DARK DEMON Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) The mind is a terrible maze to get lost in. The challenge of life... ____________________________________________ For most people, "getting stuck" in a problem is a bad thing, and that is normal. The mind is full of crossroads and there are many moments where we just don't know which path to take. Some of these paths were always present, some were enforced by getting influenced by others. In another situation, the mind offers nothing but a dead end. These are the times when it is difficult to move on. ____________________________________________ I'm gonna take a turn here and move to something else. "Getting lost" in the Labyrinth for most people is confusing and frustrating. Repeatedly running around in circles seeing the same scenes, then that spark of hope when you realize you found a new path, only to see it lead to a dead end. Nobody wants to get lost in there like that, its just normal. _____________________________________________ However, there are some people, very few people, who like to get lost, want to get stuck, for numerous reasons. Curiosity? Self-enlightenment? Intuition? It varies from person to person. These people want to explore their minds deeper than what is deemed as "normal". To see what the hidden side holds for them. And the results are baffling. Now, we all know that our mind controls us, not the other way around (whatever "us" is :P). Most of the time, our minds protect us from knowing/doing that which we should not. Quick question: When we search our minds for something (eg: what you had for lunch 236 days ago), are "we" actually searching for it? The mind already knows it, somewhere, but why can't we access it? (and yes, the mind indeed has it somewhere but it is inaccessible at times, that's why the word "reminding" exists). Think of the mind as a huge library here. What controls what "we" find in the library/mind? The mind itself? Does this mean the Labyrinth decides what path we take, even though we don't know ourselves? O.O (stay with me! :P). People often forget that we cannot reach the depths of our mind ourselves. We can try to make it happen, but we cannot be aware of what the consequences will really be. And in order to make it happen... you have to get lost in that maze. Why get lost, why not follow intuition or forge your path, one might say? Well, simply because when you are in control of what you're doing, you only see/get/attain what you were looking for. You restrict your vision (aka only look for the library shelf that interests you, rather than looking for what the library has to offer you as a whole). Now, the connection to what I initially said at the start. Wanting to get lost in the Labyrinth is not "normal". It's what people call "madness" in extreme cases. Similarly, getting lost in your mind, trying to access/explore your mind for nothing in particular, testing it to reveal what's hidden... can that be called madness too? Of course, the person himself won't be mad... the term "madness" is just a word we use to describe behavior that makes no sense. But, no sense to who? Us? What about the "mad guy" himself... surely it makes sense to him? Now I saw the length of this post and decided to stop here with one last thing: Is it worth knowing what you shouldn't? Edited February 1, 2015 by DARK DEMON Aeoshattr, Rophs, Ars Alchemy and 6 others 6 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lashtal Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Now, the connection to what I initially said at the start. Wanting to get lost in the Labyrinth is not "normal". It's what people call "madness" in extreme cases. Similarly, getting lost in your mind, trying to access/explore your mind for nothing in particular, testing it to reveal what's hidden... can that be called madness too? Of course, the person himself won't be mad... the term "madness" is just a word we use to describe behavior that makes no sense. But, no sense to who? Us? What about the "mad guy" himself... surely it makes sense to him? Now I saw the length of this post and decided to stop here with one last thing: Is it worth knowing what you shouldn't? Wanting to get lost, be it in your mind, in a labyrinth, in the open sea... It's no madness. I dare to say -call me mad- it's THE challenge with yourself. It implies abandoning all points of reference and preconceptions, going with the flow... dissolving your ego, your identity, WHAT YOU ARE, and reconstruct it anew. It's pushing the boundaries, it's enlarging the size of the cube. Of course, it can lead to madness: you can get lost. But you know that if you find a path - your path - you'll come out stronger. Azthor, Eara Meraia, Assira the Black and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrian Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 theres an old saying, "you have to get lost in order to find yourself" it sounds a little chiché but sometimes you have to lose everything in order to find the something youre looking for, its also a pretty common thing that after you find the one thing youre looking for, when youre not looking for it, and in some cases, that you forgot you were searching for it Myth, DARK DEMON and Assira the Black 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeoshattr Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Is it worth knowing what you shouldn't? Hm. I am very split on this. If I am to respond OOC, then yes. Knowledge is of the utmost importance, whether it is arbitrarily deemed that you should or should not be aware of it (if that makes sense?). OOC, I have found out a number of events that were concealed from me from my early childhood, and despite their rather.... traumatic, negative nature.... I am glad that I am aware of them. If I am to respond IC, as Aeo, then no. Things that conceal themselves or try to escape you are not worth pursuing. They only bring pain, and the pain is not lessened by the achievement or the reward you might get for success. If you should not know something, then there is a reason for you not to know it, and you're better off without it. Back OOC, I found that to be a very eloquent and interesting post, DD. Good job. DARK DEMON 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted February 2, 2015 Root Admin Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 "Is it worth knowing what you shouldn't?" idk really..i just know it comes with a price..multiple prices actually, one of them being not to interfere with what you know (ooc) hmmm, aparently there is something behind that thick skull of yours dd :D , nice question. Kyphis the Bard, Rophs and DARK DEMON 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azthor Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 With "shouldn't" come the questions: "according to what, and whom, for what?" Our continued well-being, or sanity, perhaps? The sane and insane are symptomatic, and the pathology of symptoms is, without variation, symbolic in essence. The insane is the symbolically degenerated, the brilliant is the symbolically exalted. Modern cultures are hegemonic enough that we no longer often see truly extreme variations in standards - those elements that might seem outright bizarre or alien to another culture. But observation of the registers of the bygone institutions of other (and former) cultures, assuming at least some elements of consistency can be grasped through historical analysis, leads us to believe those symbolic standards may be at least somewhat subjective - that is to say, elastic - even if there may be some inherent element of inherent human nature (or nature in and of itself) to be found. The question is both provocative and alluring, and so because it is a highly political question; that is to say, it does not concern a matter where the viewpoint has been highly naturalized by individuals in society. As such, there is room for moral (read: habitual, arbitrary, and hence political) discussion. But there is no correct answer - there is no logical conclusion to be found (is there ever?). Personally, I do not have the unwavering faith in human thought necessary to believe knowledge is unconditionally desirable, and I also recognize that subjective ignorance can, in the right circumstances, achieve a given effect much more easily than any amount of knowledge - and knowledge is, in and of itself, a form of violence to be exerted upon the self. However, I am not sufficiently trusting of others to leave myself entirely to their design - and that is why I'd rather be aware of (or at least feel aware of) than not. lashtal, Myth, Rophs and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menhir Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 But there is no correct answer - there is no logical conclusion to be found (is there ever?). This is it from my point of view ... Azthor you nailed it and saved my precious time. Your answer is leading to a deeper talk about the topic without the possibillity to reach a commonly accepted end ... with this in mind leading again into the "getting lost" stage. DD it is a very good question for an endless and time consuming philosophical discussion if you have the will to spend precious time. Azthor and DARK DEMON 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragual Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Ya know, this all makes me think of a Doctor Who episode where the... Mmm... *SPOILER ALERT!!* ... Kingdom of Britian began to live off a 'Star Whale'. But in order to keep the thing moving, they 'had' to construct a device to bring the thing pain daily. Knowing this, they knew that the people would live in agony remembering what their lives cost the entity on a daily basis. So they devised a sort of voting machine that every so many years, you would be given a choice. You could choice to let the thing go OR you could choice to forget what was happening. (I realize the explaining process of this is kind of horrible.. >> Words aren't my friend right now.) But at the end of the episode, some one was brave enough to release the beast at the understanding that it came to them, because of mushy lovey crap. So it turned out they didn't need to put it through the pain, and they freed it. Everyone lived happily ever after and so on. Long story short, I feel that this is a vote towards a "Yes, it is worth knowing that which you shouldn't". Forgetting things that hurt you... Traumatic events that your mind has made you to repress... It's better to remember them so you can face them. As frightening as it may be, you will recover a part of yourself, while giving up another part. But giving up parts of yourself is a good thing. We all change and take on new faces over the years. Not just ones with more wrinkles, but with a new name and new self. Edited February 2, 2015 by Dragual Rophs and DARK DEMON 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myth Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 The mind is a terrible maze to get lost in. The challenge of life... ____________________________________________ Is it worth knowing what you shouldn't? If you ask me, what one shouldn't know is "everything". It's quite unclear to me if that would turn anyone insane, or save them from insanity, because of all the knowledge. Either way, it's a risk I'd be willing to take. DARK DEMON 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ary Endleg Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 The mind already knows it, somewhere, but why can't we access it? (and yes, the mind indeed has it somewhere but it is inaccessible at times, that's why the word "reminding" exists). Are you sure that some "useless" (the ones that brain deems useless, such as your afternoon snack 10 years ago) memories don't get permanently erased by brain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARK DEMON Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Are you sure that some "useless" (the ones that brain deems useless, such as your afternoon snack 10 years ago) memories don't get permanently erased by brain? I'm no brain specialist, the above was an exaggerated example. But then again, how can one possibly know for sure that the memory got permanently erased? :P ___________________________________________ Thank you all for your constructive responses. It is indeed interesting. What I meant when I mentioned madness was a person who doesn't have any ulterior motive to find his own path out, who doesn't want anything else other than to be lost, and seeks enjoyment from it. Who would call such a person mad? Yet, is he really mad? Was it ever his own choice to be this way or is "he" under his mind's control? It might have been, initially, but what if he regrets it and wants to return back? This is how I thought of the mind to be a dangerous maze. Since you are the one under its control, what if you end up losing the ability to navigate/explore it or return back to "normal", because you have pushed it too much? What if the time comes when the mind no longer offers "you" to choose a path, because it's something you shouldn't know anymore? (you're not the same person you were before; you don't have the same choices; some of the "should"s become "shouldn't"s and vice versa) What decides what your mind should/shouldn't know? Edited February 2, 2015 by DARK DEMON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myth Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Each mind is different based on the circumstances which have surrounded it in the past. Because of this, each will react differently to the same impulse. What stirrs curiosity in me might anger others, and vice versa. What decides what your mind should/shouldn't know? The mind itself directly decides that. However, this decision is based on the multitude of impulses it will have analyzed up to that point, making these impulses the actual decisive factors. lashtal and DARK DEMON 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menhir Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Are you sure that some "useless" (the ones that brain deems useless, such as your afternoon snack 10 years ago) memories don't get permanently erased by brain? I´m 100% sure it´s not erased. For example I had hundreds of memories coming back into my consiousness from childhood (age 3-10) in the last years. Nearly all of them had no deeper impact at that time, very random happenings (just my walks to school or a bird in the snow or ...). All is saved somehow somewhere and I would like to explain more and go much deeper into this stuff but ... my precious time is rare at the moment. So sorry. DARK DEMON, Rophs and Myth 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ary Endleg Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I´m 100% sure it´s not erased. For example I had hundreds of memories coming back into my consiousness from childhood (age 3-10) in the last years. Nearly all of them had no deeper impact at that time, very random happenings (just my walks to school or a bird in the snow or ...). All is saved somehow somewhere and I would like to explain more and go much deeper into this stuff but ... my precious time is rare at the moment. So sorry. When you do get time, I would like to read about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rophs Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Wanting to get lost, be it in your mind, in a labyrinth, in the open sea... It's no madness. I dare to say -call me mad- it's THE challenge with yourself. It implies abandoning all points of reference and preconceptions, going with the flow... dissolving your ego, your identity, WHAT YOU ARE, and reconstruct it anew. It's pushing the boundaries, it's enlarging the size of the cube. Pushing the boundaries, adding faces to the box. That which was once a cube is now a partial dodecahedron/ Of course, it can lead to madness: you can get lost. But you know that if you find a path - your path - you'll come out stronger. theres an old saying, "you have to get lost in order to find yourself" it sounds a little chiché but sometimes you have to lose everything in order to find the something youre looking for, its also a pretty common thing that after you find the one thing youre looking for, when youre not looking for it, and in some cases, that you forgot you were searching for it DD's post in leyman's terms :D "Is it worth knowing what you shouldn't?" idk really..i just know it comes with a price..multiple prices actually, one of them being not to interfere with what you know (ooc) hmmm, aparently there is something behind that thick skull of yours dd :D , nice question. "Is there anything not worth knowing?" or maybe... "Is there anything an entity wants to hide from you that isn't worth knowing?" If you ask me, what one shouldn't know is "everything". It's quite unclear to me if that would turn anyone insane, or save them from insanity, because of all the knowledge. Either way, it's a risk I'd be willing to take. One mustn't worry about knowing everything. Physics makes sure that can never happen =] What decides what your mind should/shouldn't know? The Enemy which you should never destroy. The best you can do to this enemy is overpower them and lock them in a tiny cage, but no matter how thick the cage is you'll hear them running a mug across the steel bars and heckling you from the safety of their cell. DARK DEMON and dst 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myth Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 One mustn't worry about knowing everything. Physics makes sure that can never happen =] Yes, we are quite limited in that regard. You never know when the boundries get redrawn, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rophs Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 We can't know the position of a particle and also derivatives of the particle with regards to time (velocity, acceleration) from a single measurement. We can only grab snippets from it on occasion. But maybe there's ways to use what we know they cannot be to figure out what they actually are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Zl-eye-f)-nea Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 There is a difference between getting stuck, and getting lost. The description you pose for lost, is actually stuck. They aren't mutually exclusive, you might be lost and stuck at the same time, but it is worth noting that there is a difference. You can be lost, without being stuck, you can be stuck without being lost, and you can be both at the same time. Although, I'd argue that if you are stuck, it is more likely that you got lost, and now you are stuck, rather than being both stuck and lost. If you are stuck, you probably know your area quite well by now, so you're now only lost in the sense that you are in a new 'area' and you want to be in your other 'area', you're only lost by virtue of reference, you aren't lost by virtue of no longer knowing where you are, because you know your 'stuck in area' all too well by now. If you don't realise you are stuck, and instead still think you are lost, that's more dangerous, but there is no frustration of dead ends now, only the terror/joy of having no clue where you are. So I pose you a question - what does it mean to be lost? Only once you define what lost is, can you ask whether someone could truly choose to be lost just for the sake of being lost in and of itself, and whether or not you still think this person mad based on that. Is it worth knowing what you shouldn't?..this is circular. If you shouldn't know it, then no, you shouldn't know what you shouldn't know. The more pertinent question being, why shouldn't you know that piece of information?, and can you know you shouldn't know it before you do know it? and once you do know it, will you know you shouldn't? Lets theorise that you shouldn't know it, because it would be bad for you. Then you have to ask, what does it mean for something to be bad for you? It seems like in this case the bad thing about getting lost is a form of social cutting. You no longer match the rest of the blocks. Aka, you are defined as mad. You haven't prodded about whether the person themselves thinks they are mad or not. Arguably you can't be mad and think you are mad, so really this is about everyone else, not the person themselves? If a construct is built of parts, there are homogenous parts and in-homogenous parts, there is also the ability to recognise these two...or not to recognise them. To incorporate them into the construct, or not. Arguably, all things being fractal, some parts are part of a greater or lesser construct and it isn't a matter of choice to incorporate them, they force themselves into the construct as soon as you come into contact with them. They were always there, its just, now you know about them - and it is these things that would come into should we or shouldn't we know them, based on if we consider them good or bad, because they inherently have more power than our own theoretical meaning of choice. Which is, I think, what this comes down to...do you actually have any free will? Not freedom, that is something different and often confused with it. Your body is just as to blame as your mind, given it harvests what builds part of the construct. You like chocolate because it tastes nice, or because other people do, or because it looks nice, which is mostly to do with your experience of chocolate, and nothing to do with just picking it. So your construct traps you into a system based on a set of factors you feel like you chose, but which actually you didn't. You had the freedom to choose chocolate, but you definitely didn't have the free will to choose it. My opinion is that getting 'lost' for the sake of it, in my definition of the term...which I'm aware I haven't defined yet here for you...is an act of free will, and that in having free will, the general populance think you mad. What you should or shouldn't know is defined for you by the construct, and is defined by that as a version of what you should or shouldn't be, in order for it to have more power than you do. Z DARK DEMON, Assira the Black, apophys and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted February 4, 2015 Root Admin Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 in a 'natural' order of events, where everything makes sense and where you can alter that course of events by any new information you bring in...the information about the course itself, is smething that might lead to paradoxes, severe and unnatural errors...that is in my opinion a thing "not worth knowing" if you can't deal properly with it. For example, know when and how you will die...will that be "ok" ..well, yes, if you can remain indifferent and not react to it. If you do react to it, the information cancels itself and will happen still but in ways that no longer coincide with your initial information about them, its like self protection. TRue this can be a neverending discussion DARK DEMON 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Comment removed Edited September 5, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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