Wp For Days

[Chewett]

Wishpoints will be redialy availble, so then you will be able to get coins easily since you can make items that can be traded for coins, So the marketing system will fail since with all the new items they will become worthless and coins will have a lesser values as there are so many items around.

Wishpoints on alts will make the problems 10 times worse, Wishpoints 2 times a year will make it problematic

[Jubaris]

not exactly. Limited number of raw materials + people making items for themselves, not for selling them (most of the cases I'm sure)

[Sharazhad]

[quote name='Prince Lewas' date='04 December 2009 - 08:02 PM' timestamp='1259949744' post='49110']
1 WP per year - like a birthday present
[/quote]
[color="#2e8b57"][i]I quite agree with Prince Lewas, 1 wishpoint per 365 days as a bithday present. [/i][/color]

[Udgard]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='06 December 2009 - 06:01 PM' timestamp='1260097260' post='49289']
not exactly. Limited number of raw materials + people making items for themselves, not for selling them (most of the cases I'm sure)
[/quote]

There's a good chance that people will farm several alts, some to make items for themselves, and then some more to sell.. xD

[Chewett]

[quote name='Udgard' date='06 December 2009 - 01:23 PM' timestamp='1260105835' post='49295']
There's a good chance that people will farm several alts, some to make items for themselves, and then some more to sell.. xD
[/quote]

30 wishpoints on all accounts * 15 coins per item = 450 coins

This is not just profitable, its viable, and will utterly break the MD system.

[Jubaris]

30 items = at least 30 raw materials

not plausible

[Chewett]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='06 December 2009 - 01:53 PM' timestamp='1260107588' post='49297']
30 items = at least 30 raw materials

not plausible
[/quote]

not nesscarily, there are a lot of raw materials, it still is an easy way to get things, i could for example use the wishpoints for other more nefarious things if you know what i mean

[Fenrir Greycloth]

And the people who farm alts for wps are either stupid, or greedy. If someone suddenly has 420 silver, or a new person suddenly shows up and asks udgard for a custom item, will he make it for them? Without checking to see that it is an alt or not?

I really hope noone is that greedy for wps and items that they would abuse the system so badly. If they are caught doing so, there will be no second chance.

As i have constantly said, ban alts. (go ahead neg vote spam me) Alts are the BIGGEST source of cheating in the game. It FAR out weighs those who have honest alts.

Even if there isn't a 100% sure way o finding them. We still need to do something about it.

Back on topic; as far as abusing the wp system, what in it can they actually get that would be beneficial to their main? No one wants a carnival joker, and I am not sure there is anything else in it. As for item creation, I trust Udgard is more than capable of figuring ou who the alts are an who are not.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='06 December 2009 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1260116848' post='49304']
And the people who farm alts for wps are either stupid, or greedy.
[/quote]

Have you been in md? There are many like that, people just want to be the best, and will try and get it any way possible

Its like when people were scamming people to get 10 principles, when they would just be reset. And what about all the alt abuse of angien eggs?

The problem is, that people will find ways to abuse it, Anything todo with alts needs to be restricted, i agree with you fenrir, alts need major limitations on them, But where there are oppunitities to abuse, people will take it.

The bonuses that people can gain from alt abuses far outweight the possible punishment, Since there are rarely alt punishment if you look at the overall amount of alt abuses out there. This is something i think needs to be fixed

[Liberty4life]

ya say there wont be ppl abusing alts to get wps? yeah same thing ppl said about alts and angiens abuse for ve and in the end it really happened and it became massive

[I am Bored]

well since i didn't think of the possible abuse with items, i will say that there shouldn't be alts now...... unless you make it so alts can't make items....

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='I am Bored' date='07 December 2009 - 03:54 AM' timestamp='1260122054' post='49308']
well since i didn't think of the possible abuse with items, i will say that there shouldn't be alts now...... unless you make it so alts can't make items....
[/quote]
I think most crafter would be capable of spotting an alt

But there are two other solutions I can think of:

The first is to give crafters the ability to track where their items go. That will help them identify alts.

The other is to prevent people who share IP addresses from trading anything, be it items or creatures. I know that IP scramblers are easy to get, and I know that people can just use a third party to make the trade, so I don't think this is a good solution. But I do think it will make a small difference.

[Assira the Black]

I think something does need to be done to reduce abuse by alts. In my opinion alts are to be used to experience MD in a new way and to create new experiences for others. So the ones who do not abuse their alts may be limited because others are abusing the alts. I do not think that it would be a good thing if you made it where alts can not create items. I think it should be done correctly by methods that normal people use. I know the chances of everyone doing things correctly is slim but I do not think it would be fair to limit everyone's alts like that. Alts to me are separate characters and so they should have the same chances to do things as a main character should.

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='Assira the Black' date='07 December 2009 - 01:48 PM' timestamp='1260157724' post='49345']
I think something does need to be done to reduce abuse by alts. In my opinion alts are to be used to experience MD in a new way and to create new experiences for others. So the ones who do not abuse their alts may be limited because others are abusing the alts. I do not think that it would be a good thing if you made it where alts can not create items. I think it should be done correctly by methods that normal people use. I know the chances of everyone doing things correctly is slim but I do not think it would be fair to limit everyone's alts like that. Alts to me are separate characters and so they should have the same chances to do things as a main character should.
[/quote]
To clarify my previous statement, I would assume that crafters who recognised alts that were being abused would refuse to serve them, and the point of tracking the items is to help identify alts that are being used for abuse.

If I ever create an Alt account that I wish to play as another character, I would not want them limited in their capacities.

[Karak]

I think a reward is suitable but based on active days rather than anniversaries. As activity is more an indicator of commitment.

As for alts, perhaps if it were permissable that under a system of honour we could link our alts to our main account then elect which alt between them recieves the WP garnered by the main account.

This system, to be successful, would rely on others not abusing this linking to target alts or devine another's purpose for playing multiple identities, particularly those who convincingly play alts that have not had their common owner linked.

[Fenrir Greycloth]

And tose people will be caught and punished accordingly... hOpefully

[Chewett]

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='07 December 2009 - 11:43 PM' timestamp='1260229415' post='49410']
And tose people will be caught and punished accordingly... hOpefully
[/quote]

you mean like the age farmers? even respected people are selling lots of aged crits from their accounts, and no one cares. I dont see why it wont be the same, Mur doesnt have time to police it, and nobody cares.

Its annoying, but you come back to the position, how do you check and catch them

[Aeoshattr]

Assuming you get 4 WP / 2 yrs (that's the current result of the poll) just how many ppl are going to make alts and wait half a year for a result? i mean, if i want an item, i'd rather burn out my neurons for 2 weeks trying to solve a quest than wait 6 months for a WP...
anyway, i don't agree with all alts getting the WP. But i DO believe we should get WP based on age. i mean, at least for the effort of sticking around for a year or two..

[Liberty4life]

i dont agree with ya chew, everyone cares so they can rant whole system about being unfair, nobody wants to point out someone in fear that s/he wont do something against him/her, but if that abuser does something that is against interest of other person, that other person will suddenly jump out and start digging accusations of past misdeeds of abuser and publicly flame him, and then suddenly that one person gets respect of community (well part of it) for "unveiling" and "reporting" about "heavy" abuses (which are done by everyone else) and he also then is marked as some sort of "good doer" becoz of that

question is where was that "hero" before when abuse happened, if s/he knew about it why did s/he waited so long, oh... i forgot s/he put public black mark on that person just becoz that person did something that isnt in his/hers interest, so lets then flame him about his abuses regardless if both are "sinners"

thats where big fights start, ya think it wont happen with wps? all those votes FOR are becoz everyone is greedy, once ppl get those free wps, it will be kewl, then everyone will start abusing alts for wps, and then jealousy will come up, and conflict of interests will come up, insults, and other crap, so it will look like always in similar situations which i described earlier in this post, this already happened with tolerated level of abusing bugs and tolerance of having alts, so it will happen again with wps

phase 1 overall greed
phase 2 abuse
phase 3 complains about system and individual conflicts of interests

i will conclude this with question: is it possible to satisfy greed of players and prevent abuses?

[Faraun]

I don't want to be rude but can i throw in an argument that few seem to care for. New players ane beggineers, it seems theres like NO way to get a wp. Making it easier or giving alternate ways to get one, at least will make them accessible to all and not a strict elite.

[Jubaris]

actually liberty is quite right, and even if he isn't, its his opinion dunno why people are neg-reping him.

but, from my side, I'm in that greedy phase, and I still want those god-damn WPs! I'll complain later, when I'm satisfied with my gains! short-term gains ftw!

joke on the side, WPs should be awarded for a number of activity days, why not, just for people to taste the flavor at least, in this way with WPs used, its easy to target alts who are violating "dont help your main" rule.
Just see who used its WPs for items, check history of the transactions between two suspected accounts... I'm sure you can see which WPs were used for what, and with not that high amount of WPs in game, it shouldn't be too difficult and frustrating to do it... And it could be used as bate to ban several alts already used for abuse. So I agree with Lib about the behavior of people, but it can be prevented

[Sparrhawk]

I do see how there may be a problem with alts but what about those people who legitimately play an alt as another character. One example I can think of is Tarquinus and Keith. They are played as seperate characters. What would be wrong with Keith having an item crafted for his own character like a note book or something. Limiting the alternate character which is played in this way without thought for abuse would be quite frustrating to those people who play them and can't get the advantages there other character can. I do realise that there could be abuse with alts, some people are greedy but just because we think that people could abuse it, should we let that ruin it for those that play legitimately?

Edited December 8, 2009 by Sparrhawk

[Orlando Gardiner]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='04 December 2009 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1259964885' post='49155']
placing a wp at the start of the time frame is important. A new player will not be impressed by the idea that he will get somehting after ONE YEAR of playing, ...they are not sure if they will stay one day at first.

I am also talking about WP directly not WP codes, so transfers are not an issue.
I hope that in this way people will want more, and not consider wp as unreachable anyway. There are many that have none and stoped hoping for one.

Alt checks , if implemented, will be very strict. Only one of the tests for example could be extremely strict, the ip check. If you are in a school or campus, you will never be able to get this reward if someone else got it first. Also the full range of alt checking is quite paranoid, so you will probably not be able to get the reward in many cases when the system things you are in any way related to the other account.

Its big question, should alts be developed as separate characters (so yes get the wp) or should they be considered alts as they are? .. If there were not all these people that have alts to cheat or swarms of alts, this situation would be totaly different.

AGE, in md, is the strongest sign of loyalty towards MD. You could be the worst character around, if you have a lot of age and you are still around and not baned, it means you are loyal to MD. You might not be loyal to its people, thats an other thing, but you are here and that counts. At least thats how i always felt about active days.
[/quote]


There should be an easy solution for this. Make it able for alts, but raise the active days needed for wishpoints. like 4 a year for both, but start after the second year with alts. this way you really have to play the alt to get it. The first year to show you really mean it to have another account with active days, after that. just tread it as every other main.

or doesen't this make any sense?

thereby, perhaps les than 4, or are there going to be more wishes? Because you just have to play a silly 10 years to achive all wishpoint rewards....

[dst]

And how do you know which is an alt and which is the main?

[Nex]

[b]regarding alts/mains:[/b]
an obvious problem: how do you define alt and main? is the first char always the main? what if you mainly play your second or third, will you lose out on various possibilities because the first registered account would have had the chance to do this and that?

an example:
at least 3 of my chars could have been considered 'mains'. the first was mainly RP, the second, was originally used to test storymode and the finer points of battle mechanics and later became my 'main' for quite some time, then 'alt'-ish again when i started playing V.


[b]regarding alt abuse:[/b]
an easy if inelegant solution would be to limit age based WPs to wishes that can only really benefit the activator. no use to farm alts for WPs when your 'main' can't benefit from it. you could use them for RP purposes or to test certain options/wishes, which is one of the things alts [b]can[/b] be used for.