Socially Accepted Resource Depletion

[Tal]

that would only apply to leaders or official ambassadors. Which the majority of players are not.
And even they can be declared not welcome and persecuted.

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Tal' timestamp='1325893767' post='100193']
and that is the problem. You should be able to punish those who are inside your land if they break the law, regardles if they are citizens or not. If you break it and can get out of the land, your free, but when you go back in you would be a fugitive in that land risking punishment.
[/quote]
So when you take a step into GG and they jail you for not worshiping a GG protector, how do you react? If you fight in a war against anybody and they jail you the minute you step into their land for being an enemy, what do you do? Land laws are land laws for a reason, they only apply to the citizens of the land that they were made for, and that is how it should be. If you really want to punish people for breaking laws that they never agreed to follow, then be my guest, I'd like to see you try.

[Chewett]

It would be credibly amusing say if a MB monarch made a land law that meant you had to donate silver if you wanted to come into MB if you were from another land. Becuase then although its a land law, you are forcing people to abide by then. And thusly if they broke it, banny banny banny.

It makes sense not making land laws apply retrospectively since then if a citizen from another land is causing a problem, you talk with their leader and ask them to make them stop or something.

If they have no land, then you cant do too much but then they also have the disadvantages of not being in a main land. However as of late, you have the needle, you have the heat vein items. I would be surprised if a monarch couldnt raise an army of 5 or 6 to push and hurt some of these "abusive" people on your land. Espically since you would have a land bonus, wheras they wouldnt and would "likely" be hampered by viscosity.

[Grido]

Nice, -3 rep on the diplomatic immunity post

I said "consider it" diplomatic immunity. That is the closest association that can be met, not that it is that. And yes they can be declared not welcome and persecuted, but they wouldn't get put in jail for it, they'd get asked (forcibly) to leave the country, we have needles, which would have the same effect.
I'm not saying you should be exempt from the laws on the land you're in, I'm just saying how it is.

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

I agree with Tal on what they are saying about land laws.

The examples given against so far I don't see how they negate what Tal is saying?
- Citizen specific rules can be worded in citizen specific ways
- If someone from a country you are at war with is in your land then...yea they should go to jail...whats the problem there? Its a war.
- Financial gain for land entry could be proposed, would be up to the citizens (and the rest of the community I would imagine in this instance) to argue if its right or not - but what about other things? Fees for dealing with resources? See that would make sense to me.

Of course this may all be irrelivant because currently there are no monarchs...will/do land laws even still apply?

The point is that if the land laws only apply to the land citizens then any of the laws regarding the land itself and how it gets used/abused become irrelivant as 75% of the quad-land related population can totally ignore them (let alone all the other folk), so there is little point in having them at all, and then those laws are not there to protect the land but only to handcuff it's own citizens.

Z

Edited January 7, 2012 by (Zl-eye-f)-nea

[Mya Celestia]

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]When the herbs were first put in action, the lands were asked not to put any rules on them because of testing and such. Unless I missed it (which is possible), this hasn't changed. That could be why there wasn't any action taken.[/font][/color]

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]Just a thought[/font][/color]

[phantasm]

actually, the rules the Tribunal citizens have put on the herbs were only to keep them from being completly depleted. What was asked was that we not put any restrictions or rules that only certain people could farm at certain times. To my knowledge the Tribunal is the only land that the citzens as a conglometrate, which was before Eon took over SoS and kicked them all out, that agreed ona set number of farming for each zone. This rule still applies, and with the new update we are better informed on who is depleting resources.

There are always those like Eon who do not respect or care about any rule or regulations made. Without the ability to enforce them, as no land now has since there is no such thing as rulers anymore, such people will constantly be a exception. While rules made to keep people out, or for only certain criteria of people are against policy, rules to keep any and all resources available are never wrong.

*edit* [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10940-herbs/"]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10940-herbs/[/url] added so that it can be directly linked to

Edited January 7, 2012 by phantasm

[duxie]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]sorry, but this is a total nonsense to compare the lands on resource depletion matter... everyone and each knows that to reach the first grass in the Tribunal it takes a few days without being a citizen or spending additional resources. for most it takes twice to get out... [/font][/size][font=verdana, geneva, sans-serif][size=3]since the first day the citizenship was introduced as an additional factor to viscosity, only the most naive people could not notice where is this leading to. i've mentioned that for a few times, but i guess it's not important enough to change the status quo.[/size][/font]


[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]it's not so hard to compare... it should be pretty fair to split this whole matter into two sides: NML/MB/LR and GG/NV/EL. while the first part is totally abused by anyone who has at least a tiny wish to get some resources, the other one is pretty safe and can take the total control over own resources with almost none effort. till/if any non citizen manages to get to the first resource of the secondly mentioned lands - everything might be already "controlled" by the citizens.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]politics? land rules? punishment aimed to the non land citizens? oh well... who would need that from the second group when you can't punish anyone just because none can mean any threat to you? none can simply enter the land in time? while you can freely roam the lands of the first group... it reminds me the RL situation of pretty recent events on the resource gathering in some first sort of the lands of the RL world...[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]i hope i don't need to explain that resources = money, and money = power; so, let me ask where is this leading to in the long run?[/font][/size]

Edited January 8, 2012 by duxie

[Pipstickz]

The only ones who I saw making actual large amounts of money off of resources were the ones who got memory stone detectors (LW, Aranna and xrieg). Has anyone else made more than a few gold off of resources that I'm unaware of? Also, I said [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10940-herbs/"]here[/url] to contact me if you want herbs and the Tribunal has been harvested, nobody even bothered to ask about it.

Also, don't quote me on this, but I'm fairly sure that GG and Necro don't have much resources to speak of. There's mineral water in Necro, and that's all I know of.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Pipstickz

[Dragual]

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1325917738' post='100217']
So when you take a step into GG and they jail you for not worshiping a GG protector, how do you react? If you fight in a war against anybody and they jail you the minute you step into their land for being an enemy, what do you do? Land laws are land laws for a reason, they only apply to the citizens of the land that they were made for, and that is how it should be. If you really want to punish people for breaking laws that they never agreed to follow, then be my guest, I'd like to see you try.
[/quote]

Yes, actually. If we use RL examples, look at all the countries in the past with religious persecution. It should be up to the land if they want to choose to do that or not. And yes, during war time, if the enemy walks into your land and starts taking your resources, they should be jailed. Would you just let them walk on by? Wave even? Land laws should apply to the land, not the citizens.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1325994996' post='100261']
Also, don't quote me on this, but I'm fairly sure that GG and Necro don't have much resources to speak of. There's mineral water in Necro, and that's all I know of.
[/quote]

GG has been making money off the shared items they they "graciously" sell to you to collect resources.

[Shadowseeker]

Just like dowsers or woodcutters sell their resources. (Dowsers getting undermined heavily though)

I'd really like to see the land vault from the different lands finally done as promised, with each land having their respective set of tools: My guess is Mur either forgot or wants to test how differently they are governed. As it is however, Golemus has the tools that are "worth" more, with other lands being promised but not receiving.

Tools can be grouped into: Restricted to land (with few exceptions), no restrictions, restricted by location.

If we go by that...land, or the exceptions sometimes still deplete or break land rules, no restriction means complete depletion usually, while location allows governing better but is also imperfect (theoretically a renegade could mess it up badly). Then there is the case where independent is actually better than shared (sand melters), which really makes me think Mur was testing and watching results and then forgot.