Make Time Transition For New Rules

[Novato]

I will not question the new rule about not sacrifice angien egg for VE.

I just want to make a suggestion. Maybe, there should be a time for transition between make an announcement of the new rule and really apply it. It's not something hard or very subjective to make, in my opinion, and it is much more fair.

For exemple, in the case of the new announcement, the player know as february abuse the old rule of sac angiens eggs to have high vitality and become a "God Account". But, many other players (far away from being so powerfull) spend credits to buy extra creatures slots. Ok, extra creatures slots is also very usefull to have more than one or two fight army, but some of them would never spend credits with it if not to sacrifice angiens eggs. The plans of many are frusteted because the abuse of just one account. In this case, maybe there should have the announcement of the new change, but only apply it after 59 days. So, people cannot pick up angiens eggs to sacrifice today (they know it will be useless, because the new rule start with 59 days) and many others can finished their plans to get VE.

What you all think about it?

[Burns]

Absolutely no, it's a lot more fun if new rules hit you totally unprepared =D

[Prince Marvolo]

Also, new rules will probably be discussed before they are implemented, especially when they are big ones,
This should give you time to prepare for it.

And Burns has a point xD

[Miq]

If you are abusing what is getting banned you probably deserve it. If you are not then you don't really care.

[Eon]

I agree with Burns, I enjoy these kind of surprises.

That would be an extra 59 day's for February to get his hands on aged angiens.

[Yrthilian]

I agree with Burns

this is how it has always been done
to get VE boost in such a way just meens people will prepar to use
an abuse system for that time The eggs are not the only think players can use
to gain VE boost and the eggs are not for the use of gaining huge VE

When something like this come to the atenchion of Mur he makes the chage
and anounces it that is how it has always been and i for one think it is best
to have a time between changes and anouncment is pointless as there are that many
bugs fixed everyday that si would only create a backlog of changes and then bugs could not be fixed
while waiting on another chnge to go through

[Peace]

Whether one gets or not his hands on aged angiens it still won't offer them anything rather than temporary stats. Angiens don't offer anything upon sacrificing as to permanent stats in any level. That prevents people for increasing their vitality in a short time.

As for the topic itself about rules... I do too agree with Burns. They are rules. Rules are not given to us to think about them and then give our permission or not to be implemented. The game is not ours to run it, he to whom it belongs to knows better. Or his staff even. Whether we like it or not, we just have to live with it and move on our daily routine.

So a lot of people spend credits to buy slots for creatures just to store angiens only to sacrifice them for their permament vitality bonus. Now their plans are ruinned but so what? You will find another way in the end like everybody does and use this for your advantage and of course don't forget... move on.

[Mighty Pirate]

I agree, Novato.

As for the current announcement: It was about time, and I strongly support it. Eliminating the possibility to get VE for free was very good. Although, it struck me hard ([b]many[/b] eggs with 57-58 days each).

But, in general, I believe in something like strategies. Some play around just doing whatever comes to their mind, others spend time thinking about a good creature training strategy. I would prefer announcements on future changes which do not give enough details to enable endless discussions but give enough time to change training strategies.

Mighty Pirate

[Fyrd Argentus]

Fast adaptors and experimentalists have a big advantage in this game.

[Grido]

I have a number of Angiens i was aging myself for this so it does annoy me a little, but i understand why it was done. And you've gotta remember the game is constantly changing, to delay making changes so that people could adjust to the idea would pointless because it will likely happen still, regardless of what the public said in responce, all it would mean would be that people would exploit the old state as much as they can before the change occurs.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Novato' timestamp='1283872603' post='67961']
I will not question the new rule about not sacrifice angien egg for VE.I just want to make a suggestion. Maybe, there should be a time for transition between make an announcement of the new rule and really apply it. It's not something hard or very subjective to make, in my opinion, and it is much more fair.For exemple, in the case of the new announcement, the player know as february abuse the old rule of sac angiens eggs to have high vitality and become a "God Account". But, many other players (far away from being so powerfull) spend credits to buy extra creatures slots. Ok, extra creatures slots is also very usefull to have more than one or two fight army, but some of them would never spend credits with it if not to sacrifice angiens eggs. The plans of many are frusteted because the abuse of just one account. In this case, maybe there should have the announcement of the new change, but only apply it after 59 days. So, people cannot pick up angiens eggs to sacrifice today (they know it will be useless, because the new rule start with 59 days) and many others can finished their plans to get VE.What you all think about it?
[/quote]

rules will always and have always changed, the extra creature slots will be useful, they are hardly a waste of money.

Anyways, What you are asking for is some more time to abuse something that is getting removed/changed so its less abusable. Isnt that a VERY stupid question?

[dst]

Heh! It was about time this was implemented.

Don't go chasing february cause i doubt he's the sole reason for this change. Mur never changes anything just for 1 player*. February was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
Credits were not spent in vain. There are other ways to farm ve. C'mon! It was too easy: lay on your back, relax and wait for angiens to age then puff! free ve. That's not normal. I reached my ve (I have about 300k - no it's not a secret) by farming other things. Not a single angien was harmed to give me his ve. And I think I did a pretty good job without them. You can say that credits were wasted when the number of drachs was reduced from 6 to 3 if we were to talk about wasting thing. It's not exactly the same thing but close.


*-remember when he implemented stats damage? If not, I will remind you: one day we had the announcement, no foreplay no nothing...He did it because too many players were abusing something that WAS game mechanics. You must understand that if there are 1 or 2 or even 3 players abusing something, that something will not be fixed because of those players. They don't count in statistics, they are left outside since they do not represent the population. But when more and more players (ab)use things then something is done about it.

MD is a game about the survival of the fittest. Show that you are a survivor and one change doesn't make the whole world collapse on you.

[Kyphis the Bard]

I two have a heap of angiens that where solely for saccing. 20 of them, in fact.
As most of you know, I don't care about combat and I almost very have more than a third my max VE, I was gaining this VE for use in conjunction with the Healing Spell from the Wish Shop.
Since I didn't really care about when I sacced them, and didn't need the slots, they have ALL been ready to sacrifice for about a month now.

That said, even with that plan spoiled, I still say No to the idea of a waiting time for new rules to get implemented.
It would not be in the spirit of the game.
You know what those 20 angiens will now be used for? Quest rewards. You might not want them, but you can bet someone will.

If an abuse has been accepted, fine continue to use it. But recognize it IS an abuse, and WILL be fixed without much notice.
There aren't that many things in this game that can be done only one way.

All of that said, I would not object if the sacc rewards from the level two angiens where made the sacc rewards for maxed angiens >.>
It kind of bugs me that one of the hardest creatures to raise gives no rewards once you do so '~'

Edited September 7, 2010 by Kyphis the Bard

[Novato]

"Anyways, What you are asking for is some more time to abuse something that is getting removed/changed so its less abusable. Isnt that a VERY stupid question?"

Actually I was not creative with this suggestion. Stupid or not, some real life laws of my country have what I called time transition. But, if it's not really because of just one or few persons and there is a statistic about the issue, then I sorry for my argument.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Novato

[Nimrodel]

I have incredibly low stats.
I have just three empty slots which I'll be filling up soon. (yes i finished all those in the shop atm and i got those three slots by saccing the three angien eggs I was waiting to farm ve from).
I am not a richie rich person who can buy creds and go for a shop reset.
Only three trees are allowed in a rit.
February and many others already have abused the angien ve farming system have a huge headstart.

From what I've learnt, to train efficiently in mp5, one needs stats or ve or tokens or all the three.

I have none.

Even drachorns and angiens need stats, ve or tokens to work efficiently.Considering the present situation, I'll be needing trees to raise my ve. To train trees, i'll be needing slots first. Ok.. So i finally sac a few of the creatures i've spent so much time training and get myself a few slots. Now i attack a few strong mp5s and lose. Why? OH Wait! I hardly have any stats to get wins on trees! Then it strikes my mind that i should attack weak or noob mp5s to train my trees. Where are they? In sanctuaries. How wonderful.

Now I decide to wait patiently for one of them to pop out so that I can attack them. And they send me a pm ' [i]Do you like torturing weak mp5s with your tokened BP rit[/i]?' I am speechless. I decide not to attack the weak guy and use my bp rit to attack the medium level mp5 guys. I get a few wins for my trees. And by the time i finish training my trees, I am out of ve at least 10 times. And without ve, my bp rit is practically a failure. What about training other crits? like the young angiens I have? Oh never mind. I'll just forget about maxing them. Because without high ve they are useless. And I don't think I could ever cross 100K max ve limit in my life.

I am not whining about the fact that angien ve thingy has been removed. Its just that, The ones who've abused the stuff when they had time to do it just go free. No penalty. nothing. They get to bask in the glory of their power. And the ones who chose to do things the other way round are the sufferers. Same happened with GGG(please don't say I am whining about GGG or bring back the GGG issue again because I have hardly used GGG and I really never supported it). Now its happening again. My dreams of becoming a moderately strong player just... crash everyday. Just because some S.O.B. decides to abuse and abuse and abuse and is never ever tired of abusing because he's never the sufferer. So should i believe that abusing the mechanics is a good thing? So that I can become unnaturally strong and powerful? Because I don't think being sincere is helping me even a tiny bit.

Why blame february in particular? Because I've strong reasons to believe he's just an alt. And It's kinda being very tough to digest the fact that an alt was the final straw.

[Tipu]

ok just make it fair for every one:

from today onwards those who recruit angien eggs will not get the benefit of getting Ve but for those who already got the angien eggs will get those benefit. We can do that by creature id no. lets say creature id no from xxxxxx will not be rewarded when sac at lvl 2.
The same happened when the archers ability was changed. I was the only one who protested. and i got neg point and consider as stupid. well all i want to say is lot of them left MD don't make the hard core to leave too that's all.

[Pipstickz]

-Angien eggs required no effort, just age.
-Yes, they take up creature slots, but the slots can still be used, even though the creature occupying them can't be sacced for any great reward any more.
-More time wouldn't have even helped most people unless you asked for an unreasonable amount. A reasonable amount to ask for is 1-2 weeks, not 1-2 months.
This is basically asking for compensation for NOT doing work.

[Chewett]

Some of you are hypocrites. You complain about people who have already farmed ve, and then when said method if taken away you complain that you were abusing it and couldn't continue.

I had 20 angiens. all waiting to be aged up, im not annoyed because i knew that this issue would be patched some day or other. Febuary just made the issue more well known, You should thank him for making the issue clearer to mur so that its now fixed.

The fact that it has been changed, means it should not have been like it in the first place, if you got a bit of ve from it lucky you. If you were farming ve, then you are complaining that others farmed it more and thats not fair.

Magicduel has not ever been fair, just look back to when statloss was implemented, same topic then as <insert name here> said.

The topic shows the extent of the issue, you guys and i were all doing it. Ve should not be gained that easily. So its been stopped.

[Yrthilian]

To thoes complaining they have low stats

I have not complained that i have low stats and if you look and compaire mine to many MP5's
much younger than i they have much bigger stats.

Stats are not everything it is the stragity behind what you have
Changes like this have to happen to keep the ballance i have many time lost out on something
because i wount use the system in that way.

I dont complain because i didnt bother to work on gaining the stats the same way
The game is not just about winning it is also about loosing.

If you have low stats find other of your mp level and agree to do some training in a place
not visited often just as many others have already been doing. Once you have a group to trade wins
and gain stats you will also learn how easy it is to target certan stats and get them built up
it is part of the learning curve of MD to do this.

When i am back from my honeymoon i may start doing some training sessions with people
as yes i too want to build up my stats a bit and relearn the combat system and the only way
to do that is to start a combat training group. I suggest thoes that are unhappy with their
stats do the same.

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Tipu' timestamp='1283913931' post='68010']
ok just make it fair for every one:
[/quote]
There is no such thing as fair for everyone.
How could your suggestion possibly be fair for the people who join MD tomorrow? To them, if they ever read the discussion, it will seem as though an exploit was explicitly extended for everyone except them. How about a person who ordered credits to get the free slots but is one day too late even with the proposed extension? The odds of such happening are slim, yet there will always be someone who feels left out. Looking at the global picture, any arbitrary cut off time for an exploit is equally 'fair for everyone'. With the exception of 'immediately upon discovery'.

[Shemhazaj]

[quote]Just because some S.O.B. decides to abuse and abuse and abuse and is never ever tired of abusing because he's never the sufferer. [/quote]

[font="Book Antiqua"][color="#696969"]just a thing I might add.
I talked to one of those people who did the abusing in the past and that's what I heard:

"you liked the new rule on angiens? I hate it. And because of that I'm gonna do something again.
I'm gonna make something really new. We'll see what they'll do again."

there's a difference between using and abusing. What? The attitude.
no further comments...[/color][/font]

[Novato]

Just a few points:

1) When was set that sacrifice an angien egg give 4k of vitality everone know how people will use it. Stop pretend that you're such naive that don't know that, you know that people would do since from begin. We are no criminals for act like a normal, egotistical humam beings. It shouldn't be this way from the begging, then don't blame us. And no, I won't thank february. I don't hate him, but I won't thank him either.

2) If a creature can't give VE just with age, then maybe something should be done with the bird egg that give Value Points without XP or wins.

3) "If you were farming ve, then you are complaining that others farmed it more and thats not fair." Maybe, it's not what a saint should do. But, if someone more stronght than you hit you in real life. It's not fair to learn martial arts to hit him harder, when nobody do ANYTHING against the bulling? Maybe it's not virtuous, but YES, it's very fair.

4) I agree that there isn't such thing as "fair for everbody", but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to be more close to it.

[dst]

Tell me: how do VP help you in battle? Wait. Don't answer that cause we all know the answer.


Now, for the ones that bought slots for storing angiens: you know as well as I do that there is another way of getting ve. Angiens was the easiest. So use your slots to raise the other crits that give ve. A little work did not kill anyone.

Edited September 11, 2010 by dst

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Novato' timestamp='1284215431' post='68201']
4) I agree that there isn't such thing as "fair for everbody", but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to be more close to it.
[/quote]
And how do you propose we try that? Fair is already a vague concept, so i'll replace it with nice. We also established that everybody is not possible, so let's replace that with 'as many people as possible'. So we have the aim of the new rules being as nice as possible for as many players as possible.

How would things be nice for the most people currently playing? By stopping the angien bonus immediately. There are more people in support of this than of an extension. Period.
How would it be nice for the most people, that might be playing in the next decade? By stopping this yesterday, so that the number of people who could have abused it, by the time they sign up, would be as low as possible.

Here we have an interesting kind of paradox. Both ends of the spectrum - old players and players not yet enlisted - agree, yet the middle has opposite views. If this does not amuse you the slightest, then MD is just not for you.
Also, read up on Sorites' paradox. It's fun; I'm using it against you, which is fun ... for me, sort off.

[Novato]

Kaffuka, are you upset with the way I and few others use the word "fair"? It was really NOT my intention to upset anyone with that word, but I am a little upset with the use of the word "abuse". Don't you think that the word "abuse" could be so vague as "fair", if we compare "use" and "abuse"?

I alread give up of my initial suggestion when I write "...But, if it's not really because of just one or few persons and there is a statistic about the issue, then I sorry for my argument."

I am sure you can find a way to use the Sorites' paradox with the words "use" and "abuse" better than I. The Sorites' paradox is interesting, but "fight" because of one word tired me. There is no point in use anything against you or any other, then I hope that this could be my last post about this topic, if it's ok with you.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Novato