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[quote name='stormrunner' post='32240' date='May 25 2009, 03:13 PM']now that looks interesting[/quote]

A blueprint of some kind. My mind needs to expand to understand. Will wait till the unrevealing before I jump to conclusions or jump off Storms Coast. Whatever comes first. :(

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*tilts head to the left*

the ''split or die'' note on the first image looks fun
then there's the pyramid....
also reminds me of chemistry, particle physics really...but then looking again, not sure why...
also a connection between principles as well....

can anyone read whats written above ''Dilema'' on the second image?
this one definitely makes me think of particles
Ballence = 8 :)
Transposition, combining mp3 and mp5 players? O.o.

i cant read some of the writing :(

i'd say something big realted to principles :P

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it remind me of some basic bio, mostly cell division and genetics

it seems to be something about principles changing mps which could be amusing or terrifying didpending on how you look at it. of couse I could be wrong

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[center]it definitely reminds me of atoms, the mp7 bit reminds me of bonding, perhaps depicting some sort of dehydration synthesis, or perhaps something similar to how oxygen takes electrons (since there is the O thing beside it also)... the positive and negative maybe refering to ionic charge... looks like a bit of covalent bonding in the "split // count" depiction... the entropy, syntropy, and ballance examples are fairly straight-forward.

If you look at the way they group it seems they prefer 8 (The first valence has a capicity of 2, but every valence thereafter has a capacity of 8 )

in the one picture it depicts the negative and the positive splitting which makes sense, if a positive and a negative combine, then it nuetralizes itself.

im not sure how the charge plays into effect, but it seems as if a number is repeating predictably (im just gonna go with the example of the fraction 2/3 which is .6666...) are negative

and those that are positive are complex and non-repeating. i would assume something like pi would work here.

as for the 2x and 0 that is also easily explainable through the example of an ion. when and ion gains an electron it usually takes it from a more susceptible atom, and therefore one had to be robbed, and the other benefited, creating an electrical rift, in dramatic sounding words....

the other picture has something to the effect of (+) live : (-) die . What came to mind here is something like fractals where it continually splits off in similar patterns...

the picture above the pyramid looks as though it depicts entropy because as we know that entropy states that things prefer a chaotic state, meaning that the binds they have will eventually deteriorate.

the bottom also appears to represent fractals, and perhaps also a "cell division"...not 100% on that

also not 100 % on the cell with the A, B, C, D, E, F although there could easily be a code with the way they "combine" (addition), shown just right of it...

i could continue to critique the rest but i think i've done enough of an analysis as it is... i hope this is helpful ^_^ ...props to the Crimson Lord!


Edited by cryxus
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hmm, that makes a lot of sense and makes me wonder if I have a old bio test book laying around somewhere, oh and while I was talking to mcvitie's shadow we realize the "device"(for lack of a better word) under the pyramid on the first page is a lot like the gazebo of chaos if you were to look at it from above

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Warning! Bio laden Post


There is a note that says "genes" and the image directly beneath it is reminiscent of a single helix, or what would be one side of a double helix DNA molecule.

I'm thinking that Mur is substituting the classic bases (Guanine, Adenine, Cytosine, and Thymine) for a number of the principles. Also the pyramid in the first picture could possibly be a pedigree (a map of family genes), and the word cell is in a box, which further strengthens the argument that the splitting is possibly meiosis.

As for the split or die, during meiosis and mitosis (but mostly meiosis) if the two homologous pairs of chromosomes do not split correctly, that is two go to one side (which is shown. One side says x2 the other shows a zero) then the cell will self-destruct and not proceed.

More bio things, on the second image there is are two circles connected with a note in the middle that say split. This reminds me of paired nucleotides (such as AG or CT), and what could possibly be happening is that certain Principles will pair off in each person to form these kinds of base pairs.

Basically I think this is a realization of the idea that each player has DNA, but also that it might be possible to combine two players (sexually....? or perhaps asexually...?). Not exactly sure on the details, but I definitely suspect Mur has shown us DNA using Principles rather than nucleotides.

Does this make any sense to anybody?


Edited by awiiya
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it makes sense to me... in fact a whole array of things went off in my mind, but i instantly thought what you were thinking when i saw that he was combining mp levels in his diagrams... i definitely see a lot of biology, chemistry, and mathematical (fractionals mostly) type information in there, it kinda holds true on many layers... definitely interesting, i must say... ^_^

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This reminds me a lot of the diagrams I made when I was a little kid. Sloppy handwriting, symbols and acronyms that i invented and have since forgotten. If I'd look at those now, I could make a hundred different guesses at what each one was supposed to be: a perpetuum mobile, notes about that broken clock i dissected, designs for a rocket? I doubt one of them would've worked if build according to those designs, but MD isn't exactly real life and Manu isn't a little kid.

(ever since that thermodynamics course, I stopped trying to make perpetuum mobiiles.. although i still think it'd be cool to break the laws of physics like that.)

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This is just typical mur really, it looks familiar, but when examined up close, the basic fundamentals of it, while familiar in a sense, are positioned so, into new settings and relationships, that at one point, you feel like you had a slurpee to much..

^_^, doesn't mean I don't like it, lol :D

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  • Root Admin

i have a question , maybe someone can help..

how could be the ballance principle be applied on a bunch of living cells?

think the cells react base on the principles, each such cell has its own internal principles influenced by what is happening to them, so what could happen to the cells in relation to eachother or with their internal set of principles to indicate the presence of balance principle?


p.s no its not biology, its md :D

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well one obvious one is through contractions, etc. which is set up by electrical charges along the inside and outside of the cell. When a certain charge is achieved, or some other condition met (electrical, or chemical stimulus) it will cause the stored energy to discharge, which causes contractions in the cell. this is done by setting up chemical transfers along cell walls which create an electrical imbalance between the inside and outside of the cell.

Another way that a cell maintains balance is through metabolism, and in a way this is illustrated in the scientific laws which state that neither matter, or energy, can be created or destroyed, only converted. They put off heat, and energy, as well as matter comparitive to what they used/ are comprised of...

of course the metabalism works on both a small, and larger scale. Also know that often times the matter ~is~ in fact converted, whether it be for chemical pruposes, etc. in the end there is the same amount of matter.

Edited by cryxus
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A more biological version of what Cryxus was talking about, homeostasis, which is the maintenance of a certain pH, temperature, and concentration of molecules (sodium, potassium, calcium, etc.) for the maximum efficiency in the enzymic activities.

That's biology.

Taking that as kind of a frame, here is maybe an MD version of it.

Each cell is a mixture of certain amounts of principles, let's say a minimum of 1, and a maximum of 7 or 8. Now how the balance principle can work into this is pretty simple: certain principles go better together than other principles, and so like molecules that want to fill their electron levels at 8 (yay, simple chemistry), cells want to maintain a ballance of principles.

For instance, transposition is kind of a neutral principle, but darkness and light seem to be more at odds with the other. So if a "cell" was say... transposition-darkness-syntropy and it reacted with a "cell" of syntropy-cyclicity-light the product couldn't have a repeat of the syntropy, and the darkness and light don't want to be together naturally, so the result would be two new cells. One of which (just theorizing) could be syntropy-cyclicty-light and the other syntropy-darkness-transposition.

For most reactions the balance would be kept just by the innate randomness of the reaction. Like in biology, it would be a 50-50 toss up which way the principles will switch, and so overall the principles will maintain their relative balance.

We run into some problems when we try to react different numbers of principles per cell. What happens when you mix a 3 principle cell with a 5 principle cell? Would a different 5 and 3 be formed? My inclination is that in this case the 5 will want to react down, to be a 4, and the 3 will want to react up, and so there will be two 4 principle cells produced.

How then do you get increasing amounts of principles? Simply put, the balance principle won't allow it acting on itself. Syntropy is instead needed to produce the desired affect of, say, combining two 2 principle cells and getting one 4 principle cell. Of course, there are limits. You can't react an 8 principle with another 8 principle, because the cell is too unstable.

Where does the energy for a synthesis reaction come from? I'm not sure, but my inclination is that it would come from the degradation of another cell. So, the only way to get a 8 principle cell from two 4 principle cells would be to degrade say five 2 principle cells to ten 1 principle cells. That way the balance will be maintained.

Goodness, we can't have 8 principles coming out of nothing!

Sorry if that was unnecessarily complex. Comments?


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That was my thought when it came to that Atom/cell/electronlike thingie and the splitting into + and - on the first picture, I am unsure why exactly the additive is unpredictable, perhaps because it is a real sharing, unlike the other.

The split or die seems to have been explained properly already, and for the pyramid I have no idea. The dilemme I see at the bottom seems to represent "Order" and "chaos". While each has it#s merits, a totally onesided one would just prove fatal.

To the second picture:
Somehow it looks like a picture depicting an electron, and yet also being a cell..hard to describe. that middle cakelike division picture seems to represent two ways the cells stick together I think, either in a shared circle, or in different shells around the circle.

That with the MP3+MP5 looks like electrons taking them, as already pointed out, but why does an mp7 exist while one has none left? simply because the same sort of principles won't stack. So 5 principles + 3 (where 2 are new)= 7 + 0 if the balance is tipped.

The lower part describes the principles a bit, and the dilemma seems to be the same like back then again, synthropy vs enthropy..not exactly fitting, or rather oder vs chaos.

To Cryx: As for fractals, I thought they use imaginary numbers, how do you see any in there? o.o

To Mur: I can't give a clear answer, that's why I only say i think that without balance the cell would go to the extreme, and when that happens the extremes would sooner or later collide...thus we need balance in a cell, or else it cannot exist in long terms.

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If DNA consists of principles, then so could enzymes/hormones.

In biology cells with the same DNA specialize into different functions: muscles, braincells, skin cells etc. If I remember correctly, cells acquire their specialization because certain parts of the DNA can be activated or inhibited by the presence of certain enzymes. Once activated, a cell normally starts producing the enzyme responsible for the activation until a certain threshold is met, thus preserving the specialization without wasting energy on limitless production of a single enzyme. This preservation is part of the balance inside a cell.

Hormones are also produced by cells and then travel through the blood and enter other cells, affecting what those cells produce. A large concentration of one hormone usually inhibits further production of that hormone, thus balancing the concentration.

Unlike biology, in MD a player's principle knowledge and stats do change over time. Their 'principle DNA' is not fixed. How would I incorporate 'principle hormones'? Based on the 'principle DNA' every player would produce an amount of hormones, which they transmit to other players and then change their 'principle DNA' and thus which 'principle hormones' they produce. Instead of a bloodstream, the medium would be speech, in essence a memetic infection. This also allows for places associated with a certain principle (or combination thereof) to 'infect' players.

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