Banning Of Player Blood Prince

[Chewett]

Blood Princ has been banned for repeated violations in the Dojo at Marind Bell Park. Attacks were made on Staff Members, as well as other Mp5's of all types (Alliances, Guilds, Regular players). Despite Dojo Warnings sent to his Private Message as well as brandings made to his Public Log, attacks were continued to be made.

lets see what people think.

[Burns]

me thinks that he hasn't cheated, used bugs or exploits, abused alts, or broken any other rule of the game...

three thumbs down for banning Blood Prince from my side...

[Prince Marvolo]

The vote says everything xD
He really should be unbanned

[Lifeline]

he is a mp5! why are mp5s still using the dojo anyway. if u managed to get around 5mil xp to get to mp5 u clearly dont need special protection anymore because u are too weak. i fully understand that the dojo is really nice for mp3s and mp4s but come on mp5s really dont need it.
and a ban for such a violation is way over the top

[Grido]

The Dojo has always been described as a community-run project, the moment they start getting abilities outside of what an everyday player has, it becomes something else.

Also, if a single player opposes the idea, then at least part of the community does not agree with the Dojo, and so it isn't a Community Project because the community, at least in part, opposes it.

[Shadowseeker]

If this means ban as in prison, then I'm unsure what to say. Well, for the sake of improving the in my opinion almost non-existent effectivity of the dojo, yes.

If this means total ban, absolutely NOT.

As to the dojo..before it even got approved of officially, I told Calyx something: Endurance is what will be needed if you wish to walk the path of no harm to others.

(Not these words, but same sense)

That opinion was there and still will be there. And still is here. The dojo can brand people, can tell them to stop, but they shouldn't have the right to take any measures, even if it includes being farmed, if you follow the entire idea of it.

But since so many people cry for help and that doesn't get ignored, well, dreams exist, prison is alike to that, then yes. But it shows the flaw of the dojo not being able to sustain itself without punishment which immediately removes the attacker, which is really sad in my opinion.

[Liberty4life]

unban him!!!

and yea mp5s dont need dojo, same think with ally members

[Grido]

As a note, the ban spell is the same as prison, they're one and the same.

players also get "(Jail)" in front of their name when they get banned, when i do it anyway.

My assumption is that a permanent Jail sentence was intended

[phantasm]

In what context was he banned? Was his player banned from game?

I think perhaps a non-attack spell effective in the dojo only would be fine. inprisonment or a hefty dream penalty is fine. The dojo is a fine place. MP5's as many have stated have less of a requirement for it then other MPs. Does that mean that the rules should be overlooked simply because of an MP level? Absolutly not. I believe it is more an ethics issue than anything. If you are evil character type wouldn't you violate the dojo just to be evil? If you are a good character type wouldn't you want to protect the dojo?

Having a character banned for it is ludacris. However I do feel that appropriate, well trained, and well noted staff should have the ability to cease others from attacking if repeat offenders. Besides that I think the Dojo is more for rp then it is a place of "safety" It helps everyone define their character more simply by choosing wether or not to obey the rules of the dojo.

[Shadowseeker]

Total ban into prison...is pretty much the same as a total ban from MD, or close to it. If that is permanent, hell no.

[pamplemousse]

Making an example of someone, as it was said in the other post, and banning them for violating the dojo rules is overkill. The dojo rules are violated frequently much to the chagrin of the Staff.

Is this decision permanant or will our votes and responses overturn the ruling?

[Grido]

i think the ruling can be overturned if enough people vote for it

other people have the unban spell if needs be, and if Dojo staff dont do it themselves

Edited July 27, 2009 by Grido

[Nex]

[b]if[/b] we want the dojo staff to have powers to ban someone [i]from the dojo[/i], it should be exactly that: a ban from using the dojo. like casting a semipermanent dojo-only attack-lock.

while i would agree on temporal banishment into dreams if someone systematicly harasses mp3/4 dojo users, permanent prison is disproportional, especially for mp5.

[Metal Bunny]

I object to this monstrosity out of a big fat reason.
How do you come close to roleplaying a villain otherwise?
Sure there are other ways, but if it fits the role and it makes you hated, then by all means. Let it be.
Ban and especially permanent bans should only be for things that threaten everything or seriously cross the rules of the realm. Such as theft of any kind, spamming, continues advertising, exploiting bugs, hacking, etc etc.

So, hell no.

[Windy]

Blood Prince was a habitual violator and should have been dealt with a long time ago. Anyone who continues to break the rules deserves the same.

I think everyone forgets that Mur sanctioned the dojo's to begin with. I believe that if he thought the ban was extreme, he would not have given the dojo staff the ability to do so.

As far as playing the villian....violating the dojo rules has nothing to do with that role play. Dojos are not intended to extend the role playing process. It is intended for people to learn combat stategies with their creatures.

But I do believe that banning the player from the game is extreme, nonetheless. He should have been sent to the Prison that Mur and his staff worked so hard to create and then labled a criminal as Fenrir was.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Leucretia

[Guest]

I respect the DOJO and its intentions, but, as Grido pointed out, this highlights a major flaw in it. It is meant to be a community project, yet it is not supported by 100% of MD players for various reasons. So what happens if an MP5 player attacks there to train as he would anywhere else and annoys a very small percentage of the community? He is removed from the whole community entirely? NO.. this is wrong. He broke NO game rules... this is disgraceful.

[Jester]

[quote name='Leucretia' date='27 July 2009 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1248736649' post='38071']

But I do believe that banning the player from the game is extreme, nonetheless. He should have been sent to the Prison that Mur and his staff worked so hard to create and then labled a criminal as Fenrir was.
[/quote]

Yes, I see the similarities. Stealing someones time and effort in the form of their own creation, original artwork, then profiting from it, is the same as attacking someone in a Dojo, which a lot of players think is a dumb idea, and which does the defender no damage at all. (pure, uncut sarcasm)

Edited July 28, 2009 by Jester

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

[quote name='Metal Bunny' date='27 July 2009 - 08:39 PM' timestamp='1248723580' post='38056']
I object to this monstrosity out of a big fat reason.
How do you come close to roleplaying a villain otherwise?
Sure there are other ways, but if it fits the role and it makes you hated, then by all means. Let it be.
Ban and especially permanent bans should only be for things that threaten everything or seriously cross the rules of the realm. Such as theft of any kind, spamming, continues advertising, exploiting bugs, hacking, etc etc.

So, hell no.
[/quote]


Totally agree.

[Grido]

[quote name='Leucretia' date='28 July 2009 - 12:17 AM' timestamp='1248736649' post='38071']But I do believe that banning the player from the game is extreme, nonetheless. He should have been sent to the Prison that Mur and his staff worked so hard to create and then labled a criminal as Fenrir was.[/quote][quote name='Grido' date='27 July 2009 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1248719387' post='38046']As a note, the ban spell is the same as prison, they're one and the same.[/quote]
Thought i'd re-iterate that as it was seemingly overlooked when you posted.


[quote name='(2009-04-25 02:57:00 - Alpha 8 )']
[b]Explanations about Dojo[/b]
"...is not forced by the system but by players. Dojo is a symbol that sanctuaries can be sustained without forcing them by the interface but by self discipline.....Dojo staff complains about dojo abusers will be ignored because existance of the dojo is based on their own efforts...."[/quote]Something has aparently changed since then if now the Dojo IS essentially forced by the system, self discipline doesn't matter as it aparently can't be sustained without banning and threats, and dojo abusers are banned now meaning essentially the complaints are listened about. right.

[Tzaroth747]

[quote name='Metal Bunny' date='27 July 2009 - 03:39 PM' timestamp='1248723580' post='38056']
I object to this monstrosity out of a big fat reason.
How do you come close to roleplaying a villain otherwise?
Sure there are other ways, but if it fits the role and it makes you hated, then by all means. Let it be.
Ban and especially permanent bans should only be for things that threaten everything or seriously cross the rules of the realm. Such as theft of any kind, spamming, continues advertising, exploiting bugs, hacking, etc etc.

So, hell no.
[/quote]

[quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' date='27 July 2009 - 08:16 PM' timestamp='1248740210' post='38079']
Totally agree.
[/quote]


What they said.

[Fenrir Greycloth]

Out of protest of this, I will now attack anyone I so choose in the Dojo. MP5s do no need it for any reason. Anyone that has had over 5 million experience do not need it. It is just an excuse to get people in trouble for people in MP5. I know how every creature works, I do not need to have a place to learn.

[Burns]

you'd wonder how little people know, Fenrir *laughs*

specially since the dojo started, you don't need to beat anything up, you just ask for an easy rit, or you tackle only people who are known to set trees...
i think if i created an mp3 now i could reach the mp5-cap without EVER setting a rit LOL

b2t:
i think provocating the dojo staff ain't the right thing to do, but i guess that the dojo staff needs means to deal with repeat offenders nonetheless, and as those are not inteded to be hardcoded, how about hiring a few mercenaries with a bunch of trees, if the dojo-people themself seem unable to get the job done?
i hope we all know how painful it is when some people think you deserve punishment, and from what i heard there are some LHO in the dojo-staff who have a movelock for their LHO-work... two weeks with neg vp is almost as bad as two weeks in prison for mp5 newcomers, and truth be told, the community can't hurt the veterans really if they decided to work against the dojo...

i'm sure you could turn it in some way to make useage of LHO-spells on dojo-violators morally right, as they are there for Live Help for players who need help, unlike the RPCs and Admin-spells, which are there to observe the greater rules of the game...

[redneck]

i think he should be unbanned i respect the dojo rules and follow them but i think he should be UNBANNED

[Akasha]

As i said in the other post, i do not agree with this stupidity of banning a user that does not agree with you, is an active player, done nothing against the rules of the GAME not DOJO; and about the 'i spoke with' it is an inactive RPC.

I still state that dojo is dead and without the spells nobody would respect your rules. Mp5 have nothing to do with dojo, if they search a sanctuary they have plenty.

And the Magic Duel Community , from the votes, you can see is not working together with your dojo, but against it, or maybe against the current, what have become a so named dojo

Also, you should lower your significance to what it really is and keep it that way, do not ask or pretend to be more important then you are not ! again, look at other training grounds that asked nothing and are respected, maybe from them you could make an example for yourself to follow.

[Muratus del Mur]

Dojo has the ban spell for quite a very long time. In all this time i am not aware of them abusing it. The ban was supposed to be a way to scare dojo offenders but with the mention that older players should be talked to _repeatedly_ and not banned. A new player that is told that "this is a dojo" and explained what that means, should respect that and only later when he will know enough about md will he be able to take its own decisions about it. A new player that goes against "the rules" from his first steps, will probably cause trouble anyway later. Respect is one very important thing, at least untill you fully understand the things you are into.

Old players, and mp5 are old regardless how slow or fast they got there, should not be judged based on that. The ban spell gets more and more restricted to use based on how popular/old a player is. Think for what reasons player have been banned in general.

The dojo has the ban spell and managed to use it without "using" it so to say, or at least not on players that should not be judged by the Dojo. My mistake is that the ban spell is the same for all and has no predefined time.

I have two possible solutions to this:

- change the ban spell of dojo into a long duration attack-lock spell, but then it might be irrelevant since the punishment will come anyway after the offender attacked a lot and he can continue later.
- change the ban spell to represent predefined time in jail with auto unban and give dojo a 1 day ban spell, but then people could take advantage of it to get "prison trips".

The powers of the Dojo must not be absolute, dojo, same as MR training grounds for example, is an organisation created by players and it should be hold alive by them. I had to give "powers" to people initiating such organisations because currently, untill the wishShop is complete, they have no other way of gaining those powers themselves.

The dojo is a great initiative, even if its almost defunct right now, i still think it can be much better. But on top of all, repeat, its a player made organization and that means other players can take action against or for it and things will change based on that reaction. It the duty of the Dojo to find diplomatic ways to sustain thei cause and i am sure there are plenty of ways to do that and avoid such scandals.

I will unban Blood Prince now, based on the voting, but next time on such high number of votes in favor, anyone with the unban spell can do it, since you have the spell to use it based on your own judgement.