Regarding Illusions and influencing lands

[Prince Marvolo]

Lately, some thoughts struck my mind regarding Illusions:


There are illusions that are able to influence a land is ways that are going very deep.
My personal thought is, that they may want to get reviewed, because of this.



[u]First example (Summon tag spell):[/u]
Mur: “[i]My intention is to make it a shared item BUT make special shared items that can be grabed only based on land loyalty[/i]”

Right now, there are illusions that are able to give the illusionist land loyalty. And I fear it might lead to having someone who is not loyal to a land grab the shared item, and ruin the purpose of it.


[u]Second example:[/u]
Dst now has a tag called “gatekeeper of Necrovion” and has been opening the Howling Gates. Gates that are semi-closed for a reason. And the illusion is kind of screwing with that idea.
Not to mention that newbies get trapped in there, and have no AP to leave.*


[u]Third example:[/u]
[i]I want to say first that I have no proof of this incident, and that it happened a long time ago.[/i]
[i]Please do not start arguing about the incident itself, it's about the idea behind it.[/i]

The essence of the incident was that someone had the Loreroot Soldier Illusion on, and was talking not so nicely about Loreroot and its inhabitants.
This illusion makes one look as an ambassador for a land. When it does speak badly/rude towards the land and its citizens, I feel there is something that does not fit well.
This may not look like a big point, but it may cause confusion towards people who do not know of the Illusions, and think the Loreroot Soldier is an actual ambassador for said land.



Again, this is my personal opinion, and I’d like to get feedback on this.

* edit

Edited January 19, 2012 by Prince Marvolo

[Chewett]

I would agree and feel these illusions should be removed.

[Prince Marvolo]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1326976890' post='101178']
Gatekeeper of Necrovion is not an ally illusion. Is a simple tag that comes along with a spell.[/quote]

Did I ever mention it was an Ally illusion? It's the fact that it makes you mess with a land, and those who enter it


[quote name='dst' timestamp='1326976890' post='101178']Please remove the 3rd reason if you have no proof. Don't drag my name into mud based on a rumor.[/quote]
I edited it, to what it should have been. My apologises.


[quote name='dst' timestamp='1326976890' post='101178']Land loyalty gained on the illusion - for me it was pure coincidence. I simply forgot to exit the illusion. I have no desire to gain such loyalties. Besides, how much loyalty can I gain compared to the ones that have been citizens for years? So I see no reason to disable it.[/quote]

but what if someone DOES get the urge to do it? I have no doubt it could lead to... implications.

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1326976890' post='101178']
Yes, if the illusions become something public, they can be altered. But as long as only 4 or 5 people have it I don't think there is a good enough reason to disable them.
[/quote]

4 or 5 people can make a mess with it, I do not wish to insult anyone who has the illusions, or want to claim I distrust them, but looking at the aboce stated reasons, I believe there IS enough reason to disable them

[Grido]

I use the TW illusion to gain Necrovion loyalty points. Before I started doing this I gained permission from Azull (the then leader of TW alliance) and Yrth (My then, and kinda still, king) I have since also gained permission from Peace who has also been leader during the period since I started. I have just noticed redneck is loyalty leader of the alliance, so I will determine more about the leadership of it before I use the illusion again, and if neccessary seek further permissions. If the permissions are removed at any point, I will stop.

Since I am gaining persmission from the leadership of the alliance (and I would ask the king as well if there was one) before using the illusion, I see little reason against my using it.

Is your issue against the illusions being accessible, or rather against dst having/using them? I see no complaints against other people with them.

[Prince Marvolo]

I did not make this topic as a fight against dst.
Neither is it about all of the Illusions. It is about the fact that they can influence/mess with lands, and roles related to lands.

It's good you asked and recieved permission, Grido.
But if one does not get permission, and still uses it, what is the right of that person to be something/ having a role that is so powerful?

[Shemhazaj]

[quote]Yes, if the illusions become something public, they can be altered. But as long as only 4 or 5 people have it I don't think there is a good enough reason to disable them.[/quote]

[i][color=#808080]I like your reasoning dst. I'd like to see it used in RL court.[/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080]"If guns become public they can be banned, but as long as only 4 or 5 people are shooting them on the street I don't think is a good enough reason to change that."[/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080][/color][/i]

[Kyphis the Bard]

I think that the illusions do have a role, and should not be removed.

However I definetly think that the gaining of land loyalty should not be tied to the illusions. Your land loyalty should be about who you really are, not who you pretend to be.
An Illusion is not mean't to be perfect. There should be ways to tell who is actually behind the illusion. There certainly are a lot of them already, but with the gaining of foreign land loyalty it makes passing as a spy too easy.

I do not think that the gaining of land loyalty by pretending to be part of a land makes sense. Illusions should just mask your citizenship, not temporarily change it.

[Liberty4life]

[quote name='Shemhazaj' timestamp='1326987372' post='101218']

[i][color=#808080]I like your reasoning dst. I'd like to see it used in RL court.[/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080]"If guns become public they can be banned, but as long as only 4 or 5 people are shooting them on the street I don't think is a good enough reason to change that."[/color][/i]
[i][color=#808080] [/color][/i]
[/quote]

if those 4 or 5 ppl carrying guns is police, now now now...

i think that current ppl having this kind of power know the consequences of missusing it, afterall every single one who has it had much much much greater power at their disposal, and imo changing it atm is unnecesearly while there are plenty of other thingy that require current attention

[No one]

In my opinion, Marv is envious.

Illusions are ... unstable features. Those that have them got them for some reason and they accepted them at their own risk (to lose stats / creatures and so on).

There are very few ppl having illusions and they all take good care on how they use it (as I know of) and they did behaved (unlike other so called leaders).
Many bugs have been fixed on illusions so they deserve to keep them as they are until they are made public.

These illusions are their reward and not a single person (except the one that awarded them this right ) should question their right to keep them and use them.

The illusions exist for a very long time now but only "recently" it happened that it bothers ppl. ( This is quite obvious if you remember the "recent" events ).


[quote name='Prince Marvolo' timestamp='1326974774' post='101172']
Lately, some thoughts struck my mind regarding Illusions:

There are illusions that are able to influence a land is ways that are going very deep.
My personal thought is, that they may want to get reviewed, because of this.
...
Right now, there are illusions that are able to give the illusionist land loyalty. And I fear it might lead to having someone who is not loyal to a land grab the shared item, and ruin the purpose of it.
[/quote]
I think that there are ppl that do much worse without having illusions and within their own lands.
[spoiler]
- for abuse see recent issue with water handlers ;
- see s_x scandals for morality and behavior and then some are awarded ;
- for betrayal of their own alliance just look at the recent event ;
- for "game destroyers" look at those that sell creatures to low lvl players, to those that spoil the quests, to those that abuse for their own interest, to GGG-ers

and so many other

Please excuse me for pointing fingers, it is not my intention to point the persons but the actions, but these are the first that came to my mind. If you want, you can share some other example to add to the list.
[/spoiler]
[quote name='Prince Marvolo' timestamp='1326974774' post='101172']
The essence of the incident was that someone had the Loreroot Soldier Illusion on, and was talking not so nicely about Loreroot and its inhabitants.
...
Again, this is my personal opinion, and I’d like to get feedback on this.
[/quote]
I agree that you don't like it when it is coming from outside. But why you blame others ?
Pornography is not nice, and it is not done with illusions and it is not a rumor and[i] it started in Loreroot.[/i]


But look closer to you there are a lot of other defects and wrong doings that are worse then what these great people that use these illusions are doing.
I don't think that any one of them used these illusions without a purpose within their role (yes, even dst must have a reason for opening necro, did you bother asking ?)

[quote name='Prince Marvolo' timestamp='1326979297' post='101187']
but what if someone DOES get the urge to do it? I have no doubt it could lead to... implications.
...
4 or 5 people can make a mess with it, I do not wish to insult anyone who has the illusions, or want to claim I distrust them, but looking at the aboce stated reasons, I believe there IS enough reason to disable them
[/quote]
There are less then 4 in TK. There are few water dowsers, few woodcutters, few fusioneers and few in other groups that have special treatment and they do abuse and they do make a mess. It is not something that it might be possible is was proven it is certain. Do disband them too. Please lets start it.
Then lets move the items that are held by few (those shared to only a few withing certain alliances /lands) to general share.

But nooo, some ppl have their fingers into those and therefor those cases are something else. THEY ARE NOT. They have been give some gifts and not even by name to all of them. Not all the ppl that have access to these gifts deserve them. Please start disbanding them too.

[Shemhazaj]

[quote][color="#CCCCCC"]Ann. 2180 - [2012-01-22 00:44:11 - Stage 11][/color]
A number of fixes have been made to illusions:
Alliance loyalty was not taken into account but now gets recorded.
Illusions can no longer gain land loyalty because the land cannot 'recognize' them.
The magic page now also displays the links to illusions correctly.[/quote]

[color=#808080][i]case closed[/i][/color]