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Lol; righteousness and civility mean nothing before they who behold violence and bigotry as the ultimate means to their ends.
I quoted myself, stop googling. ¬_¬

Anyway, you are correct, of course.
First of all, let it be obvious that this wasn't cheating.
Not at all.
If it was cheating, then mur would have punished you.
The ones who do it for the first time, or find some gambit or tactic, with emphasis on tactic, are allowed to do it, until mur makes up a new rule, or places a new restriction in the game.
He did; LR wasn't cheating.

The ones who, from this point on, continue to state that they did will be severely rp-slapped on the back of their head.
Nah, not really, else I would be contradicting my own first statement, huh?

Anyway, secondly; You have to understand Firs, that this is the way people are.
Just look at reality tv, narcissistic, loud mouthed, ugly bunch of people who will stop at nothing, not even their own self-esteem, to get what they want.
You're king.
You're gonna have to learn how to deal with the less-then-wanted part of the populace.
In this case, it's just what you did; make a statement and condemn their petty bigotry. A bit like the UN really.
If the annoyance continues, call on your allies and place restrictions, with civility, upon the guilty ones. Like... I dunno, something, cuz a trade embargo won't really work here :P.. or out there, but that's another matter.

Then again, you could just be a king and ignore the non-lorerootians.
Or be a king and totally go on a crusade or something.
Or be a king and do like; 'Orf 'ith iz 'ead!'

I personally like the last one

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You are absolutly right, we should not blame him for it. If I can even remember well, than this is one of the most basic rules:

You are free to do anything in the game that is tehnicaly allowed. If you consider that you discovered some sort of exploit or a bug, report it to a moderator.

This stating, that he just did what was legal in the first place, that we want in to change, than we should not harrass him.

I am very sorry if you ever had the feeling I was one of the 'other side, as you name them, it was never my intention.

on the other side, why it is coming up now. is mostly because the few people who are realy bound to a land(mb, indeed, you guess right) feel left out of the Tc for a long time now, and now finally found usself telling it. Not directed to others, just as something we wish to change ..

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Just to be clear. This is not about blame or labelling people. I have deliberately not named anyone (except Rhaegar, for reasons which should be clear). I simply want people to wake up and smell the roses so to speak. I just want people to realise that talking and discussing things is an option. Once you start targetting a person or persons for something then you do just that. You label them. If someone does something that is wrong, there is no need to harrass or pursue them really. I don't understand why a case for something cannot be made without resorting to going after anyone.

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The [u]tactic[/u] whilst disliked by many is not against the rules, i should think due to it being the popular talking point of the moment, that Mur knows about it, so if it wasnt allowed he would say so.

What ~is~ against the rules is alt abuse. And clearly nobody is "aware" of what alt abuse is, because i always catch people doing it and they always act innocent and say "Oh, i didnt realise that it was alt abuse". I think twice this TC. [quote]I have still yet to hear from anyone what exactly is an acceptable or not acceptable use of an alt in the TC.[/quote]
If alts interact with each other in other ways than talking in chat, then it can be considered alt abuse.
If alts gather information for the main that the main would not otherwise have known, that is alt abuse.
If you use an alt to scout the area ahead of where you are to look out for possible people that might attack you, that would be alt abuse.
If you attack someone with your alt to discover a persons defence so that you know what to attack with with your main, that is alt abuse.
If you use your alt to in someway benefit your main account, that is alt abuse.
If you use your alt(s) so that other people can kill them off, then this is alt abuse. (Added as a note to people who dont realise why; It falls to benifiting your main character via proxy due to upping your nations score.)

Those rules that ~can~ apply outside of Torch Contest, ~do~ apply outside of Torch Contest.
If you are unsure if something is alt abuse or not, ask BEFORE you do it.

Who was the Person/accounts sitting outside Ravenhold you were talking about?

Edited by Grido
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[quote name='Grido' date='20 January 2010 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1264009835' post='53125']
If alts gather information for the main that the main would not otherwise have known, that is alt abuse.
If you use an alt to scout the area ahead of where you are to look out for possible people that might attack you, that would be alt abuse.
I am guilty of these two things. I consider them more "borderline" than outright abuse, but I'll stop.

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As I said Grido, Im not interested in branding or getting any individual into trouble. What I am interested in is having people see what is not allowed and ceasing for future reference. Lets all see what is unacceptable and then speak of punishment if people continue to transgress in the future.

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  • 4 weeks later...

[quote name='cutler121' date='21 January 2010 - 05:14 AM' timestamp='1264014864' post='53131']
The only reason I am posting this is because I truly don't understand why MD seems to be heading more and more towards being all about punishment and trying to catch people doing bad things.

Surely Mur set the tone with the Festival of Pain, but is this really the direction we the people (I speak for everyone who thinks this is a sad direction for MD to go) want to support MD to head.

I know this is not what interests me at all in MD but I basically try to ignore all the c**p. There are so many positive and interesting things going on in MD. Even if this tone is mainly being set by veterans and people with longstanding dislikes of each other, you should realize that there might be a few new people around. Why would they stay if they can't respect the people who are here?

Not everyone in MD is as petty and small minded as these squabbles make it seem. It's just a shame I have to keep reminding myself of that.

So I am going to keep on doing my thing and try to ignore this sad direction MD seems to moving.

Not much Cheer here,

I have to agree, I really hate the direction this is going in.

Most of you know I have been playing for several hours almost everyday for the past year, and while I like to take my time I get things done.

When I joined, I loved this game. Everyday, there was something exciting happening and people were, if not nice, at least civil to each other.

But most of the last year I have seen instance after instance after instance of people abusing each other, fraud, bullying, and flagrant abuse. I have been reading my way through the forums all week, and almost HALF of the topics I have found have been little more than flame wars.

I see things like what Sheops has just done to Meru Chi; the attacks against dst as a person, not a player; the whole hoarding issue, even of TEST items; spammers; scammers; reputation bombers; the whole "adult behavior" thing; just about anything under the sun that anyone can do wrong, it happens.

The rule might be that if you can technically do it it is basically allowed, but you'd think people can apply some basic morals and common sense to that.

Even myself, I was appalled when a close friend was staying with me and using one of my old accounts, the way that people treated him he is NEVER coming back. He did things that made ME jealous, and because of the way he was treated he is gone forever. That sickens me.

When I made a topic to try and get the contribution some people had made to MD rewarded, I was getting people claiming it was "All about my own reputation". How did MD get to the point that everything is just trying to boost yourself and inflate yourself? Why do we have to not only assume the worst, but damn well try to prove it true?

This is not the MD that I joined.
This is not the MD I loved.
This is not the MD that I STILL spend hours telling my friends about.

I'll damn well admit it, I cried writing this. I've been able to deny what I have seen happening to MD until I started writing this, but now I can't.
I'm obsessive, I almost never give up.
But if MD keeps going the way it has been going, I may never even reach MP5. I may be gone before next Christmas.

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Though I am not ready to become a true citizen of loreroot I like to consider my self one. I have to completely agree with Firsanthalas at any rate this is discrimination. Although I do believe it is cheating and I think it has been referred to once or twice in a few posts.

However by any means I have found there is only one way to compete with people that use a flawed system to there advantage. To put things into perspective in the past and I mean like distant past such a biblical times (if you believe in that) there has been record of in wars that a rule was implied that you cant kill after dark. Continuing you cant even today attack a vehicle carrying injured soldiers that bare the red cross symbol.

Obviously people go against this and do it anyway. That's why these rules are lifted from the battle fields of countries that are not represented in the embessy. I don't want to employ that the torch competition is anything like this but put into perspective this is a war between the nations.

We are simply fighting back the way you fought us. Now here we are taking the blame because you guys didn't do your part this time. I mean really its about time somebody took the podium in the same style any of you did. Its simply our turn.

I would like to put an end to this right now but untill rules of the contest are changed that is not a fact that any of us can make a reality. Not by any means do I see this as an honest victory because quite frankly it isn't. Though if by any thoughts this is only a fair return of your favor.

That's all I have to say on this matter.

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The activity level in MD is low. People have very little to do beyond training in the GGG or SG. When people are bored [i]en masse[/i] and have nothing better to do, things can get ugly.

Bread and circuses keep the masses content. Our "bread" is a good economy, conditions for RP, and a generally stable system. The economy seems fine to me. Unbeatable rituals are a bad thing for the system, though the imbalance on the community as a whole is lessened by the health of RP, as far as I can tell. That leaves us with circuses.

My temporary (maybe permanent) solution is: giving temporary quest pages for free (with LHO approval; this is to prevent questless quest pages), for the duration of a quest only (maybe have a gray "Q" icon instead of gold?). The permanent page would still be unlocked as it currently is.

This would give people something to occupy themselves with, and would give a nice big boost to the growth of MD.

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It is just sad... how many of people is willing to throw a stone at other, how many around is just fishing for something bad to bring it out... That kind of behavior is destroying the community.
When I joined MD, that would be exactly 60 days ago (yes, a jungling in this world) I have seen a great game offering different sort of challenges to overcome and such, meet some realy nice people etc. It was "fun" in all regards.
But right now, all this bickering and ponting fingers around... to be honest, its annoying. I tend to wonder... do we, humans, realy need to destroy everything nice that we find? Do we realy need to always be seeking something, anything that is "bad"? I mean, look around... we have great looking virtual enviroment with loads of unique people behind interesting characters and so on and on.
Individual person is usualy smart... but does that realy help if as soon as one of the "rotten apples" starts to point finger around mayority of those individuals become just a bunch of sheeps following the example? I mean, arent you gals and guys tired of that same behavior irl, cant you realy not live without it and you must bring it with you over here? Think about it, just for few seconds, if you are smart, wise or whatever then those few seconds will be enaugh for you to not do it.
And for crying out load... stop thinking that it is all right when you do it (whatever you do) but it is definetly not all right if someone else does it. Shut your mouth if you did the very same thing before because you seriously do not have the right to point at others, your "innocence" in the matter is non-existant. If you want that thing (again, whatever it might be) to change and you did it previously, point your dirty finger at yourself first and only after that at others who actualy did what you did before. Get it?!
Anyhow... just my personal rant of a sort...

Now, as far what Loreroot did or didnt do, I wont say a thing because I know very little of it if anything. I will say tho, that I didnt heard of any instructions going around about how to do whatever happened, so thats it.

As for Prince Rhaelgar...[color="#808080"][i]/sarcasm on[/i][/color] well, congrats to those of you who picked him out for your crusade, you seemed to study history of crusades well and know how to pick your victim. [color="#808080"][i]/sarcasm off[/i][/color]

To sum it up... for crying out loud... "grow up"!

Edited by LadyDawn
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  • Root Admin

[quote name='LadyDawn' date='15 February 2010 - 04:44 AM' timestamp='1266209055' post='54496']
When I joined MD, that would be exactly 60 days ago (yes, a jungling in this world) I have seen a great game offering different sort of challenges to overcome and such, meet some realy nice people etc. It was "fun" in all regards.

This issue is much older than you mention. This issue has always been here, But perhaps we are just more open to fight about it now. There has always been abuse, cheating, scamming and exceedingly bad rudeness. I would say that if a player just played MD and didnt read the forums they could probably blissfully ignore most of the abuse.

I agree that today we have reached a pinnacle of what is happening. But with the fact that some people cant forget issues and move one
(ref [quote]As for Prince Rhaelgar.../sarcasm on well, congrats to those of you who picked him out for your crusade, you seemed to study history of crusades well and know how to pick your victim. /sarcasm off[/quote] one example in this very thread) then this community will fail. Becuase we are small we cannot hold grudges against people. We need to learn to accept what people have done and move on.

If this doesnt change, and change soon then Magicduel will fail. Less and Less people will come and more and more will leave. Before i recommended a lot of friends to play, Nowadays i have explicitly told them not to play again. This is not something one person can do now. It is something that everyone needs to think about and do something about in how they play.

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*smiles sad* please people this game is more about roleplay then fighting and if we keep the chat nice and respectfull

(even if you roleplay evil ore disrepectfull to one)
(i mean you can play disrespectfull to one whit out the bad words ore hurting someones feelings for real)

then there will be no problems.
And all would have fun in this game again.

so bring the joy back that we seemd to have lost :P

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Of course it is much older than 60 days, but I can not speak about the things that were going on before I even had a character in the game, I wasnt around at that time.
I doubt that a player just playing and not looking at the forum would be "saved from" seeing the bickering. You hear things even in game, if not in scene-chat then in messages. It might just take longer time to see it.
I agree on your "accept and move on" notion. We should all move on and just try to be better, I mean, isnt that what average person would like, become better than he/she is?
But sadly, even if everybody burry their hatchets, the stain shall remain, if nowhere else, then in the minds of those that were/are around at these times. Harm has been done, not to individuals involved but on the whole community.

[u][b]@ladytwin [/b][/u]:
The joy is still there, it just requires some searching. :D

[u][b]@community at large:[/b][/u]
Lets have some tollerance for each other and stick together, we are all humans at the end. I am preaty sure we can do it, if we put our minds to it.

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