Powerful land items and abilities

[Ungod]

Referring to MB only: cant we call an Angien? Around that being, our defense would be increased by folds (it could also respect the duration of a burst when out the scene) and death would be impossible (again, crazy idea).

edit: land weapons: presence of the angien/shade/drachorn/treant (dont know what they would do)

Edited October 11, 2014 by TheRichMerchant

[Jubaris]

@Dst:

There are some advantages indeed, but the leader has those abilities, not the regular citizen. 

The situation is different through different mainlands.

 

For example, Marind Bell doesn't have any strategical advantages, it has one restricted location (Angien's shrine, it became one relatively recently) and it is used responsibly without tricks for gaining advantage.

Its potential power lies only in regular development of people that chose MB as its home. I think LR has a similar story, while GG and NV have some advantage in the form of a hard-to-travel-through land.

 

What I want is for every mainland to have a minimum strategical defense it can 'retreat' to, if it doesn't have powerful individual characters.  _{Importance of mainlands aside, non-mainlands at the moment don't require that, I never heard of a war with a non-mainland, furthermore they are generally safe in their high-AP isolation.}

 

In the current MD situation where we have a very low population, every faction is vulnerable, because you only need to strike at one or two targets to compromise a whole faction system.

Current kingship tools are nice and useful, but there's nothing that can help you maintain sovereignty and integrity of your land concerning outlanders. With some strategical addon, the kingdoms stop being a charade, and it's not just having leverage over others, what I am talking about gives you ability to do something, so we get some dynamic life. The domino effect prevents abuses, besides, the implementation doesn't consist of some mega-power changes.

 

When you are not in a mainland, nothing prevents you from cooperating with one, you can work with everyone, and you double-profit when they start competing or enter a conflict, so you don't decrease the attractiveness of non-mainlands. Non-mainlands are very specific in nature anyway, so usually when people join them, they are picking something over the whole land balance competition system.

 

I mean, let's take a look for non-mainlands other than the East:

MDA-observing, no interest in strategy

Underground-underground=not mainstream :))

Labyrinth - currently non-player land

No man's land - not intended to be a homeland of integrated players (Z is an exception)

@Richie:

Keep having fun, not commenting till I see "edit30" in your first post not to compromise your brainstorm evolution :D

[dst]

The only thing you "get" from choosing a non main land is just some loyalty to a place where usually nobody goes. Cooperating with other lands? Why? Why can't I be my own master? Why do I have to "cooperate" just to get some minimum advantages. Non main lands don't even have their own loyalty tied tools (that others have). And to be honest I don't even know why we are called non main lands. We could be as important. We need to have at least the chance to choose (I personally might not want to get the tag of "main" land because that comes with too some restrictions I might not like but I want to have that chance).

 

None of the non main lands were EVER invited to any of your "kings council" (wait...Kyphis and darky were at the last one but they didn't show up). Instead you invited the TKs. That's not only extremely unfair but quite egotistical from your part. You show the rest don't matter. You minimize the importance of the other lands.

[Jubaris]

Sounds pretty neat to me, lots of people want to have East or MDA land loyalty points.

And what do you "get" from choosing a mainland, Marind Bell for example? Bonus on crossing locations with 1 AP requirement? Access to water tool that you can already get in MDA with some effort?

Unless you are the land's leader, there is no advantage.

 

Actually, you have better chances to get role updated from the admins if you are not in a mainland, because you are not under a patronage (that doesn't help you a lot btw, I had a couple of requests recently for Clock Master, big MD player with no role powers, which all got denied) so they feel obligated I guess to focus more on you.

 

_{Kings Council is a player made thing, so it has no relation with this. I'm not sure does your "you" refer to me or to leaders in general, but I wasn't involved in its organization, wasn't a King back then, I participated in a few previous meetings and that's it - nothing was achieved from those meetings yet, so don't feel so sorry about others. In the organization's defense, there are no non-mainland leaders, when MDA got its own, they got invited.}

 

 

[Chewett]

None of the non main lands were EVER invited to any of your "kings council" (wait...Kyphis and darky were at the last one but they didn't show up). Instead you invited the TKs. That's not only extremely unfair but quite egotistical from your part. You show the rest don't matter. You minimize the importance of the other lands.

 

They are boring, the last time I turned up one of the land leaders complained about me quite rudely later on when I only turned out to help them focus their discussions on what I wont implement to stop them wasting their time discussing things that "chewett might do". When I want to talk to lands I will definitely invite your land dst.

[Rophs]

It seems like people want to know what their land weapons do, and then have that functionality get coded. MB's for example would likely be very simple, it can close the entrances/exits trapping people in/outside.

[dst]

Thank you Chewy but I already told you I will never come to any of those "meetings" :D. I was talking about principles. I was just presenting a situation where non main lands are not taken into consideration because

"We've all gone through the steps to be officially recognized.
When Mur did the kings, the underground wasn't given a "king".  (the cow)

Edited October 12, 2014 by dst

[Jubaris]

Sorry for the lengthy post. This is just an additional description of what I plan to achieve, why are these changes needed and such, aimed mostly at the skeptical audience and admins. Next posts will be consisting of concrete detailed ability suggestions.

 

Nature of lands not manifested, lack of magical development through land aligment and no strategical tools to defend land integrity while there are other characters that are invulnerable are a number of problems addressed in the topic.

By careful choice of the abilities that would get implemented, we can also stimulate the dynamic life of Magicduel. That is accomplished by having an ability that you can't resist using because its that interesting - but the ability effect should also provoke a reaction from the other side.

 

Domino effect is the desired goal, so you get a situation where something is going on, where that something is not someone getting dominated, but an unpredictable competition by a number of parties.

 

One of the MD problems is that there is nothing to compete for, but that will have to be resolved separately.

 

For now, we try to develop methods to interact and add depth to our magic evolution, abandoning the current unmagical Magicduel situation where we have players actively playing for years and not being able to evolve their characters properly without some direct admin interaction, getting in someone's favour, or just being loud.

 

The pure fun of things can also be a source action, rather than a concrete thing for which you fight for, and we should aim for the mentioned items/abilities to be of such 'pure fun' nature.

 

 

We also have to be careful not to overflow the realm with too many new items/abilites, trying to solve all the problems separately.

For the start, each of the mainlands (and afterwards non-mainlands as well, individually analysed) should have 2-3 such land shared items.

Things can expand as per the original effect, we will monitor the situation and see if balance is broken, if there are any problems, did the implemention achieve what it was supposed to, etc.

 

I don't think we should do this all at once, wait the final moment until all lands are ready for this. Start it like with the kingships, few by few.

Each land should put some effort into it, and proportionally based on it, will get its part faster.

 

I will soon start with some concrete suggestions for new abilities. Marind Bell will be my focus, but I will present ideas for other lands as well depending of my inspiration.

In the final moment, we may have more abilities than the number of abilities we plan to implement, but that's alright, we'll pick the best combination.

[Ary Endleg]

What do you mean with land integrity?

[No one]

Will there be anything for the non-main-lands ? Yea, I'm mainly interested in the LotE.

 

Also there was a little suggestion topic with some adjustments to lands (resource adjustment & location tags). Would those also get implemented ?

(I will add a link here as soon as I find the damn thing)

Edit: Darn thing found : Lands affiliations & tags

Edited October 13, 2014 by No one

[Rophs]

Will there be anything for the non-main-lands ? Yea, I'm mainly interested in the LotE.

LotE should be considered a mainland imo, it has a gate connecting directly to NML and it has a reason to fight. MDA is a much more peaceful land, giving them weapons doesn't make sense. UG and Labby shouldn't get weapons because they don't really "count". They are more of "corridors" and not meant to really be inhabited. UG only has one 'real' entrance and that one is inside another land, the other one leads to NML in which a linear chain of locations eventually bring you to a one way passage; it also lacks a gate like MDA or the five mainlands. Labby is similar, although it exists more to give GG parity with the other lands "opposed" to NC. (Parity referring to some way to enter MDA without going through NML).

[No one]

LotE was and is supposed to be a neutral land.
But because of that it should not be left out during the improvements.

______________
Be warned: we may have chosen to be neutral but we can still deal with foes. :)

[Jubaris]

@Ary: Some appropriate level of land defense potential, in the topic I made a few descriptions and references(1) how the system is currently imbalanced in that section which leaves some lands very vulnerable, Marind Bell mostly but Loreroot is not that far at all.

 

@No one: I am in support of development of non-mainlands, on a bit different level, as I mentioned on several occasions in this topic(1). 

In regards to adjustment of the scene tags, they are in large part unrelated with the context of this topic, but I am in support of updates of such nature, I even have a few pending for Marind Bell since this summer, but no answer as of yet.

 

(1) - I know the posts are too long for everybody to read them to the detail, but if I start repeating like in a mantra, it will only make more mess, please check again to find respective references. If a problem occurs, please contact me again.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[Ary Endleg]

That's the thing I don't get. What exactly are you vulnerable from? Actually, what exactly is under threat from being damaged in current situation?

[Soothing Sands]

I think another way to explain this would be transforming a theoretical vulnerability into an actual one in order to stimulate activity and whatnot. There is no 'exactly' because that's what, in a sense, we are trying to figure out here.

 

Also, i'm assuming we are focusing on mainlands because they are the most clearly defined. If a non-mainland has an idea for a land-related item/spell/attribute/ect, I doubt it's going to be shot down just because it's not 'main'. 

[Jubaris]

Soothing Sands presented a nice view, Ary. Plus, the very fact that there are few more potent parties than the rest is a reason enough, even if we forget that MD had wars (and it's not that impossible to have one now) - such difference manifests somewhere else rather than just seeing someone is kicking your behind.

There is nothing to war about, you can't take anything/compete about, but if we want to go into a direction where we have action and conflict of stimulating nature, of course this balance has to be covered.

Such development is irrelevant only if MD in stasis is alright, but is it?

[Jubaris]

Here's a few first suggestions for new abilities:

 

Purge

 

One of the rare(only?) sacrificial-offensive abilities MB should have.

 

land affiliation: Marind Bell

 

Ability:Temporary kills the target for a few hours, drains all of the caster's AP and VE (caster has to have at least 50% of VE and AP full before casting the ability), requires 4000 heat. Cooldown should be at least several days, maybe a week or so. Definitely not more, since real kill items have high cooldown valuing in months.

 

Related item that could carry this ability: Special rosary artifact, help to the mantra used to focus and channel your energies.

 

Connection with the land: Angien's energy burn and their sacrifice to attack, Heretic Archer's initial focus on revenge where he loses his former self, focus of MB on your isolated inner self

 

 

Necromancy

 

This one is probably brainstormed by a lot of Necros through the history, I'm not sure will this suggestion of my entirely satisfy but let's see.

One of the most popular forms of magic in fantasy, yet not present here so far.

 

Can be interestingly combined with the caster of Purge ability.

 

land affiliation: Necrovion

 

Ability:Resurrects a killed player into a(n illusioned, game mechanics wise?) state of a raised corpse. Temporary state, lasts for days/week, because the killed players still have their will left in their corpses, so they can't be subjugated into control. The player should lose some connection with his account abilities while in this state - so no to current alliance, special avatar of a raised corpse (skeletons, something like that), his creatures should be Necro predefined, depending of the current player's collection. If he has draches, he will have same amount of windies in this new state, tormented souls and unholy priests by default, plus maybe something more. Stats are kept, now the player can fight against Molquert's guards on his own.

Once the temporary state ends, he returns to being a corpse, unless resurrected along the way.

 

Reasons to raise someone would be to ask for service of the raised corpse. If someone is having a hard time getting resurrected, or is getting constantly killed, he may find an alternative in this state for some time by getting raised number of times, depending of the agreement with his Necro 'masters'.

 

Cooldown should be around a week or so. Like Purge is an 'inferior' kill spell, so is Necromancy an 'inferior' resurrect spell

 

Related item that could carry this ability: To be brainstormed, because of the numerous options.

 

Connection with the land: Obvious, though someone might say stereotypical. Good, since the world of symbols doesn't shun stereotypes. Dark, occult, tainting nature and death symbolism of Necro connects with Necromancy.

[Ary Endleg]

Oh my Mur, where do I start complaining? This can turn into a huge post but I think I'll save myself trouble.

 

Temporary kill? Do you hear yourself? Killed person just like that coming back to life after X period of time? VERY weird and unexplainable. Creatures come back to life due to their bond with YOUR lifeforce (vit and stats, mainly regen). To what are players bound to that would magically bring them back from temporary death and why it wouldn't be used for "normal" kill also?

 

I find it... "interesting" that the first of MB abilities you suggest is actually an offensive one.

 

Necromancy, I simply don't like how you envision it.

 

Again we have temporary effect of something that would in common sense be permanent yet it has no RP/research/(Mur's) justification for being temporary other than mechanical balance.

 

Just a short reply, because I don't like idea of witch-hunting every single sentence up there.

[Jubaris]

Very weird and unexplainable?

'Death' in MD is just a state of paralysis,  (death in MD has no research base btw, interpretations can be built along the way, but it was not introduced as a natural part of the system) it's a state where you can chat, jump to leader, use items, send messages, receive messages... 

So I am really impressed that your logic system broke just now.

 

The effect of the purge would be just that, damaging shock that would paralyze the target for an appropriate amount of time, death mechanism fits perfectly into it. I agree that leaving it labeled as 'death' rather than just rename it (like renaming ghost stance into a cloaked character for cloak items) is debatable, but there are several arguments that can support it (maybe not eventually win the discussion, but, surviving a round or two ^_^).

 

In regards to your remark about offensive MB ability, the defensive suggestions where the first in the topic - but already existent, or with a few tweaks. Maybe it is 'interesting', but for those who don't wish to see.

[Ary Endleg]

Exactly what I forgot to mention, that I see your idea as paralysis.

 

No man, death in MD is type of death, not a paralysis. It makes you go to different state of existence, you are ghost that is bound by your corpse and we all know that ghost are chatty types who at least say "BOO". :p

 

Yes my main problem is the way you label it.

[Jubaris]

Death should be something final, not getting killed, then resurrected, over and over again, it loses the weight really.

And that's only if we ignore that our ghost can still 'write memoirs', use physical items (rather than cast spells, which should be more logical) and manifest his physical presence in all of the ways I mentioned above and probably some more.

 

Regarding Necromancy and your problem with it - Temporary animation of bones, not because it is such an ability that lasts temporary by default, but because of the lack of power to permanently raise a corpse, after some time it wears off. Maybe it can be permanent at some advanced level obtainable differently, not through shared items but through individual role evolution. When the magic wears off, you become a corpse again.

[Maebius]

Interesting.    Before we get too tied up in the details and definition of Death,  I wanted to weigh in on what is in the larger-scale a very interesting discussion topic.

 

 

Without considering  "things to code to make Lands cool",  I am curious if anyone else would weigh in on the original question.

There are no such things in the gameplay. We've been talking around in MB trying to figure out the best way to manifest land natures.

For now, we think that the easiest solution that will have a point will be introducing new land shared items, powerful ones that will require a lot of land loyalty.

In our case, protective abilities. For Necrovion, it will most likely all be offensive oriented, etc.

 

Here I would argue that each land already does have it's abilities.,  they are just subtle.   

As mentioned before, MB has it's openness and sanctity.  It is Open to all.      And we don't see -too- many shades there lately, I think.     maybe..  ;)

 

What would the other land's "theme" be then?   There's been discussion of Necro,  but so far, nothing detailing how you would perceive Loreroot and Golemus Golemicarum. 

Would you be able to elaborate on any generalized thoughts on there as well?    

 

Also, for the record, I agree with a wry smile about how the MB concept seems worryingly "aggressive", as written.  Not wrong perhaps, but interesting....    

Something to discuss among the SoE a bit more, perhaps...

[Jubaris]

Sanctity in case of Marind Bell is manifested only in the form of attitude of players towards the land, not in mechanics, which still keeps the situation contradicting to the one described at the gates.

Protection against shades has already been partly discussed in the previous posts, Chewie's #3 post question, and my response on #11 post.

 

The theme of other lands... I'm missing a "stomach" feeling about them to be engulfed in visions and 'surely this is it' feelings, which is why I postponed covering them from my perspective.

Golemus and its interest in magic and technology I would like to see manifested in some practical and 'useful' abilities. Something that makes them the best in pure combat techniques for instance, practical solutions opposed to somewhat spiritual found in MB and NV. (those spiritual stuff can still affect combat, but just in a different direction rather than the one where Golemusian one goes)

That old prot-freeze spell would be in that mood, for instance. We don't have to be held back on combat alone, I just can't find different associations at the moment applicable in our realm.

 

For Loreroot, I would carefully step somewhere in the direction of healing remedies, herbs, lots of people I talked with are of an opinion Loreroot should have a good knowledge on the effect of various plants.

Lashtal told me about his ideas for poison recipes. Maybe that would be Necrovion's reflection of Loreroot's knowledge, tainting the purpose of the one making the medicine into something more sinister. (suggestion for Necrovion to taint abilities of other lands, rather than host up a number of original abilities?)

Since it is a forest, I would suggest us to ponder upon invisibility ability (it rhymes, therefore it is a magical suggestion :P) while in the forest itself. 

 

It seems very difficult for the implementation to be balanced straight away, if the intention is for the new features to be the soul center of magicduel's everyday life, but I think the brainstorming first has to pass that 'true to land' phase.