Problems Setting Defense Rituals

[freelancer]

Hi there, I have a problem. Sometimes when I have set up a few defense rituals, only the most recent 3 or 4 rituals would get called in to defend. I am sure all the creature in my defense rituals have more than 301 vit and they are all at full health, and I’m aware that if Mur is playing with the code, something funny would happen to our defense rituals, but this is happening to me too often. Acutally almost every time when I have 8 or more valid def ritual set up, only 3 or 4 at the bottom most would work(one time none of them worked), after that if im attacked, 6 random creatures from my list would get called in to defend, even when there are still some valid defense rituals left. I don’t know what im doing wrong.

I have reset all my rituals a few times already but that did not help. Hope someone can help.

[adiomino]

er... i've never had this problem before. are you sure that after your rituals are broken that the top rituals still have creatures over 301 ve? Because it doesn't matter at the time of creating the ritual that the creatures you set have 301 ve. but if right when you are attacked (or attack) the creatures have less than 301 ve your rit will go random

sorry if this didn't help XD

[freelancer]

[quote name='adiomino' date='12 May 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1273723123' post='59734']
...are you sure that after your rituals are broken that the top rituals still have creatures over 301 ve?...
[/quote]

Yes im sure cuz i would heal up all my creatures before going idle overnight to get as many losses as possible, and each of my def rit only has a single creature.

[adiomino]

Well... Please check the logs that you get while being idle. Maybe they'll help clear things up

[Burns]

and you surely don't use some creatures with just 200/290 VE in defence? Or have one creature in two different defs and it's dead by the time?
Because it's either that or forgetting to check the def-box in 99,9999999% of all cases, with the rest being cases of when Mur deleted all rituals that one time

[freelancer]

Yes I do check my combat log, that’s how I came to know that my valid def rituals are not being used.

@Burns..all the creatures I used in my def rituals have 301 or more vit, and are either at full health or over 301 health at the time, and i only use each of my creature once.

And for future references.. all the info I provided in the original post is correct. Please don’t 2nd guess me. I know this is a weird problem that’s why im posting here for help.

Ok maybe I should give you guys examples of my def rituals…

I like to use my healers (tree and water guardian) to defend first and my grasans to defend last, and all my def rituals only have a single creature all at full health with more than 301vit, so the bottom of my def rituals there are the healers, grasans at the top, and other creatures like elemental in the middle.. that is how I always set my def rituals.

Now the weird thing happens when I come back from idling. Just yesterday I checked the combat log, the last single creature defense I could see was the tree defending by itself, and then should be the elemental but they never get called in to defend, neither did the grasans, the next def rituals all consist of 6 random creatures.

One more thing i sometimes have broken rituals in the middle somewhere, and maybe attack ritual between def rituals, but i dont think they would interfere each other, would they?

[Redd]

One possibility is that the crit in your def rit's VE is reduced to less than 301 without unbinding the rit. This commonly happens with remains.

Ex. You have a remains on def and was hit by lifesteal. This won't unbind your def since lifesteal will (usually) leave atleast 1 VE.

That would cause your def to auto assign for the next fights until your remains has regained the 301 ve requirement.. An indicator of this is for the active defense(the one which appears as not working) to have a loss count. Win count is also possible but not probable.

This could also be possible even if your active def has no win/loss count. That will need a longer explanation, though..

Edited May 13, 2010 by Redd

[Grido]

have you checked the won/loss counter on the rituals before deleting them?

[freelancer]

@Grido… no I didn’t check the ritual win/loss counter…I would do that next time.

@Redd… umm are you saying that if a def ritual becomes invalid but the game doesn’t kill that ritual, then all the def rituals before that one wouldn’t work?
Like if my tree in the def ritual is damaged to less than 301 vit, and I don’t unbind this invalid ritual, then the game would skip all the other valid def rituals, and call in 6 random creatures?

[Yoshi]

[quote name='freelancer' date='13 May 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1273775841' post='59771']
@Grido… no I didn’t check the ritual win/loss counter…I would do that next time.

@Redd… umm are you saying that if a def ritual becomes invalid but the game doesn’t kill that ritual, then all the def rituals before that one wouldn’t work?
Like if my tree in the def ritual is damaged to less than 301 vit, and I don’t unbind this invalid ritual, then the game would skip all the other valid def rituals, and call in 6 random creatures?
[/quote]

In a word: Yes.

[Pipstickz]

Are you sure you're ticking the defense box while making your ritual?

Are you sure your creatures have more than 300 VE BEFORE adding personal VE (%)?

[quote]@Redd… umm are you saying that if a def ritual becomes invalid but the game doesn’t kill that ritual, then all the def rituals before that one wouldn’t work?
Like if my tree in the def ritual is damaged to less than 301 vit, and I don’t unbind this invalid ritual, then the game would skip all the other valid def rituals, and call in 6 random creatures? [/quote]

Say I have a few rits:

Integrity - | Rit1 | DEF
Integrity - | Rit2 | DEF

So, Rit1 has an elemental on weaken(400 VE), and Rit2 has a remains(1000 VE)

Someone attacks the remains, but leaves it with only 200 VE. If another person attacks you, it should skip Rit2 and use Rit1. But if I'm wrong, sorry. I haven't tested it, because I've never had this problem >>

[adiomino]

Pip is right. Or at least i'm pretty sure. One invalid def rit won't make every single other def rit invalid.

[freelancer]

[quote name='adiomino' date='13 May 2010 - 10:31 PM' timestamp='1273807876' post='59788']
Pip is right. Or at least i'm pretty sure. One invalid def rit won't make every single other def rit invalid.
[/quote]

lol just when i thought the mystery was solved... yeah i thought so too, but the problem i am having seems to show the opposite. I kinda hope its a bug... cuz its alot easier to be able to have another def ritual kick in when one becomes invalid, without having to manaully unbind broken rits first.

I dont know if this is happening to just me or not, Hopefully its not just my luck. Is others having this def ritual problem as well?

[Redd]

[quote]
Someone attacks the remains, but leaves it with only 200 VE. If another person attacks you, it should skip Rit2 and use Rit1. But if I'm wrong, sorry. I haven't tested it, because I've never had this problem >>
[/quote]

Its also been a while since I tested this, but I'm pretty sure that this assumption is wrong.
Rit1 can be used, but it would count as auto-assigned(With the 'too low vitality, auto-assigning' prompt). All other rits before Rit1 can also be activated by chance, if there are any..

I'm not 100% sure with this, though..

EDIT: Tested it just now.. Yea, it auto-assigns and neglects other rituals. And I rememebered that this happens everyday at the GGG..

Edited May 14, 2010 by Redd

[Chewett]

There is no bug, It always happens like this, If the rit it picks is not valid it will default to a random one.

[Burns]

[quote name='Burns' date='13 May 2010 - 08:20 AM' timestamp='1273731654' post='59739']
Or have one creature in two different defs and it's dead by the time?
[/quote]

Good thing you didn't bother to check that and instead just say that i could find that info in the initial post... -.-

Chewie is right, it's always been like that.
It's a highly useful mechanic, not a bug.
It's there to make sure that you keep an eye on your rits when fighting.

The last defence-ritual in the list gets used, in case there is no defence, the last attack-rit in the list, LIFO-system.
The system skips unbound rituals, but it doesn't skip a ritual for not having enough VE, that's not part of the protocol for ritual-picking.
VE gets checked after the rituals are picked, and then you get an auto-assign when your creature is used too often and worn down already.

By the way, this also makes sure the ritual that had too low VE doesn't get broken from the fight, meaning: stop watching your creatures and you'll get randomized over and over again until you watch them again. Makes sure that being active has better results than being idle, even when you just want losses.

[freelancer]

[quote name='Burns' date='14 May 2010 - 02:01 AM' timestamp='1273820509' post='59798']
Good thing you didn't bother to check that and instead just say that i could find that info in the initial post... -.-
[/quote]

@Burns Notice that not once did I say anyone could find anything anywhere in my post, all I said was all the info in the original posts are correct, so people wouldn’t 2nd guessing me. Go back and read if you don’t believe me.
And I did address your comments when I replied. I will address them again here for you. I only use my creatures once to set up my def rituals, that is, if I used them once in a def ritual, I would not use them again. And at the time I set up my def rituals… all my creatures are at full health or have more than 301vit.

I understand what you are saying, that if a def ritual becomes invalid, random 6 creatures would call in to help, but I have asked some people in game and they said they have had another valid def ritual kick in ( in LIFO fashion) when the current selected def rit is not valid.

Now I got this idea from another guide in the forum. Since the guide is a little complicated, I apologize to the writer if I misunderstand what it says.
Heres the link:
http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/1872-how-to-survive-in-md-world/

Go down to where it says “2. Getting attacked and defending”
and read rule 4.

[Burns]

I haven't been speaking of 2 rituals, but two defences. Note the difference between rituals and fights, it's quite important and adressing your concern about my reading abilities. I don't 2nd guess you, i talk about something entirely different than you.

And it seems that the guide is simply wrong there, small wonder, looking at the date of it.
Don't trust mechanics posts older than 6 months. It's rather unlikely that they are still correct.

[freelancer]

[quote name='Burns' date='14 May 2010 - 11:25 AM' timestamp='1273854348' post='59817']
I haven't been speaking of 2 rituals, but two defences. Note the difference between rituals and fights, it's quite important and adressing your concern about my reading abilities. I don't 2nd guess you, i talk about something entirely different than you.

And it seems that the guide is simply wrong there, small wonder, looking at the date of it.
Don't trust mechanics posts older than 6 months. It's rather unlikely that they are still correct.
[/quote]

I appreciate it that you made it clear you have never 2nd guessed me, but you are implying i accused you of 2nd guessing me which is something i have not done, as I never directed it at any1 but "people".

And oic, what you meant by defense is not defense ritual but defenses in fights. Since defense can be used for both, a little more specific would help clear the misunderstanding. Glad you cleared that up.

[No one]

[quote name='freelancer' date='14 May 2010 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1273851537' post='59814']
I understand what you are saying, that if a def ritual becomes invalid, random 6 creatures would call in to help, but I have asked some people in game and they said they have had another valid def ritual kick in ( in LIFO fashion) when the current selected def rit is not valid.
[/quote]
it is correct only if the invalid ritual is no longer usable (can only do "Unbind" on them). that way, the next valid ritual is picked.

[quote name='freelancer' date='14 May 2010 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1273851537' post='59814']

Now I got this idea from another guide in the forum. Since the guide is a little complicated, I apologize to the writer if I misunderstand what it says.
Heres the link:
http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/1872-how-to-survive-in-md-world/

Go down to where it says “2. Getting attacked and defending”
and read rule 4.
[/quote]
for the guide ... was not meant to be comprehensive ( I wrote that ) nor to explain everything, just to give some clues on what is going on .

Rule 4 & 5 ... are a bit obsolete as there is no longer checked for the second valid ritual (i will have to remember to write some corrections to that).

[quote name='Burns' date='14 May 2010 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1273854348' post='59817']
And it seems that the guide is simply wrong there, small wonder, looking at the date of it.
Don't trust mechanics posts older than 6 months. It's rather unlikely that they are still correct.
[/quote]
C'mon Burns, the guide, excepting those 2 points is quite valid even now after almost 2 years. It is still the best least-spoiling guide (in my opinion).

Edited May 18, 2010 by No one