Powerful land items and abilities

[Jubaris]

Currently, the mainland kingdoms have no abilities specific to them, other than an amalgam of their individuals who might or not have some roles. Which is weird considering that when kings were introduced, they were supposed to be epicenter of our realm's activities.

Several years later, there is still no gameplay difference between mainlands and other lands.

 

Others can speak about their own lands, I am curios about everything and eager to provide thoughts, although I will be addressing Marind Bell here specifically.

 

If you look at the sign at our gates:

 

 

Marind Bell Gates
The remains of a once flourishing town, Marind Bells real name was forgotten, and its current name is given after Marind, the protector of these lands. Its power lies in deep mysteries and powerfull protective magic developed in time to withstand Necrovions constant attacks. This land was once peaceful but is now tainted by the fury of war and hatred against darkness.

 

 

There are no such things in the gameplay. We've been talking around in MB trying to figure out the best way to manifest land natures.

For now, we think that the easiest solution that will have a point will be introducing new land shared items, powerful ones that will require a lot of land loyalty.

In our case, protective abilities. For Necrovion, it will most likely all be offensive oriented, etc.

 

Due to MB's isolationist nature, maintaining sanctity is what I am thinking of.

Abilities that prevent teleporting you (while in Marind Bell at the very least), perhaps in a form of an item that assigns a nosummon tag for a period of time in a scene where you are at.

 

Also, healing abilities. Resurrection items, for example, 2 of those with at least 1000 land loyalty points requirement, and maybe a month longer cooldown than the normal resurrection items.

 

It sounds a radical change from this point, but it fits the general balanced system, and it is something that was long due, together with other mainland item equivalents of course.

 

Calling for support on the matter, looking forward on conclusions from the discusions and welcoming suggestions and expansions.

[dst]

What about non main lands? Don't they deserve the same treatment?

[Chewett]

What if I postulated that the description you quote, is referencing your land weapon and that the protection you describe, is what protects the land from shade invasion?

 

Look at some of your research from my time, assuming its still there.

[Azull]

Sorry for the pos rep. I didnt intend to do that :p yay for mobile phones.

I have some issues with what you say Reg. Even if the basic idea is interesting. Will try to go into more detail later.

[Ary Endleg]

You need land treasuries first if you want trade at land level. It's quite difficult to differentiate between personal and land resources and having control of them on a person because you can't split them. It's a problem that discourages resource trades because people won't be willing to buy your whole stack of 2k water, but want maybe just 20, hence you can't trade with that person. Resource trades are possible only when people want to buy whole stack.

 

 

I agree that there isn't mechanical difference between lands, but should there really be one?

[DARK DEMON]

You need land treasuries first if you want trade at land level. It's quite difficult to differentiate between personal and land resources and having control of them on a person because you can't split them. It's a problem that discourages resource trades because people won't be willing to buy your whole stack of 2k water, but want maybe just 20, hence you can't trade with that person. Resource trades are possible only when people want to buy whole stack.

 

 

I agree that there isn't mechanical difference between lands, but should there really be one?

 

Yes, maybe fix resources themselves first then (aka finally unstack them) before working on land-level trade... indeed... and then implement land treasuries on the same code (i.e allow X number of a resource to be removed instead of the entire stack)

Edited October 10, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Chewett]

 

Yes, maybe fix resources themselves first then (aka finally unstack them) before working on land-level trade... indeed... and then implement land treasuries on the same code (i.e allow X number of a resource to be removed instead of the entire stack)

 

!!!!PLEASE!!! can people READ the comments Mur made about the resources stacking BEFORE making comments like this again. Lhos should know better, it has been suggested HUNDREDS of times.

 

If you want to discuss why we should change it, with reference to why it cannot be unstacked for now, feel free to make a new topic.

[Burns]

 

Yes, maybe fix resources themselves first then (aka finally unstack them) before working on land-level trade... indeed... and then implement land treasuries on the same code (i.e allow X number of a resource to be removed instead of the entire stack)

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10370-how-can-resources-be-fixed-unsplittable-groups/

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/15205-public-resource-splitter/

 

TL;DR: Nope

 

However, giving lands more specials would be quite a nice idea, i think. We already have different resource gathering tools, but it would be a huge addition if, like in Reggys example, MB would be healing and defending, Necro more about aggressive stuff and such... Though it would be very hard to find a balanced state amongst those tools, i think.

[Ary Endleg]

Yeah DD that's concept problem that won't go away or won't go away just like that at very least. My point was that game is designed to be "hostile" to such trades, hence it wouldn't be really trade encouragement.

 

I somewhat like what dst said, but MD engine has only 1 wookie power :P besides as far as I know this kind of things is what is already being done through RP events, like Garden.

 

PS

Necro is epitome of peace. No aggression here :P if shades get wild it's because others took initiative and they are just reacting on it.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Ary Endleg

[Rophs]

We can has coded land weapons?

:DDDD

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/forum/118-lands/

[Jubaris]

@Dst:

They are not meant to have the same treatment, and I am pretty sure you know that as well, you are one of the oldest MD players and you are pretty aware of what's going around.

Mainlands have prefix main for a reason, if we want to debate this, we can open a new topic and continue there.

 

Although I think it would be a good idea for few things to go around that way as well - for instance, acoustic remains item grab-able for any MDA player that has a high land loyalty, or something like that.

Just not something that would intervene with the land balance due to possible strategic value of abilities gained that way.

 

 

@Chewett:

If you would indeed postulate such a thing, I would ask you to argument :P

I don't think "deep mysteries and powerful protective magic" refers only to our land weapon. _{(also, if its role is to prevent Shade invasion - in some form, because Shades are generally not to be found outside Necrovion, it wouldn't prevent invasion of Necrovion to other lands, and land of Necrovion is the enemy of all mainlands)}

 

Anyhow, the game is halfway to decade being alive, and never were the land weapons activated - to our knowledge.

In the beginning, any large magic effect whatsoever was triggered as an admin reaction to something the players were doing, in time, steps were made to make it more automatic. Isn't this a complete legit step towards that direction?

 

We acknowledged the usage of principle of transposition with Z and Bob, Awiiya and his resting place, when they gained their respective abilities for their roles.

Isn't it natural in the same way for someone who is making a connection with his home for so long (high land loyalty requirements) to gain aspects of the nature of his home?

 

This wouldn't eliminate the need for magic rituals, like the heat collecting trend that got a bit demode, it would just be a small step towards that home-connection, which would, by the way, give a lot of positive effects on the dynamic of the game.

Lands would actually have something to 'play' with, and everything would gain different dimensions in regards to diplomacy, contests, future wars, etc.

 

Right now lands as such don't really have any powers, except maybe Necrovion and Golemus that have the advantage of a high AP cost in their land. Kind of ironic for MB to be so full of sanctity symbolism and "the only land able to close itself" (never done so far actually in game) yet for it to be the most vulnerable land.

Such situation is okay if we are being observed only as a group of people that happen to be trippy a land X is their home and have no real connection with it, but observing the attitude of admins towards what's going on for about 6 years now I have a different impression, therefore this post.

 

(Can one of the mods please split TheRichMerchant's idea and comments for it onto a new topic, because it has no relation with my original post?)

 

 

update:

sorry for double posting, but figure its better than to merge everything in one huge post. (which just happened due to not waiting enough time, curses!)

the context is a bit different here anyway, the previous post was "why yes" to chewy and dsty, this one is "don't be afraid to say yes" to burnsy, which makes it right.

 

 

so, @Burns:

It would indeed not be perfectly equivalently balanced, but is there such a thing in MD? From resources to everything else.

I'm not sure did you see the link Rophs posted a day or so ago, about "perfect imbalance". 

 

Doing this properly, no land would have a clear advantage over the others, they would just be 'different' in their potential, which is good.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[Ungod]

It does have some relashionship, but it is indeed different from what you propose. Its up to the mods.

[Ary Endleg]

Aren't mainlands "main" only because they were first released and put on single realm map (Realm 1)? I also disagree about small letters.

 

I don't understand why is Necrovion labeled as enemy to all and having aggressive nature yet you are the one speaking about wars in first place. Why you want wars? Or do you think that non of us peaceful citizens of NC actually belong in that land because we ain't hostile or aggressive? That we don't live the "supposed" ideology of our land?

 

If you really want to use "it was meant to be this way" and "X land is about this and symbolizes that" then why don't you bring up the argument from storymode where Marind says that MB is meant to be welcoming to everybody and serve as sanctuary of sorts to all those in need (that's your "sanctity")? I believe Mur also said somewhere that MB and LR were meant to be open lands. Seems to me you only pick up arguments that fit your agenda or you don't like that description of sanctity? I think it would be easier if you just say "code those land weapons".

 

Can you clarify further? And no please don't use stereotypical views of lands any further.

[dst]

Main lands already have tons of other benefits while "non" ones have zilch. If it's something this powerful  you want to implement based on land loyalty I want that thing for my land as well (keeping the proportions of course).  As I see your proposal is like: the already powerful ones will get more power.

 

Also maybe UG is small and has just few dwellers but East is anything but small (I think it even has more dwellers that MB currently - might be wrong so I am not sticking my head for it but it does look like East has quite a bunch divided in 3 allies + few citizens).

[Burns]

I think it works quite well in this thread, actually. We'll see how it develops.

so, @Burns:
It would indeed not be perfectly equivalently balanced, but is there such a thing in MD? From resources to everything else.
I'm not sure did you see the link Rophs posted a day or so ago, about "perfect imbalance". 
 
Doing this properly, no land would have a clear advantage over the others, they would just be 'different' in their potential, which is good.

 
This is exactly where you're getting it wrong. For a balanced set of tools, all tools need the same potential. If my toy can delete you from the game if used right, and the best case your toy manages is to movelock me for a day, your toy is underpowered.
But all toys should do something that works with their land, still. MB should probably not have a laser gun, while it would absolutely work for golemus to have a laser gun. Giving a camouflage made of twigs to Loreroot seems useful, but giving it to Necro just looks dumb.
 
Still, they all need to do something of a similar value. If my laser gun can kill you for 3 days, it'd only be fitting that the twig camouflage makes you invisible for 3 days, no? But where does that leave a healing item, just for example, in MB? Revive for 3 days, then you drop dead again? Doesn't work to me. Then again, if you can revive permanently, my zap-o-kill with just 3 days isn't strong enough to compete with your revival tool. That's what i meant with balancing. Edited October 10, 2014 by Burns

[Jubaris]

@Burns:

Of course, "of similar" value is what I want as well, that's not what I was referring at with the term 'equivalent balance', what I meant was I don't want the different lands to have basically same abilities under different clothes.

Banally said, every land will 'need' each other for its plans to be bullet-proof, but since they are meant to compete, it will be a whole lots of 'fun'.

 

Basically, I agree with everything you said, I think we just misunderstood each other.

 

 

@Ary:

A discussion meeting about land weapons was organized some time ago, and you have the access to the log where I was talking about Marind Bell one, the sanctity is well explained there (even if you ignored it, there are enough well-known facts that should make you acknowledge the protective aspects of Marind Bell) and it is not in contradiction with what Marind said in the story mode, the context is different.

 

I will not go into what you aspire or not to be, I am talking about the nature of lands.

Since you are very adept at finding out how things work, I am puzzled how you missed to read the signboard at the Necrovion gates.

 

Necrovion Main Gate

Divided in two inner areas, Necrovion combines both brute evil forces and deserted lands with advanced dark arts and secret occult practices. because of its nature, this land is opposed to all other lands and represents a constant threat to all life. Is also a refuge to those that wish to develop their dark side and turn their personal demons into a powerfull offensive force. During the constant war with Marind Bell many secrets and powerfull forces can be found on these lands. 

 

Regarding mainlands, well, the land balance and the mutual influences of the mainlands is the main background of this game. No, their 'main' prefix is not because they were first. (no man's land is not a mainland, by the way, so that should clear up a few things for you if you're willing to think about it rather than feel attacked)

 

 

@Dst:

Please go into specifics.

What particular benefits do you refer to, and of which powerful becoming more powerful players are you talking about?

I'm sure everyone reads Dst's blog, it's the only place where something is going on. There, m'lady, you have given us a saga about your recent interaction with Lorerootian folk, among them their leadership core. At what point in them getting collectively terrorized by you and Eon (two non-mainlanders, if I may add) by simple game mechanics did they get to manifest their power and domination?

 

East is a special story indeed, I don't dare to go into that one because I don't really understand it. In any case, I think it shouldn't mess with land balance, but I agree it should be worked on, it doesn't have much at the moment.

 

We can do stuff along the way, instead of all at once, this is how things were done, like the kingships.

Let's go slowly, we take care of mainlands, we see possible problems, correct them, we see how does that affect other lands and what can we do to help their development and the development of the game in general, etc.

I don't think it will possible for us to predict everything in theory, let's start from the beginning, and the beginning is the mainlands.

[dst]

1) The "terrorizing" was done using spells and items both me and Eon got as players not as bonus from the land.

2) Do you really want me to tell you out how we could have been stopped? I'm not cutting out my own branch :D.

 

Now, I was talking about the spells that land leaders have and the ability to enter certain restricted (from all points of view) areas and the citizenship items. Also, main lands are always taken into account during changes. Other lands...no.

 

I am really tempted to say that you have enough things to become VERY powerful lands  but then again...I shall not give you the recipe :P

[Ary Endleg]

Thank you very much Princ.

[DARK DEMON]

Don't forget Laby :D

[Chewett]

Over the past announcements Iv been asking all lands to talk to me about things, the only non mainland leader was eon replying to them, just saying.

[Rophs]

Does UG/MDA/LotE/Labby/EH have a land weapon?

[DARK DEMON]

Laby was/is never considered a proper land since it has had absolutely no plans/development whatsoever.

 

But that will change :D

[Chewett]

[font='comic sans ms', cursive]Laby was/is never considered a proper land since it has had absolutely no plans/development whatsoever.[/font]
 
[font='comic sans ms', cursive]But that will change :D[/font]

That's wrong fyi :)

[DARK DEMON]

It wasn't my opinion/words, it was taken from a respectable source ;)

Edited October 10, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Chewett]

[font=comic sans ms']It wasn't my opinion/words, it was taken from a respectable source ;)[/font]

There are plans for molly stage 2 and 3. This involves the lab most heavily and involves development of the lab fyi. Edited October 10, 2014 by Chewett