Petition Against February

[Firsanthalas]

We aren't acting like the inquisition. In the past people were moved up MP levels because they were simply over-powered.
MP3 is about learning, it is not about using your knowledge to sit there as the cream of the crop. While I can't prove it, I also suspect that he used a wishpoint to get his xp back to zero. Granted there is nothing wrong with this, but it really seems silly to me to be using it at MP3 purely to stay there for the purpose of being some kind of super strong MP3. Just a personal opinion though.

[Burns]

[quote name='Atrumist' timestamp='1282938344' post='67189']
If you don't want to see people stuck in mp3 forever why don't you start petition about making mp3 time limited?
[/quote]

I wouldn't disagree with that, and proposed various methods in the past, but most of the time, the old mp3 have common sense, like Yoshi and Kyphis.
It's not like i wouldn't have wanted those to advance faster, too, but at least they set themselves with defences that don't strike back at all times.

I don't think that one person is enough to have a system changed, specially when it takes almost a year to get into such a position. Only few are still that ignorant of any common sense after such long time.

[Metal Bunny]

Let me cite something which may, or may not, fit into Mur's frame of mind.

When I was mp3, all mp levels were allowed to attack each other, because the influx of new people, and the newness of the game overall (dark archers lvl 4 were like, the top and a new lvl 5 or even a maxed chaos archer was the summum of the summum), ensured that there were too few players to properly fight pvp. The fact that the difference between mp levels were small as well, ensured that people could fight other mp levels. Heck, mp levels was just a long way of getting more stats. Deetn for example, was mp8. All that was necessary was the player going through the storymode and then redo it again.

That changed when mp levels were restricted to only being able to fight their own levels. Around the same time (too lazy to look it up), Mur forced people with too few xp or too much xp, to go to their proper mp levels. This is a precedent he can, if he wants to, go back to.

But after a while, thanks to BigC, the xpcap was getting smashed on a regular basis. However, a new mplevel, such as mp6, was not the option as it would just postpone the problem.
Then there came a lovely new contest, in which people were invited to try and lose xp by themselves.
I believe it was No One and/or Dst who won... as usual ¬_¬.

However, since mp5 was supposed to be the level where you stop learning and start exploring the unknown, where you can truly achieve, instead of simply aspiring to, he removed the ability for mp3 and mp4 to lose xp.



February still has mp3-esque profile stat, heh, last time I spoke to him, he got a negative value for initiative. The only way he possibly have gotten to such high amounts of power is by increasing his VE and using angiens.

If history were to be repeated, access to angiens would become more difficult for mp3, the xp reset wish would become inaccessible for mp3 and february would be forced up, with maybe a slight 'reward' for circumventing the entire purpose of mp3 and its many restrictions.


To restrict mp3 to a max time limit, or too simply scrutinize mp3 and force them up later, would go against its purpose and one of mur's avid hobbies. Mp3 is a time for learning, not everyone learns at the same speed, scrutiny would be too slow and time wasting and mur likes to observe what people, so the fact that february was able to accomplish this is interesting at the very least, so it's more likely that mur won't make such drastic measure as putting a ridiculous cap on mp3.

[CrazyMike]

Feb is a unique case.

Overpowered mp3 and mp4 usually try their best to lay low and not be detected by the radar.

Feb has chosen to boast about his exploits which exposes himself as overpowered.

There are precedents where overpowered Mp3 or Mp4 be forced to the next level, and I believe Feb qualifies for it.

He likes to show off his exploits in beating MP5s, let him beat us as MP5.

I dont see any benefits in him staying at MP3.

Agrees to petition to bring Feb to MP5.

[Fyrd Argentus]

I agree something should be done to change the system. Many possibilities exist. I don't agree single players should be singled out for special treatment by Mur, just because they are braggarts.

Special treatment by players is another matter, of course.... Nobody believes this guy is playing his first character in MD, do they?

[Kyphis the Bard]

I have known february almost his entire time in game (on this account)

I have worked with him many times, and I DO like him. I consider him a good friend.

I spent a long time at MP3, and now also at MP4. However, I Rarely fought (except when helping the Dojo/SG or participating in heads). There are almost No instances where I gave people unwanted experience, and while I certainly could beat MP5 on my own merit (the weaker ones at least ) I never sat around with impossible defenses. My reasons for being MP3/4 had/have nothing to do with combat, and are all about my role. I will, in fact, be moving up to MP5 soon*.

That said, I don't see any reason for february to stay MP3. He doesn't have a role that requires him to be MP3, and he does sit around with rituals that are a negative impact on new players perceptions of MD.

I am for forcing him to go up, but I hope he will take proper heed of this topic and advance himself.


*disclaimer: soon is not a measurement of time

Edited August 27, 2010 by Kyphis the Bard

[Totenkopf]

i second (or rather twenty-third or something ) the petition for feb to be moved to mp5.

regarding mp3s in general, i'd think a proper moment to "force-advance" them would be when getting more than say 10-20k VE, which would take them way out of n00b territory

[Muratus del Mur]

First of all what i think about this:

- cant tell you how glad i am when a veteran fighter complains about getting beaten
- the problem with ultra powerfull mp3 is that they attack noobs or partial noobs, thats worse than it seems
- mp3 was not supposed to be a fighting stage, thats why the low cap


What could be done:

- stats cap for mp lower than 5, easy to do but will cut from the diversity of mp3 and will push many further, leaving low levels empty
- stats penalty calculated dynamically based on how weak the opponent is. this means attacking very weak enemies will cost you dearly, but its hard to do/balance
- human decision, establishing of a comitee, inquisition style, that can promote someone to mp5, even a guild so that the role can be passed on over generations of players
- one man decision, land dependent, ability granted by a royal item, so king or one person assigned by the king can forcefully promote to mp5. one other person to handle non citizens.
- do nothing and kindly ask those that can do such fights to understand that attacking new players or those that dont wish to be fighters and keep mp3 for the role, is harmfull to the community and should not be done (but not by rule)...you can imagine what happens when someone will ignore a kind request


whatever the decision will be this will and should affect all of you and future players. There is no current rule to prohibit mp3 slaughter, there is no crime done, it is only a matter on how to improve things, not to punish someone. Unfortunately whatever change will prevent powerfull mp3 to exist or fight, will affect gameplay greatly and also future mp levels. Think of all the roles and possibilities cut by making mp levels limited ... i lean towards an option less effective but with more bending potential, so that someone someday will find a way around it and make his legend.

keep your replies short and to the point (not like i do) so i can read all and take the right decision. i need your opinion and suggestions, but this is not a vote..the majority wish is less important in front of a clever idea that might not please all but keep things just, flexible and with role potential. Oh yeah, becomming a mp3 nightmare and pissing off veterans is also sort of a role, afterall we are just talking about it.

[Tipu]

New rule : MP3 players cannot access MD shop.
advantages : 1) The MP3 world will be even for all, a good sign for many new players to continue playing MD.
2) All vets players will be self forced to get MP4.
3) Even Vets Alts will be even to a new player.
4) No complains about token and unfair fight in head contest atleast in MP3 lvl.
5) New player will have a good chance of judging the game before using the credit card.

Disadvantage : 1) well only one , less money for MD

[Darigan]

do nothing and kindly ask those that can do such fights to understand that attacking new players or those that dont wish to be fighters and keep mp3 for the role, is harmfull to the community and should not be done (but not by rule)...you can imagine what happens when someone will ignore a kind request

human decision, establishing of a comitee, inquisition style, that can promote someone to mp5, even a guild so that the role can be passed on over generations of players

thos two would be the best ways i can see that would be most effective and least abusable for people.

[freelancer]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1282959666' post='67199']

- stats penalty calculated dynamically based on how weak the opponent is. this means attacking very weak enemies will cost you dearly, but its hard to do/balance

[/quote]

I like that idea, mainly because I think the fact that being able to attack people who are 100X or 1000X weaker than you is wrong, and stats damage to the attacker would only make it fair.

Second, I have seen quite a few people who have to avoid populated area, since they are near skill damage from all the lossing fights. With skill penalty, they can stop being everybody's target, and don't have to stay out of plain sights anymore more.
I have seen some who had to turn to role-play fights, not just because its fun for them, but to avoid skill damage from losing in real fights.

Third, players who do not have enough stats to compete with the super mp5s, and have to ask around for help with training, or have to ask others for mercy to let them win, can get to better enjoy, and play the game. Since this idea would attracts more people to advance, which would generate higher amount of new mp5 players that is needed. Some even had to make new alts just to have fun again after reaching mp5.

Fourth, this would encourage and allow more Mp3 and Mp4 players to join guild and/or alliance, without having to worry about being univeral targets of powerful mp5s.

These are but just a few points I could think of that shows why a stat penalty from attacking the relatively weak is very much needed. I really hope you would consider it.


PS. Some of my personal haters (who i know wants to kick me over and over again) have to kill off their creatures to avoid fights can possibly benefit from this. I must be crazy to support this.

Edited August 28, 2010 by freelancer

[CrazyMike]

I like the way things are now.

No changes to the system.

But have a guild of sorts that deals with overpowered MP3 and MP4.

Let the guild decide or force anyone to the next level.

Participation of guild could be representative of all lands.

[adiomino]

I say no to the stats damage change. Mostly because for me, it would greatly limit who i could attack. Why can't a strong mp5 attack a weaker mp5 without consequences? Heck... I'm fine with all the stronger guys beating up my creatures.

Also! I'm all for a guild dealing with overpowered characters in the lower mind power levels.

Perhaps feb shouldn't take any punishments himself. Since he didn't actually do anything wrong. (though he could be dealt with by the guild) He doesn't pose an immediate problem after all.

Edited August 28, 2010 by adiomino

[Burns]

[quote](extracts of http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/5817-low-leveling/)

Me: Creature Limit, either by level in general (which i don't like, really), or with specific creatures (DA2, drach hatchlings, angiens lvl3, probably ani tree 3, specifications can always be discussed and changed at later times)

Fenrir (post 4): Mp3s should be restricted to public creatures only. But not the max levels.


Daemon (post 15): Do not allow MP3 to have tokens, leave tokens for MP4 and 5 only.
Make creatures MP level specific and only allow them to be transferred up in MP level, not down.[/quote]

Another thing i could imagine is a sacrificing limit. On mp3, you can't do more than... say... 10 sacrifices.


I don't like the stat penalty idea, mainly because newbies wouldn't know when it applies, i'd rather like the honor-thingy fixed so far that over-attacking weak players is unattractive in the long run.

One man decisions... yeah, i like that. As long as you're that one man, i wouldn't trust any king, or even Grido, with that power. No offence, but we guys are not nice, and play far too much with the newbies to have an objective picture of the situation.

[Shemhazaj]

[font="Book Antiqua"][color="#696969"]Saccing limit for MP3

Making crits like angiens and drachs unavailable for MP3
or maybe even better
making a limit on how much you can upgrade some crits on MP3
(adding MP lvl to requirements)[/color][/font]

[Sharazhad]

[color="#2e8b57"][i] The Idea of a guild against high powered low level mp levels is a great way to keep things in check. right now there is nothing stopping an mp3/mp 4 becoming a monster mp - I guess if there was, it would curb the idea somewhat.

Oh I also think that the 20 capped noobs should be aided somehow, given a second chance to drop their exp. not as something that can be done all the time, but a special once off clearance for them. They didnt ask to be capped, they shouldnt be punished for it!!

Edited for spelling and a re-think on certain ideas
[/i][/color]

Edited August 28, 2010 by Sharazhad

[Yrthilian]

Ok will keep this as short as i can

- MP3 ban from joining alliances

Beeing in an alliance is not for noob players it is more of a medium level
place. I think restricting Alliance membership is one encentive to move up
a level.

- Creature upgrade requirements

If the more powerfull creature that dont require xp to level up are changed
to require at least some amount of xp abouve the xp cap for MP3 this should
resolve the issue of over powered creatures on an MP3 player.

- Force to MP4

This i would see as a last resort to be honest. Forcing a player to MP4 not mp5
is a big desission. I dont think the kingship should have that power. Kingship
is for land issues. I dont think having the kingship force a non land player
to the next mp level is the way to go. If you feel it has to be someone then
it should fall under the LHO as mp3 care is their job and this would certanly
be the sort of thing they should be looking at. But i really dont think this is
a good idea to give the comunity the ablity to do to easly abused.

- Limit creature amount

Mp3 only need about 8 creature slots. It is a learning curve they dont need
a huge creature list. Moving to MP4 would have an incentive as this is part
of learning and expanding the mind. So making the MP4 creature limit the normal
limit.


I know some of the suggestion made are not ging to be liked but i think making MP3 more limited
is the way to go as it IS a learning stage but still leave it open for an MP3 to still be a pain
in the ass.

[Sharazhad]

[quote name='Yrthilian' timestamp='1282988075' post='67210']
- Force to MP4

This i would see as a last resort to be honest. Forcing a player to MP4 not mp5
is a big desission. I dont think the kingship should have that power. Kingship
is for land issues. I dont think having the kingship force a non land player
to the next mp level is the way to go. If you feel it has to be someone then
it should fall under the LHO as mp3 care is their job and this would certanly
be the sort of thing they should be looking at. But i really dont think this is
a good idea to give the comunity the ablity to do to easly abused.


[/quote]

[i][color="#2e8b57"]If a player decides to take on the role of a monster in a level then I think it is the job of the LHO's to warn newbies to keep away from that character. Attacks from said monster should be reported to LHO who should then use it as a case to force them to uplevel.
[/color][/i]

[Shadowseeker]

A stat cap for mp3 that isn't too low:

20k ve
500 attack
500 defense
100 regen

I mean, unless someone really grinds a LOT using low exp methods, there's no way they'd ever hit that cap in mp3 normally.

Mp4 I propose:

120k ve
1000 attack
1000 defense
200 regen

Should put a cap on the grinders. And normal people shouldn't be affected by these limits.

Edit.
Altered the ve cap on mp4 a bit, but if you ask me it shouldn't be any more than that. The change was due to high storymode gains..so in case someone with 20k ve goes in he should still get a little bit spare to use.

(assume 20 is max, after heads 30k, so he still can get a few k ve MAX)...Any more and mp4 will get bashed by the same people again.

General idea is..if you do max out, after storymode you can only advance a little more. On the other hand, if you didn't max out, then you still have plenty of time till the cap arrives.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Shadowseeker

[lightsage]

If something like that is introduced, I'd recommend adding:

MP3

150 power

MP4

300 power

[Mr Mystery]

id say the Ve cap is too low. I mean if you look at mp3 head winners thats already 14k. plus people could get a few more thousand from story mode with its new change.

And regarding mp4, just look at mp3 head winnders who advance, with 20-30k vit. Me for example, when i advance to mp4, after wining heads and have 30k+ vit, came out of story mode in mp4 with 100k+.

So im propsoing mabe a higher number on the VE part, but the rest seems reasonable.

[Fyrd Argentus]

How about if you win HC - you advance automatically as part of the prize.

[Mr Mystery]

I wont consider that as a prize, more like a side effect.

[Poppi Chullo]

I like Tipu's idea about no access to MD Shop For MP3

And yes February must advance, to MP4 minimum.. Unless he no longer have the ability to attack MP3 players then alright if he stay.

[Thanatopic]

Find a suitable character, and add it to their role. Hell, you could have more than one of them if they each of them had different styles of fitting it into their role. Like I said earlier, enlightenment does not always come gently. Sometimes your mind get's blown, and you move forward whether you'd like it or not. It would have to be someone you can trust, and the power itself would have to be one you could remove if it was being abused.

There are a lot of roles I could imagine that would do this. And that's how I would do it..because it's interesting.