Illusion-Citizenship Problem

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1353925767' post='126444']
I don't know if you're get your citizenship back. And I doubt anyone here knows. So...it's quite pointless to ask on the forum.
IMO this is not a bug. It's normal behavior of illusions. So I don't see a reason why it should be fixed.
[/quote]

Not a bug? (see below)

[quote name='BFH' timestamp='1353863216' post='126354']
Very interesting bug
[/quote]

Why it should be fixed? (see below)

[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1353864379' post='126360']
bad things happen, people complain.
[/quote]

In this case, the bad thing was that DARK DEMON rightfully became citizen of Loreroot, but JUST because of an illusion, he did not. And now, he wants it back. Simple. To prevent this from happening to anyone else in the future, I thought it would be nice to post that it must be fixed.

Can't make it simpler than that.

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1353925767' post='126444']
And what abuses should I check? I don't see any abuse here.
[/quote]

Aye, not yet. But have you not considered how people might take advantage of:

[quote name='Udgard']
if someone who is about to get kicked enters an illusion just before the end of the vote, then comes out of illusion afterwards, will they be able to circumvent being kicked (seems like a potential loophole here)?
[/quote]
_______________________________________________________________________

[quote name='Falronn' timestamp='1353925975' post='126446']
When I was frogged there was a cooldown period of which I could not exit the illusion until it had passed. Considering DD got frogged a day before he got citizenship, it's very possible there was nothing he could do about it.

DARK DEMON, email council and see what they say about it. Otherwise you will likely have to reapply.
[/quote]
[quote name='No one' timestamp='1353926166' post='126447']
As I said also in :
[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/13216-citizenship-by-crash-test-dummy/#entry126445"]http://magicduel.inv...my/#entry126445[/url]

From my point of view, let illusions be like they are right now. Who can use it and know how to use it ... it is his right to use it. The illusions have their bad counter part and those using them are assuming the risks.

It is your fault that you stayed in illusion, you should support the consequences. Also, you are not forbidden to reapply to LR again.

If you were accepted into LR, there should be no problem to get in again.


Edit: Do as Falron said. Who knows, maybe they will do an exception for you. Good luck.
[/quote]
[quote name='dst' timestamp='1353926786' post='126448']
The cooldown is way less than 1 day. It's 20 minutes/spell point. I doubt turntofrog has more than 1 point but even if it has, I kind of doubt it has such a long cooldown.
[/quote]
[quote name='Falronn' timestamp='1353927419' post='126450']
I don't remember how long it was exactly (ask sasha lilias) but I remember it took a little while for the toadspeak part of the effect to wear off, not considering the actual illusion cooldown. Was longer than 20 minutes.
[/quote]

MoC said that his spells last longer (double the time). Yes, I knew I could turn it off before I got citizenship, but I didn't know how to UNTIL I was given citizenship.

Falronn, I've emailed [color=#2A2A2A][size=3][url="http://www.google.com/recaptcha/mailhide/d?k=01ILtqSnTaJ2O1sPbKXjNZeQ==&c=8EZ60gSnhtV3HOLkW242euSKUwLs_WRxzOR8uuv5HQs="]Bugs/Crash Test Dummy Contact Address[/url][/size][/color]. Lets see what he says.
No One, you say it is my fault that I stayed in the illusion? How was I to know that I would lose my citizenship once it's gone? How would anyone who has not been in an illusion before know that they would lose their citizenship once the illusion ends? Nobody is kind to tell you from advance...

Edited November 26, 2012 by DARK DEMON

[No one]

Indeed Dark one, nobody tells you in advance but this is all about MD mechanics and due to LR making quite a fuss about dst's illusions "recently" all who read the forum should know about this.
If you were not interested ... it does not mean that it was not public.

[quote]Aye, not yet. But have you not considered how people might take advantage of:
Udgard said:
if someone who is about to get kicked enters an illusion just before the end of the vote, then comes out of illusion afterwards, will they be able to circumvent being kicked (seems like a potential loophole here)?
[/quote]
Please look & read for the illusion topics of LR against dst's (and other) illusions.

I have considered all the consequences and seeking the loopholes is part of what keeps me in MD.
The only ppl that don't find them acceptable are those that failed something due to illusions (see the SI takeover as part of the LR's complaint about illusions) .

[dst]

"How would anyone who has not been in an illusion before know that they would lose their citizenship once the illusion ends"

Illusions were fixed some time ago so they will reset everything one gains while in one.
Illusions are risky. If you use them, you should accept those risks.
Also, we don't punish people for intentions, we punish them for their deeds.

"Not a bug? (see below)


[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=126354"][img]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png[/img][/url]BFH, on 25 November 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:
Very interesting bug"

I am sorry but BFH is not a bug tester. He knows stuff but he doesn't know everything and apparently he missed this one.


People complain all the time (see this thread).

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='No one' timestamp='1353929803' post='126458']
Indeed Dark one, nobody tells you in advance but this is all about MD mechanics and due to LR making quite a fuss about dst's illusions "recently" all who read the forum should know about this.
If you were not interested ... it does not mean that it was not public.


Please look & read for the illusion topics of LR against dst's (and other) illusions.

I have considered all the consequences and seeking the loopholes is part of what keeps me in MD.
The only ppl that don't find them acceptable are those that failed something due to illusions (see the SI takeover as part of the LR's complaint about illusions) .
[/quote]

I wasn't in this realm when Loreroot must have protested.

But tell me this: how am I wrong to complain?

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1353930304' post='126461']
Illusions are risky. If you use them, you should accept those risks.
[/quote]

OMG, I've said this 3 times already!

I DID NOT USE THE ILLUSION!

I was not aware of any "consequences" or "risks" either.

[DARK DEMON]

UPDATE: I must wait till 16th Dec to apply again --->

(went to Ravenhold)

Edited November 26, 2012 by DARK DEMON

[Liberty4life]

this behavior of illusions prevented lore's takeover of SI as well as few takeovers over TW and from discussion back then and all the fuss it was decided to let it be like it is now, this fuss with citizenship... well its lower importance than alliances, you can simply reapply, as with tryin to kick somebody out of land who sits in illusion, well its true ya pretty much cant same as it happened with dst and peace, but usual players who dont belong to this priviledged club of few dont have illusion powers, and this "priviledged club" aint gonna move around the lands, they are all leaders in their current places, if it wasnt for this, necro wouldnt have alliances anymore, and well dsts ally would probably be taken over and then returned to her by council/mur

anyway, just mail council, since ya got inside illusion by MC's fault, they will very likely grant you citizenship back directly, but its very likely that they ask for confirmation about you getting it in first place, so screenshot if you had taken it or few confirmations of current lore citizens will suffice, and i doubt sheer link to this forum topic would satisfy them

[Mya Celestia]

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]Dark, when you are able, re-apply. Because you didn't get the citizenship as Dark Demon, you should be able to apply. You could try talking to MoC in the mean time to make him aware of the situation in case he didn't realize it. [/font][/color]

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]Let's give the benefit of the doubt. If anything, you've reported the bug.[/font][/color]

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='Mya Celestia' timestamp='1353964868' post='126532']
[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]Dark, when you are able, re-apply. Because you didn't get the citizenship as Dark Demon, you should be able to apply. You could try talking to MoC in the mean time to make him aware of the situation in case he didn't realize it. [/font][/color]

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]Let's give the benefit of the doubt. If anything, you've reported the bug.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

[color=#008000][font=comic sans ms,cursive]Council has given me my citizenship back [/font][/color][color=#008000][font=comic sans ms,cursive] They do not believe it is a bug, even though Crash Test Dummy does.[/font][/color]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#008000]Anyhow, this topic can be closed and moved. Thanks.[/color][/font]

Edited November 27, 2012 by DARK DEMON

[Chewett]

It is a bug, (I was CTD at that time) but something that needs further thought before fixed

 

moved into resolved for now

[DARK DEMON]

Is this fixed?