What is going on?

[Fyrd Argentus]

Seig, you asked us to encourage our alliance members to form quests and go to you for sponsorship. I did, he did, and this was the reply he got:

Quote:
Passant,

Normally, I would reject this immediately on the grounds that I do not want people asking me to sponsor their quests or even suggesting rewards. But, I was going to anyways. So, head this warning.

Seigheart
Unquote.


What the devil is going on?

p.s. I think it very inappropriate to demand that we use regular e-mail to [email="Treasury@MagicDuel.com"]Treasury@MagicDuel.com[/email], as this opens up all sorts of RL personal abuse issues.

[Phantom Orchid]

But then I ask and my quest gets sponsored by the TKs...

There was never an issue of "I would reject this immediately on the grounds that I do not want people asking me to sponsor their quests." In fact, it was the opposite. Mine was sponsored, no statements or questions asked.

So tell us Seig, why the discrepancy?

Edited December 6, 2011 by Phantom Orchid

[Passant the Weak]

Small clarification. I usually don't ask for sponsorship in my events.
I did this time after receiving the message Fyrd is mentioning (and because we had a problem with prize distribution).

I guess I will go back to my usual way of doing things.
I probably have not understood what Treasure Keepers are. And will not understand much better after receiving such e-mails.

[Seigheart]

Phantom, you suggested that I look into your quest.

Passant specifically asked for a certain reward.

I DO NOT WANT PEOPLE ASKING FOR ANYTHING

You may point out a quest, by all means. Please.

But when you start telling me what rewards you want, and all that nonsense, I will not want to sponsor it.

Edit:

What you have to understand is I get anywhere between 5-10 emails a day from people demanding that I sponsor their quests now. 90% of which don't even have the quests up and running. They want the sponsorship before they have even announced the quest.

Then I get the constant IG and Forum PMs for TK Issues.

The email was created so that I may respond faster than IG/Forum because I do not have access to both all the time. Where as Email I can respond to through my Blackberry at any given moment.

I apologize for the abruptness and the unclarity, things will improve over time once every gets an idea of how the TKs work.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Seigheart

[Pipstickz]

Seig, last time I checked, it was your job to help people, not their job to conform to your ideal situation. If somebody is not comfortable with using the email because of the Council's new thing, that's their personal choice and you should respect it, even if it takes you a bit longer to answer them. As for someone asking for a specific thing, I don't see why you can't simply ignore their suggestions if it's an extreme case, and if it's sensible, then you should be able to take their suggestion into consideration. You may not like it, but it's not your job to like it, and it's not like you're volunteering.

Though, I don't know why I'm even trying, because I know you'll just try to argue with me.

[Fyrd Argentus]

Seig, that is absurd. If I can't ask for a wp code, what is the point?

Also, the initial posting of a contest needs to include what the rewards are going to be. Sponsors SHOULD be found before the contest is announced.

[Seigheart]

Yes, you're right, feel free to SUGGEST rewards.

And again, you're right. But the TKs are not here to sponsor every quest and event. If it is a lousy event/quest, we're not going to sponsor it.

Btw; Do not confuse lousy, and simple. There is a difference.

[Curiose]

Figures you'd burn things to the ground.

Figures that you would upset people.

Figures that you would complicate things and only deem things 'worthy.'

Figures that power would go to your head.

Figures that you truly don't want to help people, and do not realize the role of sponsorship.

Fyrd, I think I have some old WP codes for you. I will sponsor.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Curiose

[Muratus del Mur]

curiose, those codes better not be from the times you were leading the tk..that would put fyrd in a very unpleasant situation when i will be confiscating them.

[Fyrd Argentus]

I have no "codes". I have 19 wp's in "committed" pile to be assigned. These were committed/cashed-in per the public request/announcement when the TK leadership changed.

About half were given me by Curiose as a direct request by you, Mur, shortly after the heat-vein creation. The other half were given me by Lifeline shortly before his retirement, to continue sponsoring my quests.

I personally have ample rewards for my own quests (Thank you!). This thread began in reference to the meeting Seig held regarding TK sponsorship, and the aftermath.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Fyrd Argentus

[Seigheart]

Because, you know, the TKs have been burned to the ground, that we don't do anything. That I have all this "power" that went to my head.

Of course I would upset people. They aren't getting everything they wanted. Sorry, but that's life. I have to keep a check of balances here.

Yes, I deem quests worthy or not. I can't just go sponsoring absolutely anything someone claims is a quest. That's just ridiculous.

You clearly put a lot of thought into your post Cury.

And claiming that I've burned down the TKs. Well, considering that you effectively put me in charge of the TKs when you had your hissy fit, what does that say about you?

[Passant the Weak]

I would like to come back to the original topic if people don't mind. Sorry, long post ahead, but I want to state what I have in mind. seighearty, please take time to read entirely, its' not polemist at all.

This is the experience of a n00b quest maker, aka myself. I have been trying to take a role in the Legend Speakers that is to provide more information to the community and specifically give access to younger players to information or other things ingame that are usually not that accessible. I do it on my own way, slowly but with a stubborn mind. Previous examples are Article in "People in the News" on game mechanics, free glass distribution for Halloween, and recently my first quest to make people aware of some happening in the realm (Eon's murder). I have other articles pending, but hush, you will see.

As a n00b I do nothing but my best, by taking guidance from ancients (Thank you Fyrd) and reading thoroughly all annoucements that are made by the Demon. I am also normally in a state of mind that prevent me to ask for anything.

For my quest I kept in mind 2 annoucements/posts made by Mur.

First one says that Kings should have been more active in tracking quests/events/good actors and distribute rewards without waiting for people request.
[log=How King should have distributed rewards]It is one thing to wait for people to ask you for things to reward, and totally different thing to go out and give wp codes as sponsorships for creative quests you , as a king, see.

New players or shy players, will never go and ask anyone to sponsor them.
I tried to give you an example through the things i rewarded and the way i rewarded them.
I even allowed Treasure Keepers to go wilder than they should have to sponsor quests more and more.

Not to mention, as king/queen, it would have been so fun to spread rewards like santa to your citizens.


I don't say none did so, i say if you did it you did it few times and on very rare occasions, not by far enough to motivate people to come with creative activities to get sponsored.

[/log]

Next one says the Treasure Keepers are taking over that role now that Kings are no more.
[log=TK rewards annoucement]Treasure Keepers take over kings rewarding responsabilities
Until further updates regarding land leadership / king roles / land treasury and rewards stock, the Treasure Keepers will assume the role of actively sponsor and support quest creators, events and anything reward-able for all inhabitants of the realm, with or without citizenship. The TK will not reward anyone directly (except events organized by the TK), instead they will provide sponsorship and additional rewards stock for the organizers if they think the event/quest is worthy of any sponsorship. Please do not organize anything based solely on TK rewards without providing first of all your own rewards to the participants. The TK will do for now what the kings were supposed to do with their rewards stock. Things the tk have in their power to give: wishpoint codes, rare and very rare creatures, premium creatures, credits. For the start all sponsorships will be discussed by the TK, represented by Seigheart, with me, to make sure their reasoning is flawless. However the TK decisions to sponsor or not sponsor an event or quest are subjective and are intended to remain so. [/log]

Based on those annoucements I assumed I should not ask any sponsoring and I launched my quest setting as prize what I could afford. I have been extremely pleased (and surprised in a good way) to see that indivual (let's say regular players) have jumped and offered spontaneously to sponsor my quest in a better way than what I was able to offer.

When we came to the final stage, we faced a problem by not being able to discriminate 2 winners and we looked for ways to reward them both. Please note that I had not heard of Treasure Keepers at that time.
Coincidence, precisely at that time, you, Seigheart asked specifically my alliance leader (Fyrd) to tell his members to come to you for sponsorship of quests we make. This is not what I had understood from Mur posts, but well... I probably don't talk the Mur language fluently, so I did so.

Now comes a flow of instructions, precisions, even incoherences in the way we are supposed to ask Treasure Keepers: using e-mail (which I did reluctantly as I usually avoid any connections to me going off game), then I discover we shall not ask for a specific reward (fair enough, but my case was clear, and I needed a specific reward), then we are told we shall not ask for sponsorship but ask for Treasure Keepers to look into our quest (someone will have to explain the difference to me one day)....

My conclusion: all that is way too complicated, and will discourage more n00bs like me to do anything. So please allow me to make some suggestions.
[list=1]
[*][b]Chose your path: do you want to receive requests or not?[/b]
Either you do what mur seem to want: you look into events and decide yourself what you want to encourage/sponsor. In that case refuse any request for sponsorship.
That is the way I would personnally prefer as it would make the role of TK original and clear. Also you have an alliance now with quite a few members in: you are enough IMO to be able to follow alla annoucements made about quests and events.
Now as Fyrd said that creates problem to Quest makers as they can't be sure what reward they will propose... but IMO it is not big deal if TKs are reactive enough.
[*][b]Don't be so picky with requests form![/b]
If you chose to allow requests, then don't put those strict rules! Is that so important if people ask a specific reward? Who forces you to accept their request? Why make polemist answers, generate conrtoversy? Just make your decision, and state it: it is your right, it is your role! And the decidion can be "Yes I will sponsor with what you ask", "Yes I will sponsor but this is what you will get", "No i won't sponsor". Mur sauid that it would be subjective and of course it will be. But please don't turn into an Administration asking to fill up form #1234Brev03 or the request will be rejected!
[/list]
That's all folks! Congratulations to anyone who read my entire post!

Edited December 7, 2011 by Passant the Weak

[Muratus del Mur]

i am not aware to what methods tk uses to make things more organized , like the form you are talking about. Reading requests is very time consuming and VERY deceiving. People , with their best intentions, have no clue of what to ask or what their quest value really is, neither does the tk, but they need to anticipate that value. The value of a quests means the level of fun and the right feeling it gives to the people attending it.

i sponsor people, TK sponsors quests. It can't be anyway else, sadly. I cant ask anyone to sponsor people , that would be just wrong, thats something only me should do in md. I would sponsor you, because you show potential. ..and i did if i rememebr right for the "free glass distribution for Halloween".
(well that was a gift because that wasn't a quest either)

You do a lot of fuss for nothing , Passant the weak, for a "noob" quest maker i will worry if your arguing skills will grow proportionally with your questmaker skills. A quest maker gains reputation...its not a skill its not a series of points, its how others see you. If you keep doing interesting things, you will be more and more respected and your quests will be attended by more people with more enthusiasm.


After i will talk with him regarding why "who killed eon" was not sponsored, i will know more. tk is still trying to find ways to adapt to my demands. forms, rules...anything to make it less subjective exaclty because everyone complains or stands at a queue to complain next. Its seigheart afterall, the ex convict, you must complain about something or you won't feel right.

I guess with the kings doing nothing it was far better than with someone actually starting to do something..

[Passant the Weak]

You got me wrong here Mur.

Wether Seigh will sponsor my quest or not is not the issue (he has not made his decision yet). It is his decision, and no problem with that whatever it is.

I was posting suggestions to make his job less difficult for himself and for the community. You gave him a role that was supposed to be handled by 4 Kings... It's a huge task.

And yes, it generates a lot of requests... that's why I suggested other way to fulfill his role. Read again my suugestion 1 please.

[Fyrd Argentus]

Passant is in the pinch point here because he did what I told him to do, which is what I thought Seig told me to tell my people.

The totally surprising response he got, and then asked me about, is why I started this thread.

I applaud Passant for trying to clear the smoke. Unfortunately the smoke is really tar and the more you wave around, the more sticks to you.

I think we got clarification on TK policies -- identify quests needing rewards but don't suggest what those rewards might be.

That should end this thread.

[Seigheart]

Umm, I did choose to sponsor the Who Killed Eon quest? O.o Long before this whole thread popped up.

[Fyrd Argentus]

Umm, confuse us some more Seig. See the note Passant got (top of thread)?

[I see your conditional offer to sponsor 3.5 hr AFTER this thread was started. Was there something else I missed?]

Edited December 8, 2011 by Fyrd Argentus

[Seigheart]

I wanted to make sure that the submissions were as good as he claimed. And I didn't see this thread till after i posted that.