Announcement 3170

[Aeoshattr]

Well, I figure this is likely to start a flame war, but I really don't want to let this go.

Here's the permalink, if you haven't read the announcement yet: http://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/3170

 

TL;DR: Council won't do anything about DD's quest being disrupted by Dst and her lot.

 

Just for the sake of clarity: I am NOT involved in either part - I didn't take part in DD's quest and thus wasn't tossed around the place by Eon and Dst.

 

However, I personally believe this announcement shows lack of integrity - and if I may, cowardice - from the council. As much as I dislike making personal statements, I believe a lot of people will agree that Dst is not swayed by "nice words" and "making friends" - Knowing you, dst, I believe you can confirm that as I genuinely don't mean that as an offense. Furthermore, I happily invite people to try and socialise with Eon in game. So far, I have only seen him/her reply either with "." or with "Eon rolls the dice and gets X". Thus the suggestions of the council are downright Bull in this case. My issue here is with the decision of the council - to be clear. I am 100% convinced that there is no "social" method that can act against the culprits of this case.

 

In my opinion, the conflict between Dst and DD is downright childish and has gone on for long enough. However it's none of my business - and I wouldn't have posted this, if this whole teleporting and disruption would've been only upon DD. Again, don't get me wrong DD: I am not saying by any means that what happened was fair, but I could have understood if you were the only one tossed around the place. However, all quest participants were teleported around, which interfered more with THEM than with DD. As far as I know, DD was handing rewards from his own inventory - so the way I see it, in disrupting the quest you enable him to keep his valuables and actually prevent the newbies that NEED them from getting them. The offense, IMO, is not upon DD but upon the quest participants.

 

EDIT: Also, it's extraordinarily hypocritical to yell "YOU NEED TO BE ACTIVE" and then skull-bash people that actually try and get some people moving around by holding quests :). 

 

So the way I see it, the council is simply afraid to take any decision against dst or Eon or, for that matter, against hardcore vets like them. 

 

Do I have any suggestions on what punishment should be? No.

Do I think the Council's motivation is weak? Yes. My point is - I am not against there not being a sanction in this case, but if so, then it requires a stronger motivation than the one given, and IMO, those resolution suggestions shouldn't have been given in the first place. Makes it seem like the Council has no idea who they're talking about or doing a poor job in general.

 

A social problem can be solved by other means, if social means fail (which I believe in the given case have failed LONG ago.). 

Edited November 3, 2014 by Aeoshattr

[Rophs]

Ninja'd, let's merge the topics?

[dst]

"Dst and her lot"

Really? I was stuck somewhere in East! Ffs! This was not planned. It was a spur of the moment thing from Eon. I cannot believe you think we'd only show this small amount of fireworks!!! Remember mya's death? THAT was a good planning.

 

 

Dst is not swayed by "nice words" and "making friends"

I am swayed by reason and logic (unless you're a genuine <insert female genitalia here> or <insert male genitalia here> in which case don't bother).

 

 

 

DD was handing rewards from his own inventory

 

False info:

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Also, it's extraordinarily hypocritical to yell "YOU NEED TO BE ACTIVE" and then skull-bash people that actually try and get some people moving around by holding quests :).

Yes, it's hypocritical from your part. Just remember who created/was the generator of the most activity in the past almost 3 months (check the forums as well especially LR one if you have no clue).

 

 

And since we're talking about hypocrisy, let me show you something:

 

 

AND this:

 

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/15819-social-solution/

[DARK DEMON]

Aeo has pointed out many good reasons as to why quests should indeed be safeguarded. There are few nowadays anyway, and IMO those who are making quests should be given some sort of support. If not coding, then at least something so that they CAN run their quests.

 

I never asked for punishment. I only asked for my quests to be safeguarded.

 

I'm glad Council made the announcement. They too managed to convince me that since my quest was -entirely- community based (everything involved in chat; dependent on players), I was apparently directly involved in the social part of MD, and according to Council, the proper way to fix it would be through social means, not punishments to everyone who does... undesirable stuff. However, I still remain adamant that look, no matter how much you may hate me, I'm trying to make a QUEST which is helping the game you love become slightly more active than it usually is, at least for one day. Is that really too much to ask? That's what I found shocking from Council's replies; they used my personal issues as an excuse to not do anything about someone harming the community. A community quest is different, personal like or dislike is different, neither should be interfered with each other (or else you'll have stuff like what happened a couple of days back in the case of dislike, or popularity contests in the case of like)

Edited November 3, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[dst]

Spells are earn. I give the right to NOBODY to tell me how to use them.

 

You made the quest for selfish reasons so don't start yelling that you wanted activity for the good of the community. You shunned the community (or most of it) and you said it yourself that you don't need its support (should I look for the topic and post a print screen for reference?). It seems you do and that eats you alive so you run to Council and whined about your quest "being disrupted".

 

You are so blinded by the fact that "dst hates you" that you haven't even noticed it was not me to cast all those spells.

While reading the above Eon told me (and this is a direct quote for which I asked permission from him to post):

 

As usual, DD thinks it's about people not liking him. When I get the chance to screw up anyones quest, I take it. People need to quit trying to make it like they are being singled out.

 

Maybe that will open some eyes (I doubt it but meh...I cannot say I haven't tried).

[Aeoshattr]

False info:

 

 

 

My bad! I was convinced he was sponsoring the rewards.

EDIT: Realised that came from his previous post about the Ring Logs, in which he stated that he would reward silver to those that find out who the "Master" is.

 

Yes, it's hypocritical from your part. Just remember who created/was the generator of the most activity in the past almost 3 months (check the forums as well especially LR one if you have no clue).

 

 

And since we're talking about hypocrisy, let me show you something:

 

 

AND this:

 

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/15819-social-solution/

 

The hypocrisy part wasn't directed at you, dst, moreso to the community and the general "You're not active enough" excuse  - bad phrasing, for which I take the blame.

 

I am curious what you blacked out in the third row there, however.

 

Nevertheless, I hope I got a point across. My issue here is with the council, not directly with what Eon and/or other accomplices did.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Aeoshattr

[dst]

Then I take back the insult and apologize. But the point still stands. My and Eon's actions generated a lot of activity in the past 3 months. And for a long term not just few days (like the recent LR b-day).

[Chewett]

[cquote]and therefore we are loathed to make any form of rules to punish people doing this.[/cquote]
 
Debate it out, If something needs rules, they will be made. But for the moment, people need to sit and have a think about how we should resolve this social issue.[/size]

----
 
EDIT:
 
If rules are the only thing that will make everything magical in MD, then so be it. But I along with council and Mur really dislike the idea of forcing social situations, aka dictating how people can act and use their hard earned spells/items/etc

Edited November 3, 2014 by Chewett

[DARK DEMON]

Yes, I definitely made a COMMUNITY quest for selfish reasons. Nice.

 

Well no, I did not, I decided to have another shot at it.

 

And I'm not an idiot, I know FULL well from the triggerbox and in chat in front of me, that Eon cast which spells, and you cast which spell.

 

 

As for your final comment, and Eon's, well I don't want to copy-paste the email conversation with Council, but I've even been trying to tell them too, and now you all, that its NOT about me that I'm doing this. ANYONE who's quest is disrupted in this way deserves to have their quest safeguarded. I do think that anyone making a quest is helping out the community, for goodness' sake.

 

I'm repeatedly saying this is not a personal issue, not about specifically me.

Edited November 3, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Aeoshattr]

[cquote]and therefore we are loathed to make any form of rules to punish people doing this.[/cquote]
 
Debate it out, If something needs rules, they will be made. But for the moment, people need to sit and have a think about how we should resolve this social issue.[/size]

----
 
EDIT:
 
If rules are the only thing that will make everything magical in MD, then so be it. But I along with council and Mur really dislike the idea of forcing social situations, aka dictating how people can act and use their hard earned spells/items/etc

 

I see what you mean, Chewett. And I know it's not my place to say how MD should be run. However the way the last announcement reads makes it feel like the Council is very dismissive in a sort of "we can't be bothered to do anything about this so we'll put it on the community's shoulders, knowing that there is little to nothing that the community can do". 

No really, I would genuinely like to know what was in the council's mind when they suggested "social" solutions to incidents like Eon forcibly teleporting/locking/killing people. I truly can't think of any "social" thing that would phase Eon, especially given the motivation quoted in dst's post.

 

This is an aspect that rather bothers me, but I believe it's best not to get into it as it's beyond the purpose of this topic, IMO.

[dst]

So far only yours has been disrupted.

 

Allow me to think that you made such a quest KNOWING it can be easily tempered with just to "prove your point".

 

As for the "community quest" well..this is PRICELESS! I ought to see an individual quest created! Aka a quest that an individual creates and that he solves themselves AND wins the award they provided/chose/sponsor. You know what's that called, right? :D (and I am not talking about goals here as in someone sets a goal for themselves and pursues it)

 

We are not all coming from pushing carts dd. Don't try to fool me by telling that you made the quest FOR the community :D. Not even my cat believes you :D

[Chewett]

I see what you mean, Chewett. And I know it's not my place to say how MD should be run. However the way the last announcement reads makes it feel like the Council is very dismissive in a sort of "we can't be bothered to do anything about this so we'll put it on the community's shoulders, knowing that there is little to nothing that the community can do". 
No really, I would genuinely like to know what was in the council's mind when they suggested "social" solutions to incidents like Eon forcibly teleporting/locking/killing people. I truly can't think of any "social" thing that would phase Eon, especially given the motivation quoted in dst's post.
 
This is an aspect that rather bothers me, but I believe it's best not to get into it as it's beyond the purpose of this topic, IMO.

I dont know the answer to what should be done, I would have mentioned it to council when they poked me, Nor does Mur, so why should they?

From everything I'v dealt with them, it seems like they also are unsure how to proceed.

There are a couple options we (Mur, Council, I) could do, none of them are very pleasant for everyone. Some of them even just limit what people are "allowed" to do in MD. Kicking it out to the group is probably the best way of pleasing everyone.

What would you do? Just Ban eon? I dont think thats very fair TBH.

[dst]

And a "solution" to all those "problems": DO NOTHING. Take it as it is and move on. NOTHING is permanent in MD (not death, not spells not anything). Imo such things bring flavor to the whole aspect of the game. If combined properly spells can create amazing effects.

 

As for the "disrupted quest": a simple teleport to goe would have solved the entire issue and the quest could have been continued. But no! DD chose to stop it. Why? Because his point was proven. He didn't want to run the quest in the first place. All he wanted was a reason to ask Council for such an announcement (or maybe rules or punishments for me and Eon).

[Chewett]

----

Also, iv talked to Eon, treat him with respect he is a really nice guy.

You want a social solution to DD's problem?

For DD's first roleplaying session of his new role, I went to a number of people who might disrupt it and asked them not to. Including Eon. He agreed and DD was left alone.

Ofc DD doesnt like people to know that someone(me) he has told to never talk to him again helped him. So no one actually knows this. But there, I used a social method to resolve the "eon problem".

Edited November 3, 2014 by Chewett

[Ungod]

He didn't want to run the quest in the first place. All he wanted was a reason to ask Council for such an announcement (or maybe rules or punishments for me and Eon).

How do you know? If what you say is true, then what you did is fall into the enemy s trap. Also, it means we (the participants) have been used by DD. 

[Aeoshattr]

----

Also, iv talked to Eon, treat him with respect he is a really nice guy.

You want a social solution to DD's problem?

For DD's first roleplaying session of his new role, I went to a number of people who might disrupt it and asked them not to. Including Eon. He agreed and DD was left alone.

Ofc DD doesnt like people to know that someone(me) he has told to never talk to him again helped him. So no one actually knows this. But there, I used a social method to resolve the "eon problem".

 

Would that be valid if someone else other than you (or someone holding a function similar to yours in MD) had done it?

[Chewett]

 

Would that be valid if someone else other than you (or someone holding a function similar to yours in MD) had done it?

 

I didnt ask MD as Chew the admin, I asked him a personal favour. I asked him as his friend, and he accepted that he wouldnt do it.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Chewett

[dst]

How do you know? If what you say is true, then what you did is fall into the enemy s trap. Also, it means we (the participants) have been used by DD. 

 

Trap? I don't see it as a trap. A trap causes injuries and pain and all that. It caused nothing for me except fun. And I would have done it even knowing it is a "trap". Because all in all the only loser here is DD.  You for example got a free ride to East where you gathered herbs :P.

 

I didnt ask MD as Chew the admin, I asked him a personal favour. I asked him as his friend, and he accepted that he wouldnt do it.

 

What most players don't understand is that Eon is a great guy that has friends to whom he listens to and helps and all that stuff a friendship involves.

 

Also, I will take his suggestion (Eon's) and post this link here:

 

http://mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm

 

I got this link by pulling a chat from MD ( seems the "promoter" was Amber so I am giving her credit for it although I have it from someone else).

[Ungod]

So how do you know he didnt want to run the quest in the first place? 

[dst]

Cause he would have done something about it. Like get some teleport spells (although he has some) for example. Talk to others and ask for help is another example (and in advance not during the quest - although since he burned most of his bridges this could have been useless). Design a quest that can be run without being spoiled by others. I refuse to believe that he didn't know the risks of making such a quest (he is quite old in MD and he was an lho after all). But he went ahead anyway. And lots of other stuff he could have been done differently. He choose a risky path imo just so he can prove a point and NOT actually run the quest.

 

He thought it's a win win situation: if quest runs smoothly - white ball for him in his own quest for lab citizenship; if quest fails - reasons to whine and ask for rules and restrictions and so on.

 

He never ONCE came to me and ask me not to temper with his quest. I was actually planning to participate but something came along and when Eon asked for help (he would have not need it if planned ahead) I provided. I do that for all my friends and even for some I don't consider friends but which I like for one reason or another. DD lost a valuable friend in Chewett. If Chew would have come to me and asked me not to interfere I would have probably not done it (Eon would have understood for sure so there was no reason not to listen to Chew and grant him this little favor).

[DARK DEMON]

Because his point was proven. He didn't want to run the quest in the first place. All he wanted was a reason to ask Council for such an announcement (or maybe rules or punishments for me and Eon).

 

Its obvious here who's blinded, really.

 

The only reason I stopped it was because people didn't want to participate anymore; they were fed up. And they knew that any attempt to go back would result in mass teleportation again. And you -seriously- think I have so much time to waste, that the purpose of my quest would just be to make this announcement... no comment.

 

And I did PM Eon asking nicely to please not ruin the quest, but it was ignored and I cancelled it.

 

I won't bother replying in this thread anymore unless its really necessary.

Edited November 3, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[dst]

Really? People didn't want to participate? Did you ask them? I believe Amber was already at the entrance of the Labby when you called it off. And Legna went to the Laby spot and waited. You canceled it because you wanted to not because others wanted it.

[DARK DEMON]

Yes. Nope. No, but they said in chat. And yes I know. I know that too. And no.

[Lania]

After the second time, I actually didn't want to participate anymore. And that only because I calculated my chances and I realized I didn't have a real chance at winning. Oh! And waiting for ap regeneration and Rophs keeping Legna at the gazebo and the late hour, I had to go to sleep. :P

[dst]

Did you specifically ask them: should I stop the quest or not? Or you just decided to stop it because you already proved your point?

 

@Lania: I was talking about the last teleport. After Eon's first one DD said something along the lines of:

 

"Oh, it's just another challenge to the quest"
 "I'll just ask council for more rewards since it'll take longer"

 

But then he run to council and whine.

 

News flash: casts are limited! We cannot cast more than we have! Oh wait...I'm preaching to the deaf...Silly me!