Melt the prison gate!

[Muratus del Mur]

I was wondering... how much heat should someone need to melt the prison gate?

 

[DARK DEMON]

999*10n

 

where n = number of players in prison

Edited December 3, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Assira the Black]

4532x4

 

I have a reason for choosing those numbers.

[AmberRune]

Melting point of granite is about 1215–1260 °C, wrought iron about 1483-1593°C

0.22 celsius heat units would be about equal to 100 calories

 

So say if 0.22 celsius heat units basically equaled 0.22°C in temperature change (because I just glossed over this and have no idea if it actually is true), room temperature would be about 21°C so melting granite would require about 5631cal and wrought iron about 7145cal. On average we burn 100cal by walking leisurely for 18 minutes, which is 1080 seconds. Would mean walking 6082363 seconds for granite and 7717090 seconds for wrought iron.

 

Heat in MD depreciates at 1heat/second so 6,082,363 heat to hit the melting point of a granite prison gate and 7,717,090 heat for a wrought iron prison gate. And to hold it there for a while so more depending on how long it takes for it all to melt.

 

8-10 million heat seems like a decent ballpark

[No one]

I was wondering... how much heat should someone need to melt the prison gate?

 

That depends. Anything above 5k should be enough because:

 

 - you need heat items to gather & use heat - and there are no heat jars in prison (and should not be any)

 - unless you have Jail loyalty you don't get much heat (this should be checked)

 - the only way to get heat in jail is by fights - it requires at least 2 persons in same jail

 

So, if one could get out of jail with 5k heat stones ... he deserves to be a fugitive (meaning that he will return to jail when caught).

There are a few requirements :

  - no item transfer should be allowed in jail (maybe only the heat stones) because one could use friends outside to get the heat jars - read below for the heat jars.

 

If the heat jars are to be accepted for use in providing heat, there are the following issues:

  - if one has, by chance, a shared heat jar  and enough heat to fill it ... then the jar should leave possession (should return to gathering place) - there is still a chance to get one back once you get out of jail.

  - if one has, by chance, a non shared heat jar ... he should not be able to use it  - as when outside, the non-shared heat jar could get filled immediately making the prison useless

 

Last thing: each escape from prison should allow just one person out: the person who used the heat. (This will restrict mass jail breaks & outside help)

 

In short : 5K heat is enough (good for stone business), NO for heat jars, YES for heat stones, 1 person / 1 use / 1 melted gate, become fugitive.

Edited December 3, 2014 by No one

[DARK DEMON]

That depends. Anything above 5k should be enough because:

 

 - you need heat items to gather & use heat - and there are no heat jars in prison (and should not be any)

 - unless you have Jail loyalty you don't get much heat (this should be checked)

 - the only way to get heat in jail is by fights - it requires at least 2 persons in same jail

 

So, if one could get out of jail with 5k heat stones ... he deserves to be a fugitive (meaning that he will return to jail when caught).

There are a few requirements :

  - no item transfer should be allowed in jail (maybe only the heat stones) because one could use friends outside to get the heat jars - read below for the heat jars.

 

If the heat jars are to be accepted for use in providing heat, there are the following issues:

  - if one has, by chance, a shared heat jar  and enough heat to fill it ... then the jar should leave possession (should return to gathering place) - there is still a chance to get one back once you get out of jail.

  - if one has, by chance, a non shared heat jar ... he should not be able to use it  - as when outside, the non-shared heat jar could get filled immediately making the prison useless

 

Last thing: each escape from prison should allow just one person out: the person who used the heat. (This will restrict mass jail breaks & outside help)

 

In short : 5K heat is enough (good for stone business), NO for heat jars, YES for heat stones, 1 person / 1 use / 1 melted gate, become fugitive.

 

Lol, just 5 clicks on the orbs to get out of jail? Good luck to anyone trying to sell heat stones to anyone who has 5+ orbs for this.

 

 

Edit: Also, if each escape allows only one person out, then only make the first person to click the open melted gate to come out, whether or not he supplied any heat. Let any number of people contribute to supply heat, just like in a heat jar, and not individually separate. After one person comes out, the heat requirement must be met again for a second person to come out.

Edited December 3, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Myth]

 - the only way to get heat in jail is by fights - it requires at least 2 persons in same jail

 

I'm guessing that means one can also gain heat by upgrading creatures.

 

On that note, can you differentiate between heat gained through different means? e.g. moving around, erolins, saccing...

 

If yes, one could get out of jail through some huge personal sacrifice, such as a very old, very powerful, very used, very heated... very valueable creature; or more of them... or all of them, in case they're in a hurry to get out fast? Of course, this would imply some sacrifice mechanism to be implemented...

[No one]

 

Lol, just 5 clicks on the orbs to get out of jail?

Most gadgets that require heat in MD require the heat of an ITEM.

I said most because there is that MD script that doesn't use the items.

 

Anyway, I'd suggest you to read what I wrote, pay attention. At least the bold part. And then be constructive about it

[DARK DEMON]

Most gadgets that require heat in MD require the heat of an ITEM.

I said most because there is that MD script that doesn't use the items.

 

Anyway, I'd suggest you to read what I wrote, pay attention. At least the bold part. And then be constructive about it

 

I posted my 'edit' part precisely after reading your bold part :)

[Muratus del Mur]

Heat spells exist..heat slots also. I read all your reasoning but i still don't know what would be best.

breaking out of the jail by melting the gate should take a couple of days of effort.

I think its good for the "ecosystem" to allow this.. crawded jail will result in faster escape , so we should avoid jailing too many people. Also, younger players that end up in jail should find it harder to exit than older players ..BUT..i want to avoid situations where some insanwly powerful character becomes immune to jail so to speak.
Oh and even if you melt tje gate..it will require days to reach the surface (or hours)..due to a long path with high viscosity. This will create a risky area where you could really get stuk and there will be nobody to save you. This all should be part of the jail mechanism. What do you say?

[Myth]

Are there guards and is there a mess hall in Jail?

[No one]

If erolin heat is allowed ... then stronger players (when at least 2 of then are in jail) will gather heat quite fast using heat from fights.

By the way, do you want to end up with a new training ground in jail ?

 

 

breaking out of the jail by melting the gate should take a couple of days of effort.

You can just add strange (even stupid conditions) like :

 - add heat however you want but you'll have to keep it between certain limits (like above 10k, where the heat storage is limited to 11k) - which will make the jailed one work continuously for those 2 days

 - gather insane amounts of heat  - 1bilion (1k * 1m) heat - non degradable

 - sacrifice 1-2 higher lvl creatures

 - lose stats

 - get approval for someone else to take your place (and we'll have the jail full of alts)

and so on.

 

 

And again:

I think its good for the "ecosystem" to allow this.. crawded jail will result in faster escape , so we should avoid jailing too many people. Also, younger players that end up in jail should find it harder to exit than older players ..BUT..i want to avoid situations where some insanwly powerful character becomes immune to jail so to speak.

Stronger players will always have an advantage as long as it is game mechanics. (prove me that I'm wrong on this one)

 

 

The only way that you can make it equitable it is to use ONLY heat stones. Those are limited and require some outside interaction and will allow even solitary jail birds to get out (make it equitable for when the jail is not crowded).

But even then , with proper friends, one can get out pretty fast (unless you add timeouts between heat stone usage).

 

 

Oh and even if you melt the gate..it will require days to reach the surface (or hours)..due to a long path with high viscosity. This will create a risky area where you could really get stuk and there will be nobody to save you. This all should be part of the jail mechanism. What do you say?

Unless you create individual maze like paths ... after a few tries, most MD will know what is required to get out and ... again, players will get prepared. (high viscosity requires just more cakes)

 

From my point of view, if you want to "melt prison gate" then :

1.

In short : 5K heat is enough (good for stone business), NO for heat jars, YES for heat stones, 1 person / 1 use / 1 melted gate, become fugitive.

2. add timeout between heat stones

[Ary Endleg]

I don't get the heat stone idea. People would just be hoarding them in their inventories so that if they ever get into jail they can instantly get out.

[No one]

I don't get the heat stone idea. People would just be hoarding them in their inventories so that if they ever get into jail they can instantly get out.

True.

 

How many would you hoard ? 100 ? 200 ?

That would allow you to get out like ... 20-40 times ?

Indeed, if  public opinion is just like in PO's case (when he could get out in seconds), then true, there would be no point. But with limited amount of "escapes" available, ppl could keep sending that person back to jail until no more heat stones.

Edited December 3, 2014 by No one

[Myth]

To continue my previous post...

 

In case there are guards and a mess hall, try what follows below. In case there aren't, implement them and try what follows below.

 

You said a few days? Set a series of requirements:

- every day, at certain hours, everyone's allowed into the mess hall to... eat?

- on the way, attempt to buy a tip (or more) from some of the guards - some will accept, while others won't and you get penalized in some way;

- once you have the tip, attempt to see it through...

 

examples:

- you need a special dagger which you need to steal from the mess hall in order to sac creatures for heat

- you need a special recipient (not a jar, and not a stone, since those can be aquired outside of prison) for heat, which can be stolen from <insert prison location here>

- you need to find a map of the maze once you manage to melt the gate which you can steal from <insert another prison location here>

 

For every failed attempt mentioned above, you get taxed in some way. If a guard stumbles upon you on your way out, you get locked up again... make it difficult.

 

Also, if you want everyone to have equal chances of getting out, give everyone the same chance to fail/succeed in the above actions. If you want older players to have more chances of success, base the equations on their stats: trade sense for the bargain with the guard, luck for stealing the items you need, and so on...

To further the idea, everything which can directly help you escape should be confiscated from you once you get in Jail... creatures and whatever items can store/create heat. Want to use jars or stones? Want to sac creatures? Do stuff to earn whatever currency can be used in Jail and use that currency to find out how you can retrieve your stuff.

[Myth]

Punishment idea in case you get caught:

 

- get thrown in the brink for 5/10/20 days with VE reduced to 0

- in order to finish your time in there, you need to return you VE back to max

- to do that, consume 3 meals provided to you every day which replentish 20/10/5% VE every day - that way, you need to somehow be active in order to get out of said punishment

- once you reach max VE, click the door and get sent back to your cell, then start over in your attempt to break free

[Rophs]

Using a spellstone also gives you 300 heat.

It takes 12k heat to make a heat stone, each stone gives 3 casts of heat spell. Heat spell gives 4.1k heat.

3*4100 + 300 = 12600

 

Could people from the outside go down the long and viscous path to help melt the gate from outside? Imagine I get jailed and I ask my good friend Eagle Eye to help melt the gate, could he go to the "other side" of the gate and melt it using heat from his protectors? (I use him as example instead of Sy because Sy has the Fusioneers' Heat Solidifier.

[Tipu]

Excellent Mur Excellent. Finally u have chosen to do good deeds for deserving community of MD hehe.
I recommend this feature to be implemented on the day of the Xmas as a gift for the fugitives hehe 
 
However my escape plan is different 
 

 

Ann. 2683 - [2013-07-19 21:47:41 - Stage 12] - Permalink - Posted By Muratus del Mur
Thanks to Lord Tipu, one of the prison cells has now a toilet. (I am sorry for the other inmates..) [Scene contest]

 

 

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UszfSNfKY2w[/media]

 

[Muratus del Mur]

i always wanted a DECENT escape mechanism in the jail, not the usual flaws abuse.

 

Prison will remain prison, i have a lot of alternatives on how to make prison still remain what it is ...what i actually want to do is to give inmates some sort of activity, a chance to digg their way out somehow. I can't tell you my entire plan, of course, but again, all i need to know is how much heat would be "a lot" but not "impossible". Lets say so that it needs about 3 days or more to gather, in the prison.

 

No one, i could take you there to test this if you like, not joking. i think you are the best candidate for this, if you would like to. Also someone else, less experienced in md mechanics, should try to.

I don't think prison will get training ground...i have diabolic plans to torment anyone in there.

[Maebius]

Give me a crime, I'll do some time.  :P  

 

My thoughts were going to be around the levels of 15k Heat as well, (though I like Hiria's as well)   presuming lack of Training happening there.  it would take some dedication to get this, without Heat Stones/spells and Erolin stored could only get you so far.  I can picture it as a Heat-vote sort of thing like the old clickies.  Store the heat over time, and if it's above x# for a specific time cycle, then it "melts".      

[Muratus del Mur]

After reading your replies, i think 400k heat?

[Ary Endleg]

Man! 400k is 100 steps for somebody with 4k briskness, to somebody with 0-50 briskness will take eternity to gather 5k.

[DARK DEMON]

How about 99*briskiness*2

 

aka 198*briskiness

 

 

Man! 400k is 100 steps for somebody with 4k briskness, to somebody with 0-50 briskness will take eternity to gather 5k.

 

Though keep in mind that you're locked in a cell when sent to prison, and the AP cost to leave is HUGE. I think this is the gate Mur's talking about.

 

If not, then I have no clue.

Edited December 3, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Ary Endleg]

As far as I know there are few cells and hallway, you should be able to walk between those no? Hallway has big gates from which you escape, no? I've never been inside.

[No one]

No one, i could take you there to test this if you like, not joking. i think you are the best candidate for this, if you would like to.

Ok, let' see what you have. Resources can wait for 1-2 days.