cool down for spells

[Chewett]

You want me to be active, yet you get all hysterical if i talk to anyone and think i offer favors...how cool is that... Then i shall remain active in a silent way and deal with everything in an impersonal way...even if my skill was to d stuff in a very personal way, but you miss to remember or discover that anymore.

 

You dont read posts Mur, you never do, you get a jist and reply. Its sad because this is just going from one side to entirely the other side. Are you looking for a reason to leave MD? Seriously? This action is just a kneejerk one and is stupid again.

[DARK DEMON]

Putting a cooldown on spells is not "dedicated" to DD or to a certain type of spells either. It is aimed to cooldown certain type of spellcasters.

Sooorrryyy for putting dd name in the anouncement, i only thought it fair to give a second chance to his quest. Since i won't punish people using their spells, that was the only thing i could do.

 

The truth is that if there wasn't for the massive hate for people that talk to me, dd would have gotten his citizenship a long time ago for other reasons (research discoveries) other than this sharade of things to do for the lab.

 

 

You want me to be active, yet you get all hysterical if i talk to anyone and think i offer favors...how cool is that... Then i shall remain active in a silent way and deal with everything in an impersonal way...even if my skill was to d stuff in a very personal way, but you miss to remember or discover that anymore.

 

As far as dd is concerned, i shall stop any discussion with him, just so. so dd pls don't write me anything, if you or anyone else has something to tell me, please do so in a public post.

Thanks

 

Two things.

 

1) This allows me to use any spell in any possible way to whoever I wish, without considering how greatly it may harm the game?

2) If I didn't approach and discuss that Laby research with you... who else? How can one get non-community things done in this game without some authority figure or the other who makes decisions (which if made publicly, would result in outbursts, because there would ALWAYS be some people who disagree). This even refers to you appointing the judges, the kings, even Chew as the coder. If people don't want that from you, what do they want really?

Edit: I think I should say something here; I really feel I should.

 

Mur didn't give me citizenship precisely because he didn't want me to become the Fang. He wanted to make this an example of how to get "solo-roles" in the future (aka non-land roles). But you people really restrict him to nothingness; you don't give him motivation to be active. Don't forget he's a human being too.

Edited November 5, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[No one]

The truth is that if there wasn't for the massive hate for people that talk to me, dd would have gotten his citizenship a long time ago for other reasons (research discoveries) other than this sharade of things to do for the lab.

 

This is BS (yea, bull$%^&), DD has shown clear signs of being incoherent in time. Check his topics, top to bottom.

 

Even his closer friends dislike him for changing so damn fast. If you want to give him something, then do it without arguments as there are none, there is no excuse for beggars.

 

 

You want me to be active, yet you get all hysterical if i talk to anyone and think i offer favors...how cool is that... Then i shall remain active in a silent way and deal with everything in an impersonal way...even if my skill was to d stuff in a very personal way, but you miss to remember or discover that anymore.

 

All I ask, and I think that most of the ppl agree is to keep it separated : work is work , game is game.

You judge and play judge on everybody for abusing their power but you are allowed.

You said it once that you'd quit answering to personal requests and I think that was said that ppl would get punished for coming to you with requests. Yet we don't see anything  like that.

 

 

He complained for HE (alone) gets bullied and that HE wants protection and that HE  HE HE HE always about him and you hear him / them. But you don't ask about the truth.

When I (yes I, I , I) requested you to do something for the good of the others, you refused and messed up the interface ... remember that you fixed one week for that bs right-click-protect feature ? (oh, I remembered you about this as I found the other day something about this  )

And there are many things that you choose not to do in order to work on personal requests.

 

C'mon you love lost causes.

And for your information there are 3 sides of a story : my way, your way and the real thing. So you should ask your Council. That is Council's and Chewett's job to help you get a clear picture.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Grido
no swearing please

[DARK DEMON]

This is BS (yea, bullshit), DD has shown clear signs of being incoherent in time. Check his topics, top to bottom.

 

Even his closer friends dislike him for changing so damn fast. If you want to give him something, then do it without arguments as there are none, there is no excuse for beggars.

 

 

All I ask, and I think that most of the ppl agree is to keep it separated : work is work , game is game.

You judge and play judge on everybody for abusing their power but you are allowed.

You said it once that you'd quit answering to personal requests and I think that was said that ppl would get punished for coming to you with requests. Yet we don't see anything  like that.

 

 

He complained for HE (alone) gets bullied and that HE wants protection and that HE  HE HE HE always about him and you hear him / them. But you don't ask about the truth.

When I (yes I, I , I) requested you to do something for the good of the others, you refused and fucked up the interface ... remember that you fixed one week for that bs right-click-protect feature ? (oh, I remembered you about this as I found the other day something about this  )

And there are many things that you choose not to do in order to work on personal requests.

 

C'mon you love lost causes.

And for your information there are 3 sides of a story : my way, your way and the real thing. So you should ask your Council. That is Council's and Chewett's job to help you get a clear picture.

 

You're blind, rude, and totally pissed at me presumably for my report against dst. You know NOTHING at all and are just speaking on assumptions, and I'm ashamed to ever thought of you to be a respectable person and someone I could seek help from.

[Aeoshattr]

I agree with Chewett, DD should not have been singled out like this. Though I can appreciate the intention behind it, it has made him more of a target to others who do not like him personally and not really dealt with the underlying issue.

 

I also agree wholeheartedly with Eara's points. However, silvertongue is easy to ignore.. an MDer being teleported halfway across the realm when they have neither the AP nor the power to return quickly when they simply want to take part in a quest is not. Especially if the action is done repeatedly, for the simple amusement of the caster.

 

It would have been good to open it up to public debate but I suspect that would have descended into the childish bickering we can see on the current thread.

This.

Ailith says it clearly and in nice words, IMO.

 

Yes, it is now likely that DD will get a lot more negative attention than he actually deserves.

 

As for this point, which was made in this thread by multiple people (thus I won't quote) - "why did you go to Mur?": I don't see anything wrong with him reporting this to Mur. If the option is available, why shouldn't he use it? 

 

TL;DR - I think the cooldown option is a good, decent one for both sides. 

[No one]

Are you really that dumb DD ?

[spoiler]

 

Two things.

 

1) This allows me to use any spell in any possible way to whoever I wish, without considering how greatly it may harm the game?

2) If I didn't approach and discuss that Laby research with you... who else? How can one get non-community things done in this game without some authority figure or the other who makes decisions (which if made publicly, would result in outbursts, because there would ALWAYS be some people who disagree). This even refers to you appointing the judges, the kings, even Chew as the coder. If people don't want that from you, what do they want really?

Edit: I think I should say something here; I really feel I should.

 

Mur didn't give me citizenship precisely because he didn't want me to become the Fang. He wanted to make this an example of how to get "solo-roles" in the future (aka non-land roles). But you people really restrict him to nothingness; you don't give him motivation to be active. Don't forget he's a human being too.

[/spoiler]

1. Yes, since spell creation you are allowed to use them for whatever reason you want as long as it fits the requirements (see PO and the dreaming: she abused the spell when she started using the dreams as punishment)

2. You are a nobody [with no authority like most of us] and you are not allowed to make decisions for MD; that is why there are higher authorities.

If you want to take a role in making decisions, get into the people council (or whatever its name was). Then you can try to do smth.

Or, expose it to public , on forum, as the rest of us do, even "kings and Chew as a coder".

 

And NO, Mur didn't gave you citizenship because he would have forced the Council to something nasty as to revoke that. (but you are too ... ... to understand that)

 

And the difference between you and me, DD, is that even if we both understand he's just human, you go to him with complains and requests while I try to keep him away from interruption and to filter the requests toward him.

While YOU see only MD and how great it is , I see MD growing old and obsolete. There is little or no progress in MD in terms of coding (just look at the creature page). MD is dieing not because of ppl or features it is because IT CANNOT ADAPT because ppl like you keep stalling it with junk requests.

 

 

 

You're blind, rude, and totally pissed at me presumably for my report against dst. You know NOTHING at all and are just speaking on assumptions, and I'm ashamed to ever thought of you to be a respectable person and someone I could seek help from.

Ha, yes, I am rude and totally pissed but just because you don't see what are you doing.  I don't give a f^&*( on your report as whatever you wrote in it it is wrong.

How I know it ? because like I said to you even in private before, even if you have a great idea, you are screwing with the way you expose it.

And except from that, I know for sure that Dst is innocent in this that.

I dare you again to sue her like all MDers should, to expose the issue to public to let them decide NOT YOU.

Edited November 5, 2014 by No one

[Burns]

Mod power abuse incoming: I'll hit the pause-button here, probably send a few PMs, and MAYBE unlock the thread in an hour.

 

The hour is through, pause is over. Try to keep it civilized.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Burns
pause ended

[Jubaris]

I was against the overpowered teleportation spells before, and I am now too, so this announcement is the step in right direction for me.

 

What I would like to see is that the teleportation spell casts be very valuable (because you have a few casts, because you have a huge cooldown, etc.) so that the caster needs to think good whether he will use it or not.

 

I would more look towards the way of the player to defend against teleportation spells by some spell wards or location-based wards, rather than attack at the very teleport spell (other than limiting it a bit like with this announcement).

 

Currently, MD doesn't have an interesting aspect of hiding and secluding, even though we have a lot of hard-to-get-to locations, because of the plentiful location and teleportation spells.

 

 

I always thought about motivations for choices in MD to be largely hypocritical, so the fact that DD being the reason of this announcement may be hypocritical doesn't bother me at all, I am used to this.

Objectively-wise, I think limiting teleportation spells is a good step, so I'll settle with that. Thumbs up Mur, don't let them get you :D 

[Eara Meraia]

just a short note to Ailith and Aeo. Silvertongue is easy to ignore, teleporting spells are easily countered with Jump to Labby link. Cmon guys. To every action there is a counteraction. Sometimes it requires more thought or change of initial plan.

[Aeoshattr]

just a short note to Ailith and Aeo. Silvertongue is easy to ignore, teleporting spells are easily countered with Jump to Labby link. Cmon guys. To every action there is a counteraction. Sometimes it requires more thought or change of initial plan.

 

100% correct and I agree with you wholeheartedly. If we were to speak generally and about "what should have been done" then yes. You are right.

 

However, there was no jump to labby link, so therefore in this specific case, it can be said that silvertongue could be ignored (such as in Iash's event) whereas in DD's case, the teleport spell was considerably more difficult to surmount. No, I'm not saying that not having a jump link up was good - there should have been one. But there wasn't, neither before the event started, nor after the interruption.

 

That's why I agree with Ailith. Referring specifically to how things were/happened, she is right. We could all hypothesize about what should have been done, but it's already done. We can't change it. That is how I read her post and why I support it. 

 

EDIT: I do think we're deviating from the purpose of this topic, so I won't delve on this. Felt the need to explain, for some reason.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Aeoshattr

[Guest]

No Eara. That is not an acceptable solution for me, sorry. Are you saying EVERY SINGLE quest gathering or meeting should organize a jump link in case Eon or dst decide to come along and teleport everyone away? Really? Is this what MD has come to?

 

People with powerful spells should use them responsibly. 

 

Community and quest groupings should be able to enjoy their quests/ meetings without having to have one eye on a jump link.

[dst]

People with powerful spells should use them responsibly. 

 

 

Please define the term.

[Jubaris]

just a short note to Ailith and Aeo. Silvertongue is easy to ignore, teleporting spells are easily countered with Jump to Labby link. Cmon guys. To every action there is a counteraction. Sometimes it requires more thought or change of initial plan.

 

Jump to Labby link is an admin support thing, the mentioned spells are player spells.

Admins have no problem providing help and ensuring an event happens undisturbed, but I don't think that's the point.

 

I don't get it why does Eon's "I'll mess up every quest I can" attitude finds a lot of sympathies here.

He should have an opportunity to do it, but his targets shouldn't have only three options as some suggested here, getting council protection, kissing ass to eon, paying for protection (this was the funniest one).

Balance the power system.

[Guest]

Please define the term.

 

 

If I have to define that term for someone who has so much power in this realm, then MD really is in trouble.

[No one]

I was against the overpowered teleportation spells before, and I am now too, so this announcement is the step in right direction for me.

 

This is not about restricting all players because of one being unable to handle the truth of life (and we are in games like WoW where smaller players are hunted).

This whole idea is about changes being done on request of just one person without the concern on the rest. (begging)

 

 

What I would like to see is that the teleportation spell casts be very valuable (because you have a few casts, because you have a huge cooldown, etc.) so that the caster needs to think good whether he will use it or not.

There are very few teleport spells; just that they are hold for a better time ... you you already said that.

OK, but then ... why do you restrict the players to use them when they want to use them ? isn't that the purpose of holding them for that long ?

 

 

I would more look towards the way of the player to defend against teleportation spells by some spell wards or location-based wards, rather than attack at the very teleport spell (other than limiting it a bit like with this announcement).

 

Currently, MD doesn't have an interesting aspect of hiding and secluding, even though we have a lot of hard-to-get-to locations, because of the plentiful location and teleportation spells.

Now .. you have no excuse. There are the "No jump" scene tags that protect the players being in them to be moved with spells. (but I think that "bring in" can override this too)

[dst]

 

 

If I have to define that term for someone who has so much power in this realm, then MD really is in trouble.

This is the diplomatic answer for of not wanting/ not being able to define the term.

 

MD was in trouble a long time ago and it was not me the reason for the troubles.

[Guest]

This is the diplomatic answer for of not wanting/ not being able to define the term.

 

MD was in trouble a long time ago and it was not me the reason for the troubles.

 

I can define the word very well. My point is.. can you?

 

 

With all the power you hold in MD, public or otherwise, as one of the citizens of MD I would like to hear YOUR definition of responsibility in this matter.

[No one]

[spoiler]

People with powerful spells should use them responsibly. 

 

Please define the term.

 

 

 

If I have to define that term for someone who has so much power in this realm, then MD really is in trouble.

[/spoiler]

Yes, Ailith, you have to define it because as seen today (from the announcements) we define it like :

The responsibility is for the strong players to suck-it-up and keep quiet and protect the smaller and "innocent" players that will in turn have the responsibility to complain and DEMAND for powers OVER the stronger players that earned their place & strength and knowledge.

 

In other words :

 - the players that earned the spell are now constraint to not use them when they need / want them

 - the players that PAYED for the spells are now not able to use them

 

So, Ailith, yes, please explain what you understand by  "people with powerful spells should use them responsibly." ( the spelling on this word is so darn tricky)

 

 

And I was worried that some player's behavior is keeping noobs running while the authority keep on trying to get them in game.

I am glad that I am wrong.

Edited November 5, 2014 by No one

[Jubaris]

@No one:

"No jump" scene tags are good indeed, but are rare and in 'specific' locations'. I'm not sure where are they all are, so far I've seen one in Necrovion, and maybe somewhere else, so sorry, will need an update for this one, in the meanwhile, I'll assume they are hard-to-get-to. How can I get into Necrovion?

If they are not hard to get to, then what's the point, someone can just walk towards you.

Furthermore, they are static, they are fixedly in places where they were assigned, what we want is a dynamic system (I guess). I (generally speaking, not me specifically) don't want to go to a place so I can't be disturbed, I want the a place where I am now not to be disturbed.

Some principles of both logic and magic are followed of course. If I am in an open location, I should be easily disturbed. If I am a Marind Bellian, and I'm trying to hide in Necrovion, a powerful Necrovion wizard should be able to easily get rid of me.

But if I am in a high-viscosity rarely visited location, that I happen to have high identity relations with (principle of transposition), why should you be able to transfer me to GoE while being anywhere in the realm against my will? (since you don't have to be in the same location to cast teleport to GoE, plus, you can cast it on array of targets. Doesn't sound OP, really??)

Edited November 5, 2014 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[No one]

:) did I said it isn't OP ? No. They indeed are.

Did I asked them for myself ? No.

Then why do I complain ? Because it is the start of constraining players.

Then why do I complain if it is not impacting me ? But it does, I have stones with spell like that and I want to use them whenever I may please so. But more then that it is bothering me because it is based on one's mood (DD's).

 

 

You complain that the "no jump" are not enough. I say : they are too many :) . Would you consider it funny to have someone locked in a location with high AP requirement zone with all areas marked by "no jump" ? So no, that will indeed be OP so I don't agree with spells given to players to do as they please.

 

But spending the night / week / month on a certain location because you set the "no jump" on it ... no, it just means that you are lazy. Move to the next location, if you are afraid of being summoned , as far into your land as you can and you should be safe. Also ... you can always logout (oh, I haven't heard this reason in a very long time).

[Jubaris]

While you are logged out you can get teleported, and abilities can be used on you (for instance kill items), by the way.

[DARK DEMON]

just a short note to Ailith and Aeo. Silvertongue is easy to ignore, teleporting spells are easily countered with Jump to Labby link. Cmon guys. To every action there is a counteraction. Sometimes it requires more thought or change of initial plan.

 

I don't think people know this that I was explicitly told that I was on my own when making these quests, because the more help I got, the less it would be a thing of my own, hence it was discouraged to ask for such help.

 

Yes, you could say it was mostly a test for me to see how I could manage quest-making for the Labyrinth on my own. And now Council agrees that there indeed need to be rules as to where to draw the line on "disrupting quests".

Edited November 5, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Eara Meraia]

No Eara. That is not an acceptable solution for me, sorry. Are you saying EVERY SINGLE quest gathering or meeting should organize a jump link in case Eon or dst decide to come along and teleport everyone away? Really? Is this what MD has come to?

 

People with powerful spells should use them responsibly. 

 

Community and quest groupings should be able to enjoy their quests/ meetings without having to have one eye on a jump link.

 

There are different quests Ailith. No every quest is prone to teleporting spells. I am just trying to say that if you know beforehands that your quest is vulnerable in this point, it is YOUR responsibility as a questor to take care, that it can be countered. If you make puzzles in quests that can be easily resolved through google - it is a bad organization imo, because if was up to you to take care that the answers arent to be found easily (unless it is intended). If you organize quest in the deep East it is YOUR responsibility to think how noobs get there and come back, if you organize quest in Necro it is YOUR responsibility to think what happens if people stuck at ToA, because YOU choose the place and you make the quest as it is. 

 

Remember last Nimrodels quest? People had to travel different lands there...she took care that all people could get there...different means - pickles, spells, portal etc.

 

What means are used to protecting your quest from failure - player means, admin means, coder means...how does it matter? Depends on what you can get. I have never heard anyone refused to "protect" the quest if they could and thought the quest was nice (correct me here if I am wrong).

 

I totally agree with dst that people can use their spells as they want, if those spells were earned otherwise you should be a dictator and punish everyone for everything. And in this case Eon and dst did something in game that coincides their role in this game and I would not expect anything else from them.

 

Constantly looking fault on somebody else and not in you is a sign of immaturity.

 

*****

 

EDIT: just saw DDs post. Well, it is something different if you were EXPLICITLY told NOT TO ask for help beforehands. If its the case, my words do not apply to that quest.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Eara Meraia

[Ackshan Bemunah]

[Ssv]

Edited November 12, 2014 by Ackshan Bemunah

[DARK DEMON]

If people seriously believe that there is no wrong way to use power, then I totally agree with Ailith, there's something TERRIBLY wrong.

 

I repeat, you all are making me use send to ToA the wrong way, don't complain when it actually happens. I've not been told a "no" by anybody so far, in fact I'm seeing repeatedly that spells can be used any way the owner likes, so I'm kind of certain that its indeed allowed; I won't take the blame.

Edited November 5, 2014 by DARK DEMON