Deserted RPCs characters

[dst]

Intriguing change, but what else to expect in an unusual game other than an unusual event. Master Wodin is now no longer the person you knew before, but its a public role, occupied/invoked by whoever will rule the Guerrila Golemicarum alliance. The .Wodin Ullr. character was apperantly deserted by its rightfull owner, but because he achieved such a huge popularity, the character will permanently remain in the game even if its owner will change from time to time. This unusual change is the first step towards predefined game roles that regular player can occupy if they fulfill certain requirements. I am open to opinions on this. If the feedback is good, other deserted rpc roles will become open as public role, and some even specialy created for that, if not, then i will keep deserted characters just as legends in the game and allow owners to resume them anytime they want. Please use the forum for feedback. This is a very important decision for the game future expansion.

This is the issue. What do you think? Should I make a poll? And if yes...what would the options be?

[Ren]

I have to twitch at this decision. It's one thing to CREATE an RPC specifically for multiple people playing it, sort of like the Demo, but to take someone else's hard work and just give it to the next person willing to do their job is sick. On top of that, each RPC has a specific method of roleplaying that creates who that character is. There shouldn't be ANYONE else who can do that properly. Instead, make the role able to pass on, but not the whole character.

Think of it like an identity. I am Renavoid. No one else. This is who I am, and no one can ever precisely fill my role in the exact manner that I do. If I were going to leave the game, I'd rather take the time to "train" an apprentice to fill my role after I leave, but NOT someone to just take over my name and soil my legend. It took a lot of effort to get my character where he is now. Someone else shouldn't be able to just get that.

It goes even a little further for me though, because Renavoid is actually a personal identity. It is my name in all games I play. If you see a Renavoid somewhere, and talk to me, you'll get me. (except RO...that's the only time someone else had my name...wtf....) But, beyond that, it's who I am in life. To my closest friends, I am Ren, no questions asked. If someone was going to take my name, it'd be my kid, or my grandkid to add to my legacy. Not some random stranger who I don't have any affiliation with.

My opinion, and even if it doesn't go down for everyone, I will fight tooth and nail to get such for myself when the time comes.

[Logan Marquis]

Yeah, I believe I am inclined to agree with Renavoid here. I use Logan on lots of different games(even Star Ocean oddly enough :-p) and I'm not sure how I'd feel if I managed to get him to a RPC status and then for whatever reason decided to leave.

Perhaps there should be an option to let the creator of the character decide whether they want to sac the char or let them remain around as a true legacy.

At least that way they can choose. But I have the feeling very few would ever choose to let their character remain, unless it just became too big a deal for them to handle. Who knows...maybe they would?

In this instance I think it's a little different, and as such might benefit all to have him remain. And oh yeah...Ren has a point, RPC's created for this purpose is one thing...this is entirely another.

[Morrel]

I agree with Renavoid.

It's also confusing the game and the game history.

The character, Avatar, stats and personal pages should be kept in a 'record' or 'book' in the library.

Someone could also write a biography of some sort to go with that.

It would also be fun to be able to do that kind of research there, and contribute to the feeling of the game.

Perhaps Your Name will be written in History when your gone....

Or someone could take the character for a walk on rare occasions.. without using chat.. Brrr a ghost. Nice idea for halloween.

[Sacosphilz]

My opinion is similar to Ren's. The character's role should end by default when the player leaves. If a player leaves a character behind, then nobody else should be able to assume that character (unless the previous owner wishes so) because no one can role play as another person perfectly.

Anyway, as I understand it, the character "Wodin Ullr" is a special case. It can be argued that Wodin is created to fulfill a aspecific role in the game, not to fulfill a player's personality, so the role should be allowed to be given to anyone who can fulfill that role properly. But on the other hand, the Wodin we come to know (and love/hate) won't be the same if played by another person. Personally, I also twitch at the idea of another player filling Wodin's place.

The same issue would also come up if any character is passed down from one player to another, even if that character is designed for such purpose. The more familiar players are with that character, the more awkward the transition. (This also means that I wouldn't mind if the player behind .Morpheus. were to change, because I probably wouldn't notice.) If any future "role" should be heritable at all, I think only the "title" should be assumed intact, but the character names and other indicators should be obvious in pointing out that there is a change in character.

[stormrunner]

I agree with ren as well

[Ren]

Thanks, guys. I feel like I'm not crossing any boundaries when I say these are very similar reasons for Wodin's actions. And, by boundaries, I do mean hearing his opinion, and not just inferring what sounds right based on what I know about him..

[Glaistig]

I'm agreeing with everyone so far, with nothing much to add.

[Muratus del Mur]

you are all right.

a character identity is what defines it, and without the same person behind it it will never be the same.

Problem with wodin is that he is a character integrated in the game interface, unlike ren or anyother , except knaty. A good excuse to this change is that wodin is a summoned character. he was created as a new character , to pass controll for a new identity of BigC. As the story sais , wodin was summoned.

Some of the rpc's have abilities that are crucial to the game. If they quit that position a lot of work is lost, both theirs and mine, and the game becomes chaos. Look at knaty missing in action, all his quests lost, all his relations confused.

Of course i will try to create characters specialy for this, but some players that reach to deep in the game and get to be integrated in the game as scene characters, or have crucial abilities (like morpheus that can create dreams, a different game interface with many possible uses), should be played by active people. One way to do this is to build an alliance for a specific role, then have that alliance do the actions, but if the main rpc realy quits, like wodin, then things are different.

I dont need ren character for example taken over by someone else. If ever he will leave he game and an other person will take over his attributions, then he can remain as legend in game, there is no need to have rens account as a public account. But if his avatar was integrated in the interface, such as wodin, it is a different thing.

Anyway, i emailed wodin about this and i am waiting for his relply. One other thing that made me do this is that wodin completely reset his chars. If he will say he doesnt want his char public and we wont reach an agreement, then i will find an alternative way, probably renaming the character and leaving wodin as a regular account so that he keeps his identity but at the same time the interface modifications get used by someone else.

In the page that gives controll over wodins account, its a full description of the situation and that "wodin" its a role to play, based on the progress on a real player that entered MD hostory by hard work. its all there, even his email

I dont want to steal identities, but i strongly think there are a lot of motivated players that could play certain roles much better than their current owners. I will never kick a rpc out if he still wants his role, but if he quits without saying anything, what should i do?

Right now wodin is a "feature", whoever rules Guerilla Golemicarum, gets access to wodin account (different email and pass dont worry) and can play WODINS ROLE to continue the legacy. Abusing the account of missusing it will get the player penalised or banned.

please continue sharing ideeas, its helpfull for me to see what other ideeas you have on how to handle this delicate situation.

[Muratus del Mur]

oh and btw, wodins name was setup for the game, invented by bigc for the game, not an old allready used identity, but yes ren has a good point.

that makes me more convinced that i should not promote players more than a certain level and after that level all accounts should be predefiend and act as role positions.

Imagine the shade sentinel, if it wasnt a predefined role, what happend when that specific player quits reagrdless of reason....all necro forces have no reason or support for their actions? Like i said, some roles are way to important to the game, and its my fault i know.

How many of you seen morpheus in action? I worked a lot on the dreams section for it to be forgotton on some account. Or how many know that wodin actualy has the ability to run a private head contest any time but he never did so..think of the role playing posibilities. Or the custom spells some characters get, just becose their role fits for them.

[meiche]

I do and don't agree with Ren. Yes, a charactar does include the personality, likes, and dislikes of the inhabitor. But what happens when a character who shapes this world logs off, abandons the game or stops doing their job?

So Knator Commander stops hanging out and that story line just dies? We can't challenge, speak or interact anymore?

At the point when you get a shiny golden figure stuck to the side of the road...it becomes a part of the game, not just your guy. If you don't keep up with it...let someone else have it.

As to a Renevoid, if Ren quit, left, whatever...we would miss you. But you wouldn't leave a gaping hole in the map of the game. (Only a gaping hole in our hearts ). So no, in that case you are just gone. You can't reinhabit a Ren.

There are certain positions, even RPCs in this game it would be necessary to replace if they left. I am mostly for it.

[Bootes]

Darn Mur to to this Before I could Respond. I'm pretty sure I understood exactly what he meant from the Announcement.

I agree with Ren, there should never be another Bootes. But I've seen a few people who also want to take on a Star or Astronomy type Role. Personally I would be fine with someone Taking over that ROLE, but not the Character Bootes.

Having Said that I love the Idea of Permanent RPCs (or Permanent ROLES) that can be Filled by anyone who is Deemed worthy should that ROLE become vacated. A Character not Player made, but one that is Inherently part of the Game.

I would Love to see what Mur can come up with in this respect I'm sure there are plenty of Ways to Explain how a Role can be Filled by other Players, such as the Summoned Warrior Idea.

No you can't Become Bootes just be Stealing my method of Custom Capitilization, so

[Calyx of Isis]

I generally take Ren's point of view, but things are moving and changing, and Mur has a serious problem. We very definitely need to distinguish between characters and a POSITION or ROLE they happen to fill. As Calyx of Isis I happened to have created a new JOB TITLE in the game, "Mistress of the Dojo." I hope neither I nor that position completely define the other. Certainly, if I were to leave the game, someone else could be the Master/Mistress, but none could be Calyx.

What needs to happen is that job and characters have to be made separate. Right now RPCs fill a dual purpose's and this is the source of the problem. As RPCs gradually relinquish their roles, the interfaces created for them need to be stripped down to fulfill a specific game function and given a name, e.g. "Chief Astronomer" or "Head Archivist." That interface/job can then be handed to another player who has earned it. It may be that eventually there are a few kinds of special interfaces that can be awarded to players to help them be the character they have created, and other interfaces that get passed around to players to fulfill a specific purpose within the game.

Role playing and fulfilling some game purpose are not necessarily the same thing. They need not be connected, though pairing a unique character with a specific game purpose leads to interesting story evolution.

[envy]

Well, Mur I think your decision is simple. If I were the programmer, I would set the "spirit" of Wodin. Wodins character remains the same and he plays his style the way he does, and speaks to others the way he does. He has a certain personality.

Now, you have a "spirit" of Wodin that whoever is chosen, can control and use to further the game development. You can even make the character, so you can see through it.

But, at no time to change the integrity of the original character. The game goes on and if Wodin came back in a month, his character is still there and the spirit character turns into a statue or disappears.

Your spirit will continue long after your body has quit.

[meiche]

What's wrong with simply making Wodin an NPC? I assume the rit could still be changed occasionally. Let someone else lead the army, and let players bounce off the shiny gold Wodin statue.

[Morrel]

Hmm,

I can see that the job needs to remain because all the hard work that went into it...

Perhaps keep the avatar and abilities, but change the name? Someone else puts on Wodins costume and continues his work. You can even call him Wodin II.

And if a certain knator commander gets lost in the woods, another takes over. Knator Commander IS a position and not a name anyway. Same with a shade sentinel.

I think the player that wants the role should keep his/her stats and creatures. + Avatar and special abilities that go with the job.

As long as those important RPC characters have a Role Name in addition to the player name this shouldn't be a problem. Under the avatar you could write something like

Current position filled by 'player name'

Just like there were Caesars or Pharaoh's ....

I think lot's of players would like such a position..

[dst]

I know that a lot of hard work has been put into creating Wodin. And I know that he had a central role in the game BUT I don't really like the idea of someone filling his position. I for example I wouldn't want to "control" the character Wodin. I want players to know me by my name and I want to create a reputation on my own not on a dead guy's legend. I don't like playing dress up when I know that this is not a costume. It's a corpse... And I admit...I didn't like the guy very much.But the feeling was mutual...

[Suuljin]

i see the problem md is faced with.

in wodins case a detailed description of his ROLE/POSITION should be made to make sure the idea of the ROLE wodin ullr stays true. a possible way to explain the changes in his personality and acting could be:

the great warrior passed away, his soul extinguished, the abandoned armor a mark in the land.

people from near and far visit this "grave", where the desertet remains reminds of wodin ullr. the mourning of his friends, allys can hardly reflect the mourning of the land golemus itself, for it lost a loyal friend and protector...

ancient spirits of golemus, powers of the days of old claim the abandoned warriors finery, breathing new life in this shell. not the same, but with the same purpose, he arises. the purpose of his creation. to protect golemus! ....

when travelers arive at the place of wodins last rest, the armor cannot be found anymore.

just a whistle in the wind, in tongues long forgotten:

weil den helden vieler schlachten leichter schlummer überkommen,

hat das land, ihn zu ersetzen, seine rüstung umgenommen.

do not stand at his grave and cry

he is not here - he can not die!

not the best lines, but you get the idea. someone who wields the english language better, can surely make a very atmospheric description of the events.

so i would say that roles can be past on, with a detailed role-profile, but not personalities...

pretty much agreeing to what has been stated before

[Logan Marquis]

Actually...I could make you all laugh and say something about how the real world loses important people all the time and they end up replaced...effecting the overall "storyline" as they do. For instance, when John F Kennedy was assassinated in the U.S., the Vice President took over and many things changed immediately.

Or when September 11th happened in the US...hell...lives were changed. Those "roles" were filled with new people...even though the world would never be the same.

Is there any given reason the roles couldn't be given to someone else who is worthy of receiving them? Like in Wodin's case...is there another we feel could become the next Wodin...but not truly Wodin?

I realize there are ties, in-game, but again...is it not part of the cycle? :-) Just a few thoughts...And besides...should anyone TRULY be above the game?

[Muratus del Mur]

wodin situation is a mistake because of my fault. i should have never gave him such power and integration in the game. I am now facing a perpetual problem what happens to characters that move up the line up to a NPC? And my sugestion was that those characters become a controllable NPC , and the controlling player will have the responsability to play that role.

I am not talking about other rpc's or pwr's, so talking about bootes or ren doesnt fit this issue. I am talking about rpc's that are almost npc's and have integration in game interface or posess custom abilities that are more than just spells.

Keeping them as only legends and allowing them to come back anytime in the future is an option that will create interesting situation but most likely will come to a situation where these characters will never return and it will be a big confusion. Also it will slow down the game A LOT.

[Innundo]

I agree and disagree with some of everything.... lol

I think Manu has right idea.... create a game NPC / RPC / Whatever... let certain players control those characters as the game needs. Give the players a guideline for the role of the character(good, evil, warrior, scholar) and let them go forth and create the aura.

If a player leaves, another player can take over the character, albeit with a slight 'personality' change, and the world moves on... As long as the new player understands the basic guideline for the character the minor personality traits will come to be accepted.

Just my Humble Opinion

[Ren]

Alright, I slept on this to see if my opinion changed/I came accept things...that didn't really happen. The thing I'm trying to wrap my mind around, is how Wodin is supposed to stay forever. Assume for a second that BigC never quit and Wodin was still running around as usual...then a little while down the road, war finally breaks out. If Wodin won, his mission would be complete, and he would return to his home, with no reason to be summoned for quite some time. If Wodin lost, well, he'd be dead. Either way, you're stuck with taking him off the interface before the game even reached a beta phase (IF the game ever reached a beta phase..). It IS a continuously evolving game, but if it were to be continuous and not keep a steadily growing storyline, then how will it end up being any different from a normal rpg with npcs? "You go to X character for this and Y character for that. Don't get too used to them, in a week, they might not remember you, and you'll have to start over from scratch."

If the characters were left as legends, then the story has something to grow off of. Alright, it makes sense to let Wodin be resummoned, but not so often that his personality really does change whenever someone else takes control of GG.

But, if I'm not mistaken (and really doubt that I am in this case..) the coding effort doesn't have to be wasted. Write it as a function call that you can enter a few quick and easy lines to integrate into someone's profile when they need it. One character's customized ability might actually be able to be revived in the near future when someone else takes up that role as a job. And, once it has been created, there shouldn't be much effort involved at all. I've seen an object appear in a room and then be taken right back out again within 15 seconds. Taking the avatar from the screen shouldn't bee amazingly difficult in the exact same fashion, only now a bit of battle code has to be taken down as well. But, that's a common function that I don't remember the name to right now, so it is again a simple function call that requires next to no text.

In my own personal case, I did set out to get myself as deeply entrenched in this game as possible. I sought to reach a level of knowledge and integration that made me truly one of the Greats in the game. I wanted to see my personal mark on the game, but I do not want to see that mark in the form of my name being played by someone else when I finally decide to set my quill by my book (assuming the Archivist is the role I keep until god knows when...). This is partially because I don't want others messing with my name, but it is also partially because, even when I get tired of a game, I come back to it at some point in time down the road. I almost always do, and with a profound game such as this one, it would take the game shutting down for me to not do so. I wouldn't want to log in and go "oh look...someone else doesn't know how to be...BAH! I don't even have a word to describe myself! But, I know I would be going, "IDIOT! That's not how Renavoid acts!"

I'm not just trying to put this forth as something I don't want for me right now. It has already been said that there is no reason to do this for me right now. But that's the thing. I don't care about right NOW. I know I'm not going to quit within the next week or so. I'm worried about much further down the line when I hopefully get as deep as will possibly be allowed. AND, this is what I hope to be an opinion of others that may hope to reach that same lofty goal. I have the distinct feeling that if you had presented this to BigC when Wodin was first being created, he would not have wanted to do it. I'm not saying I know he would, or "that's simply how it will be." It is a feeling a have after spending a great deal of time with him, and coming to understand his personality a little better. Those of you who know me as Little Wodin, certainly know I did spend a great deal of time with him.

For other roles that become integrated in the future, they could get the job title, perhaps slightly altered in the actual description (to fit their personal use of the role. the next archivist may not value the protection of information quite as heavily as i do, and need a slightly varied description), and the previous owner would then be shifted to a room in the MDA. A room with "statues" of the integrated characters that eventually left, but left a wonderful mark on the game. Clicking on the statues could give a short description, and not much more.

Note: I do keep referring to myself because I am the reference I have to check.

[Muratus del Mur]

again, the situation is simple:

1) what to do with wodin, forget his account forever and hope he will return some day when no one will know who he is, OR have him as a public character where the golemus alliance leader can controll it and its powers

2) what to do in general with the other rpc's that quit the game.

i think thse are two separate matters. for 1 i think we have to talk to wodin itself, i will respect his dicision ! My current solution is implemented as it is and has wodin as a public role to be given to alliance leader of GG. For nr.2 i think they should remain legends and not taken over by others, unless a few special situation that are:

kantor, shade sentinel, morpheus ... thats ALL i can think of now.

bootes, ren, all others, have roles that can become legends if they quit and there is no need for others to take over their accounts. In case of ren that is handeling the archivists, his role is needed, but not his personality, so an other player can do same "job" but rens _IDENTITY_ should be untouched.

With all of the above characters things are clear. Knaty was a public character afterall, and i had more players play that role without any problems. shade sentinel i will make public (or not) depending if i manage to play its role as i want it to be myself so i put it on the right track. Morpheus, i talked to him and he agrees that great responsability comes with sacrifice, if he quits, morpheus becomes a public character, but with a very dificult requirement to be summoned.

So..the only real problem is Wodin. Should things stay as they are or should i do something else.

[Shadowseeker]

In my opinion Wodin should be replaced, in the sense of someone has to fulfill certain conditions and then might recieve the same powers Wodin has. In that way something like fusing with wodin or absorbing the leftovers of his presence. You have to make this in order to avoid the game being slowed down, like Morpheus stopped playing and now the dreams interface has stopped being used.

On the other hand RPCs would like to see themselves irreplaceable (of course, who does not want to leave his imprint), which has to be accepted as well. My suggestion for that would be to make the tags into something that can be passed on, while the follower gets to live out his own variation of that role with certain restrictions. So for these replacements there should be some sort of quest you have to do. And once the old rpc decides to come back into play he should remain as a legend, since he gave up on his role, but now has minor powers than before. Basically the new player can strip the old one of his/her powers, and how many powers are left depending on how much progress the other makes. You could also make this peaceful my making him an apprentice of the other, where one teaches the other.

[Innundo]

If Im understanding right I like this idea... make "Wodin" A legend who passed in his endeavors....

However, the Same 'character' or attributes can be assigned a new name and used as a new summons for Golem... Win, win for all?