Azrael Dark Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 To put this as kindly and and mannered as possible: Mur did say to come up with creative roles for this alliance/guild. Does it really matter that much that the name is Tainted Warriors, so their role is limited to that of "Warriors"? What's wrong with having some educated soldiers behind the lines? I'm not saying they're all going to be librarians and researchers, but a significant function of TW could (emphasis on could, conditional, not concrete) be gathering choice bits that the real Archivists don't feel like sharing with the world. Would it be too difficult to change the name of the guild too with enough support behind an idea for another function of the second Necrovion alliance besides "Tainted Warriors". The Knights Hospitaller name is a bit counter-intuitive too. Now, with that said, I could easily live without the concept of the Dark Archive and the TW being something else entirely. I understand that instituting a second archive would be quite a difficult concept to implement now. But I just think to make this guild all about fighting too will overlap way too much with the Sentinels. They've got to have some angle that makes them unique within not just the land but in the universe of the other alliances as well. I'm also not saying their existence should be completely devoid of fighting either, its just I feel general conquest and defense operations should belong to the Sentinels. I'm also not arguing why my vision of TW is right, like I said in a previous post, I'm very open to Nex's idea for TW. I'm also very happy that this topic is on the forums and is open to discussion for people to agree and disagree on concepts to evolve the role of the TW. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't restrict ourselves just because of a name. Finally, I'm sorry for this little rant and mean no disrespect to those who disagree: Your opinions are just as valuable too and may be the correct judgment. Great powers above know I'm not 100% right all the time. This is just my stance and felt that I should express it as clearly as possible. AZ Kyphis the Bard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryxus Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 It's not entirely a new concept that's been brought up when mentioning alliances, months ago (nearly a year) when I suggested a pirate alliance I suggested that they deal with hard to get information as well as a broad spectrum of other mediums, such as a little bit of war-mongering, but as a pirates it isn't counter-intuitive to try to try to gain such things as a means of getting the upper hand in dealings. What I imagine this alliance being, however, is a more of an advanced military force working with the shades/under the queen of Necrovian, basicly a first line of defense or offense while the sentinels deal with the information... just my ideas on it. Kyphis the Bard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nex Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 [quote]they are the last line of defense, if necessary the tainted warriors strike fast and merciless. they care little for politics, for the sentinels take care of this. [/quote] [quote name='cryxus' date='23 October 2009 - 03:45 AM' timestamp='1256262325' post='45518'] basicly a first line of defense or offense while the sentinels deal with the information... [/quote] not sure if there was a misunderstanding, just in case 'last line of defense' doesn't mean they are the last or least likely to join a battle, it means they are the last to stand once everyone else has fallen, basicly referring to the elite corps concept. but contrasting with cryx, i wouldn't think they are the first in every conflict either (in a conflict of political nature, if the shades see no reason to act for lack of real threat/benefit, the tainted warriors might remain silent too, waiting for the most appropriate time to strike). anyway, if those ideas are appealing interpret them as you deem adequate Kyphis the Bard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Zl-eye-f)-nea Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 A warrior does not just mean fisticuffs. So if its the name you are hung up on:- A warrior is someone who has experience or is in the midst or war, or it is someone who shows courage and vigor in the face of whatever they try to achieve. Add to that that they arn't the necrovion warriors or the shade warriors but the tainted warriors. Tainted meaning corrupted, infected, contaminated. So you could easily argue that they are a corrupt group of researchers who defile the archivists to wipe out all necriovion facts from the public eye...or...that they are a group of fighters that stand are the last or first line of defence...or...that they once were warriors but now are ridden with some kind of infection that means they still have that courageous spirit but are incapable of physical violence...or...a number of other interpretations. Of course what the queen chooses as her interpretation...well thats a whole other matter. Z Watcher, Kyphis the Bard and Jubaris 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryxus Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 The way most it has been presented only a few times was there any mention of a true warrior aspect, most of it has been this archives stuff... now im not saying warriors can't also research, etc. i mean hell look at the Templar Knights and how they reigned in knowledge, but the way people have been presenting it was as a group or researchers, in my opinion, and actually put little thought into the warrior aspect of it. Besides aren't the Sentinels already dealing with Necrovion knowledge? why have 2 alliances dedicated to that? why not trying to put the chips into something that isnt already being covered, again not saying they shouldnt be trying to gain knowledge just that it seems counter-intuitive that that is everyone's point of contention in this matter. Kyphis the Bard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormrunner Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) I feel the need to explain more what I think the tainted warriors as fighters- they would be the first in last out type but not raw attack/defense that is common but ones who fight by trying to find counter rituals and using them as far as the tainted part goes, I like a more philosophical way of thinking, for those outside necrovion they would be tainted by the shades way of thinking. but because they spend a lot of time outside necrovion they also have some of that way of thinking. so philosophical speak they can be thought of as being infected no matter who you are as far as knowledge goes a warrior should learn anything that could help him fight, even if it's not with steel Edited October 23, 2009 by stormrunner Pipstickz and Granos 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Dark Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 First thing: fisticuffs, lol Second thing: I think we all pretty much agree the are of interest about this alliance is the tainted part (once again, I think). So my basic question to everyone interested is how so tainted? Does the TW take an science path with archane magic, curses, forbidden techniques (Kind of like a twisted GG technology view) or do they take a more primal path towards "being one with the shades" and cultist behaviors (though, I think either way the TW will be involved with shades, so maybe I'm not expressing this the way I'm thinking of) Opinions. I'm sure you have them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Udgard Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 embrace liquid dust to their body.. Kyphis the Bard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 What about Black water? Isn't that what the Shades are made of? Kyphis the Bard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaikat Maut Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 If it would please the Queen, I will lead this alliance, though I am certain she could find one more experienced and worthy than myself. In either case, here are my humble opinions on the matter: Everyone knows that Necrovion is no stranger to war. Its election was preceded by it, and was also marred by political dissent as Jester and others broke from the land. During this time, Jester and Pample had also vowed vengeance upon the throne, and thus the reign of Peace was threatened before it even began. In addition, I have reason to believe that Peace would see the Sentinels resume responsibilities that would have them less involved during times of conflict. For these and other reasons, I posit that the Tainted Warriors should operate as their name implies. They should be a dedicated and elite core of militaristic combatants who unerringly serve and protect the Shades, Peace, and all the lands of Necrovion. I have several thoughts as to how they have become “tainted”. Some deal with the various essence of Shades (Liquid Dust, Black Water, etc.) I’m less interested with the means and more so with the end goal, which I feel should be a single minded dedication to the defense of Necrovion and the inhabitants therein. I had considered that, regardless of the decided process, initiates should be tied to or invested in Necrovion through role play and/or a series of tests and rituals. To this end, one thought is to have the TW actually become undead. This would obviously achieve the single-mindedness I mention above (in addition to being completely badass). It could theoretically be achieved one of several ways including having initiates drink a poison that has been infused with Black Water/Liquid Dust/Deathmarrow or a portion of flesh from the corpse of Peace. It would require a role play commitment from all involved which may be seen as a deterrent. Barring this, or perhaps in addition to it, I would like to see the members be lead through a series of trainings and rituals in order to promote an investment to and knowledge of Necrovion. It could be composed of both tactical or military trainings as well as a sort of citizenship test which would be followed by a ritualistic rite of passage. Ranking could be as follows: General - 1 Leader Officer – 2 or 3 Veteran Elite Ideally I would have one officer for each pertinent MP level (5 and 4 at the least). These individuals would be responsible for training and organizing members within their MP range in order to form a tight chain of command and foster an efficient training atmosphere. Officers would relay status to the general who would make promotions or inductions as necessary. A 5th rank of initiate/recruit/trainee could be assumed as potential members go through the series of tests and rituals covered previously. Questions, comments, concerns? Kyphis the Bard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Dark Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 It seems in general there are some ideas that the TW would replace the Sentinels as the military force of Necrovion while the Sentinels took on some other role. However, I don't really see why would this be the case though because there is really no reason to replace them. Also, maybe the emphasis on the "elite" should be put aside for a little while at least. Of course, I would love to see the TW as an elite group, but doing so at the cost of taking away from the Sentinels wouldn't be worth it or fair. As far as tainted goes, I agree with Mala that the TW really shouldn't care or concern themselves with the ends justifying the means. In the end though, I think the source of the tainted goes into some secret/cursed resource stored away in Necro that can be either known or unknown to other lands. If it was known, it would generally be considered "tainted" to others. As far as being undead / zombification though, that might be limiting to players who wish to join TW in terms of Role play. The method you described (special poison) might also stray into a concept that infringes on the role play of other characters (ex: Granos is the way he is now because of the waters in the fountain of dark vibrations). Unless the alliance / guild becomes centered around a specific character's role ( ex: Savelite's Church ) I would like to stay away from being too similar to already existing roles of players not directly involved with the alliance at this time. Depending on the initial size of the TW, I wouldn't like to start setting up a command structure yet. If the TW is small to start with, I would like to experiment with having the TW as a special council or order with a captain or general leader of the order but all members are more are less equal agents to the same cause. Again, just because I have criticized any points presented does not mean I disapprove or reject any ideas. I merely seek to add and revise any ideas to optimize the effectiveness of a new alliance for Necrovion both in combat gameplay and general roleplay. AZ Kyphis the Bard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) I agree with Azrael, the Tainted Warriors should live up to its name by being the warriors/combatants of the land of Necrovion, I'd prefer to call it Death Knights . Loyalty within the dark land is essential, progress will be seen when it is achieved. It should not replace the Sentinels for whatever reason and not just because the name of the TW implies it, and the two alliances could share the same visions and deeds, passion and dedication, and strength and brutality, do not do an unnecessary actions just because of the name. Rituals could be held upon joining the TW and some tests of morality, loyalty, dedication, etc., I believe that is essential for the TW to progress, RP-wise and word-wise, like Knighting of the Tainted and Dark Baptismal/Blood Baptismal inside the Deathmarrow. The archives can be done, but the question is, is it really necessary for the fate of whole Necrovion? It is a very good idea, but there is already an archive for historic documents of all lands, I don't think it is necessary at all. Since we are talking about the current thing implemented in an alliace, my idea for the ranking is: Commander Assailants Because there are just two kinds of people in an alliance, a leader and a follower/student/warrior etc. But since we all can role play, who knows, it really is dependant on the loyalty points, so if the ranking goes like General - Officer - Secretary - Warriors, and let's say the officer lost a lot of loyalty points and made its way down to the warrior ranking, it will look rather odd and make some confusions. Just my humble opinion. Edited October 28, 2009 by Chad Kyphis the Bard and Lazarus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormrunner Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) as far as tainting by special poison I agree with the point azrael made. as far as the putting aside the elite thing I also agree and far as rituals go, remember this would be a warrior alliance, warrior's have rituals yes but the tend to be more minded to what makes sense then anything else. and any eating of the dead. warrior would do that to gain the strength of who ever their eating. if your trying to make t.w.into a group of (un)holy warriors. it makes a lot of sense. Edited October 28, 2009 by stormrunner Chad and Kyphis the Bard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Dark Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) So, it seems a destiny of military intervention is in the future of the TW, that much I admit, but I would not like to abandon the ideas that the TW are also scholars and researches who focus on improvement and evolution of military arts. These methods of course deal with anything by all means necessary with no thought as to the moral consequences of their actions. Unfortunately though, this does produce some "failed" results that have permanent effects..... Effectively, I'm falling back to my second idea presented in my first post on this thread about the TW being an Arcane Science Division. The alterations to this concept I would like to apply to this is that they are veteran warriors whose intense loyalty to the shades and the land (in accordance to Chad's ideas) have been recognized to have effectively made them "nobility" (or knights if the term nobles sounds too imposing: we can come up with a better term later) of the land and are allowed into the ranks of TW. There, they still fight, but their missions are a bit more challenging then those of the Sentinels(such as diplomacy/espionage, contests, and research into a creature/land ), who still deal in general military operations and basic / advanced military arts training. But the TW delve deeper into the secrets of the shades and conduct research into the Shade's being and scientific experimentation with certain materials exclusive to Necrovion. Any findings they discover concerning military will be shared with Sentinels as well, but any connections they maintain with the Shades and information gained remains their own..... The TW also have the ceremonial duty to act as a royal guard to the royalty of Necrovion as well as preparing for a final battle that will eventually occur... Obviously these conditions will make joining the TW difficult, but that is the point since it will require lots of participation. I know earlier I said that I would like to ease the emphasis on the "elite" standing, but with these new parameters, being elite is pretty much a requirement: both in the function of the group and to differentiate itself from the Sentinels. That is not saying the TW will only recruit the best of the best. It is only saying that only the truly loyal will become a TW. The TW will also still work very closely with its sister alliance the Sentinels in defense of Necrovion. EDIT: This is just an outline, I wrote this real fast so I might of left out some details which include ideas from everyone else who has posted that are really good! Edited October 30, 2009 by Azrael Dark Peace, Kyphis the Bard and Granos 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Two weeks have passed, decision is taken. The Tainted Warriors go to Azrael Dark, since he was the only one who I have seen that was willing to speak about it and plan things. Congratulations. Kyphis the Bard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaikat Maut Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Congratulations indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipstickz Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Congratulations Azzzzz ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 A perfect leader for the Tainted Warriors. Congratulations Azrael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Dark Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Thank you all for the congrats everyone. Now if you excuse me, I have some new found power to abuse just kidding, but seriously thanks again for the ideas and posting in this thread to develop the Tainted Warriors, I'll see you all in-game and hopefully I can get started working on this alliance over the weekend! AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dst Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Yep yep yep: perfect leader . Congratz Azrael! Kyphis the Bard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubaris Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 congratulations Azrael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Udgard Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Grats azrael! =) Grats azrael! =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Dark Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Thanks again everyone for the Congrats. Putting a note here as reminder to open a section in the forum for all Tainted Warrior related activities and topics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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