Root Admin Chewett Posted December 8, 2015 Root Admin Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 We have very simple rules that should have been used in this case, if you have admin spells you cannot use them to aid your case or resolve something related to you. You get someone else to. I will remind people about this tonight when home. But the rules with this are clear. Grido shouldn't have used the spell. MRWander 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No one Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) I could alternatively have left him outside of jail and said he was abusing a bug? I feel in the end the action I took was appropriate. I feel the admin log is unnecessary seeing as I already clearly stated I had used the Jail spell. I'm not trying to hide my use of it dst, as I didn't do anything wrong. The announcement clearly states those leaving before time will be put back for a longer sentence, I just facilitated this. I am not saying I would not have to work to get the alliance back, I will, but being a King does in fact lend to certain options which mean it doesn't need to be a role alliance to get it back. You requested things that were not due to you, there was no negotiation possible. Frankly it surprises me that you considered I might actually pay up and not do this. It surprises me that you don't know the difference between game mechanics and abuse. And supposedly you were entrusted with a role of trust to protect MD from abuses. As for negotiation ... if you decided that you don't want to negotiate that doesn't mean that "no negotiation was possible" but you "refused negotiation". ---- Darn, Chew beat me to it. Edited December 8, 2015 by No one Ary Endleg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grido Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I in fact did follow the normal process - if a player escapes from Jail I have the ability to return them there to serve out the remainder of their sentence. I followed the rules as per that ann and appropriately used my admin ability. There was no abuse. You have the right to your opinion regarding the alliance, but just because you say it is so, doesn't make it that way. Fang Archbane and dst 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maebius Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 On behalf of non-involved land, Motion to take flame-war off Forums and open official MD Court case, to wit: "Eon vs Grido, in the matter of Jailable offenses or Abuse". Fang Archbane and Ary Endleg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeoshattr Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 On behalf of non-involved land, Motion to take flame-war off Forums and open official MD Court case, to wit: "Eon vs Grido, in the matter of Jailable offenses or Abuse". But it's fun to read... Seriously, I think they are more than capable of settling this themselves. If either party wanted to open a court case, I think they would have. DARK DEMON, Kyphis the Bard and Fang Archbane 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted December 8, 2015 Root Admin Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Locked Make a new topic if you want to discuss this nicely. I will deal with this tonight but all I will say is Grido should have known better than to have done what he did without asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted December 8, 2015 Root Admin Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Havent forgotten. Still not home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted December 8, 2015 Root Admin Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Generally in situations like this you need to step back and look at the whole situation rather than any sum of parts. Here is, from what I can see, what happened and what has angered some people. Grido used a tool which lets his excommunicate and jail Eon, losing the alliance. This is a perfectly legal move, and as one of the kings of the land he can do this (or really anyone holding that tool, but thats another matter). It then appears Eon used a bug to leave jail. Here he made a mistake by not reporting the bug. At this point I think grido tried to send Eon back to jail by grabbing him. From what I can see this didnt work (due to whatever) and therefore he decided to use his jail spell to do so. Here he made a mistake as he forgot the most important rule "Do not use admin tools for situations you are involved in". He also didnt report the bug (until later). And then everyone seemed to make a mistake by blowing up the forum again arguing about who is right or wrong. Roleplay your anger, even dst can roleplay, so can you! (mea culpa dst) For better or for worse, I am the only one who can if what has happened is abuse or not. Yes we have some rules which lead you to a conclusion but at the end of the day MD will always be run by people, and not a set of continuously moving goalposts. So then it comes the question, what do I think? What harsh punishments shall I lay out? The first thing I have to think is, what would I have done about Eon escaping jail? Well he never reported the bug and just used it. I still havent actually had a bug report so Eon is clearly in the wrong here. I hope I will receive one via email/PM soon. Technically abusing a bug and not reporting it, especially one leaving jail is quite a big abuse, but I will get onto that later. Then I have the question, what do I do about Grido who is, clearly, according to the rules, abusing his admin powers by using them to "fix" something. He has admitted that he made a mistake using them and should have contacted someone else to resolve the situation. The rules do point out that Eon therefore does deserve to be put back as he "broke the rules" by escaping, so he does have some footing, but he acknowledges now that he did do wrong. Abusing an admin spell is also quite a big abuse, similar to the one Eon did. But, in the end of the day we have had two good conclusions from this. We have had a little bit of excitement (Eon does send wonderfully Roleplayed PM's) and some action and I have had a time to clarify some rules for everyone. And we have a new bug to fix! (well... newish, I think I know the bug they used) Therefore im going to do nothing to either of them. Grido has understood what he did wrong and I believe Eon will be sending me a bug report tonight. I can imagine some are going to go away from this going "oh letting them get away with murder" but actually punishment is used in MD as a learning point generally. I think both parties have learnt something. I shall survey what is happening over the next couple days and have a think about the situation. Kyphis has already offered asylum so potentially another land might also let Eon escape by doing this. ----- The take home message I would like to impart on everyone is, The rules are not hard and fast and we try and be fair. Both parties have abused something and hopefully learnt something too. And all of this fun, should have been ingame! I act in this situation as the GM (so Eon you can stop sending the marvellously worded PM's asking me to declare my loyalty) because you guys can roleplay, and you should :) Lintara, Menhir, Kyphis the Bard and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted December 8, 2015 Root Admin Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I now have a bug report from Eon. Thank you Eon. Fang Archbane and Kyphis the Bard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted December 9, 2015 Root Admin Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Something that I have apparently missed (but not in a PM to someone) is that "what happens to grido jailing Eon, what happens to the extended time, will you ip ban him?" The answer so that, is I am going to wait and see. I want to have a bit of thinking time to decide what I want to do with the excommunication tools and how they fit into todays MD. Hopefully I am going to see some people roleplaying some stuff ingame :) But I need some time to think. So this point I havent decided on, and yet may do something. If something happens, a new precedent or similar, I will announce it. Feel free to keep sending me questions. I will keep updating this topic. Fang Archbane, Kyphis the Bard and Maebius 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted December 9, 2015 Root Admin Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Those interested in this topic should read my latest announcement: https://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/3739 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted December 9, 2015 Root Admin Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Also, I thank you all for giving me the time to properly formalize how Jail should be working. This announcement overrides a number of older ones and formalizes what Mur and I have been working towards for Jail. Although there are still some problems with Jail I have been working on trying to bring them into line (https://magicduel.com/page/Announcement/view/3540), after the changes to the tags. Jail, like death should not be something entirely removing you from the game, it should be an event, something you can work with and roleplay. If we need to properly exclude someone from the game we have the Ban ability which is a last resort but Jail should be a mixture of punishment and character development. I will make a topic (see: http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/16951-discussion-about-what-is-jail/ ) in case anyone is slightly confused by the announcement and wishes to ask questions. Edited December 9, 2015 by Chewett No one, Fang Archbane and lashtal 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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