "learning" part if they even not have any living creatures in every steps they make all over the realm?

Will You the all most honour vet will give them a chance? which i doubt that...

Poppitz, you seem to have a fan club
They are really good though, I like them, anyways, good luck with the guild

some very awsome drawings pop...some are a little rough compared to those people have but i really like em....i have no room to talk about how to draw because my stick figures are crooked im so bad at it

edit: that one holding the key is SOOO me...and
BEWARE OF FLYING MONKEYS!!!

Dear Glordamar..These are my last effort for the artisans..i'll stop my brain for the idea line until next week.. If i still continue to draw,my head will going to Blow bad! :crazy:

well.. At least i hope they're will be useful enough... :clapping:


Link : [url="http://poppitz.deviantart.com/"]http://poppitz.deviantart.com/[/url]

Regards,Poppitz Resurrection-