The Way of the Dojo:

[Vaul]

A funny story... I am attacked frequently and almost exclusively in the so called dojo Without my permission, needless to say. This is going on for weeks. You, my friends, harbour predators I'm a bit stronger now, so losses are always welcome, but the principle of the thing...

And please, no advices like "you should report" etc., as I said I don't mind the occasional loss, I'm just saying that it happens almost every time and always by a different person. It's almost more dangerous than the outside of willow's shop.

Cheers

[Liberty4life]

well thats a problem at mp3 which wont be solved just like that

[Vaul]

ah yes, but who is it who actually needs the services of the dojo? mp3 naturally! Why would mp4,5,6 people need to study rituals and ask for help... They're already experienced players, they should be the teachers not the students, wouldn't you agree?

the mp3 problem is the only problem relevant to the dojo, regarding the predators

[Liberty4life]

well there is problem with mp4s too, but look the main problem with mp3 about dojo is that when ppl get out of story mode they appear in dojo, and they are not aware of it, so they start attacking, anyway how could they be aware of it if they just started playing

hmm there is always something new to learn, even lots of mp5s dont know some things, but there are always ppl which play this game more and are older players, so they are much more experienced, fresh mp5 still has to learn some things, since each mp level is different, also dojo isnt much of school, there you can learn simple things that new players need to learn, dojo is more like training ground

[Vaul]

Could a message be programmed so that every new player automatically receives an inbox message in which he would be asked if he would honour the dojo areas, and a list of the dojo areas, and an explanation of the dojo. And then it will be left to his own will and conscience, but at least he will be aware of it and no one might say that they attacked because of ignorance, nor will anyone say that they're damaged because they're forced to honour the dojo and some people even don't know what it is.

By programming something like that I think you would solve a lot of problems, and you would learn no players to pay attention to the details right from the start. It could also be seen as an initiation into the gamer community

[Liberty4life]

dojo isnt programmer's idea, its players idea bound to role play, you can see player that belong to dojo staff and have titles saying so, its up to us (player, not developing team) to make dojo work

[Burns]

i disagree with vaul about who needs the dojo most...
i don't think that mp3 really need the dojo most, i think it's rather newbies on mp4 and mp5 who need to learn how to defend themselves against advanced players, in mp3 there's no real need for eloquent defence rituals and extraordinary combat strategies, it's more about pure strenght at mp3. no def can help you against grasan 2 and dark archer 2 on mp3, and most players have those critters when they finish mp3^^
the dojo CAN help mp3s of course, but more with heals and a place to set rituals, not really with the teaching part...
and of course it's annoying when you try to help someone healing his creatures and some evil or ignorant guy comes in and kills your healing rit, but that can happen anywhere, and in the dojo at least a vast majority of players won't attack you, i remember being an mp3 and trying to heal with someone somewhere of the normal ways, it costs tons of ap, and the risk of being followed and bashed while healing was immense-.-

you're better off with the dojo and some occasional attacks than with healing anywhere else:D

and for all other players (mp4 and higher), i suggest to set some def rits and search for help in the dojo, you're chances of being attacked are still slimmer at the dojo than anywhere else, and some of the more secret matters of the game are normally not dicussed in the sanctuary with thousands of people listening^^

[Vaul]

[quote name='Liberty4life' post='18042' date='Oct 8 2008, 09:25 AM']dojo isnt programmer's idea, its players idea bound to role play, you can see player that belong to dojo staff and have titles saying so, its up to us (player, not developing team) to make dojo work[/quote]

So you're saying that the players decisions on how the game should be enriched is no business of the developers? You are mistaken. And I'm not saying that the developers should make the dojo work, only that it would be better if the developers accept the initiative of the players and make sure that the dojo is there. When the players become aware of the dojo, it's up to them whether they will honour it or not.

And if the game developers have nothing to do with the dojo, then why are there lists of offenders? I demand that these lists be prohibited from the official forum of the game. Nobody is braking any rules of the game, and there is absolutely no reason why should there be any lists of people who disagree with other players on matters that ale clearly of an optional and personal nature, between the players.

If the developers have nothing to do with the dojo, then no one should be designated as some kind of criminal if a player should choose not to play along with some other players who decided something on their own - at least not on the official forum.

However, if the developers choose to support this idea of the dojo, and approve that transgression of this "consensus" (although it really isn't, as experience shows) should be marked as negative, then why shouldn't they make this extra effort and make sure that EVERYONE knows that it's a dojo. Not to make sure everybody honours it, but just that they are aware of it.

[dst]

Vaul, you need to understand that all those features will be available in time. The developers have huuuge lists of things to do. And believe me that those things are much more important then this.And it's up to us, players to deal with those problems. So please stop complaining about this!
And for your information there are no developers, but 1 (one) developer. He cannot do all the things the players want. At least not in a blink of an eye. Be patient!

[Vaul]

Yes yes I realize that, I'm not rushing anything nor am I complaining about the existence of the dojo (read closely), I'm just saying that there is a certain level of hypocracy regarding the dojo offenders.

I am simply suggesting (not rushing) either the dojo-apologists demand that the development team* (*for discussion purposes) secure the dojo consensus by adding an automatic mechanism that will warn new players about its existence, or either the team ignores this initiative and therefore prohibit discrimination of the players who have their freedom in deciding how they should go about playing the game.

Offender lists are discrimination, they are marked as some sort of criminals and forum readers are encouraged to recognize these players as negative elements who don't respect the community, and perhaps even take action to punish these offenders.

[b]In my opinion[/b], this is unacceptable and wrong.

Either the [i]game authorities[/i] secure the dojo by making the information available (really, few people read the forum), or they ignore it completely (which in itself drags along other effects - mainly the prohibition of the discrimination in form of the lists).

I would like to add a clause to my opinions ---> [b]IN DUE TIME[/b]

[Liberty4life]

the developer did support idea of dojo, what do you think how did this player got theirs titles? players on "the list" are this that ARE AWARE of dojo but dont want to listen to rules of community, also this players that are part of dojo staff will later get ability to forbid attack option of this player that dont follow the rules inside of dojo

i dont get it what you wanted to say with this to stop posting names of repeated offenders since they know about rules and they keep breaking them, you call this discrimination? O.o so for example, a guy is a serial killer, you caught him, and instead of putting him in jail you would set him free to kill more ppl, sry but thats what you said, that you dont like that others who respect rules of dojo hunt this which are disrespecting dojo rules (that means killing players which respect it), it think you should reconsider what did you said

you suggested to make this about dojo the game rule, well that cant be done, punishment for breaking game rules is to get banned, and if you break dojo rules, why in hell you should get banned? since there are some players which play dark/evil role for example

for now only way of punishment for this that break rules is to hunt them down, as i said later it will be implemented that this player which break rules will be unable to attack

considering all this what you said, you would like to break dojo rules and go unpunished, or maybe you rushed toooooooo much about your opinions

next time before you start giving some heavy critics on something, get informed about it first, i mean get really good infos and explore/examine more how things work

[Vaul]

WHAT are you talking about?? I'll have to take it slowly I see, piece by pice... Are you even reading my posts??

[quote name='Liberty4life' post='18055' date='Oct 8 2008, 02:52 PM']i dont get it what you wanted to say with this to stop posting names of repeated offenders since they know about rules and they keep breaking them, you call this discrimination? O.o so for example, a guy is a serial killer, you caught him, and instead of putting him in jail you would set him free to kill more ppl, sry but thats what you said, that you dont like that others who respect rules of dojo hunt this which are disrespecting dojo rules (that means killing players which respect it), it think you should reconsider what did you said[/quote]

First of all, you don't know for a fact that all the offenders know about the dojo. You MAY know about certain individulas but you certainly don't know if all of them know, and you seem to have forgotten how confusing things get when you pop in the dojo area after the first story mode. Secondly, you talk about "braking the rules", and then you say that the dojo isn't mandatory. This is a contradiction, because the dojo rules are not recognized as a game rule, but as a deal between certain player that chose to behave this way. The creator ENDORSED your dojo, but has not made it a rule of the game.

Thirdly, your example about murder is ridiculous, and I'll tell you why. Murder isn't punished because it's wrong (from a legal perspective), it's punished because it's [b]illegal[/b]. You do know what that means? It means that there's a law saying its not permitted to kill someone, lest ye be punished. If there's no law, it's permitted (the old latin legal [i]nulla crimen, nulla poena sine lege[/i])IN MD THERE IS NO LAW ABOUT THE DOJO. The dojo FOR NOW exists only thanks to the good graces of the players, but not the game rules.

[quote name='Liberty4life' post='18055' date='Oct 8 2008, 02:52 PM']you suggested to make this about dojo the game rule, well that cant be done, punishment for breaking game rules is to get banned, and if you break dojo rules, why in hell you should get banned? since there are some players which play dark/evil role for example[/quote]

I DID NOT suggest to make it the game rule, you're not reading my post. What I suggested is that if the creators could do something about SECURING the dojo by making the INFORMATION more available. I also suggested a possible method to that effect.

[quote name='Liberty4life' post='18055' date='Oct 8 2008, 02:52 PM']for now only way of punishment for this that break rules is to hunt them down, as i said later it will be implemented that this player which break rules will be unable to attack[/quote]

So you're saying that it will be a game rule after all? But above you said it can't be done? What do you mean, I'm confused?

[quote name='Liberty4life' post='18055' date='Oct 8 2008, 02:52 PM']considering all this what you said, you would like to break dojo rules and go unpunished, or maybe you rushed toooooooo much about your opinions[/quote]

I said no such thing. I'm a big supporter of the dojo, and I have never attacked anyone in the dojo area. To be honest, actually I did, when I first entered the area after the first story mode. I had no idea it was a dojo, I was new and everything was confusing. The IDEA of a dojo never even occurred to me. I was lucky someone had politely told me in a PM, and I am grateful that no one was angry because of my ignorance. And that's why I'm suggesting a more active informing mechanism, because if there wasn't for that polite person who warned me, I could have easily got to one of the lists and be "hunted" for it.



This is very bad, to be misread so severely. You're not even reading my posts. I never said that I would like to attack peole at will, I'm pointing out a fatal FLAW in your dojo system, and it can cause discrimination and problems for people who just don't know what a dojo is and how it works in MD.

[Burns]

As i'm studying laws (or whatever else you call it in America, it's the thing you study before getting a lawyer or judge^^), i'd like to get some things clear here.
Vaul, you're saying that there's no rule to break. That's true according to the game rules, which allow to attack anybody anywhere (except for sanctuary). But the thing we're talking about here is a social rule, something not set in positive laws (written law), but more a thing that's working through social pressure. I don't know where you come from, but things like eating habits or drinking habits are among those rules.
Where i live, alcohol is a common drug that's not illegal, yet the society will punish you if you abuse it (e.g by taking away your home, job, friends...). That's NOT the law punishing you, but the SOCIETY you live in.
It's the same with the idea of the dojo. Calyx intended the dojo to be a place that everybody honors, as the idea is really good, but we as a community had to see that it didn't work.
So we started putting some social pressure on the people who don't honor the dojo. This list is nothing Mur is interested in or that's punished by him in any way, because he punishes only those who don't honor HIS rules.
So, you can be sure that there's nobody who punishes the people on that list by capturing and torturing them or reducing their stats or whatever, because this are the ways mur punishes offenders (well, he won't torture you, but it sounds nice^^)
yet there are other ways of the community to punish offenders WITHIN the rules of the game, i assume you have no idea about the cruelties of dst

That list is NOT a list of outlaws that will be banned or whose critters will be taken away, but the people on that list ARE not accepted by our society, and therefore will be punished in ways that are open to us "normal players".

ps: i've read all your posts so far, and even if you seem to know some latin, you are obviously assuming that ALL rules have to be written in a law book^^

[Liberty4life]

[quote name='Vaul' post='18060' date='Oct 8 2008, 06:54 PM']So you're saying that it will be a game rule after all? But above you said it can't be done? What do you mean, I'm confused?[/quote]

i told you that you dont get it how things work here, i am not even surprised about that, i wont explain it to you, you need to learn how role play system works here, no it wont became game rule, it will stay society rule, but developer will help society to uphold this rules by them selfs (by giving dojo staff that ability)


[quote]I said no such thing. I'm a big supporter of the dojo, and I have never attacked anyone in the dojo area. To be honest, actually I did, when I first entered the area after the first story mode. I had no idea it was a dojo, I was new and everything was confusing. The IDEA of a dojo never even occurred to me. I was lucky someone had politely told me in a PM, and I am grateful that no one was angry because of my ignorance. And that's why I'm suggesting a more active informing mechanism, because if there wasn't for that polite person who warned me, I could have easily got to one of the lists and be "hunted" for it.[/quote]

thats what i am telling you whole time, players cant get on that list, to get on that list, player needs to be warned first, and if after warning he continues to break rules, then we have no choice but to put him on list, so do you still think there are innocent players on the list??? do you still think there is a flaw in dojo system???

and yes i am reading your posts

PS
why arent you listening to me, i told you to get more infos about topic you are criticizing, not to be rush, but it is like talking to a wall

[Vaul]

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that I was speaking to the game creator himself Yes, I think there's a flaw, because the information is just not easily available. You say people are warned after they make a mistake. I'm saying that the mistake can be prevented. I suggested a method, and it's up to the creator, the staff or whoever is in a position to make a comment about that to consider it. If you're annoyed, I'm sorry that you are of weak nerves, but I'm not speaking to you really, am I?

The game is in alpha still, so you can forget that "the stuff is already there" argument. I'm talking about what's not there, and what I think should be there. Your opinion is known, thank you for that. Who are you anyway? Don't be offended please, I'm actually trying to ease those weak nerves of yours.

[Liberty4life]

did you readed this? did you readed posts in new ideas subforum?

[quote name='dst' post='18047' date='Oct 8 2008, 02:08 PM']Vaul, you need to understand that all those features will be available in time. The developers have huuuge lists of things to do. And believe me that those things are much more important then this.And it's up to us, players to deal with those problems. So please stop complaining about this!
And for your information there are no developers, but 1 (one) developer. He cannot do all the things the players want. At least not in a blink of an eye. Be patient![/quote]


vaul, this what you suggest, to put a sign in dojo so everyone can read it, or to send message every new player to inform him about dojo, etc, was suggested a hundred times already, and we will see what we will get

[quote]Who are you anyway?[/quote]
i will act like i didnt readed that

[Burns]

it's not about avoiding mistakes, it's all about not making the same mistakes again.
I understand that mp3's a re obviously starving for a quick solution so nobody attacks them in the dojo, but making mistakes is what makes us humans after all, ain't it? [i]errare humanum est[/i]^^

there were suggestions about a banner, and messages, and even implementing the dojo in the tutorial, but all that doesn't work becuase there are other things on mur's mind, so we have to deal with the problems on our own.

Maybe you've played a game before where the developing crew was always there to do whatever players wanted, but here, you have to believe in creationism: mur made the world and the primary rules, the rest is up to us^^

And i think it makes the game much more interesting that way :lol:

[maggot]

So argumentative. Liberty, as moderator of the forums, you ought to be more patient and try to aid communication, which is the purpose of the forums, rather than become upset and annoyed. As a LHO, you ought to help this new player understand something if you acknowledge that he doesn't understand something.

I disagree with you (Liberty) when you say the dojo is only society rule even if the developer plans to give special powers.. it is community-operated, but if the game developer gives dojo staff a power other players do not have to make players conform to the dojo, he is explicitly creating game rules regulating behavior around the dojo: you cannot attack in the dojo, and there are dojo moderators that will ensure you cannot do that.

I think Vaul's ideas about implementing things to make the dojo areas official is logical as long as the dojo is going to be game enforced. He is only suggesting, though, do not be so upset...

Vaul, like the others said, you should probably wait until the dojo is enforced by the game (it isn't yet, still completely community-operated with recognition from the game [dojo staff titles, Calxy = Dojo rpc] but not otherwise official) before you suggest those things. Maybe it is already planned to be like that.

I disagree with Vaul about the list of offenders being bad if the dojo isn't endorsed by the game.. like Burns said, it is a social law-thing. Communities have the freedom to try enforce an organization they create with their own powers, just as players have the freedom to ignore the wishes of those communities and break dojo rules. It's pick a game style, and it's a lot more fun this way.. if the dojo couldn't create a list of offenders, how would they create an effort to make their dojo work?

What bugs me right now is that some moderators are using their powers to enforce the dojo onto players who do not wish to comply with the community-created organization. If Vaul should wait until the dojo is officially endorsed to suggest his ideas for that time, then you should wait until the dojo is officially endorsed before using your powers granted by the game for moderating, a different purpose. That's abuse of powers for your own interest, and in the meanwhile you're taking away the freedom of people who don't even use the dojo and have no obligation to recognize it. The dojo is still not regulated by the game, as I understand it.

[Liberty4life]

[quote name='maggot' post='18083' date='Oct 9 2008, 01:57 AM']So argumentative. Liberty, as moderator of the forums, you ought to be more patient and try to aid communication, which is the purpose of the forums, rather than become upset and annoyed. As a LHO, you ought to help this new player understand something if you acknowledge that he doesn't understand something.[/quote]

well if i need to repeat same thing ten times and if player is too lazy too look around, well who wont get upset, i tried to explain everything as best as i can though

[quote]I disagree with you (Liberty) when you say the dojo is only society rule even if the developer plans to give special powers.. it is community-operated, but if the game developer gives dojo staff a power other players do not have to make players conform to the dojo, he is explicitly creating game rules regulating behavior around the dojo: you cannot attack in the dojo, and there are dojo moderators that will ensure you cannot do that.[/quote]

dojo staff dont have this power yet, when it gets it, they would be like you said, dojo "moderators", when they get that powers, other players wont be needed to watch out/hunt others which are breaking dojo rules, it would all be MUCH more simple and only dojo staff would be needed to take care about it, also, when dojo staff get that powers, there wont be this "list" anymore

[quote]I think Vaul's ideas about implementing things to make the dojo areas official is logical as long as the dojo is going to be game enforced. He is only suggesting, though, do not be so upset...[/quote]

all that has been suggested lots of times before

[quote]What bugs me right now is that[color="#FF0000"] some moderators are using their powers to enforce[/color] the dojo onto players who do not wish to comply with the community-created organization. If Vaul should wait until the dojo is officially endorsed to suggest his ideas for that time, then you should wait until the dojo is officially endorsed before using your powers granted by the game for moderating, a different purpose. That's abuse of powers for your own interest, and in the meanwhile you're taking away the freedom of people who don't even use the dojo and have no obligation to recognize it. The dojo is still not regulated by the game, as I understand it.[/quote]

what??? i dont know what about are you talking, forum mods or what???

[maggot]

You shouldn't be angry that someone is confused, and he's not really asking you to repeat things.. he's asking for clarification. Actually, most of his questions are about whether or not your points are valid.

I know they haven't been implemented yet--was responding to this:

"no it wont became game rule, it will stay society rule, but developer will help society to uphold this rules by them selfs (by giving dojo staff that ability)"

Disagree. It would be pretty much a game rule not to attack in dojo if the developer gave those powers to dojo staff.

Haven't really seen Vaul's suggestions suggested before, but even if it was, how can you expect people to know when the forums are in such a disarray? It at least doesn't say it on the list of New Ideas, and it's easy to miss topics when using the search function just because of the huge amount of them. So don't be so angry.

Sorry, meant LHOs when I wrote about moderators enforcing dojo rules with their special powers. I know at least abbadun was using some sort of spell to punish dojo rule breakers, and since you said that the locking spell wasn't granted yet, I believe it was one of his LHO spells.

[Vaul]

[quote name='maggot' post='18090' date='Oct 9 2008, 01:38 AM']Disagree. It would be pretty much a game rule not to attack in dojo if the developer gave those powers to dojo staff.[/quote]

This is exactly what I said, before and during I somehow ended up meddling with the oligarchy system of the forum and the game, or so it seems.

Liberty, you have offended me and I must take issue with that right now. Let me explain, try to read me correctly and with good will...

I don't care who you are, and I care even less who you think you are. You think I owe you respect just because you have some kind of title next to your nickname? I'll tell you what you have and I don't . it's [u][b]time[/b][/u]. You have seniority. You had time to ask questions when no one bothered. You had time to answer questions when others ignored. You got [u][b]involved[/b][/u], and you were [u][b]appreciated[/b][/u] for it. This is the basis of your title, and the only substance behind it is your personal will, and time. And this is exactly what I am trying to do! I'm in the initial phase of asking questions. I will eventually reach the phase of answering them, and, in time, I might call you a colleague in terms of titles next to nicknames. I am to be called annoying because of this?? I am annoying to you?! For getting myself [b]involved[/b], I am annoying?? My comments are constructive! I am well spoken, well read, well educated and well mannered. "I have a gift for annoying people"? I ask you again, who are you?? Seeker of Enlightment, indeed. Player to player (and not serf to master, as you would obviously have it), I demand your apology.

I am a lawyer. And a Croatian one at that. You might know what that means, but somehow I doubt it. It means that I am not primarily trained to be persuasive - I am trained to [b]identify an obligatory system[/b], to [b]recognize its integral elements[/b], and to [b]find loopholes[/b] in it! When I say there is a loophole in your system, rest assured that my observation is worth looking into. And certainly not be discarded as [u]annoying[/u].

I suppose you are a younger person, so I am not heavily offended, but I still demand your apology. If you think I owe you an apology for asking questions, I'll give it as a gesture of good will.

I'll repeat my point, so you don't get hung up on less important parts of my post, and this is aimed to the entire development team. I realize that you are very busy, and I'm not commenting on that at all. I'm just [b]warning you[/b] in good will that your approach to the dojo problems is folly! It is clear that in this stage you are [b]more concerned[/b] with implementing the punishment system than improving the information system! [b]IN MY OPINION[/b], and pardon me for taking myself seriously, this is a deconstructive approach to a problem (and I think I know my way around obligatory systems), the frequency of which will take its toll on the (emerging) new-player "[i]caste[/i]" (?) (dramatic music plays).

And while I'm above responding to insult by further insult (@Liberty), I am, however, not above theatrics. That being said, I HUMBLY take my leave from your august presence, oh mighty oligarchy of seniors, ye who command obedience and respect lest we mortals be damned for annoyance.

A joke.

Thank you for your patience.

[Udgard]

Okay... I'll take the deliberation to ask people to calm down a bit. There might have been someone being a little tired in RL here and some misunderstanding in language there. Both are trying to discuss things that both hope will improve the game despite the limitations in coding time available to fully address it. Both have a good intention, and I hope this will not continue to a further fight. Thank you..

[Vaul]

[quote name='Udgard' post='18127' date='Oct 9 2008, 12:19 PM']...and I hope this will not continue to a further fight...[/quote]

This is guaranteed, solemnly

[dst]

C'mon people! Behave! It's just a game. It's not perfect and probably it will never be (Mur don't kill me! ) but improvements will come in time. The rules will develop, the players will evolve ( I hope). So stop arguing and start playing more.
And let's make the forum popular (even if it means more work for me) because it's a really good thing and lots of information can be obtain here.

[Liberty4life]

yea you are right to ask me to apologize, and yep i am busy and yep i really have some very serious problems irl (only few ppl knew that until now) which cant be solved just like that, it has been going on already i think for two weeks, and this isnt first time someone saw me like this, you guys all know that i suck a bit at explaining and i think this was key for this miss understanding, but i tried to explain everything as best as i could, maybe it wasnt so understandable but it was explanation

[quote]I don't care who you are, and I care even less who you think you are.[/quote]
well anyway who cares? nobody cares, no matter is that i or someone else

[quote]You think I owe you respect just because you have some kind of title next to your nickname?[/quote]
similar answer like above one, respect isnt gained in a way of showing achievements or anything else, it is gained by rightful acts with some person, i am not sure if i explained this good though, but i think you got point

no its just a luck i began playing game before you, time is just a small advantage which later can be easy to overpass, at least this game works in that way, btw i didnt got my title in a way you think i got it

also by your acts i would say that this is one of your first forums you got on, if not i wonder why dont you know that first you need to search and read every possible source that can give you an answer to what you are looking for or is it (the thing you want to talk) maybe somewhere mentioned already, when you got through all sources of info (well it doesnt take much time, max 20 mins if they are LOTS of infos, you have search button to help you) then you ask for a clue or post what you though is important and if you are unsure of it you are supposed to ask in ps or btw section of your post is it already mentioned before, also you knew that i suck at explaining because i saw your replay in that topic, so you was supposed to try a bit harder to understand what i was trying to say you all the time, ofc that was one of reason you pissed me off, knowledge can be obtained by many other ways, not just by asking, it is mainly obtained by researching, exploring and reading

i didnt tried to say that your observation should be discarded i was trying to say that it was already seen and suggested a way to fix it, the same one you suggested

at first i thought you were younger, now i am not sure, and i dont care, lets face it there are some kids that are 12 years old and they act like adults, they are talking wisely, they act like adult person should act, etc, also i saw some adults that are about 24 years old but they still act like kids, about this is a much deeper conversation which i dont have time to talk about, but its true, so age isnt important, as much as i saw from your acts i can only say you are a young lawyer, there is lots of things i could told you about where i think you are wrong but i dont have time and i want this conversation to over because we got a way toooooo away from topic

hmm i cant say for sure what we will get to solve this kind of problem about dojo, but lets face it, if we get only a information system, well almost every player would know about it, but still there will be this which will not respect dojo rules, so wouldnt that mean that punish system is more important that information system, and btw this new "punish" system that will be implemented wont actually punish ppl, since it would just permit then to attack in dojo, and dojo is a training area, not slaughter area, this that dont use dojo why they should disturb others which use it? it like (not same) fighting school but, students there wont kill each other, but it can happen to injure each other, what if school isnt guarded/protected some maniac could get in just like that and start killing students trying to prove himself by killing all this students that he is lets say almighty karate warrior, this is just a example, probably a bad one, but it still shows my point what i want to say, and remember we arent in courtroom so if i say something a little wrong thats not a big deal cause everyone gets what i meant, while in courtroom every little thing can be a "wind of change"

[quote]Disagree. It would be pretty much a game rule not to attack in dojo if the developer gave those powers to dojo staff.[/quote]

i still dont get this, so what if you dont want to follow rules, you attack players, dojo staff permits you to attack, when spell wears off, later you came back when there is no dojo staff online and attack again, i still dont see it as problem, btw i think it will work in that way, but dont believe me much because i dont know it, it just an assumption