Game reset?

[Grido]

lol all in all, what with attacking players every few mins and getting distracted as well within that time, it took me about 4 hours to read it

but i like, i look forward to the upcomming changes

i was really hoping that you mightve actually included about what the Golemus land weapon does as well

[No one]

i'm not one of the 0.01%, i don't know if i'm still an official "bug tester", but you definatly need some help , at least for fixing bugs

We reported a lot of problems (some of them were fixed with force, and some still exists) but there are still many other NEW ones.
I might not be competent or trust worthy enough to touch the code, but at least listen to this advice : get help for bug fixing, it will give you a lot of time to experiment.

[Chewett]

Remeber to stay Ontopic Guys. Mur is a good example of how not to.

I agree with No one here, Mur needs some people to either look over his code or at least help him fix some of the bugs. Anywhere were someone can abuse the game makes the game less fun for everyone abiding by the rules

[Liberty4life]

ouu my, mur wheres the party? why am i not invited again? how much alcohol did ya drunk? can ya send me few bottles? thanks in forward

[Akasha]

I think u all should stay on topic ... and he was not drunk when he posted this.

[Logan Marquis]

To No One ->

To truly read his post is to truly understand, I think, the underlying concept of the game. The idea is not to create the stability or balance of the game, but to instead let the realm stabilize itself and balance itself via the natural balance and order of things.

In other words...perhaps some things are left vulnerable to see who will abuse them, who will search for ways to protect them. Should there not be a counter-balance of those who actually find ways to protect against these bugs? And consider, if you will, that he is looking and feeding off these reactions to the bugs.


In response to Mur's post ->

Everything is an ebb and flow, and I've seen that far more lately within MD than ever before. Each
new idea is brought about to advance the game, but to also open up more opportunity to Mur to watch the masses and see reactions and as he called them "feelings and emotions"...sensations.

MD is indeed an experiment, one that I am not sure can ever be called a failure, especially with where it has come to. And with that knowledge in hand I applaud Mur for being drunk, I mean, honest, about the direction of the game and some of why it's headed there.

And perhaps I'm a programmer, perhaps I am just the type of person who is interested in this thing, but I read it all the way through and actually understood about 99.9% of what was said. Ironically, to read the post is one thing, but to read the feelings, sensations, and emotions behind it, an entirely different one.

I agree with Awiiya, Mur, keep on trucking.

Press on and don't give up. Even if you don't see it, you're changing lives for the better. Making smart people. Lol.

[cryxus]

[center]



[b][size=7]42[/size][/b]




[color="#0000FF"][b]Chewett: How the Hell does that contribute?[/b][/color][b][color="#0000FF"]Consider this a warning[/color][/b]

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Edited April 8, 2009 by cryxus

[Burns]

that's an insider, chewie... read the 'Hitchhiker's Guide to Galaxy' ;-)

[spoiler]42 is the answer to 'the ultimate question about life, the universe and everything', but unfortunately, the ultimate question itself is not found yet ;-)
[there is a question formed in the book, namely 'what do you get if you multiply six by seven?', but you don't consider that to be the real question, just an idea of the suoercomputer that worked on the question for 10 million years... ah well, that's too great to explain][/spoiler] :lol:


[color="#0000FF"][b]I have read those books. I know all about earth and the mice and the H shaped buildings and the nanobot doors that rebuild themselves and the child of Athur Dent and Trillian Astra and the restaurant at the end of the universe and Zaphod Beable Brox and pan galatic gargle blasters and the guide... need i go on? My point is that it doesnt contribute to the post that Mur made.[/b][/color]

[Willem RedBeard]

A fantastic read... long and winding, but I think that's just how I like it. I still consider myself very new to MD, and reading this both broadened my understanding and deepened my respect for the developer and the game. I look forward to any change that comes from a person like Mur. Well done.

[Yrthilian]

Wow what a read.

It would seem Mur you have plenty in mind to tease us with and to challange us.
I for one look forward to this and i am also alway a willing test subject

I know i have not been on much in the last while and wodin has suffered for that too
but not beeing able to have 2 accouns loged in on asingle system is a pain but a
understandable pain.

I am not a programmer and i wont claim i can understand the code in place.
to be honest it confuses me anyways.

I am a techie and technology is the main thing i can deal with. I for one love the MD world
and i hope that in my playing i have showen this. I do beleve you work is great and i have always like
alot of what you have nbrough in to the realm.

The is of corse some things i dont like but at the end of the day it is the choices that are needed.
I have much in my head to say and dont have the time or the ablity to express it all at the moment.

it will take a few days for me to do it and even them i will just end up rambling on.

If you need someone for testing on or just to help in anyways you ask I am more than happy to help even if it buggers my account up

Have a good day and i look forward to the experemints

[phantasm]

woa after i passed out and gained conciousness again i finished reading it. A very good read for someone new like me to find out some of the workings before my time. Most of it sounds very interesting and I am excited in anticipation of seeing things of this world that will hopefully soon be here.

[I am Bored]

it seems mur, that you aren't very good at speaking little and saying much, as you have to speak much to say much.... i am good at speaking much and saying little.....

and i managed to read mur's post before it going idle...

[Jubaris]

[quote name='Jester' post='28306' date='Apr 6 2009, 01:30 AM']I'm in favor of a game reset. I think the realm as it is now is not a good place for roleplaying. There are too many random back stories, too many people who think they used to be Gods, and too many roles that don't fit with the story line, not to mention the copyright infringement as far as the eye can see. (in my opinion, no offense intended to anyone). This also has the side effect of ruining the actual game story for me.

I do think that past achievements should be recognized, if that is at all possible, such as all RPC and PWR getting something, but I don't know if that is possible. As for the people who would quit because of their months of hard work, I don't think what you did was in vain. Training has enabled you to better understand game mechanics, so you'll have an advantage at the start (unless that is completely changed as well) and roleplayers or alliance members will still have the social network they built up (unless Mur has found a way to reset our memories, which I doubt, but I'm still wearing my tinfoil hat) which will also give them an advantage at the start of the game.

I am biased in this regard, since I'm a newer player, but it would start me off nearer to the ancient players, so I would have a better chance to pass them.[/quote]


altought i would be very sorry to see game reset (people frustrated, lost time etc.) i agree with Jester
there are many people with silly role... mp3 comes around and says: "Hey, i'm a god of thunder, i cannot die, and i can send lighting bolts to get your VE to -12k", now thats just aint right! BE MORE CREATIVE! GET A PROPER ROLE! MORE REALISTIC

[Burns]

and you think a pure reset could change that, Princ?^^

factions will possibly change that, and i will definitely take some lessons from every tutor i can get a hold off to improve my shallow RPing XD
atm, i'm that deep into my role that i have a totally normal every-day-job in MD when i'm not needed, which is stat-farming, i need a nice little 'i can do magic - FEAR ME!' role myself :lol:

[Jubaris]

like i said, i do not agree with the game reset but its like this:
if game resets, that time would be good for monitoring new roles, maybe an RPC who makes papers instead of that NPC, when he gives out the forms, you send them back and he approves/refuses them
just an idea...


it would be really cool if there were scrolls (there are already highlighted scrolls in the archives, if i can put it like that) that contain biography of each player, but player that did something notable

[SoulTear]

Well after some time away Yami emailed me recently about this War between Golmeus and Loreroot (as some of you may remember when I left I gave Yami my Aqune account so she could still make weather when needed for roleplay etc.). That piqued my curiosity so I decided to check out the forum to see what was the cause of all this. Well other then finding this very interesting thread I didn’t like what I found or how things turned out for Loreroot and while I won’t comment any further to prevent more heated arguments on the forum suffice it to say the Self-Righteous Golemus Bullies were very lucky I wasn’t playing when they declared their war and have neither the time nor the inclination to do so now (no I’m not coming back yet) since I would make them sorry for what they did (and yes I know all about they’re misguided paternalism to save LR from itself, must be nice for you to be so all wise and benevolent isn’t it guys?). Anyway I’m still shocked by all this but that’s not why I posted here, back to the topic at hand.

While I think Manu’s ideas about how to maintain a game world indefinitely are fascinating (but will it work?) though as usual the exploit toadies (oops I mean ‘bug finders’ ) feel their worth is threatened by any change in game’s paradigm (if there is some truth too what he says it could defiantly be worth something to the software industry, adaptive AI without Neural Nets? Are you using Genetic Algorithms?) I think a full reset would be good for the game and would be unavoidable in a ‘normal’ game. Of course I don’t mean now but eventually when critical improvements to the game engine need to be made (which will take time) and would in any case necessitate a full reset and advancement to an MD 2.0. As far as the inevitable losses in the MD community is concerned MD already lost nearly all of its really old players (who started 2006-2007) the ‘old’ players now are those that started mostly in early and middle 2008 and personally I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the currently ‘old’ players leave never too return if I ever get back. There will always be new players that come in as long as enough advertising is done and a new and yes maybe even better community will develop.

This is the alpha after all and we all knew it would end eventually so we should not be shocked when it does. After all do you play this game for fun or just to show off? I think it would be a lot more fun if some serious changes were made to the way the game works (especially now that its creator knows how people react to some things). If you just play to show off something you have worked hard for (‘grinding’) then I would suggest you save that sort of desire for real life where there are plenty of opportunities for it in making a career for yourself.

I suppose given the last post I made on story integration my opinion on this topic is not exactly unexpected but I just want to say one more thing. Remember sometimes its better to cut your losses when something has become too unwieldy rather attempt to save something that really isn’t worth saving anymore otherwise you end up obsessively working on the same thing forever.

One final suggestion I have that ties in to what was said about how hidden algorithms are being built behind the combat system displayed by the combat log and that is to eliminate the combat log entirely leaving only the animated creature fight. For those that remember the combat log was originally put there when the combat system was being tested so that players could judge from it whether it was fair and balanced and operated correctly and report it back to Manu (this was back when he read all pms, yes it was a very long time ago) which they could not really do from the animated screen alone. It was not supposed to be accessible by the players indefinably only the animated creature fight was (at least that is the impression I got) but like many temporary features it became all too permanent, now it is central to combat and the animation hardly anyone bothers with at all. Of course the animation doesn’t show statistics as well so it prevents the kind of number crunching the combat log allows which is what we want The idea being that that the character only observes their creatures actions and learns from that rather then from analyzing the values in the output screen.

[Muratus del Mur]

updates on the bot.
It seems that the survey revealed some unexpected data. Also my research into this field showed me that i opened something like pandoras box, not sure what will come out. I had some amazing results but also terrible failure. At this point i think there is defenetly something there, but the problem is that i am not sure it will be a general recipe for any personality. The bot clearly has trouble 'sensing' some of you, i can;t say for now if its because the random answers you game out of boredom or because of the random talking that made no sense (in chat), but some results are shouting out loud there is something there.
I need to work on this more far away from keyboard and analyze it before testing anything else. Somehow my enthusiasm for building it as a functional thing turned very fast into some sort of curiosity about the things i found out. I feel like taking a vacation just to be able to understand the things i discovered so far, wich are indeed amazing.

Like i said it wont work on anybody, or at least i believe so right now, but afterall each one is so different and even our intuition does not work in all situations so i do not know if its how it is supposed to be or i am missing something.

In so many years of programming i fear my mind got used to logical things and that something can or can't work, but not in between. 1 is 1 and 0 is 0, in a logical sense, but this thing not logic.
i fear this goes more into psychology research than a fancy MD feature, but, would't be the first one

I hope i didnt create a mass histeria when i called it ANGIEN, it was just an example showing i could implement it and name it and make it part of md in a way. I received some panicked pms about this so, sorry, it was not some secret clue, just an example.

what else ...
oh yes... i have to stop writing before i do it again...endless posting ...bahh i hate them to read, love them to write ..so selfish

[I am Bored]

well now i know why i didn't see many mp4's or mp5's when i joined... as the last reset was at the very least 8000 accounts before i joined

[Harion]

[quote name='King Manu' post='29049' date='Apr 18 2009, 08:00 AM']In so many years of programming i fear my mind got used to logical things and that something can or can't work, but not in between. 1 is 1 and 0 is 0, in a logical sense, but this thing not logic.
i fear this goes more into psychology research than a fancy MD feature, but, would't be the first one [/quote]

if i have understood correctly everything that you have written in this thread,
and guessed correctly what you are aiming to do,
then i'll tell you: you are right - a pure programmer alone cannot do what you aim to do
social systems cannot be based solely/entirely on logic
humans are psychological beings - we are part rational and part irrational
(as an aside, this is why most prevailing models of economy failed -
they were based on assumptions that man as a consumer is logical
and can therefore be quantified with a formula
forgetting that humans in general, even those with PhDs,
are evolved from primal animal, and are wired and born with irrationalities
that cannot simply be erased by years of study and conditioning
otherwise we wouldn't be humans but robots --
hence the result, we are in our present quandary which is an economic collapse
which better minds might've prevented if those who were on control before
just didn't think they were gods and believed so much in the supremacy of numbers and math)

so how do you program a self-learning algorithm to be born from the minds of many
when you can't control how any of those "parents" think?
do you just screen for "proper parents" and exclude those that have psychoses
whose "neural networks" might just corrupt the system when it breaks down on itself?

i am not a programmer (in the true sense)
and don't have the learning to fully understand present programming
but i have the mind of one, and when i was still in school, was very strong in logic
and aced all the basic programming language subjects that was taught in school

what i am trying to say is, because of this, my mind isn't molded into a prejudice
and because i have the the fortune to study a lil bit of psychology
and have read mounds on subjects that deal with social experiments
i know exactly how you feel (well, if ever i am right in what i think, lol)

tell you though, you are right in one aspect:
you need a vacation - a time away from all of this
a time to sit back and view all of the things you have done
and think not in terms of being the "creator" of anything
but the "facilitator" of some thing
then you need to ask yourself

are you still the master
or are you the slave?

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Harion' post='29351' date='Apr 24 2009, 08:27 PM']hence the result, we are in our present quandary which is an economic collapse
which better minds might've prevented if those who were on control before
just didn't think they were gods and believed so much in the supremacy of numbers and math)[/quote]

Actually there were a lot of theories that predicted the crash. One based entirely on math predicted the collapse about five years before it happened and was only half a year off on the date. At the end of the lecture about this prediction, one person in the audience asked the question 'but now that people know this will happen, won't they change their actions to avoid this outcome and make the theory void?' The answer was a single word: 'greed'.
You might think that greed, opposed to caution, is an irrational factor, however if you look at it from game theory, it is the rational choice, since there is no way of convincing the other 6 billion people to make the 'safe' choice. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma) And even if there was a way to convince the others, they would have to forfeit a huge amount of short term profits. As long as one changes everything to cash the day before the crash, that person has made a large profit while the ones that don't have debts. It is the logical choice, albeit very selfish.
In essence: large amounts of people are rather predictable, even though you can't predict much about a single individual.

And back on topic: it's nice to have a confirmation that a periodical reset wont happen, but whether or not there will be a reset has never been stated. I've read the giant post a couple of times and based on what I would do (there goes any and all credibility) and the non-explicitness I'm inclined to think there will be something like a partial reset.

[Tzaroth747]

[quote name='Harion' post='29351' date='Apr 24 2009, 02:27 PM']are you still the master
or are you the slave?[/quote]

He is both. Always has been, always will be. As are we.

Humans -- evolved from primates. Rational & irrational. What have we? Desires, needs, thoughts, standards. Mix them all up together, you get a mindframe. What is life? The interplay of mindframes seeking similarities to fulfill their desires. Attractions.

MD is a strange attractor. It offers much, to many. Complex interplay within a created system makes for an interesting, surprising social environment. Many different mindframes, many different desires and attractions/attractors all operating within the same system. Sounds fun, no?

Thanks Mur

I am a slave of my desires, of my mindframe. I am the master of my thoughts, of my creations.

Just like you.

[marleybob]

i hav no problems with it tho the time needed to ages certain creaures (eles) will cause irritation for many,

[Muratus del Mur]

i discovered as i do allways that perfection is nothing without imperfection. I cant build this system perfect, if i do it , it will be faulty in its base concept. The trick is to have imperfection and understand it.

There are many things i discovered about what i wanted to do with this, the more i discover the more far away i get from puting it in practice