Sparring Grounds.

[Curiose]

This is probably a redundant question, but I personally [I'm not sure about any others] am confused about the situation regarding the Sparring Grounds designated at MBP.

Vegemite [Rhaegar] has posted a thread about changing the SG rules on the sign post, which, I do believe has happened for a small moment of time, for I have seen them change. HOWEVER. Upon reading further into the thread that he has posted, it seems as though the project itself has been halted. That, is not the problem. My question to you is this:

Is, or is not, Vegemite's project still continuing on?

I have been told by numerous people after the fact that the rules have changed, but by viewing the signpost, it is back to its normal information.

I think that this would clear up any confusion that I have, and possibly any others who are in query about this.

[Shadowseeker]

One simple thing: The rules are as they are.

His project is dead. And shall remain dead if you ask me, the one who made the SG.

That I said I will not govern it does not mean I don't look over it.

[Curiose]

Thank you.

Hopefully others read this and understand that nothing has changed.

[Jubaris]

well, Shilla (Curiose ), as said in that forum topic, I paused it for period of time, due to many reasons: unexpected ressistance for changes, Shadowseekers sudden claim of possesion of the grounds and its community project, my great lack of time to focus on such mentioned difficulties of the project.

As soon as I stabilize my schedule (by the end of the month hopefully), I will have more time to concentrate on thoughts such as this depending of the needs of the Kingdom of Marind Bell, for clearance, Marble Dale Park IS part of Marind Bell and if its monarch, King Lifeline, wishes to put some action in it, it will be so.
Marble Dale Park is the most important location for the youngsters, and it should be used accordingly, it cannot be claimed as private ownership of individuals (of course, not unless Mur interferes). The difference between future possible actions for it and my last one would be surveys with more people, researching the current situation in depth, finding possible cooperations - random thought: working together with LHOs in some areas, talking with Shadowseeker about his experiance in the grounds; and ultimately creating something that should work practical for youngsters yet hard or with little reason to abuse in any way. (of course those surveys might lead to the idea that Marble Dale is working fine just how it is, tho I highly doubt it, which would result I guess in making some projects based upon helping the same - nothing enforcing, as always.)

The very point is/should be to integrate the newbies well into the game (for them to know what is out there, what is it about, so they can concentrate on what they like), and unexisting protection of attacking without consent is not giving good advices to the newbies. (you all realize what kindness expects them on mp5)

[b]but it is all in ˝distant˝ future for now. Until then please respect what is given there, or at least dont use unfinished project of the new rules for Sparring Grounds as an excuse to attack other people.[/b]

Its future also depends of the policy of Kingdom of Marind Bell for public relations and its goals which I will follow upon.


now I have no authority to tell this but I will advise: any projects that are desired to be made or maintained on Marind Bells soil should be discussed with King Lifeline, who is very open for such and, which I am sure of, leads people who are very open to help with community projects.
Understand that King of Marind Bell has authority over land of Marind Bell, which you can see from experiance of actions from other kings, and that proclaiming ownership over its territory wont be looked kindly upon.

I think Shadowseeker understood my original post as invasion on his project, which isnt true. For first I wasnt aware at all that Shadowseeker was actually still -looking over it-, I, as well as many others with who I talked later on, believed that he left it for good so long ago.
when or if the time comes for something in Marble Dale Park is to be done via me, be sure Shadowseeker that I will seek you out for a long conversation to clear some things.

[Shadowseeker]

You seem to insist on the following thing: That Lifeline's "authority" enables you to do this.

In the other thread he HIMSELF said that it isn't like that. He owns the place where it is held, but the SG is NOT his.

Before anyone talks about the grounds being used without his permission: If this project would have been established after he was made king, fine. But it took place before him, so asking him for the place to use fell away. Even after he did become king he also never talked about the MDP to me, EVER. So naturally it is to be assumed that he agrees with the place being used.

So stop claiming that his authority allows you to do as you please. You started a project with literally no support from what I saw, aside from Lifeline. You didn't even list any help from people you recruited. I gave you time, but you did not seem to do anything towards that in your step.

If you act in a distant time where I actually left MD, fine. Otherwise I shall NOT allow you to do as you please, possibly even including me picking up the SG again.


And I repeat: Please refrain from posting stupid (to me it does sound like that) things.

Edit: Oh and, even if you do not believe in the rule of rpc, fine with me, that's respectable for me. But I only saw you messing with my former project, and that's what I really cannot stand. Hell, if you get enough newbies (not alts) to agree with you, fine. But even so, I haven't seen that, and doubt I will see so in the future.

Edited August 4, 2010 by Shadowseeker

[Jubaris]

What I mean is Lifeline`s approval doesnt give me authority but legitimacy (it is not clear in public what can Kings do yet in full, but in any case its not about that but in the nature of the project, read on bellow for more info). Anyone can start anything really, but there isnt that much authority for acquiring (what authority you had over Sparring Grounds de facto before? null) except Kings (and it has been proven in events since their estabilshment) and anything Mur announces which wont happen on community projects as far as I know anymore.

Your quote of Lifeline can be interpreted in many ways. As a king he has the right to do whatever he wishes there, but he is not like that as a person to make a mess just to demonstrate something, he wished for Marble Dale Park to function which I supported and agreed to help and try to set, as a project for the community, which means without enforcing but presenting in such and such way so when it comes for the comunity itself to decide will it use something like that or not.
We obviously have different perceptions about some things, you and I Shadowseeker, and it might seem for you that I am talking offtopic, but I am showing my view of things on this subject so you can understand me. (and btw, not his doesnt make it yours )

---
No I didnt list them nor I have obligations to you to list them. I have learned in MD that people like me (who have half of MD on his back waiting for a chance to do some damage from god-knows-which-reasons and complexes) shouldnt list their supporters in any way, is it idea or whatever, cause they will be grudged upon in the future (like many did to me when I invited Logan Marquis in the Savelites as far as I heard recently. Of course no one came to me directly with their disturbings, by default. Some thought that was some kind of conspiracy move, lol, but in my eyes, he was just an old Lorerootian. Only later I found out more about his relationships with the community, who, by default, hides its feelings and waits for opportunity to stab someone)


If you pick up SG cause of me, then I will be very happy that I made a positive change yet again. That is of course if your work makes a positive change, tho I have no doubts.

But yet again you have no legitimite connection with my works so far at all. You left Sparring Grounds and you have no connections for it, you even didnt posted the rules on its sign. (I would quote what Burns posted there now and show how it makes no connection with you at all, but I am not logged in and am supposed to be on some kind of vacation, I am writing this post piece by piece during some time due to being busy . you made me log in on forums anyway ) Anyways as far as I recall they say how no one is there to protect them, its up to the community... no trace of Shadowseeker as far as I know.
The only problem here is that I gave you some kind of twisted reason to grudge me which you can call upon in the future to try vendeta or whatever.



and your last sentece, from that idea comes that people should avoid mentioning Sparring Grounds at all, since it is your former (abandoned) project? and yeah, leaving it for itself doesnt count. You have to be involved to be able to call it still your project.
I personally preffer function of the grounds I have in mind (which number of people liked but thats unimportant, just saying so it doesnt seem that I am the only one who supports that, far from it) since it forces another idea and goal, but I wouldnt mind the original rules either AS LONG as there are people who maintain it and teach people about the realm (since self serving attack on mutual consent is idiotic, people get used to the tranquility feeling and dont get to mp5).
New project for SG was meant to get some action in it, since current one doesnt do any job without its staff.

[Burns]

Since you are going on about me...

I've actually asked Shadow, and repeatedly talked to him about the changes i made to that signpost in time. The major bits are copied from his rules, and whenever additions were made, or the order changed due to changing priorities, i've asked him either before changing and he wrote things himself, or i asked him to have a look at the sign and tell me if he wanted things another way. That project is totally not on my hands, it's just on my signpost because that way there's just one script running in it, which makes things look fancier and more signpost-ish =D

[Shadowseeker]

Current one doesn't do its job without it's staff.

Are you sure about that one particular sentence, rhaegar? Please think of it some more. I said it on the other topic as well, it was intended that way, perhaps not this kind of degree, I never expected it to work. When it did though, why should it still need staff?

Sigh.

[Jubaris]

ok, thanks for clearing that up Burns.

doesnt do its job from my perspective, of course perhaps I am wrong if we have different definitions of its job, Shadowseeker.

ok, this is how I see it, a young player learns that he/she (I will continue as a he from this point ) needs to ask for permission to attack other awake players of his mind power. When exchanging fights with others it is usually free wins exchanging type, and only fights that occur as real fights are against heavily wounded and handicaped idlers.
People get used to the tranquility feeling of developing creatures without healing the dead, enjoying peace and when they hear that mp5 is full of strong evildoers with drachorns, they get demoralized and in most cases they stay on mp4 where they are ˝strong˝ or try to farm some stats on mp4 or even make new characters cause they think they made a major mistake of not distributing every point of xp properly.
I was pretty isolated for period of time as an mp6 so I cant tell for sure, but can you tell me of a ---new--- (as several months old not being an alt) mp5 that managed to adapt to the game and became decently strong to survive and who is still out there, active?

on mp5 they wont find an idling bunch of players who can be farmed on. they will find idling strong evildoers with drach again not wounded

In my opinion I think they should have this feeling of uncertainty on mp3 and mp4 too, where they are even balanced with each other in strengths except the few of alts, because thats how they will learn how to adapt, what rituals to try etc, they would be more prepared about fighthing on later stages.

at least thats what I think, what do you think about SGs function and its effects...?

Edited August 6, 2010 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[No one]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='06 August 2010 - 12:16 PM' timestamp='1281089785' post='65242']

on mp5 they wont find an idling bunch of players who can be farmed on. they will find idling strong evildoers with drach again not wounded

[/quote]
I'm not a bounch but I'm not putting my drachs on def (not on regular basis and the rest of the time ... not on purpose).
I'm mostly using random rituals which are the best rituals to learn from.

I would suggest to others to do the same but ... I know that there are not many willing to stay long time idle.

[Shadowseeker]

There's more though..admittedly, some people on MD are plain scary, but there is no "unbeatable" ritual anymore.

The mp5's aren't as scary as often depicted, and if you just know how to choose your enemies (which you ought to do every MP) then you should just be fine..the strongest won't farm you sooner or later anyways due to honor.



If you ask me, I see about half idle, half online people in the park. True, the idlers usually get wounded over time, but in what regard is that different to MP5 idlers? Many of the rits get broken by people who farm the "strong", and so there is weakness exploiting everywhere..

The park as I see it, is supposed to give the mp3/4 a more sheltered feeling inside the community. Imagine a "noob protection" which you often see in other games..avoiding you to get bashed entirely, and if you ask me the 2 MPs are more than enough. Sooner or later you have to step into the cold water though, that is why I altered the old dojo rules.

See, it can be very discouraging for a new player, who doesnt know a thing, who is told "stay inside here if you do not wish to get bashed into the ground"...do you think they'd enjoy combat at all?

[CrazyMike]

My post is just to answer Rhaegar's question on new MP5's who didnt linger at MP4.

There is Knox, now at MP5 and currently at MP4, mojomuppet who plans to come unto MP5 without lingering longer than necessary at MP4.

They are not strong, but they will come unto MP5 to learn even more.

I do agree that there are some MP4 who spreads stories about evil and scary MP5s, but it doesnt effect everyone.

If there are MP4s who stays at MP4, it is because of perception and it has got nothing to do with the SG.

The perception is shaped by the players they hang out with.

If they hang around players who spreads the word that MP5 is tough, it puts the fear in them.

If they hang around players who mentors and help them, they do not fear MP5.

Again, irrelevant of the rules or projects in SG.

[Curiose]

There are alternate rules as to why people to not move up the MP levles.

Myself for example. I have a distaste in fighting, and would rather simply explore what I can, learn what I can, and do whatever needs to be done.

As by Quoting Mur's fight page, [I'm not entirely sure what it's called at this moment.] which I did find to be quite interesting to say the least: "There is more to MD than just Fighting." It may be a vague quote, but the meaning is still the same.

The only reason I've stepped up these past few days was so that I could become an MP4, and advance, and not be ignorant of anything.


But even so, I think it is even more so a courtesy to people who ask if they can win or lose, etc. They may not get that courtesy as an MP5, but that's when you have to take the waterwings off and start growing up in the fighting system.

[Fyrd Argentus]

Um, I'm on day 164 and beat No One's random defense more often than not. I like to think I'm doing okay.

But why were you asking?

[Curiose]

Why is who asking about what?

[Jubaris]

[quote name='No one' date='06 August 2010 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1281092987' post='65243']
I'm not a bounch but I'm not putting my drachs on def (not on regular basis and the rest of the time ... not on purpose).
I'm mostly using random rituals which are the best rituals to learn from.

I would suggest to others to do the same but ... I know that there are not many willing to stay long time idle.
[/quote]

that is great, just like Burns fight club (congratz for getting mentioned twice in my posts, Burnsy lad ), and if part of community helps younger players like that it would be great, and it could be connected with intro of Shadowseekers Sparring Grounds, but as you said, I doubt many would do that.
Thats my thought of original SG can work if you have -staff- in it (indirectly or directly) meaning as long as people help.


[quote name='Shadowseeker' date='06 August 2010 - 05:09 PM' timestamp='1281107395' post='65256']
There's more though..admittedly, some people on MD are plain scary, but there is no "unbeatable" ritual anymore.

The mp5's aren't as scary as often depicted, and if you just know how to choose your enemies (which you ought to do every MP) then you should just be fine..the strongest won't farm you sooner or later anyways due to honor.



If you ask me, I see about half idle, half online people in the park. True, the idlers usually get wounded over time, but in what regard is that different to MP5 idlers? Many of the rits get broken by people who farm the "strong", and so there is weakness exploiting everywhere..

The park as I see it, is supposed to give the mp3/4 a more sheltered feeling inside the community. Imagine a "noob protection" which you often see in other games..avoiding you to get bashed entirely, and if you ask me the 2 MPs are more than enough. Sooner or later you have to step into the cold water though, that is why I altered the old dojo rules.

See, it can be very discouraging for a new player, who doesnt know a thing, who is told "stay inside here if you do not wish to get bashed into the ground"...do you think they'd enjoy combat at all?
[/quote]


newbie protection, yes I like that, but then it has to be known to them that it is just that, a newbie protection. I think they get reppeled by mp5 or that they leave the game when they come to mp5 unless they are ALREADY integrated into other parts of the game other than fighting like Fyrd did for example.

and yes, analizing other peoples strength as you said! You learn to do that when you fight with non-wounded awake opponents all the time, but when you attack idlers, that doesnt help much. (I think they would learn much more about the game when they would have to adapt to the enviroment than to have so much protection at the start. perhaps it should work just for mp3? thats just a thought tho, and probably a bad one... point is, selective evolution, people evolving and becoming better due to difficulties around them)




and to Crazy Mike, yes you are right about influence of mentors or other players. But that is part influence just as SG is, believe it or not.


this is just my idea for the solution, not necessarily better... but thats why I want to discuss this with all of you so we can all develop a good system or upgrade the current one for the -next generation- ?
talk is cheap, as often said in Morrowind

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='08 August 2010 - 04:23 AM' timestamp='1281263003' post='65403']
this is just my idea for the solution, not necessarily better... but thats why I want to discuss this with all of you so we can all develop a good system or upgrade the current one for the -next generation- ?
[/quote]

Not that I've been reading your whole posts, because I really don't have the patience at this time, but to me it looks like you're just repeating arguments (such as "MP5 is scary for newbs" and "SG doesn't work without staff"), which makes it quite difficult to discuss, does it not? Simply pointing it out.


Now, as for my opinion on the matter, yes, SG would benefit from some moderation of some sort, for certain people if need be, but it doesn't need permanent staff, because TOTAL protection generally makes the newbs soft and weak. An attack without permission here or there doesn't really hurt in the long run, it's the people who persist in breaking the rules that are the problem.

And no, I don't believe complete restructuring, as you've tried, is the best course of action. You've got to ease people into things. Sticking with the example of the SG, when SS took it over, he kept the same general concept (attack with permission only), but made small changes to the rules. In my experience, people don't enjoy radical change, and often oppose it.

[Jubaris]

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='08 August 2010 - 01:24 PM' timestamp='1281266668' post='65406']
Not that I've been reading your whole posts, because I really don't have the patience at this time, but to me it looks like you're just repeating arguments (such as "MP5 is scary for newbs" and "SG doesn't work without staff"), which makes it quite difficult to discuss, does it not? Simply pointing it out.
[/quote]

yes, about that... people werent actually answering that except -no it isnt- so I kept repeating it, nonintentionally, with more and more details.


-it does or doesnt need permanent staff- depends on the system and its effects.

well technically, my point of view was that it wouldnt be that radical of a change, since, in my opinion, it was only de jure SG while it was de facto attacking whenever you feel like it, lots of people applied those rules but -violations- happened all the time and theres really nothing you (as in general for new mp3/4 can do it) can do about it.

any kind of change is hard to do without enough energy invested into it.
I would like us, the community, to list here all the problems SG makes or might have and good things it does or can do, and then act upon it however.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='08 August 2010 - 07:23 PM' timestamp='1281291796' post='65417']
I would like us, the community, to list here all the problems SG makes or might have and good things it does or can do, and then act upon it however.
[/quote]

After spending some time in SG to have a look about its "issues" and talking to several of the new mp3's i dont actually see any issues.

They complain when one person comes in, shouts a bit at them and sometimes the attacker runs off, and sometimes they will apolgise.

I dont think that someone attacking now and then is a bad thing. It means its not a sanctuary like place, where you will never get attacked without you wanting to. It means that people can train with less than normal amount of attacks.

The Way its currently set up, people uphold it themselves. I like the fact that the people using it are the ones "running" it.

We can all go "this is wrong" "that is wrong" "it should be run this way" But we dont know because we dont use it. Some of you may entertain the foolish notion that you know "best" for something. But for an area that you dont use, thinking you know best, is probably a little close to fantasy.

Overall i dont think there are any issues with the current system, and from the people i spoke to, they really liked it as it is.

You said you were repeating what you have said because people were just saying "no its not" well surely the lack of people giving you ideas to improve it, means its fine as it is?

[Jubaris]

I agree mostly with you Chewett except these few things

[quote] After spending some time in SG to have a look about its "issues" and talking to several of the new mp3's i dont actually see any issues.
[/quote]

well what did you expect when asking them anything? for them to say they dont like it when they are free to attack the idlers? (and how can they reply you any decently when they dont know much about MD to state some reasons on up or downside)
the question was what good does the grounds really do, ignoring the fact that it doesnt have any real protection.

[quote]
We can all go "this is wrong" "that is wrong" "it should be run this way" But we dont know because we dont use it. Some of you may entertain the foolish notion that you know "best" for something. But for an area that you dont use, thinking you know best, is probably a little close to fantasy.
[/quote]

I didnt say that I know the best for this, but that I am of belief that certain changes need to be made for decent inflow of ˝educated˝ mp5s, changing Sparring Grounds isnt the only or perhaps most effective way but it is one of the options (of course it would be cool if more people would try to do something?).


[quote] You said you were repeating what you have said because people were just saying "no its not" well surely the lack of people giving you ideas to improve it, means its fine as it is?
[/quote]

or the lack of will to change anything around themselves? indifference? I am glad you already have an option that you like but you cant confirm any of it for sure.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='09 August 2010 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1281356270' post='65465']
I agree mostly with you Chewett except these few things
[/quote]

Those were my 3 points, you agree with me mostly, except the points i have made.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='09 August 2010 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1281356270' post='65465']
well what did you expect when asking them anything? for them to say they dont like it when they are free to attack the idlers? (and how can they reply you any decently when they dont know much about MD to state some reasons on up or downside)
the question was what good does the grounds really do, ignoring the fact that it doesnt have any real protection.
[/quote]

This seems a rather rude, and condescending tone to talk about new players. I can see why some of them leave with older players acting like this. This is just plain rudeness, and continuing to say "i know better"

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='09 August 2010 - 01:17 PM' timestamp='1281356270' post='65465']
I didnt say that I know the best for this, but that I am of belief that certain changes need to be made for decent inflow of ˝educated˝ mp5s, changing Sparring Grounds isnt the only or perhaps most effective way but it is one of the options (of course it would be cool if more people would try to do something?).
[/quote]

What you are saying here is that you dont say you know best, but you think that you need to change this.

I think there are many more effective ways to make more intelligent mp5's (battlewise) and people like burns are doing exactly that. I dont see why you are so badly wanting to change something that is and has been working well.

My suggestion to you Rheagar is to try and do something new, that you can have your "power" over to change however you like. And thus do what you think is nesscary to make these mp5's better.

There is no point experimenting with something that is going well, we just need more of these little prodjects that allow more people to do varied things, than break the few working things.

[Jubaris]

-No, I agreed on your point of view on SG, how it has its charm...
-It is rude when I say its a bit pointless to ask a new player about possible changes around him? furthemore I hardly believe I was the reason of someone leaving the game, you are targeting the wrong old player category (if you define me as old, you phosil I am still in my youth, full of vitality ).
-since you are a fan of word games, I didnt say I feel that I am the one who should do it, just that changes are needed (wanted, whatever, dont take some words from me literaly), sadly I dont see anyone trying to do anything fresh to make things entertaining for the new ones and enlarge our community.
-yes and I agree that fight club can help mp5s, battlewise, but I also think they need to have some kind of preparation pre-mp5 as well.
-perhaps. we are still a small community, too many gatherings would only do bad things by dividing people around the ˝globe˝... It is now clear tho that SG isnt completely abandoned as it seemed, so anything happening in SG by anyone would follow some kind of period of transition rather than ˝radical˝ changes as Pip putted it.
-yes little projects, depending on their nature, length, stability... etc. but who would do such things? But you say ˝breaking things that work˝, how exactly SG works, what does it do ultimately from your point of view?

[Chewett]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='09 August 2010 - 07:48 PM' timestamp='1281379693' post='65478']
-It is rude when I say its a bit pointless to ask a new player about possible changes around him? furthemore I hardly believe I was the reason of someone leaving the game, you are targeting the wrong old player category (if you define me as old, you phosil I am still in my youth, full of vitality ).
[/quote]

Yeah, its pretty rude to totally disregard new peoples opinion of what changes they want. They are as valid as you are. And i dont see where you point about people "leaving the game" You seem to have mistaken my point entirely. I may be old here, but i have seen MD grow from not actually being playable. Its doing much better than it ever has been and i feel its getting better. about my "age" in the game, i feel that once you reach a point you are all in the same position, prettymuch after a year or so.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='09 August 2010 - 07:48 PM' timestamp='1281379693' post='65478']
-perhaps. we are still a small community, too many gatherings would only do bad things by dividing people around the ˝globe˝...
[/quote]

I disagree with this point. During the time GGG was active, there were no more or less people in the normal areas. As you said there is little activity, i dont feel that one extra area will really "decide the community". We all have our action points, lets use them!

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='09 August 2010 - 07:48 PM' timestamp='1281379693' post='65478']
-yes little projects, depending on their nature, length, stability... etc. but who would do such things?
[/quote]

Well it seemed you wanted to do something for the community, so i had thought you wanted to do something. But if that is not the case then i suppose it would have to be someone else.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='09 August 2010 - 07:48 PM' timestamp='1281379693' post='65478']
But you say ˝breaking things that work˝, how exactly SG works, what does it do ultimately from your point of view?
[/quote]

I feel that SG is more of a format than actually what it does there. Its somewhere that has a few rules so that most people respect, and it keeps un-consenting fighting down to a minimum. Its a place that allows specific rituals to be given and traded and for people to test new things.

You cant force people to do something, so i feel this is a good format to try and get people to learn their own way.

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='09 August 2010 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1281379693' post='65478']
-It is rude when I say its a bit pointless to ask a new player about possible changes around him?[/quote]
Tone and choice of words is everything. "Well what did you expect when asking [b]them[/b] anything?" Such a sentence can and will be understood as 'noobs are ignorant', which is indeed rude.

[quote]furthemore I hardly believe I was the reason of someone leaving the game, you are targeting the wrong old player category.[/quote]
He never said 'you', he said 'if many people talk the way you do'. The issue of "old" players being rude towards new players has been raised countless times before.

[quote]-since you are a fan of word games, I didnt say I feel that I am the one who should do it, just that changes are needed (wanted, whatever, dont take some words from me literally), sadly I dont see anyone trying to do anything fresh to make things entertaining for the new ones and enlarge our community.[/quote]
Continuing on the 'word games', you say you don't know best, but you do know that things need to change AND that nobody tries to do anything (fresh). That's not a paradox, that's being inconsistent. Furthermore I think you ought to look harder. eg. If you look at the WP logs, you'd notice several people have bought grade 4 clickies and some 'newer' players are making good innovative quests. That's not related to battles, but such is not my expertise. However I doubt nobody is trying anything at all there.


As for what the SG do: they seem to do what they were intended too. A self regulating semi safe place to train. It also makes it easier to find targets and people to talk to, since the realm can be quite empty if you stray far from the gazebo of equilibrium.

[Curiose]

The only problem that I ever had in the SG was a couple players continuously farming me for wins when I was a vulnerable Mp3 and just beginning to learn the fighting system. However, that I am sure, is how most Mp3/4's feel.

Aside from that, most unconsented attacks are from ignorance, not by purposefully doing them other than those who insist on farming. If [b]Anything[/b] were to be changed, in my opinion, it would have to be the players reading the sign and not making ignorant mistakes, so as to get less people complaining about unwanted attacks.

But even then, that element, I believe, allows the players to learn to make a stronger defense in case of such an attack. If that defense allows them a win from that unwanted attack, the one who disregarded the rules, would learn not to attack that player again, lest wanting another loss.

I currently do like the SG, but at the same time, it feels like it's a little unrealalistic. When Mp3/4's become an Mp5, they're going to have to deal with stronger players who don't ask for wins or losses. [Unless, there is a sparring grounds for Mp5 that has that specific rule.]