pamplemousse Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 As per Mur's request here is the log of the RPC meeting on June 14 at 23:00 server time. ___________ log become bublic on my request and will be back up soon, the reason to post this public is that the discussed things involved rpcs but the affected people are also non rpcs. I want the logs unedited or interpreted so that all sides can have their word heard public without someone to decide whats important or whats not. Useless roleplay actions and offtopic comments will be removed to keep it shorter. -- Mur ____________ [14/06/09 22:55] .Akasha.:echooo [14/06/09 22:56] .Muratus del Mur.:echooo back [14/06/09 22:56] .Ailith.: *blinks* I will NEVER get used to that... [14/06/09 22:56] .Metal Bunny.:lol [14/06/09 22:56] .MRD.:Really? [14/06/09 22:56] .MRD.:Are we THAT bad? [14/06/09 22:56] .MRD.:lol [14/06/09 22:56] .yrthilian.:ah so that is why i was getting thoes errors [14/06/09 22:56] .Metal Bunny.:this... is outside the prison [14/06/09 22:56] .Akasha.:told ya [14/06/09 22:56] .Metal Bunny.:I dun wanna go to prison :( [14/06/09 22:56] .Muratus del Mur.:i invited only those that are on, if any other rpc comes on during this meating, let me know so i can invite him here [14/06/09 22:57] .Amoran.:oh um.. Chewett said he\'s going to be late [14/06/09 22:58] .Metal Bunny.:Btw, I won\'t be talking a lot, finishing up homework here [14/06/09 22:58] .Metal Bunny.:I\'ll be listening mostly [14/06/09 22:58] .Amoran.:I\'m working on a bit of artwork at the moment.. so I may not respond much either. [14/06/09 22:59] .Akasha.:pfff [14/06/09 22:59] .yrthilian.:lol well depends on what is said [14/06/09 23:00] .Muratus del Mur.:well i am just listening, so ..whats the meating about? :D [14/06/09 23:00] .yrthilian.:i may or may not respond [14/06/09 23:00] .Akasha.:we are gathered here to count the dots :D so if somene has somethng else to do , please do that important thing [14/06/09 23:01] .yrthilian.:Rpc co-operation - i would like to say something on this (Chewett Said this) [14/06/09 23:01] .yrthilian.:and this Forum Stuff - again just want to say some small things [14/06/09 23:02] .yrthilian.:Guess we should start with something [14/06/09 23:02] .Muratus del Mur.:k [14/06/09 23:02] .yrthilian.:I dont have much time online myself [14/06/09 23:02] .yrthilian.:So RPC CoOP [14/06/09 23:03] .yrthilian.:i beleve there is an issue with this as it looks like we have become more split that ever before [14/06/09 23:03] .yrthilian.:We seem to be at each others troaths [14/06/09 23:03] .Muratus del Mur.:i am starting to believe its inevitable [14/06/09 23:03] .yrthilian.:and fighting in fromt of the new and young players [14/06/09 23:04] .yrthilian.:yes it may well be BUT... [14/06/09 23:04] .yrthilian.:we are RPC\'s we should know better [14/06/09 23:04] .Akasha.:we should but it seems like we don\'t [14/06/09 23:05] .yrthilian.:or at least keep it out of public eyes [14/06/09 23:05] .yrthilian.:Mur would it be posuable (i know it might be a lot of work) but a place just for RPC\'s to argue out of the eyes of the public? [14/06/09 23:06] .Metal Bunny.:like, rpc forum? [14/06/09 23:06] .Metal Bunny.:I dunno, just a suggestion [14/06/09 23:06] .Muratus del Mur.:well, a place just for rpcs, dont you think rpcs are enoug splitted from the rest of the players allready? [14/06/09 23:06] .MRD.:Most topics there get closed right away [14/06/09 23:06] .Muratus del Mur.:there is the forum [14/06/09 23:06] .yrthilian.:that might help but most RPC dont even use the section given to us on the forums [14/06/09 23:06] .Zleiphneir.:we already have jchat and the forum [14/06/09 23:06] .Muratus del Mur.:if there will be a place just for rpcs i fear they will stay just there all the time [14/06/09 23:07] .yrthilian.:again Jchat only use by some [14/06/09 23:07] .Zleiphneir.:then the issue is they arnt using it, not that we dont have it ... [14/06/09 23:08] .yrthilian.:yes that may well be [14/06/09 23:08] .yrthilian.:but you cant force them to use the forum or can we? ... [14/06/09 23:08] .Metal Bunny.:yrthilian, i think the problem lies as such [14/06/09 23:09] .Metal Bunny.:it\'s not the question whether to force the rpc\'s to be on the forum [14/06/09 23:09] .Amoran.:What is wrong with using the Jchat for this? [14/06/09 23:09] .Metal Bunny.:it\'s to change their mentality to realize that the forum is the best possible option [14/06/09 23:09] .Metal Bunny.:or jchat indeed [14/06/09 23:09] .MRD.:Whats wrong with just not fighting at all and being respectable human beings? :D [14/06/09 23:09] .Amoran.:I like that suggestion. [14/06/09 23:10] .Metal Bunny.:true :P [14/06/09 23:10] .Metal Bunny.:but really, with this many people, there is bound to be some argument some time [14/06/09 23:11] .yrthilian.:yes there is [14/06/09 23:11] .Muratus del Mur.:i am not in the mood to enourage anyone to cooperation right now, i tried, you do whatever you please, eventualy there is allways the option to be no more rpcs at all [14/06/09 23:12] .Muratus del Mur.: (brb) [14/06/09 23:12] .MRD.:This sucks.... [14/06/09 23:13] .Metal Bunny.:it does? [14/06/09 23:13] .Zleiphneir.:what sucks? [14/06/09 23:13] .Metal Bunny.:isn\'t that incentive enough? get along or stop existing :P [14/06/09 23:14] .yrthilian.:you would think [14/06/09 23:14] .Metal Bunny.:true.. but some people might in their anger/frustration [14/06/09 23:14] .Metal Bunny.:just give it all up [14/06/09 23:14] .Metal Bunny.:and take people down with them [14/06/09 23:14] .Peace.: *wakes up and sits in the back* Sorry if I was late. [14/06/09 23:14] .Metal Bunny.:I got some sort of idea [14/06/09 23:14] .Ailith.:Why don\'t we come up with a code of conduct for RPCs to abide by? We don\'t always have to agree, but we will have to disagree civilly [14/06/09 23:15] .Metal Bunny.:what if we just, get some sort of objective person who tries to mediate and sort of goes by some form of coc [14/06/09 23:15] .MRD.:Thats Ailith MB [14/06/09 23:15] .Metal Bunny.:yeah.. like ailith said, with coc being code of conduct [14/06/09 23:15] .MRD.:LOL [14/06/09 23:15] .Metal Bunny.:oh well.. [14/06/09 23:15] .Peace.:Yup. [14/06/09 23:15] .Zleiphneir.:RJ already tried a set of guidelines to agree to....that didnt go down well now did it... [14/06/09 23:16] .Ailith.:but if we agree on it ourselves instead of having someone set it [14/06/09 23:16] .Metal Bunny.:yeah, but that\'s because it\'s made out of rj\'s pov [14/06/09 23:16] .Metal Bunny.:if you were to setup guidelines, either everyone has to agree, or Mur has to make them [14/06/09 23:16] .Peace.:Can anyone, please, tell me the subject we have here? [14/06/09 23:16] .Metal Bunny.:the last one would be a strain on his sanity [14/06/09 23:16] .Metal Bunny.:rpc cooperation and more specifically [14/06/09 23:17] .Metal Bunny.:how to prevent infighting [14/06/09 23:17] .Peace.:Thankyou. [14/06/09 23:17] .Metal Bunny.:or at least, how to deal with it best [14/06/09 23:18] .Ailith.:do we really need to turn to Mur for this? it would be a great shame if we did [14/06/09 23:18] .Metal Bunny.:well i did say it would be a great strain on his sanity, so i say, let\'s not do that [14/06/09 23:19] .yrthilian.:Look as it was already mentioned. We as players and RPC\'s are going to come to but heads. We need to agree to some sort of code set by US [14/06/09 23:19] .Peace.:I am afraid Ailith that we have no other choice, do we? [14/06/09 23:19] .Metal Bunny.:I am quite attached to his creative mind :P [14/06/09 23:19] .Metal Bunny.:I say we make a common code of conduct [14/06/09 23:19] .Amoran.:Ailith, its already a great shame that any of us are fighting in the first place. [14/06/09 23:19] .Ailith.:Yes.. we need to do it ourselves [14/06/09 23:19] .Peace.:I agree with Amoran. [14/06/09 23:20] .Ailith.:Yes it is, Amoran [14/06/09 23:20] .Peace.:Ailith, tell me who has done it so far? [14/06/09 23:20] .Peace.:Look at the forums. [14/06/09 23:20] .yrthilian.:Ok i have a suggestion we pick one of use to send suggestions to to start creating the RPC code [14/06/09 23:20] .yrthilian.:we meet up again [14/06/09 23:20] .yrthilian.:after a while to agree the code outline [14/06/09 23:20] .Metal Bunny.:my first suggestion is to make it simple and small [14/06/09 23:21] .Ailith.:yes, and build from there [14/06/09 23:21] .Metal Bunny.:don\'t want no 2345 pages long european constition-esque thingy [14/06/09 23:21] .yrthilian.:yes kind of like Cough the 10 commandments chough [14/06/09 23:22] .Metal Bunny.:I have one.. [14/06/09 23:22] .Metal Bunny.:are we doing this now? or..? [14/06/09 23:22] .Metal Bunny.:cuz.. you know.. [14/06/09 23:22] .Metal Bunny.:even if i am making hw (almost done :D) [14/06/09 23:22] .Metal Bunny.:you are all awfully quiet [14/06/09 23:22] .Grido.:now, sure [14/06/09 23:22] .Muratus del Mur.: (back) [14/06/09 23:22] .Peace.: (wb) [14/06/09 23:23] .yrthilian.:First off pick someone to be the one to take the details and make the list [14/06/09 23:23] .Metal Bunny.:right, I suggest the first thing we put in that thing is that the players of MD are the main concern [14/06/09 23:23] .yrthilian.:so start nominating someone [14/06/09 23:23] .Metal Bunny.:not us, not mur, not the game [14/06/09 23:23] .Metal Bunny.:the players of MD [14/06/09 23:23] .Zleiphneir.:I think we should just discuss it now...but thats just my op. [14/06/09 23:23] .Metal Bunny.:All for the betterment of the people :P [14/06/09 23:24] .Metal Bunny.:that way, one may better objectively judge wether rpc actions are good or not [14/06/09 23:24] .Metal Bunny.:because you can actually say if it is good in a certain aspect or not [14/06/09 23:24] .Metal Bunny.:so.. for the people, who with me? :P [14/06/09 23:24] :.Akasha. thinks if she should start the brainwash topic or not yet [14/06/09 23:24] .Tarquinus.:I second that, MB. [14/06/09 23:24] .Zleiphneir.:yes Bunny I think that should be obvious. [14/06/09 23:25] .Metal Bunny.:obvious yes, but sometimes when you are in a heated debate [14/06/09 23:25] .Metal Bunny.:people tend to forget the obvious [14/06/09 23:25] .yrthilian.:yes MB that will be the first code [14/06/09 23:25] .Muratus del Mur.:i wont stay to much, so if there is something that is depending on me, please lets talk it now [14/06/09 23:26] .Metal Bunny.:uh... you may leave imo Mur :P [14/06/09 23:26] .yrthilian.:yes Mur i dont think you will be needed :P [14/06/09 23:26] .Ailith.::) [14/06/09 23:26] .yrthilian.:but i will ask one thing can you maby lower the adept count needed for MP6 [14/06/09 23:26] .Peace.:If you people say so... [14/06/09 23:26] .Muratus del Mur.::) [14/06/09 23:27] .Akasha.:so...before starting any disscusions about the coc shouldn\'t we first speak about the PROBLEMS existing in the game? [14/06/09 23:27] .Peace.:Which are, Akasha? [14/06/09 23:27] .Akasha.:like: game stole, ym conferences about how teh game is stolen, about how Mur is brainwashing ppl and is something like BF Skinner? [14/06/09 23:27] .Muratus del Mur.:i am continuing my maraton to work on the new combat system, i am in that obsessive state where i cant stop from doing something [14/06/09 23:27] .Akasha.:I suggest those to be cleared first [14/06/09 23:28] .Peace.:O.o [14/06/09 23:28] .Akasha.:the lack of artworkers and the threats done about that in public? ... [14/06/09 23:28] .Akasha.:the backstabbing ? [14/06/09 23:28] .yrthilian.:please someone send me the log of this chat [14/06/09 23:28] .Metal Bunny.:uh.. could you recap it really quick for me again? [14/06/09 23:28] .yrthilian.:I really wanted to speak about some stuff too [14/06/09 23:28] .Akasha.:shouldn\'t we fisrt disscuss about this problems? [14/06/09 23:28] .Amoran.:Pardon but, I will not be a part of this if it is going to escalate into something ridiculous. [14/06/09 23:29] .Akasha.:oh the person that feels guilty will run away :) ... [14/06/09 23:29] .Muratus del Mur.:Ak, that is simply to solve, whoever has an issue can leave, nobody is forced to stay and \"be brainwashed\" or whatever [14/06/09 23:29] .Peace.:O.o [14/06/09 23:29] .yrthilian.:Also i want to point out to current RPC that may not know this (I play Wodin too This is something i have been doing and legitmatly too) [14/06/09 23:29] .Akasha.:i know..quilt is such a pain in the ass ... [14/06/09 23:29] .Peace.:OMFG Amoran... [14/06/09 23:29] .Muratus del Mur.:i dont need to respond to such things and you are geting to agitated because of them, leave it be [14/06/09 23:29] .Peace.:OMFG that is all I have to say. [14/06/09 23:30] .Metal Bunny.:did she just leave? [14/06/09 23:30] .Akasha.:i know Peace..now? can you disscuss about coc and rpc\'s as a TEAM? [14/06/09 23:30] .Peace.:Yes. [14/06/09 23:30] .Akasha.:yes [14/06/09 23:30] .yrthilian.:now sorry but i really have to leave [14/06/09 23:30] .Metal Bunny.:oh well, her choice, but... [14/06/09 23:30] .Peace.:My yes was for MB but sure :) [14/06/09 23:30] .Muratus del Mur.:yeah, it seems talking shit about me can be done only behind my back [14/06/09 23:31] .Zleiphneir.:-_- [14/06/09 23:31] .Akasha.:she has done conferences abotu the game and mur, that he is brainwashing ppl minds and doing experiments and she was just feeling guilty and had no guts to face the true [14/06/09 23:31] .Akasha.:tryth* [14/06/09 23:31] .Metal Bunny.:I get the feeling people tend to ostracize others as well [14/06/09 23:31] .Metal Bunny.:trying to be objective here [14/06/09 23:31] .Metal Bunny.:but i get the feeling that the way she just felt which forced her to leave [14/06/09 23:31] .Muratus del Mur.:but again, there is no need to discuss this, there is no point of argue here,..i think this is just that part where I say \"whatever\" and move on [14/06/09 23:32] .Metal Bunny.:is part of the non-coop atmosphere here [14/06/09 23:32] .Peace.:Excume me, but what Amoran just did is stupid. [14/06/09 23:32] .Metal Bunny.:true, very true [14/06/09 23:32] .Peace.:Leaving an RPC meeting? [14/06/09 23:32] .Akasha.:yup, i do not co-operate with ppl that think the game is made to brainwash ppl and as an experiment :) [14/06/09 23:32] .Metal Bunny.:I don\'t condone her actions [14/06/09 23:32] .Akasha.:but you can do that :) [14/06/09 23:32] .Peace.:And then you all wonder what is wrong with MD [14/06/09 23:33] .Peace.:We can\'t even talk to each other ffs. [14/06/09 23:33] .Muratus del Mur.:yeah :( [14/06/09 23:33] .Metal Bunny.:Look, all I am saying is, some of us are acting like children [14/06/09 23:33] .Amoran.:Well I\'m back, are we done causing problems yet? [14/06/09 23:33] .Tarquinus.:Can we do it plainly and civilly? [14/06/09 23:33] .Peace.:I get complaints from people [14/06/09 23:33] .Raven.:And yet we well more only you guys talk about it but not offering solutions as far as I understood till now. [14/06/09 23:33] .Muratus del Mur.:and seeing me as an enemy of any kind is the same stupid [14/06/09 23:33] .Peace.:New players and old. [14/06/09 23:33] .Metal Bunny.:What amoran did was bad, but to react in a childish manner back is worse, because you are propagating the cycle [14/06/09 23:33] .Peace.:Saying about quiting. [14/06/09 23:34] .Peace.:The game may be progressing slowly but still progressing, but our actions have effects on other people you know. [14/06/09 23:34] .Metal Bunny.:raven, you want solutions? [14/06/09 23:34] .Peace.:It is us, this community in this very room, that draws people away. [14/06/09 23:34] .Metal Bunny.:I have a solution [14/06/09 23:34] .Metal Bunny.:things you disagree with go on the rpc forum and stay there [14/06/09 23:34] .Zleiphneir.:I dont agree Peace. Its a number of things not just the people here. [14/06/09 23:34] .Metal Bunny.:that\'s it [14/06/09 23:35] .Zleiphneir.:and as individuals often the people here are part of the reason people stay. [14/06/09 23:35] .Peace.:Yeah Bunny, I saw how that worked out. [14/06/09 23:35] .Raven.:Wasn\'t that supoosed to be already in practice? [14/06/09 23:35] .Metal Bunny.:well, I am using it [14/06/09 23:35] .Metal Bunny.:it\'s working for me [14/06/09 23:35] .Akasha.: (MB: you can;t put in the RPC forum the things she says /states in ym conferences about the brainwash and the BFSkinner experiments and how Mur is doing that on you all...) [14/06/09 23:36] .Amoran.: (Akasha, drop it.) [14/06/09 23:36] .Amoran.: (I have, you should too.) [14/06/09 23:36] .Raven.:But it solves part of the problem right? [14/06/09 23:36] .Peace.:Girls, please. [14/06/09 23:36] .Akasha.:also the acusing of the stolen game [14/06/09 23:36] .Muratus del Mur.:cat fight please [14/06/09 23:36] :.Amoran. sighs [14/06/09 23:36] .Metal Bunny.:dear gods... [14/06/09 23:36] .Amoran.:Really, is there even a point to this? [14/06/09 23:36] .Akasha.:what solves? ends the stupidness? i don\'t think so [14/06/09 23:36] .Peace.:Mud pit? [14/06/09 23:36] .Peace.:You didn\'t hear that from me. [14/06/09 23:37] .Akasha.:yes. admit you are fighting for a stupid reason: Mur is not brainwashing us [14/06/09 23:37] .Akasha.:=)) [14/06/09 23:37] .Raven.: *looks annoyed* Kids... [14/06/09 23:37] .Amoran.:I\'m not going to admit to anything. [14/06/09 23:37] .Amoran.:Can we get back on topic please? [14/06/09 23:37] .Akasha.:and take the advise you gave me on the forums, do something to yourself [14/06/09 23:37] .Zleiphneir.:I also think this attitude is bad... [14/06/09 23:37] .Amoran.:And also, I\'m not fighting- you are. [14/06/09 23:37] .Zleiphneir.:this attitude of dont argue. [14/06/09 23:37] .Akasha.:should i start copy/paste your words? [14/06/09 23:37] .Akasha.:of course whn you know for sure i or Mur are not around? [14/06/09 23:37] .Muratus del Mur.:ok PLEASE let me put an end to this by saying to Amoran: if you have anything to accuse me of, please do this public, or to me, and not behind my back and from a non proviledged position, not as part [14/06/09 23:37] .Metal Bunny.:I don\'t really mind arguing, I mind the way it is being done [14/06/09 23:38] .Muratus del Mur.:of MD, and [14/06/09 23:38] .Akasha.:i won;t do that, as you proved yourself quilty when you left [14/06/09 23:38] .Zleiphneir.:ok MB. [14/06/09 23:38] .Muratus del Mur.:to Akasha: if you want things to be solved you should be the first to learn to stop so that the rest stops too [14/06/09 23:38] .Amoran.:Mur, as far as I know- this isn\'t the reason an RPC meeting was called, this is once again- your wife causing problems. [14/06/09 23:38] .Amoran.:I have dropped the issue. [14/06/09 23:38] .Amoran.:Completely. ... [14/06/09 23:40] .Muratus del Mur.:amoran, dear, the fact akasha is my wife is irelevant for her as an RPC, but the way you put the problem might make me to take it too personal [14/06/09 23:40] .Metal Bunny.:anyways, back to the code? [14/06/09 23:40] .Peace.:I guess. [14/06/09 23:40] .MRD.:of conduct? [14/06/09 23:40] .Peace.:Yes. [14/06/09 23:40] .Grido.:yes, quite [14/06/09 23:41] .Grido.:did we agree on any codes yet? [14/06/09 23:41] .Metal Bunny.:right, 1st one was \"For teh peepz\" [14/06/09 23:41] .Tarquinus.:yes, for the players. [14/06/09 23:41] .Peace.:Yup. [14/06/09 23:41] .Metal Bunny.:But I think that should be clarified more, because (especially me) I know how you can manipulate that ... [14/06/09 23:42] .Metal Bunny.:for the peeps could quickly turn into, follow me, your fearless leader [14/06/09 23:42] .Metal Bunny.:who /knows what is best for you/ [14/06/09 23:42] .Metal Bunny.:we need to establish here, what is best for the players [14/06/09 23:42] .Muratus del Mur.:wait a sec, waht codes are we talking about? [14/06/09 23:42] .Metal Bunny.:code of conduct :P [14/06/09 23:42] .Muratus del Mur.::-s [14/06/09 23:42] .Peace.:Rules in a way?! [14/06/09 23:42] .Metal Bunny.:how rpc\'s should behave [14/06/09 23:42] .Ailith.:Code of conduct [14/06/09 23:42] .Muratus del Mur.:ah [14/06/09 23:42] .Metal Bunny.:not rules [14/06/09 23:43] .Metal Bunny.:guidelines [14/06/09 23:43] .Peace.:Ah. [14/06/09 23:43] .Peace.:Go on. [14/06/09 23:43] .Muratus del Mur.:but... [14/06/09 23:43] .Metal Bunny.:when rules are broken, punishment comes, guidelines help us, guide us [14/06/09 23:43] .Akasha.:right, for 2 years we needed no rules and suddenly we need them [14/06/09 23:43] .Metal Bunny.:they push us in the right direction, that\'s it.. [14/06/09 23:43] .Peace.:I am the newbiest rpc to talk about that. [14/06/09 23:43] .Muratus del Mur.:there will be exceptions, and because there are so few of you, those exceptions, whover it will be, will destroy everything eventualy [14/06/09 23:43] .Metal Bunny.:akasha, everyone needs rules [14/06/09 23:43] .Grido.:because 2 years ago there werent as many disagreements or arguments [14/06/09 23:44] .Peace.:Yup. [14/06/09 23:44] .Metal Bunny.:2 years ago, people respected each other, those rpc\'s are gone [14/06/09 23:44] .Peace.:I think, I was not there :P [14/06/09 23:44] .Muratus del Mur.:could it be my fault that i picked the wrong \"set\" of rpcs? [14/06/09 23:44] .Chewett.:Rules are definately needed. When a rpc is promoted they arnt even told any guidelines. They can do what they want [14/06/09 23:44] .Metal Bunny.:mur, only you can decide that objectively [14/06/09 23:44] .MRD.:Mur, NEVER blame yourself [14/06/09 23:44] .Metal Bunny.:well not really [14/06/09 23:44] .Metal Bunny.:but only you can decide that [14/06/09 23:44] .Muratus del Mur.:i mean, what was so different from back then till now that now we need \"rpc police\" so to say [14/06/09 23:45] .Akasha.:and why are those? on what reasons? who is trying to backstab and who is speaking shit on private (not so private as you can see i know) [14/06/09 23:45] .Raven.:Akasha you just can\'t drop it can you? [14/06/09 23:46] .Peace.:If the woman has unanswered questions, what do you expect her to doo? [14/06/09 23:46] .Muratus del Mur.:befoure thinking about rules or guidelines, we should think about inevitable things [14/06/09 23:46] .Pamplemousse.:Hello everyone. [14/06/09 23:46] .Peace.:Hello Pamplemousse. [14/06/09 23:47] .Amoran.:Hello Pample [14/06/09 23:47] .Muratus del Mur.:you cant ask for understanding and peace between two sides that are fighting and each side considers itsself right [14/06/09 23:47] .Grido.:hi Scarfy [14/06/09 23:47] .Muratus del Mur.:you could force that \"peace\", but i will not need or want any RPCs that are forced to do things [14/06/09 23:47] .Metal Bunny.:hi [14/06/09 23:48] .Raven.:Thats true. But why can\'t both sides bare with it.. Ignore it etc for sake of something greater? [14/06/09 23:48] .Muratus del Mur.:we try to find a solution considering only the imdediate effects and what is now going on, but i think the situation is far more serious [14/06/09 23:49] .Muratus del Mur.:you cant ignore things that are affecting you or affect the things you care about [14/06/09 23:49] .Zleiphneir.:what if both sides feel something greater is in jeopardy by not pushing their belief Raven? [14/06/09 23:49] .Peace.:But what when we see that it is pointless trying? [14/06/09 23:49] .Raven.:Ignore might be the wrong word that should be used atm [14/06/09 23:49] .Peace.:I have been in those situations a few times and eventually I dropped it for my mental health. [14/06/09 23:50] .Amoran.:Zlei, Peace.. I just said that I\'m willing to drop the issue. [14/06/09 23:50] .Zleiphneir.:Im not talking about you amoran. [14/06/09 23:50] .Raven.:My point Peace. *nods at her* [14/06/09 23:50] .Peace.:Same. [14/06/09 23:50] .Zleiphneir.:Its a basic fact about arguments. [14/06/09 23:50] .Muratus del Mur.:you cant and should not learn to lose in front of someone that tries to win against you... sounds weird, but its so... learning to lose is good and happens only without the pressure of winning [14/06/09 23:51] .Muratus del Mur.:IF you drop it and you still believe you are right, it will only turn it into disapointent and will delay the issues [14/06/09 23:51] .Peace.:I prefer my mental health to be fine, instead of having fights, arguments and stuff. [14/06/09 23:51] .Muratus del Mur.:amoran, what issue to drop, please explain, from what i see you initiated the issue, so you are not the one to drop anything right now [14/06/09 23:52] .Raven.:Then there is when 3rd person comes in to judge but seems its hard to solve anything that way also. [14/06/09 23:52] .Peace.:Yup. [14/06/09 23:52] .Muratus del Mur.:its easy to draw back when you are confortable to do so, anyway, i was talking about more, not about a single conflict [14/06/09 23:52] .Muratus del Mur.:what are rpcs? [14/06/09 23:53] .Peace.:Role-playing characters? [14/06/09 23:53] .Raven.:Bunch of imature ppl in general atm [14/06/09 23:53] .Chewett.:I agree raven [14/06/09 23:53] .Raven.: (my point of view) [14/06/09 23:53] .Peace.:That too. [14/06/09 23:53] .Zleiphneir.:not very constructive... [14/06/09 23:54] .Muratus del Mur.:i consider them models, people that should have the authority to influence/BRAINWASH *cough* others into good/creative things ..sort of game masters of their own [14/06/09 23:54] .Amoran.:The issue is clearly not going to be resolved so I am completely dropping it from here on out. [14/06/09 23:54] .Peace.:... [14/06/09 23:55] .Muratus del Mur.:that, does not mean they have authority, leadership, negociation skills or anything actualy [14/06/09 23:55] .Peace.:Between them you mean, right? [14/06/09 23:56] .Muratus del Mur.:each rpc has its own personality, and i am counting on this lack of rules and freedom of the rpcs to keep things moving [14/06/09 23:56] .Raven.:I think he means personalty [14/06/09 23:56] .Peace.:Ah. [14/06/09 23:57] .Muratus del Mur.:i mean the rpc personality is not that of handpicked people that can do team work [14/06/09 23:57] .Muratus del Mur.:since i am right now very involved with the combat system, let me put it in programing/math terms, it seems more clear right now to me, listen [14/06/09 23:58] .Muratus del Mur.:you have all the rational numbers .... but some of them are prime ... some numbers are realy there and not derived from other numbers ...the same way, out of the mass of players, the rpcs are personal [14/06/09 23:59] .Muratus del Mur.:personalities that managed to become or deserved to become, pilons of the rest of the people/\"numbers\" here [15/06/09 00:00] .Muratus del Mur.:since MD is shaped by my guidelines (not rules) , the rpc process cant be automated but must be manualy done ... so the rpcs are not selected by same rules ever [15/06/09 00:00] .Muratus del Mur.:each one of you is important, and even argues that arise are important, but you know how it is, if you touch the fire you get burned....... [15/06/09 00:01] .Muratus del Mur.:so if this stearing of the rpcs gets out of hand, like now, things will go down, not creative [15/06/09 00:01] .Muratus del Mur.:on the other hand, a team of rpcs with same \'mind\', forced by rules and behaviour guides, will make things also bad [15/06/09 00:02] .Muratus del Mur.:i dont want a team of obeisant workers [15/06/09 00:02] .Muratus del Mur.:i want sparks that can change things, start fires, but not riots ;) [15/06/09 00:02] :.Ailith. giggles [15/06/09 00:02] .Metal Bunny.:what you want is hard.. [15/06/09 00:02] .Grido.:rebel! *grins* [15/06/09 00:02] .Metal Bunny.::P [15/06/09 00:02] .Muratus del Mur.:of course its hard [15/06/09 00:03] .Muratus del Mur.:i am not scared of hard [15/06/09 00:03] .Muratus del Mur.::D [15/06/09 00:03] .Tarquinus.:hard, but achievable [15/06/09 00:03] .Metal Bunny.:doesn\'t mean we shouldn\'t try, i know :P [15/06/09 00:04] .Metal Bunny.:you want creative freedom [15/06/09 00:04] .Metal Bunny.:then shouldn\'t cooperation between rpc\'s come voluntary? [15/06/09 00:04] .Metal Bunny.:instead of making topics about it on the forum? [15/06/09 00:05] .Muratus del Mur.:imagine all your activities as a flow, at some point swirls come out, bringing the risk that the entire flow will go into that swirl, i can stop this , but if it will allways require my to stop it , i [15/06/09 00:05] .Muratus del Mur.:it will only mean its too falty to survive without me, so i will eventualy drop it [15/06/09 00:05] .Muratus del Mur.:IT SHOULD, but does it? [15/06/09 00:05] .Muratus del Mur.:it once did [15/06/09 00:05] .Raven.:Only cooperation is boring.. There has to be some heatly competition but ppl need to learn where is the limit to that and when they should start talkin in private only. [15/06/09 00:06] .Raven.: (or something like that) [15/06/09 00:06] .Muratus del Mur.:i think i could trace my mistakes in this RPC \"set\" [15/06/09 00:06] .Metal Bunny.:yeah something like that... [15/06/09 00:07] :.Raven. pokes bunny [15/06/09 00:07] .Muratus del Mur.:and my mistake was to bring in the team people to close to eachother. The moment i did that i forced without realising it the splitting into groups and where there are groups there are argues [15/06/09 00:07] .Peace.:Mistakes? Such as? [15/06/09 00:08] .Muratus del Mur.:this could be solved by competition, territory splitting, or controlled fight anyway ... [15/06/09 00:08] .Muratus del Mur.:splitting the rpc team in two could solve a conflict for a loong time, but is it a good direction? [15/06/09 00:08] .Grido.:i dont think so [15/06/09 00:08] .Metal Bunny.:stop poking me? :P [15/06/09 00:09] .Muratus del Mur.:i mean, controlling the tension by controlling the groups directly and avoid letting them form [15/06/09 00:09] .Grido.:you would end up with each side fighting against the other [15/06/09 00:09] .Metal Bunny.:each has it\'s downsides and upsides [15/06/09 00:09] .Muratus del Mur.:a splitted team could allow any rpc to move from one side to an other, under certain situations only, and the fight between the two groups could be public and agreed too [15/06/09 00:10] .Metal Bunny.:the distinction lies in how far you let the inevitable fued go ... [15/06/09 00:10] .Muratus del Mur.:yes, each side against the other, thats the point [15/06/09 00:10] .Metal Bunny.: (teply? lol.. I thought you said nipple, cuz the dutch word for nipple is tepel) [15/06/09 00:10] .Muratus del Mur.:but not between themselves [15/06/09 00:10] .Pamplemousse.:Would it be mandatory to be in a group? [15/06/09 00:11] .Grido.:and you may still have in-house fighting [15/06/09 00:11] .Muratus del Mur.:well, you ARE in one right now [15/06/09 00:11] .Muratus del Mur.:the RPC group :D [15/06/09 00:11] .Raven.: (lol) [15/06/09 00:11] .Grido.:we already have territory based groups sort of anyway [15/06/09 00:12] .Muratus del Mur.:the ridiculous part is that there cant be any official reason for the splitting other than personal likes and dislikes, and that will look weird for the public [15/06/09 00:12] .Pamplemousse.:Hm, smartalec, I meant in the hypotetical splitting RPC thingy. [15/06/09 00:12] .Muratus del Mur.:yes, and territory based groups keep things together [15/06/09 00:12] .Muratus del Mur.:look, [15/06/09 00:13] .Muratus del Mur.:the fight between lands , keeps whats inside the land/group stronger together ..... or at least i was thinkign so untill loreroot proved the opposite, but lets not jump to conclusions yet [15/06/09 00:14] .Muratus del Mur.:the strength of a group is given by its separation from the rest, keeping groups in tension will make them more united [15/06/09 00:14] .Grido.:so i break things? LR ally, Golemus position? hehe [15/06/09 00:15] .Tarquinus.: (ha, Grido :) ) [15/06/09 00:15] .Muratus del Mur.:its logic... but, even if that will solve things by bringing in planed tension, i dont thing it will end up good for the rest, afterall, rpcs are here for the rest, not for themselves [15/06/09 00:15] .Muratus del Mur.:*think [15/06/09 00:15] .Peace.:Not the image we all saw lately, but yes. [15/06/09 00:16] .Muratus del Mur.:who are the main tension factors right now? [15/06/09 00:16] .Muratus del Mur.:i mean from the rpcs [15/06/09 00:16] .Muratus del Mur.:who is not agreeing with whom? [15/06/09 00:16] .Muratus del Mur.:can anyone make me a list please? [15/06/09 00:16] .Muratus del Mur.:maybe making a list will make things more clear too ... [15/06/09 00:17] .Muratus del Mur.:afterall you are not all fighting all ... [15/06/09 00:17] .Peace.:Yup. [15/06/09 00:17] .Grido.:amoran and akasha ... [15/06/09 00:17] .Akasha.:yes, me against a player that is against the game in private ... [15/06/09 00:18] .Peace.:If it is in private then keep it in private. [15/06/09 00:18] .Akasha.:private means ym conferences with MD players [15/06/09 00:18] .Muratus del Mur.:ok so we are havind this concept convo just for amoran vs akasha issue? [15/06/09 00:18] .Akasha.:influences the game, it is a problem..at least for me [15/06/09 00:18] .Zleiphneir.:its not private if its going out to a load of players about the game. [15/06/09 00:19] .Peace.:It seems so, Mur. [15/06/09 00:19] .Peace.:For now at least. [15/06/09 00:19] .Grido.:yeah [15/06/09 00:19] .Muratus del Mur.:O.o [15/06/09 00:19] .Zleiphneir.:no I dont agree [15/06/09 00:19] .Zleiphneir.:other people are agreeing with some thing amoran has said [15/06/09 00:19] .Zleiphneir.:a lot of people just wont stand up and be counted for what they actually think [15/06/09 00:19] .Muratus del Mur.:i feel like an idiot right now, trying to break an egg with a sledgehammer [15/06/09 00:19] .Zleiphneir.:i dont know why. are people scared or what? [15/06/09 00:19] .Zleiphneir.:Ive said it before ill say it again - this is the perfect time to air your issues. [15/06/09 00:19] .Tarquinus.:Who would that be, Z? [15/06/09 00:20] .Muratus del Mur.:ok so its not a 2 person issue, but a bigger conflict you say [15/06/09 00:20] .Metal Bunny.:trying to break an egg with a sledgehammer? lambchops, i am so stealing that [15/06/09 00:20] .Zleiphneir.:no. Im not being a scape goat for naming people. Not again. [15/06/09 00:20] :.Raven. pats Mur [15/06/09 00:20] .Peace.:I don\'t have any issues atm. [15/06/09 00:20] .Zleiphneir.:I refuse to be anyone\'s scape goat. [15/06/09 00:20] .Ailith.:lambchops [15/06/09 00:20] .Muratus del Mur.:ok, one sec pls, [15/06/09 00:21] .Muratus del Mur.:please think if there are any other issues at all, except this amoran/akasha issue thats actualy more and so on, but i want to know if that is what we should talk about or there is more [15/06/09 00:22] .Muratus del Mur.:? [15/06/09 00:22] .Pamplemousse.:I think that issue brings up other issues. [15/06/09 00:22] .Peace.:As for conflicts, I do not see another. [15/06/09 00:22] .Pamplemousse.:Which, is vauge, I know, but it has kind of spiraled out of control. [15/06/09 00:22] .Muratus del Mur.:true.. but is there any other separated from this one or not? [15/06/09 00:23] .Pamplemousse.:What do you mean by seperated? [15/06/09 00:23] .Zleiphneir.:mrd dont you have issues mate? [15/06/09 00:23] .Pamplemousse.:Lacking an opinion, or not effected by it? [15/06/09 00:23] .Pamplemousse.:I think we are all effected [15/06/09 00:23] .Muratus del Mur.:ok, it seems to me that a single conflict source can be something that can be cleared out NOW without concerning about a bigger mechanism [15/06/09 00:23] .Peace.:MRD went idle. [15/06/09 00:24] .Muratus del Mur.:yes PLEASE, think about what things are the problems, lets put it on a list then we can understand whats going on better [15/06/09 00:24] .Zleiphneir.:right. great. [15/06/09 00:24] .Pamplemousse.:Alright, list time... ... [15/06/09 00:25] .Muratus del Mur.:at this point we can invite in other characters if you think its important ... [15/06/09 00:25] .Pamplemousse.:I mean, I like lists not that I have a list of issues. ... [15/06/09 00:26] .Muratus del Mur.:people, dont dare to go offtopic with this ... [15/06/09 00:26] .Raven.:G\'nite. [15/06/09 00:26] .Pamplemousse.:Night Raven. [15/06/09 00:26] .Metal Bunny.:g\'night [15/06/09 00:26] .Muratus del Mur.:\"lol diseas\" therapy? [15/06/09 00:26] .Metal Bunny.:it\'s a roleplaying quest, was fun [15/06/09 00:27] .Metal Bunny.:still have to end it [15/06/09 00:27] .Muratus del Mur.:ok [15/06/09 00:27] .Muratus del Mur.:so ... [15/06/09 00:27] .Grido.:nigth Raven [15/06/09 00:27] .Muratus del Mur.:only issue we realy have is AvsA? [15/06/09 00:27] .Pamplemousse.:My issue is with the forum battles, the berating of rpc\'s by other rpc\'s in front of players. [15/06/09 00:27] .Metal Bunny.:yeah, it\'s undermining ALL the other rpc as well [15/06/09 00:27] .Pamplemousse.:And the drama. I hate that. [15/06/09 00:27] .Chewett.:That is a massive problem [15/06/09 00:27] .Pamplemousse.:There, those are my issues. [15/06/09 00:27] .Metal Bunny.:and that is very annoying [15/06/09 00:27] .Grido.:needs to be more private, be silly to think it wont happen, just not publicly would be good [15/06/09 00:27] .Metal Bunny.:that\'s my issue too [15/06/09 00:28] .Chewett.:People comment on the forum and then it gets worse [15/06/09 00:28] .Muratus del Mur.:is the forum thing connected to the avsa thing? [15/06/09 00:28] .Metal Bunny.:I really dislike people going out to the public and try and get support or make the other look bad [15/06/09 00:28] .Chewett.:Connected losely [15/06/09 00:28] .Grido.:well they raise it in the forum [15/06/09 00:28] .Muratus del Mur.:i am trying to understand if its a bigger picture here [15/06/09 00:28] .Pamplemousse.:It began with them, I believe. [15/06/09 00:28] .Metal Bunny.:partially, there were other conflicts that used the forum as well [15/06/09 00:28] .Chewett.:But posting problems on the forum is a bigger problem that one argument [15/06/09 00:28] .Muratus del Mur.:arggggg .. ok ... so [15/06/09 00:29] .Muratus del Mur.:lets solve this once and for all [15/06/09 00:29] .Metal Bunny.:yay [15/06/09 00:29] .Muratus del Mur.:Akasha is here, Amoran u here? (Grido bring in the Mud pit!) ... [15/06/09 00:30] .Muratus del Mur.:amoran? [15/06/09 00:30] .Muratus del Mur.:... [15/06/09 00:31] .Grido.:she just went offline on yim [15/06/09 00:31] .Peace.:Yup [15/06/09 00:31] .Tarquinus.:You can see where she might be intimidated in this forum. [15/06/09 00:31] .Metal Bunny.:was about to say that [15/06/09 00:32] .Muratus del Mur.:first, is this issue suitable to be judged by this RPC gathering or not? Am i involved in the issue so does anyone object against me conducting the trial (as funny as it might sound) [15/06/09 00:32] .Chewett.:I was talking to her and she was having comp issues [15/06/09 00:32] .Peace.:Actually not here. [15/06/09 00:32] .Peace.:This is something between you, Akasha and Amoran. [15/06/09 00:32] .Muratus del Mur.:anyone here on her side so we can continue? [15/06/09 00:32] .Tarquinus.:I do think it has the sense of unfairness. You are married to Akasha. [15/06/09 00:32] .Pamplemousse.:Why does this have to be about sides?! [15/06/09 00:33] .Tarquinus.:Amoran is getting faulted for a number of things that are not entirely her fault. [15/06/09 00:33] .Muratus del Mur.:yes, BUT i will not be the one taking decisions, i am puting this public and open to discussion [15/06/09 00:33] .Chewett.:Perhaps this should have been solved... in a more private area? [15/06/09 00:33] .Tarquinus.:I think it must be. [15/06/09 00:34] :.Akasha. thoinks if she should say about Tarq lovers or not [15/06/09 00:34] .Muratus del Mur.:normaly in a trial i dont need to explain my final decision, this time, because i was also accused (or was it just me that was accused?!) i will just ask you all to talk about it and see what comes up [15/06/09 00:34] .Tarquinus.:It is a personal opinion. This is not appropriate, to have it in front of all the RPCs. [15/06/09 00:34] .Muratus del Mur.:or how else to solve it? [15/06/09 00:34] .Muratus del Mur.:i am open to any sugestions [15/06/09 00:34] .Tarquinus.:Say what you want, Akasha. Amoran and I are friends, but we do not agree on everything. [15/06/09 00:34] .Chewett.:Simple. like the court [15/06/09 00:34] .Muratus del Mur.:private area? you must be joking [15/06/09 00:35] .Chewett.:she has a few people akasha has a few people [15/06/09 00:35] .Zleiphneir.:what isnt entirely her fault Tarq? [15/06/09 00:35] .Peace.:What about those who are neutral? [15/06/09 00:35] .Peace.:Jury? [15/06/09 00:35] .Tarquinus.:Being blamed for what Logan said, Z. [15/06/09 00:35] .Chewett.:No one is really neutral. thats the problem [15/06/09 00:35] :.Akasha. thinks of saying the private things ppl that love do [15/06/09 00:35] .Muratus del Mur.:i think there are a lot of people that can be objective here, in front of obvious things very few can pretend and take subjective sides [15/06/09 00:35] .Zleiphneir.:she agrees with everything he said. [15/06/09 00:36] .Peace.:What is Ailith then?! [15/06/09 00:36] .Zleiphneir.:she told a whole load of people all about it. [15/06/09 00:36] :.Akasha. hmm..no sex is just friendship , like brothers :) ... [15/06/09 00:36] .Tarquinus.:No, had she agreed with _everything_ he said, she\'d have defended his position. [15/06/09 00:36] .Peace.:Besides that :P ... [15/06/09 00:37] .Zleiphneir.:well then she shouldnt have continued to tell other people the same things he said out of her own mouth perhaps? ... [15/06/09 00:37] .Zleiphneir.:that would suggest she agreed with it and thought it herself [15/06/09 00:37] .Tarquinus.:How long ago has it been that she stopped doing that? [15/06/09 00:37] .Metal Bunny.:i\'m staying quiet here, listening to other people [15/06/09 00:37] .Tarquinus.:I personally tell her it is nonsense all the time. [15/06/09 00:37] .Chewett.:Ontopic people. MB please [15/06/09 00:37] .Muratus del Mur.:i am asking again, is this \"court\" suitable to judge this issue or not [15/06/09 00:37] .Zleiphneir.:I dont know because as soon as you seem like you are on the wrong side she stops talking to you. [15/06/09 00:38] .Muratus del Mur.:and by court i mean abyone here able to talk [15/06/09 00:38] .Metal Bunny.:no this court is not suitable imo [15/06/09 00:38] :.Muratus del Mur. searches for his silence spell [15/06/09 00:38] .Pamplemousse.:We are all ~very~ close to the situation. [15/06/09 00:38] .Peace.:O.o [15/06/09 00:38] .Tarquinus.:Of course she does. She feels alienated and singled out. [15/06/09 00:38] .Metal Bunny.:that is what i wanted to say [15/06/09 00:38] .Pamplemousse.:Even if some of us may not have chosen sides, we still have a stake in the outcome. [15/06/09 00:38] .Chewett.:no we are not able to judge. too many people [15/06/09 00:38] .Metal Bunny.:amoran partially reacts like this because she feels isolated [15/06/09 00:38] .Tarquinus.:Exactly. [15/06/09 00:39] .Muratus del Mur.:ok, but lets put the facts first, what is the issue we are talking about [15/06/09 00:39] .Zleiphneir.:if she felt strongly enough to say it to everyone, then she should be fine telling the people here [15/06/09 00:39] .Akasha.:i think she feels quilty and unable to lie in front of prove. [15/06/09 00:39] .Zleiphneir.:everyone talks about team work, openness is part of that [15/06/09 00:40] .Pamplemousse.:Why are we talking about this without her? Is she having computer problems? Or choosing to remain silent? [15/06/09 00:40] .Muratus del Mur.:can we please describe the issue?, i heard just bits from different people [15/06/09 00:40] .Grido.:comp problems chew said [15/06/09 00:40] .Chewett.:I was talking with her and was trying to help her fix some problems via yahoo and she just logged off [15/06/09 00:40] .MRD.:how aboiut the fact she came at me in yim accusing me of being part of it all, when in reality i was never in the yim conferance nor in game for the meeting afterwards. she feels everyone is out to ge [15/06/09 00:41] .Muratus del Mur.:pample, in my opinion, it happens like last time when logan accused me of theft and she stoped to take his side and disapeared from the conve [15/06/09 00:41] .MRD.:she feels everyone is out to get her maybe thats why she wont talk openly [15/06/09 00:41] :.MRD. [15/06/09 00:41] .Metal Bunny.:yup [15/06/09 00:41] .Pamplemousse.:Then we need to wait until she will speak, it is a one sided conversation then. [15/06/09 00:41] .Tarquinus.:She does feel everyone is out to get her. Putting her under a spotlight helps her... how? [15/06/09 00:42] .MRD.:i dunno but what i do know is all this has made me feel like i dont care about MD anymore [15/06/09 00:42] .Zleiphneir.:im sorry but that argument wont cut it with me. [15/06/09 00:42] .Zleiphneir.:if you have the balls to tell a shed load of people a conspiracy theory, then you should have the balls to state it clearly for all to hear. [15/06/09 00:42] .Peace.:True. [15/06/09 00:42] .Pamplemousse.:It\'s not fair that we speak about her without her here to hear it and respond. [15/06/09 00:42] .Metal Bunny.:I agree [15/06/09 00:43] .Muratus del Mur.:should we ignore the caused effects just because the cause its not here? [15/06/09 00:43] .Peace.:Then change subject until she returns? [15/06/09 00:43] .MRD.:She has eyes here [15/06/09 00:43] .MRD.:She knows everything we say [15/06/09 00:44] .Pamplemousse.:There can be no resolution without the involvement of the other half of the party. Otherwise, we are just bitching. [15/06/09 00:44] .Peace.:But no voice. [15/06/09 00:44] .Muratus del Mur.:yes, thats sadly true pample [15/06/09 00:44] .Akasha.:should i remembvr how bad she spoke behind my back about MD, Mur and me? [15/06/09 00:44] .Peace.:Then again, Change subject? [15/06/09 00:44] .Pamplemousse.:If she feels threatened, that is a shame too. But, this is getting us nowhere. [15/06/09 00:44] .Peace.:Please? [15/06/09 00:45] .Muratus del Mur.:but that also means she has the advantage of talking behind and come out only when its confortable for her [15/06/09 00:45] .MRD.:She is here now [15/06/09 00:45] .Peace.:If she has comp issues then give her time. [15/06/09 00:45] .Muratus del Mur.:yes? [15/06/09 00:46] .Pamplemousse.:Yes, I agree with Peace. [15/06/09 00:46] :.Grido. nods [15/06/09 00:46] .Muratus del Mur.:ok [15/06/09 00:46] .Akasha.: (thinks idle mode should have been activated by now...if not ...she will read the mess and go idle soon) [15/06/09 00:46] .Pamplemousse.:She needs to be here. [15/06/09 00:46] .Peace.:We did not gather here to just talk about this conflict, did we?! [15/06/09 00:46] .Tarquinus.:Logan wishes to join us, he says. [15/06/09 00:46] .Metal Bunny.:she would have read it anyway, the log will be posted later on [15/06/09 00:46] .Muratus del Mur.:anyway i wont let this issue fade away [15/06/09 00:46] .Peace.:O.o [15/06/09 00:46] .Akasha.: (there is always Invisbile on ym and helps you avoid unwanted disscussions) [15/06/09 00:47] .Pamplemousse.:No, it needs to be dissussed, and SOON. [15/06/09 00:47] .Muratus del Mur.:logan, sure [15/06/09 00:47] .Muratus del Mur.:anyone [15/06/09 00:47] .Peace.:Indeed. I agree with Pample. [15/06/09 00:47] .MRD.:Honestly, i think its time. ..... I am sending a PM to all RPC\'s here. Please take a moment to read it. [15/06/09 00:47] .Chewett.:Ah i see. she just emailed me. she is just runnning a scan of comp for any issues. so she may be a while [15/06/09 00:48] .Chewett.:FF is left open while she is running so it doesnt disturb scan. [15/06/09 00:48] .Peace.:Thought so. [15/06/09 00:48] .Peace.:It happens to me all the time. [15/06/09 00:48] .Akasha.:if she can run a scan and email you she can be on md also..or ym does not interfear [15/06/09 00:48] .Chewett.: (not that it should do anything but i dont think she is technical) [15/06/09 00:48] .Muratus del Mur.:no problem we can wait [15/06/09 00:49] .Pamplemousse.: *sighs* MRD, I am sad to read your message. [15/06/09 00:49] .Peace.:Did someone mentioned Logan? [15/06/09 00:49] .Muratus del Mur.:if you want anyone else invited to this discussion let me know playername [15/06/09 00:49] .MRD.:Sent to all [15/06/09 00:50] .MRD.:Manu, you will always be family to me. [15/06/09 00:50] .MRD.:You have shown me so many things, things i never dreamed of. Thank you [15/06/09 00:50] .Muratus del Mur.:mrd, [15/06/09 00:51] .Peace.:Mrd... [15/06/09 00:51] .Muratus del Mur.:is there any way i can convince you to reconsider that decision and not let yourself affected by the issue we are talking right now? [15/06/09 00:52] .MRD.:I have had that made for a week. Honestly, i want to ENJOY MD. I want to have fun again. [15/06/09 00:52] .Metal Bunny.:me too [15/06/09 00:53] .Metal Bunny.:this is bullcrap [15/06/09 00:53] .MRD.:Ive tried leaving Golemus, ive tried being alone. Everywhere i turn is drama and unhappiness [15/06/09 00:53] .Muratus del Mur.:i think your place as rpc is very valuable, so unless you plan to leave and become inactive, your place here should be as rpc. [15/06/09 00:53] .MRD.:I just want the fighting to stop [15/06/09 00:53] .MRD.:We are people, we make mistakes [15/06/09 00:53] .MRD.:We say things sometimes we shouldnt [15/06/09 00:53] .Peace.:We all want that. [15/06/09 00:53] .MRD.:We should not keep bringing it up [15/06/09 00:54] .MRD.:We should feel we can talk, TALK about anything [15/06/09 00:54] .Muratus del Mur.:if you remember what i told you, rpc is that thing you get when you allready have it, so what use will it be to get rid of the dots, it wont change anything ;) [15/06/09 00:54] .Tarquinus.:Hear, hear. [15/06/09 00:54] .MRD.:Not argue. Not break apart [15/06/09 00:54] .MRD.:We were ONE unit before RPC. We should be ONE unit [15/06/09 00:54] .MRD.:You are 100% right Manu [15/06/09 00:54] .MRD.:Dots does not change anything [15/06/09 00:55] .MRD.:We are PLAYERS above anything else [15/06/09 00:55] .Muratus del Mur.:they DO , but not for you, but for the people that look at them [15/06/09 00:55] .MRD.:YES [15/06/09 00:55] .Muratus del Mur.:anyway, i am not begging anyone to stay, i am just asking you not to take a hasty decision, because once you are out, you stay out [15/06/09 00:55] .MRD.:And we make ourselves look bad, and worst part, we are making MD look bad [15/06/09 00:56] .Muratus del Mur.:and it wont be possible to change your mind later [15/06/09 00:56] .Tarquinus.: (Logan says he is waiting) [15/06/09 00:56] .Muratus del Mur.:one sec [15/06/09 00:56] .MRD.:When i joined, i saw Wodin, and RJ, and MB, and Jonn, and Shoeps. And to this DAY i respect them more then anything [15/06/09 00:56] .MRD.:Can we say that the new players look up to us the same way? [15/06/09 00:56] .Muratus del Mur.:Hi Logan [15/06/09 00:57] .Peace.:It is the same way. [15/06/09 00:57] .MRD.:I can. But i cant say they look at us as a TEAM that way [15/06/09 00:57] .Pamplemousse.:Hi Logan. [15/06/09 00:57] Logan Marquis: *bows* Hello. [15/06/09 00:57] .Grido.:hey Logan [15/06/09 00:58] Logan Marquis: *hugs MRD* it sounds as if you are leaving, brother? [15/06/09 00:58] .Metal Bunny.:new players do not look up to rpc\'s as a team [15/06/09 00:58] .MRD.:We all were very close before we got \"dots\" [15/06/09 00:58] .Muratus del Mur.: (so he thinks!) [15/06/09 00:58] .MRD.:We need to WOPRK TOGETHER and be a team [15/06/09 00:58] .Metal Bunny.:well, i can hardly remember the game much before i got dots, so i can\'t really speak on that [15/06/09 00:58] .Akasha.:wow you call brother the one you steal from? [15/06/09 00:58] .Metal Bunny.:can\'t* [15/06/09 00:58] :.Muratus del Mur. searches for a rope to bind MRD to the gazebo pillar [15/06/09 00:59] .MRD.:Ana please dont bring that up [15/06/09 00:59] .MRD.:LOL [15/06/09 00:59] .MRD.:DAMN YOU MUR [15/06/09 00:59] Logan Marquis::-) [15/06/09 00:59] .Akasha.:Akasha please, in game i am akasha [15/06/09 00:59] :.Grido. laughs [15/06/09 00:59] .MRD.:Listen. We need to get EVERYTHING resolved now [15/06/09 00:59] .MRD.:All of us have issues, they need to be finalised now and move on [15/06/09 00:59] .Akasha.:if some like , loves to call me mur\'s wife or ana..i don;t :P [15/06/09 00:59] Logan Marquis: *nods at MRD* He and I cleared that up, did we not, MRD? [15/06/09 01:00] .MRD.:We did [15/06/09 01:00] .MRD.:Its ended [15/06/09 01:00] Logan Marquis:Indeed. [15/06/09 01:00] .MRD.:Amoran, you should feel liek you can speak. You should work this all out and end it [15/06/09 01:00] Logan Marquis:Am I allowed to speak now? [15/06/09 01:00] .MRD.:We are not out to get you, but you should speak for yourself and end it [15/06/09 01:00] .Metal Bunny.:you are [15/06/09 01:01] Logan Marquis:Thank you MB. [15/06/09 01:01] .Muratus del Mur.:MB, we are out to get her, because it seems without her we cant solve this and continue the discussion ... [15/06/09 01:01] Logan Marquis:It seems others are not done, I will wait. [15/06/09 01:02] .Metal Bunny.:uh.. was that MB to me? or a Maybe? [15/06/09 01:02] .Muratus del Mur.:smoking will kill you people, pfff, what am i gonna do with you .... LOL [15/06/09 01:02] Logan Marquis:to you bunny. [15/06/09 01:02] .Muratus del Mur.: (to you) [15/06/09 01:02] .Peace.:Kill us first?! [15/06/09 01:02] .Metal Bunny.:true, in that sense [15/06/09 01:03] .Metal Bunny.:but i trust you are not out to get her, in the sense of really attacking her [15/06/09 01:03] .Metal Bunny.:of making her feel bad etc [15/06/09 01:03] .Metal Bunny.:that wouldn\'t solve anything [15/06/09 01:03] .MRD.:Amoran, this is your time to speak, you really should say soemthing [15/06/09 01:03] .Metal Bunny.:it\'s the issue that needs to be solved [15/06/09 01:03] .Metal Bunny.:emotions /should/ stay out of it, as much as possible [15/06/09 01:03] Logan Marquis:May I ask a question? [15/06/09 01:04] .Peace.:Is she even back? [15/06/09 01:04] .Pamplemousse.:Yes, if we could stick to facts, not assumptions. [15/06/09 01:04] .Muratus del Mur.:well she attacked me, what i ask is to do it open so we can discuss things and not just react to them, otherwise my sward is sharper than hers , so its not good to want just a reaction from me.... [15/06/09 01:04] .Grido.:yes Logan [15/06/09 01:05] Logan Marquis:Thank you Grido. [15/06/09 01:05] Logan Marquis:What is the issue at hand? [15/06/09 01:07] .Muratus del Mur.: (brb) [15/06/09 01:07] .Grido.:the issue of rpc\'s arguing [15/06/09 01:08] .Grido.:specificly between Amoran and Akasha [15/06/09 01:08] Logan Marquis:the issue is RPCs arguing? [15/06/09 01:08] .Grido.:publicly [15/06/09 01:08] Logan Marquis:ahh so like in-game? [15/06/09 01:08] .Grido.:yeah, and in the forums in public areas [15/06/09 01:08] .Cryxus.:sup? [15/06/09 01:08] .Grido.:puts a negative view on rpc\'s in general [15/06/09 01:09] .Grido.:Hey Cry [15/06/09 01:09] .MRD.:It mainly started the day you refused to come in game for the meeting [15/06/09 01:09] .Peace.:Hey Captain! [15/06/09 01:09] Logan Marquis:If this issue at hand is RPCs arguing, why are RPCs specifically being targeted? If the issue IS RPCs arguing, then address it as a group. Please don\'t single out individuals. [15/06/09 01:09] .MRD.:I mailed mine to everyone m8 [15/06/09 01:09] .Peace.:I believe MRD that it started way before that. [15/06/09 01:09] Logan Marquis:Is not Akasha as much involved in the arguing as Amoran? [15/06/09 01:09] .Cryxus.:dont expect a whole lot from me, im at my sister\'s birthday, and ill probably slink off to the pub soon [15/06/09 01:09] .Zleiphneir.:BF Skinner Logan? [15/06/09 01:09] .MRD.:It did start but that is the issue at hand now Peace [15/06/09 01:10] .Peace.:What is a BF Skinner?! [15/06/09 01:10] .Pamplemousse.:We agreed that we would wait until Amoran could speak to discuss this issue. [15/06/09 01:10] .Grido.:Logan, both argue, we are waiting on Amoran to get back onto MD [15/06/09 01:10] .Tarquinus.:An experimental Psychologist, Peace. [15/06/09 01:10] .Pamplemousse.:She is having apparently having computer issues. [15/06/09 01:10] .Zleiphneir.:im sure he can tell you. he seems happy to tell everyone else. [15/06/09 01:11] Logan Marquis:Am I the issue here? Because I believe the discussion was Amoran and Akasha. [15/06/09 01:11] .Muratus del Mur.: (back - but just listening) [15/06/09 01:11] .Amoran.:The scan is still going, I may not respond too much. [15/06/09 01:11] .Grido.:yes, it was [15/06/09 01:12] .Pamplemousse.:I am wondering why we are talking about BF Skinner, too... [15/06/09 01:12] Logan Marquis:Thank you Grido. [15/06/09 01:12] :.Peace. jumps on google [15/06/09 01:12] Logan Marquis:I have been away from the game for quite some time. Nearly a month? [15/06/09 01:12] .Grido.:but Logan you seem to agree with many things that Amoran says ... [15/06/09 01:12] Logan Marquis:And that matters, why Grido? ... [15/06/09 01:12] .Akasha.: (because amoran and logan are making confs about BF Skinner and that Mur is doing the same to us) ... [15/06/09 01:13] .Muratus del Mur.:\"Skinner was listed as the most influential psychologist of the 20th century\" [15/06/09 01:13] .Peace.:O.o [15/06/09 01:13] Logan Marquis:I have been away. I was claimed to be an issue. I left, in order to remove \"the issue\". But it seems \"the issue\" remains. [15/06/09 01:13] .Muratus del Mur.:i think i should be honored not offended actualy, LOL [15/06/09 01:13] Logan Marquis:You should be Mur. [15/06/09 01:13] Logan Marquis:his work was revolutionary...at the time. [15/06/09 01:14] .Pamplemousse.: (wtf does BF Skinner have to do with Mur?) [15/06/09 01:14] .Muratus del Mur.:ok, so , i am ready to talk whenever you all agree , basicaly when amoran can too ... [15/06/09 01:14] .Metal Bunny.:you know what? [15/06/09 01:14] .Zleiphneir.:thats not how you have been putting it forward logan. [15/06/09 01:14] :Logan Marquis nods at Cryxus [15/06/09 01:14] .Metal Bunny.:I have been listening to this for 2 hours [15/06/09 01:14] Logan Marquis:What\'s that Bunny? [15/06/09 01:14] .Metal Bunny.:and I still don\'t know a lot about what happened with logan and amoran and Mur etc [15/06/09 01:15] .Metal Bunny.:all I heard was what others felt about it [15/06/09 01:15] .Metal Bunny.:and some other details I quickly forgot [15/06/09 01:15] .Akasha.: (i am crazy, i know here it goes again: amoran is doing ym confs about Mur brainwashing players brain like b skinner, logan is secounding her..or vice versa) [15/06/09 01:15] .Metal Bunny.:count me out of this discussion [15/06/09 01:15] .Metal Bunny.:I will ignore it [15/06/09 01:15] .Metal Bunny.:not in the mood for this ... [15/06/09 01:15] Logan Marquis: *nods at Bunny* Sad to see you not wish to participate in the discussion Bunny. [15/06/09 01:15] .Metal Bunny.:go to bed [15/06/09 01:15] .Pamplemousse.:I agree, Bunny, I don\'t know much about this either, I left the conference, and the meeting at wind\'s game didn\'t amount to much. [15/06/09 01:15] .Cryxus.:good luck on that [15/06/09 01:15] .Peace.:Nobody is actually, but it would be nice to get to the bottom of this. [15/06/09 01:15] .MRD.:Bye MB [15/06/09 01:16] .Peace.:And be done with it, please. [15/06/09 01:16] Logan Marquis:Aye. [15/06/09 01:16] .Muratus del Mur.:it seems this discussion concernes everybody since when i asked what the major rpc issues are , we ended up concluding that these things were the main issues ... [15/06/09 01:16] Logan Marquis:I am curious, what is the issue? [15/06/09 01:16] .Peace.:You? [15/06/09 01:16] Logan Marquis:We went from Amoran and Akasha to BF Skinner to other things? ... [15/06/09 01:17] .Zleiphneir.:thats all the same issue [15/06/09 01:17] .Metal Bunny.:I\'ll read the log later when my mind is up for it, afk now [15/06/09 01:17] Logan Marquis: *nods at Bunny* later bunny! [15/06/09 01:17] .Muratus del Mur.:so i cant see it as an isolated conflict as long as md and i am accused of things and rpcs start to quit or to argue because of it ... [15/06/09 01:18] Logan Marquis:The issue could\'ve died when I left. It would\'ve died when I left, but it seems others wouldn\'t let it. ... [15/06/09 01:18] .Peace.:May I say something? [15/06/09 01:18] .MRD.:I believe we all are waiting for Amoran to speak [15/06/09 01:18] Logan Marquis:I have even remained off the forums to ensure that my \"views\" were not put forth further. [15/06/09 01:18] .Muratus del Mur.:the situation as i know it, and i might be wrong so correct me if i am,.... Amoran started to tell people i am brainwashing md players like BF Skinner did and started to talk more and more into this, [15/06/09 01:18] .Zleiphneir.:You left before that YM conference no? [15/06/09 01:18] .Muratus del Mur.:backed up by logan and others too [15/06/09 01:18] Logan Marquis:I said those things Mur, not amoran. [15/06/09 01:19] .Akasha.: (she won;t speak as she can;t protect herself) [15/06/09 01:19] .Muratus del Mur.:akasha turned it all into a big fire and started to react way to violently [15/06/09 01:19] Logan Marquis:I had not Z. [15/06/09 01:19] .Cryxus.:me? i wasnt part of any ym conference [15/06/09 01:19] .Muratus del Mur.:thats what i know so far [15/06/09 01:19] Logan Marquis:I had left after it. [15/06/09 01:19] .Pamplemousse.:Amoran shouldn\'t need to \"protect\" herself. [15/06/09 01:19] .Tarquinus.:Agreed. [15/06/09 01:19] .MRD.:Not protect herself [15/06/09 01:19] .MRD.:Speak for herself [15/06/09 01:19] Logan Marquis:I have a simple question for you all. [15/06/09 01:19] .MRD.:She has said nothing about it [15/06/09 01:19] .Pamplemousse.:NO one should be attacked to the point of defense. [15/06/09 01:19] Logan Marquis:One very VERY simple. [15/06/09 01:19] .MRD.:She should be able to speak for herself [15/06/09 01:19] .Zleiphneir.:so you left after refusing to come in game and discuss something both you and amoran were saying to people. [15/06/09 01:20] .Pamplemousse.:That is what we are waiting for, MRD. [15/06/09 01:20] Logan Marquis:Z, you should desist from attacking me. I am going to speak, but you continue to push a specific thing. [15/06/09 01:20] .Zleiphneir.:because you are avoiding it. [15/06/09 01:20] Logan Marquis:Mur, in order to resolve this, please request Z to hold off until I\'ve had a chance to actually SPEAK what I think. [15/06/09 01:21] .Muratus del Mur.:i am not attacking anyone, even if i should, but lets say i take it as a compliment not an accuse,...but even so the issue still remains and i want it talked open and not behind my back , because its [15/06/09 01:21] .Muratus del Mur.:starting to affect to many people [15/06/09 01:21] Logan Marquis:i know mur, and we will. [15/06/09 01:21] Logan Marquis:i am just requesting Z to back off a bit so we can. [15/06/09 01:21] .Muratus del Mur.:ok listen [15/06/09 01:21] Logan Marquis:My question will clear a lot of this up very fast. [15/06/09 01:21] .Muratus del Mur.:y sugestion is that each one speaks ONCE, and say ALL what he has to say [15/06/09 01:21] .Pamplemousse.:This meeting doesnt need moderators it needs honesty. [15/06/09 01:21] .Cryxus.:alright, im gonna be gone for a bit, ill probably be back on in about 30 minutes but just for a short stint [15/06/09 01:21] Logan Marquis:Then who decides who speaks last Mur? [15/06/09 01:22] .Muratus del Mur.:i speak last :D [15/06/09 01:22] Logan Marquis: *nods* I\'m ok with that. [15/06/09 01:22] .Akasha.: (amoran staed it logan also, i have prove,like i have with the conference about my trial, and how Mur stole work .. you don\'t need to speak for herself) [15/06/09 01:22] Logan Marquis:Later Cryx! [15/06/09 01:22] .Cryxus.:if anyone wants to talk to me you can reach me on yim later, if i miss the meeting i dont expect to log on for a while [15/06/09 01:22] .Muratus del Mur.:pample [15/06/09 01:22] .Pamplemousse.:Yes? [15/06/09 01:22] .Muratus del Mur.:can you please save a copy of this chat [15/06/09 01:22] .Cryxus.:so this may be my goodbye for a while, later [15/06/09 01:23] .Pamplemousse.:Yes, I will pull it when all is said and done. [15/06/09 01:23] .Muratus del Mur.:exact copy, i will need a copy of waht each has to say so i can compare it later [15/06/09 01:23] .Pamplemousse.:Can Amoran speak yet? [15/06/09 01:23] .Muratus del Mur.:thanks [15/06/09 01:23] .Pamplemousse.:Gotcha. [15/06/09 01:23] .Grido.:later Cry [15/06/09 01:23] .Muratus del Mur.:are there any things that can be talked while amoran is away? maybe logans version? [15/06/09 01:24] Logan Marquis:aye, my version. [15/06/09 01:24] Logan Marquis:well, my question. [15/06/09 01:24] Logan Marquis:Mur, if you wish to speak on my beliefs, I will do that privately with you. [15/06/09 01:24] Logan Marquis:But anyways, may I now ask my question? [15/06/09 01:25] .Pamplemousse.:Come on, Logan, just talk. [15/06/09 01:25] .Muratus del Mur.:nono, privatly is not a solution ... we are talking this here and now especialy because of private talks [15/06/09 01:25] Logan Marquis:I am being respectful of others, pamps, my apologies. [15/06/09 01:25] Logan Marquis: *nods at Mur* As you wish. [15/06/09 01:25] .Muratus del Mur.:just, say [15/06/09 01:25] .Muratus del Mur.: (if you plan to ask me if i manipulate people i allready answered to that) [15/06/09 01:26] Logan Marquis:Is everyone allowed to voice his/her beliefs and opinions freely? Not just here, in-game, but anywhere. [15/06/09 01:26] Logan Marquis:I do not Mur. [15/06/09 01:26] Logan Marquis:I do not need to ask that. [15/06/09 01:26] .Muratus del Mur.:of course, allways [15/06/09 01:26] Logan Marquis:From Sage and Calyx\'s beliefs in spirit and sky. [15/06/09 01:26] Logan Marquis:there is a plethora of beliefs that exist in this game. [15/06/09 01:26] .Muratus del Mur.:try to avoid dirty words, but even those are accepted if you cant say it differently [15/06/09 01:26] :Logan Marquis nods at Mur [15/06/09 01:27] Logan Marquis:I for one am a Christian. That is the first many here will have heard of that. [15/06/09 01:27] Logan Marquis:You have some like Pample who are of a specific religion with specific beliefs. [15/06/09 01:27] Logan Marquis:And Peace who has another set. [15/06/09 01:27] .Muratus del Mur.:like 80% of the globe [15/06/09 01:27] :Logan Marquis nods at Mur [15/06/09 01:27] .Pamplemousse.:Whoa. You don\'t know anything about my beliefs, Logan. [15/06/09 01:27] Logan Marquis:I spoke my beliefs about the game. My opinions, my thoughts, my theories. [15/06/09 01:28] Logan Marquis:sorry pample, i should\'ve phrased that differently. [15/06/09 01:28] .Peace.:Correction, i do not have any set. I just don\'t believe in God. :) [15/06/09 01:28] .Pamplemousse.:No worries. [15/06/09 01:28] .Muratus del Mur.:it seems those theries were presented in a instigating way, accusing me and MD of brainwashing and other things, and therefor making people arguing and fighting [15/06/09 01:28] :Logan Marquis nods at Pample [15/06/09 01:28] Logan Marquis:One second please Mur, that I may finish? As you requested? [15/06/09 01:28] .Muratus del Mur.:what does religion have to do with this? [15/06/09 01:29] .Muratus del Mur.:yes [15/06/09 01:29] Logan Marquis:Thank you. [15/06/09 01:29] Logan Marquis:Religion is a belief upon some form of spiritual something. Whether it be God, gods, spirits, ghosts, demons, etc. [15/06/09 01:30] Logan Marquis:This game, from the moment you enter, presses upon a spiritual aspect. [15/06/09 01:30] Logan Marquis:I am not opposed to that, actually. [15/06/09 01:30] Logan Marquis:I quite encourage that. I found it intriguing and was very curious to dig deeper into it. [15/06/09 01:30] Logan Marquis:I put forth my beliefs on the game...the things that have happened, and continue to happen. things that were acknowledged and some that were not. [15/06/09 01:31] Logan Marquis:I was told I would be put on trial for those. [15/06/09 01:31] Logan Marquis:amoran is being put on trial here...for hers. [15/06/09 01:31] Logan Marquis:or is to be... [15/06/09 01:31] Logan Marquis:whatever. [15/06/09 01:31] .Muratus del Mur.:wait a sec.... [15/06/09 01:31] Logan Marquis:I am not returning to this game. [15/06/09 01:31] .Muratus del Mur.:are you done? [15/06/09 01:31] Logan Marquis:no. [15/06/09 01:32] .Muratus del Mur.: (k, continue) [15/06/09 01:32] Logan Marquis:You are the owner, the Supreme Creator of this game. Therefore, in-game, you are god. [15/06/09 01:32] Logan Marquis:You hold power in this game that nobody else will be able to. [15/06/09 01:32] Logan Marquis:And it\'s your game, so that\'s your perogative. [15/06/09 01:33] Logan Marquis:But I spoke my beliefs, and you challenged me to bring them into the game. I intentionally kept them outside it. [15/06/09 01:34] .Muratus del Mur.: (just let me knwo when you are done, i feel like exploding) [15/06/09 01:34] :.MRD. hides in his bomb shelter [15/06/09 01:34] :.Grido. joins MRD [15/06/09 01:34] .Peace.: (o.O) [15/06/09 01:35] .Peace.: (Stay away from red buttons) [15/06/09 01:35] Logan Marquis:Not just you, but others. [15/06/09 01:35] Logan Marquis:Whether you agree or disagree with my beliefs, to me, doesn\'t matter. [15/06/09 01:36] Logan Marquis:They are my beliefs. [15/06/09 01:36] Logan Marquis:Just as you have yours. [15/06/09 01:36] Logan Marquis:And others have theirs. [15/06/09 01:36] .Tarquinus.: (I must go. You all know how to reach me, I believe. Be well.) [15/06/09 01:36] Logan Marquis: (later Tarq) [15/06/09 01:36] .Peace.: (later dear) [15/06/09 01:37] Logan Marquis:Others have spoke theirs and have been also accused of basically \"treason\" and have left the game because of the attacks. [15/06/09 01:37] .Grido.: (later Tarq) [15/06/09 01:37] Logan Marquis:While I place no superficial value in that, it is a fact. [15/06/09 01:37] Logan Marquis:Whether it is acknowledged as such or not. [15/06/09 01:37] Logan Marquis:Mur, you are not a bad person. [15/06/09 01:37] Logan Marquis:I never, NEVER accused you of being a bad person. [15/06/09 01:37] Logan Marquis:I spoke my beliefs. Spoke to things I had heard. [15/06/09 01:37] Logan Marquis:And I was attacked. [15/06/09 01:37] Logan Marquis:I was ridiculed. [15/06/09 01:37] .Muratus del Mur.: (you indirectly did, when you said MD is build from stolen work) [15/06/09 01:37] Logan Marquis:I was berated. [15/06/09 01:38] Logan Marquis:I was destroyed character-wise. [15/06/09 01:38] Logan Marquis:And why? [15/06/09 01:38] Logan Marquis:Because I spoke what _I_ believed was true? [15/06/09 01:38] .Muratus del Mur.:ok, before you move on to other topics, i want to answer you to the ones so far before they get to many [15/06/09 01:38] Logan Marquis:I believed it. Still do. However, Mur, just because I believe and had heard from a source, that you have some work which wasn\'t yours, that doesn\'t made you a bad person. [15/06/09 01:39] Logan Marquis:Please no, you requested we all be allowed to speak one at a time. [15/06/09 01:39] .Muratus del Mur.: (ok) [15/06/09 01:39] Logan Marquis:Thank you, Mur. [15/06/09 01:40] Logan Marquis:Things said outside the game...are outside the game. They are not IN the game. [15/06/09 01:40] Logan Marquis:Therefore, you do not hold power over them. [15/06/09 01:40] Logan Marquis:You do hold power here in this game. [15/06/09 01:41] Logan Marquis:Which is why I told you that if you wished to deal with this, we could do it outside the game. NOT IN IT. [15/06/09 01:41] Logan Marquis:I don\'t want to see MD go boom. [15/06/09 01:41] .Muratus del Mur.: (its affecting the game thats why we are here, please continue) [15/06/09 01:41] .Akasha.:outside the game with INGAME players [15/06/09 01:41] Logan Marquis:But I like to think that players should be made aware of the psychological games that you have admitted to playing. [15/06/09 01:41] .Muratus del Mur.:let him speak please [15/06/09 01:42] Logan Marquis:Mur, I do respect you. You have been told otherwise, but I do. [15/06/09 01:42] Logan Marquis:you have programmed a game that opens the hearts, minds, and eyes of many people...people who need it. [15/06/09 01:42] Logan Marquis:You fill a void for a lot of people. Hurting people. Whether they will admit to it or not. [15/06/09 01:42] Logan Marquis:The game has a purpose. [15/06/09 01:42] Logan Marquis:You choose how it plays out. [15/06/09 01:42] Logan Marquis:And thus far you have done a pretty darn good job. [15/06/09 01:43] Logan Marquis:But, the primary point that draws people to this game is this... [15/06/09 01:43] Logan Marquis:that players inevitably change the game. Somehow, some way...they change the game. [15/06/09 01:43] Logan Marquis:I conclude with this... [15/06/09 01:44] Logan Marquis:That\'s only truth when it falls in line with what you want. Which coincidentally is not always a bad thing or a horrible thing. It\'s usually just fine. [15/06/09 01:44] Logan Marquis:Oh wait. [15/06/09 01:44] Logan Marquis:one more thing. [15/06/09 01:44] Logan Marquis:For those who do not know. [15/06/09 01:44] Logan Marquis:I accused Mur of using stolen artwork in the game. [15/06/09 01:44] Logan Marquis:I was given information from a specific source, which I will not reveal for their sake (no,they are not present) . [15/06/09 01:45] .Muratus del Mur.:point out one single piece of stolen art [15/06/09 01:45] Logan Marquis:The game uses it\'s own storyline. [15/06/09 01:45] Logan Marquis:The symbol that is at the background of every page. [15/06/09 01:46] .Muratus del Mur.:haha, i dint say thats md original art, thats a seal, not md seal, not presented as one, and its not imitated after the original its the original itself [15/06/09 01:46] Logan Marquis:is it no artwork used in the game? [15/06/09 01:46] Logan Marquis:*not. [15/06/09 01:46] Logan Marquis:and, to contend one more thing. [15/06/09 01:46] Logan Marquis:Does it not say Magicduel through the center of the symbol? [15/06/09 01:47] Logan Marquis:For those unaware, the symbol appears in and on the Necronomicon. [15/06/09 01:47] Logan Marquis:It is a book. [15/06/09 01:47] Logan Marquis:There are other symbols used throughout the game that are from it as well. [15/06/09 01:47] .Muratus del Mur.:come on, dont avoid it, you said i steal artwork, dont hide behind things like the seal or the symbol at the necro gate (wich is taken out and was also named like the original btw) [15/06/09 01:47] Logan Marquis:Those are artwork. [15/06/09 01:47] Logan Marquis:Someone worked on them, Mur. [15/06/09 01:47] Logan Marquis:And they are protected by copyright. [15/06/09 01:48] .Muratus del Mur.:i consider them public property [15/06/09 01:48] .Muratus del Mur.:no they are not [15/06/09 01:48] .Muratus del Mur.:if they are, its my mistake and i will remove them asap, but as far as i know using them its like using the christian cross, the curch will not claim copyright [15/06/09 01:48] Logan Marquis:That is what I was referring to Mur. [15/06/09 01:49] Logan Marquis:Perhaps I was incorrect, but do you now see why I wished to keep it private? [15/06/09 01:49] Logan Marquis:It was something small, that became big. [15/06/09 01:49] Logan Marquis:It was made to sound far worse than it was. [15/06/09 01:49] .Muratus del Mur.:nono its not small [15/06/09 01:49] Logan Marquis:Well, it is. [15/06/09 01:49] .Muratus del Mur.:accusing me of stealing others work is not small at all [15/06/09 01:49] Logan Marquis:Well, you borrowed it. [15/06/09 01:49] Logan Marquis:Without permission. [15/06/09 01:49] Logan Marquis:Does that sound nicer? [15/06/09 01:50] .Akasha.:Logan : The proof lies with players like Nelya, who had Inner Magic STOLEN from her. [15/06/09 01:50] Logan Marquis:She did. [15/06/09 01:50] Logan Marquis:She did more work on Inner Magic than anyone. [15/06/09 01:50] Logan Marquis:Now, a lot was changed. [15/06/09 01:50] Logan Marquis:And I do have proof of HER work. [15/06/09 01:50] .Muratus del Mur.:do you consider that you borrowed the cross you are praying at? its not about religious beliefs but its about symbols that are more important as knowledge and can not be considered ART [15/06/09 01:50] Logan Marquis:Some of which is still in use. [15/06/09 01:51] Logan Marquis: *smiles at Mur* I do not gain profit from the Cross. [15/06/09 01:51] .Muratus del Mur.:Logan, ... [15/06/09 01:51] :.Akasha. wanders where that work is..oh wait ! on the secret fantasy thingy, right..MAYBE or maybe NOT [15/06/09 01:51] Logan Marquis: (later Chew) [15/06/09 01:51] .Muratus del Mur.:nelya, did some innermagic documents, that were NEVER made public, in the time i was seaking for someone able to become judge of innermagic uses [15/06/09 01:51] .Grido.: (later Chew) [15/06/09 01:52] Logan Marquis:I have left the game, because I do not agree or approve of it. [15/06/09 01:52] .Muratus del Mur.:his work was never used in game [15/06/09 01:52] Logan Marquis:I have said my piece. [15/06/09 01:52] Logan Marquis:You are free to judge it as you will. [15/06/09 01:52] Logan Marquis:But I am done. Good bye. ... [15/06/09 01:53] .Muratus del Mur.:so nelyas work cant be considered stolen since its not used anywere, and it was made FOR the game. All the innermagic docs you see or that are at all in game are written by me, not by anyone else [15/06/09 01:53] .Muratus del Mur.:funny, he speaks so he can leave and avoid the reply [15/06/09 01:53] .Muratus del Mur.:oh, amoran too :D good [15/06/09 01:54] .Muratus del Mur.:since they want just my reaction and not a discussion this is what they will get [15/06/09 01:54] .Pamplemousse.:She just sent me a YIM saying her computer is broken. [15/06/09 01:54] .Peace.:Uh oh... [15/06/09 01:54] .Muratus del Mur.:yeah yeah [15/06/09 01:54] .Muratus del Mur.:why cant i believe that [15/06/09 01:54] .Pamplemousse.:Don\'t shoot the messenger. [15/06/09 01:54] .Muratus del Mur.:pample, this discussion will go public, so regardless if logan is hear to hear the answers , i will give them [15/06/09 01:55] .Muratus del Mur.:in order of the issues he raised [15/06/09 01:57] .Muratus del Mur.:free opinion about spiritual things and religion .... i allways encouradged that, i was born in a family splitted in two because of religion so i was never forced to believe anything. I allways claim [15/06/09 01:57] .Muratus del Mur.:MD to be neutral and open to anything [15/06/09 01:57] .Muratus del Mur.:thats because i respect beliefs even if i do not agree to them [15/06/09 01:57] .Amoran.:My computer is flipping out [15/06/09 01:57] .Amoran.:I need to get off [15/06/09 01:57] .Muratus del Mur.:i actualy respect people not beliefs, better said [15/06/09 01:58] .Muratus del Mur.:i never judged anyone for speaking freely, not even for acting freely, thats why we have this discussion right now actualy, because if i did , i would have eliminated the involved people before it rea [15/06/09 01:58] .Muratus del Mur.:reachied to this [15/06/09 01:59] .Muratus del Mur.:i judge people before they get to rpc, thats true, becuase i have to do that [15/06/09 02:00] .Muratus del Mur.:i do not judge them to fit with my own beliefs at all, and i do not punish them or persecute them if they are against either. I only react when theyr beliefs affect others [15/06/09 02:00] .Muratus del Mur.:for example, when logan \"believed\" stealing from a fellow rpc is good, i had to react [15/06/09 02:00] .Muratus del Mur.:next thing, [15/06/09 02:01] .Muratus del Mur.:you say these things are private and you presented your own opinion and that should not be public,.... [15/06/09 02:01] .Muratus del Mur.:i DO make a big difference between bitching behind my back and private opinion [15/06/09 02:02] .Muratus del Mur.:i take it as an offence that you think you can present things as private and that you try to hide behind \"private opinions\" [15/06/09 02:03] .Muratus del Mur.:private opinions that are talked to md members and instigate them , causing trouble for nothing, do concern me, and i dont care what you belive, its your right, but [15/06/09 02:03] .Muratus del Mur.:i do care what happens in md [15/06/09 02:03] .Muratus del Mur.:and i do care when you accuse me of things behind my back , pretending afterwards it was your private opinion ... [15/06/09 02:03] .Amoran.:Mur, may I say something? [15/06/09 02:04] .Amoran.:Without being harassed, ridiculed, etc. in any way? [15/06/09 02:04] .Muratus del Mur.:its private as long as you keep it provate, the moment you make it public to some, you should make it public to the one you accuse also , ...but i am not here to educate you [15/06/09 02:04] .Amoran.:I suppose not. [15/06/09 02:04] .Amoran.:I need to go [15/06/09 02:04] .Muratus del Mur.:no amoran, its my turn to answer all of logans afirmations [15/06/09 02:04] .Amoran.:Very well [15/06/09 02:05] .Muratus del Mur.:like i let him speak, i will answer them aswell [15/06/09 02:05] .Amoran.:Be well, Manu. [15/06/09 02:05] .Cryxus.:later tris [15/06/09 02:05] .Pamplemousse.:Goddamnit. [15/06/09 02:05] .Muratus del Mur.:if you leave , dont think i will wait anymore for your participation here [15/06/09 02:05] .Grido.:later Amo [15/06/09 02:05] .Peace.:Pample? [15/06/09 02:06] .Muratus del Mur.:last issue raised by logan, mindgames [15/06/09 02:06] .Pamplemousse.:I do not give a shit what issue started this, I only want it to be solved. [15/06/09 02:07] .Muratus del Mur.:i made md to learn from it, i said it countless times and i dont hide it, as any other game in this world, it has addiction factors, it has psyhological mechanisms behind, i can manipulate people, but [15/06/09 02:07] .Muratus del Mur.:its not my purpose [15/06/09 02:07] .Muratus del Mur.:if you consider me a insane scientist with the purpose of messing peoples mind, that like you said, entirely your opinion [15/06/09 02:09] .Muratus del Mur.:i dont knwo what else i can say against the accusation that i play mindgames with you, ... OF COURSE I DO ... but what you miss is that everything from commercial ads to the boss at the workplace do [15/06/09 02:09] .Muratus del Mur.:the all waiting during the md festival is also a mind game, if you like to call it so [15/06/09 02:09] .Muratus del Mur.:the waiting for the creature age is also a midn game, so that only those patient enough will benefit them [15/06/09 02:10] .Muratus del Mur.:where is the line between useful mindgames and insane once? who is the one to draw the line? if you do not like it, leave!, i am not holding anyone by force, ever [15/06/09 02:11] .Muratus del Mur.:what should i say, md appeared out of coincidence and i have no clue why it turned out so nice? saying i plan things to work out is like stating the obvious [15/06/09 02:12] .Muratus del Mur.:its both my duty towards the community , my pleasure, and your fun ... if you fear you will get drunk, dont drink...its so simple [15/06/09 02:13] .Muratus del Mur.:last issue, [15/06/09 02:13] .Muratus del Mur.:stealing art, [15/06/09 02:13] .Muratus del Mur.:i explained it once how each artists that worked for md worked, and how i coordinate the coincidences, and i wont go again over that, but ... [15/06/09 02:14] .Muratus del Mur.:the necro symbol was indeed a mistake i admited and took eventualy out. I was hoping to achive something with that, not steal it, but i ignored the fact that its actualy pure art [15/06/09 02:14] .Muratus del Mur.:so i took it out [15/06/09 02:15] .Muratus del Mur.:the back symbol of the site, has its reasons, so far i consider it as public property, like any spiritual symbol [15/06/09 02:15] .Muratus del Mur.:if it turns out to be art or belonging to anyone, i will remove it [15/06/09 02:16] .Muratus del Mur.:for example i cant reinvent the pentagram and talk about its meanings, just because its \"allready used\" ... md is not entirely pure fantasy as you know [15/06/09 02:17] .Muratus del Mur.:nelya issue is also cleared out, i also talked to nelya to make sure he is not thinking this bullshit too, and its allright [15/06/09 02:17] .Muratus del Mur.:anyway, i never used any of his writings [15/06/09 02:17] .Muratus del Mur.:i wish i did , but after this i will never will [15/06/09 02:17] .Muratus del Mur.:not his not anyones [15/06/09 02:18] .Muratus del Mur.:the things you put on your papers are yours, the fact you can put them there does not make them my own property but just your contribution to MD [15/06/09 02:19] .Muratus del Mur.:you cant say i steal from you just because you did something for MD to show me that you can do it [15/06/09 02:19] .Muratus del Mur.:except nelya, not sure what else can be, i ALWAYS payed for work done for the game, from drawings to text [15/06/09 02:19] .Muratus del Mur.:but seems its not enough for some [15/06/09 02:20] .Muratus del Mur.:it seems my biggest fears start to affect me, since this originality thing was one things i allways wanted to stand out in MD, that everything here is actualy original, not stolen or copied [15/06/09 02:21] .Muratus del Mur.:thats all i have to say [15/06/09 02:21] .MRD.:Mur, you should never feel bad about this game [15/06/09 02:21] .MRD.:In any aspect ... [15/06/09 02:21] .MRD.:What you have done is amazing [15/06/09 02:22] .MRD.:Dont let someone elses opinion discourage you in any way [15/06/09 02:22] .Cryxus.:i just wanna say something real quick before i go, if nobody minds [15/06/09 02:23] .Muratus del Mur.:i actualy realise that i got angry about something i should have anticipated, the agressive reaction, hidden behind the so called respect and private opinion, was something i should have anticipated [15/06/09 02:23] .Muratus del Mur.:yes cryx [15/06/09 02:23] .Cryxus.:whats that in reference to? i havent been here for most of the meeting [15/06/09 02:24] .Muratus del Mur.:accusations to me [15/06/09 02:24] .Muratus del Mur.:passed by like a football ball from amoran to logan, as if i am stupid or something [15/06/09 02:25] .Muratus del Mur.:i allways find it hard to decide where to draw the line between offence and opinion ... [15/06/09 02:25] .Muratus del Mur.:i was aiming for an \"opinion\" view, but logan and amoran seem not interested of hearing one [15/06/09 02:26] .Muratus del Mur.:well md should be fun, if its no longer fun, whats the point in staying ... [15/06/09 02:27] .Muratus del Mur.:i avoid to talk to people, and you know why? ..because, i dont want to be their \"purpose\" [15/06/09 02:27] .Muratus del Mur.:you dont need to make things to impress me ... [15/06/09 02:28] .Muratus del Mur.:you shouldnt get that from me, nobody should, and the second i get into anything with any player, i feel like that person is depending on me somehow, and thats bad feeling for me, because i know the f [15/06/09 02:29] .Muratus del Mur.:feeling is not mutual, and i cant be the hope or the target of your efforts, instead YOU should be yourself that target ... [15/06/09 02:30] .Muratus del Mur.:if you cant find that respect in the people around you and thats the issue indeed, then, stop or try harder, but dont mistaken the people around you by me. ... [15/06/09 02:31] .Muratus del Mur.:because a month means nothing will change when you return, its like vacation, but indefenetly it means you wish to quit,... i just want to know ... [15/06/09 02:33] .Amoran.:May I speak when you are finished, Cryx? ... [15/06/09 02:33] .Muratus del Mur.:yes amoran, please do ... [15/06/09 02:35] .Muratus del Mur.:\"hope\" is one thing that md is trying to teach me but i dont want to learn it yet... so i wont get involved with hope related issues myself , yet ... [15/06/09 02:35] .Muratus del Mur.:Amoran, please talk [15/06/09 02:36] .Amoran.:Very well. ... [15/06/09 02:36] .Amoran.:Mur.. I want to say that you have created a game that has astounded me, baffled me, and interested me since the beginning of my entering it. ... [15/06/09 02:36] .Amoran.:In the game you have a variety of people, many of them good people. [15/06/09 02:36] .Amoran.:Please, let me speak. ... [15/06/09 02:37] .Amoran.:There is no point in me even speaking. [15/06/09 02:37] .Amoran.:Very well. [15/06/09 02:38] .Muratus del Mur.:please let amoran speak, we have been waiting for this a looong time so SILENCE [15/06/09 02:38] .Amoran.:Thank you, Mur. [15/06/09 02:38] .Amoran.:As I was saying.. You have a variety of people in this game, many of them good people. [15/06/09 02:39] .Amoran.:A constant theme that I personally see.. is that injured people flock to Magic Duel. Whether it be an emotional injury or a physical injury- They come to MD seeking something. [15/06/09 02:39] .Amoran.:They do not come for harassment, they do not come for manipulation.. [15/06/09 02:39] .Amoran.:They come for a feeling that they belong. [15/06/09 02:39] .Muratus del Mur.:so MD is made out of handicaped people? [15/06/09 02:39] .Amoran.:Let me finish, please. [15/06/09 02:40] .Muratus del Mur.: (k) [15/06/09 02:40] .Amoran.:I did not say \'all\' now did I? [15/06/09 02:40] .Amoran.:These people.. some of which are RPCs, whether they admit it or not.. Come to..heal. [15/06/09 02:41] .Amoran.:You do not heal by hurting more. [15/06/09 02:41] .Amoran.:Broken people do not, nor ever will wish to be shattered even more. [15/06/09 02:41] .Amoran.:I enjoy your game Mur, I enjoy the scenes, the artwork, and once.. I enjoyed the story behind it. [15/06/09 02:42] .Amoran.:But what I do not enjoy is seeing these people, those who are broken, hurt even more. [15/06/09 02:42] .Amoran.:The way certain things were handled recently is beyond disappointing. [15/06/09 02:42] .Amoran.:Granted, I will not exclude myself from how I personally handled certain issues. [15/06/09 02:43] .Amoran.:But problems are not solved by creating more. [15/06/09 02:44] .Amoran.:I tried to help rather than hurt, and granted I have personal opinions about certain individuals that most likely will not change. [15/06/09 02:44] .Amoran.:But I am willing to drop and resolve all issues presented here today. [15/06/09 02:45] .Muratus del Mur.:but you do realise the main issues talked here today are because of you, because the others , inlcuding akasha, reacted to your actions [15/06/09 02:45] .Amoran.:If it means that those in the game whom I consider \'friends\' stop being harassed, stop being manipulated, stop being treated like literal dirt, I will resolve all issues presently. [15/06/09 02:45] .Amoran.:Mur, how many people have reacted to the actions of Akasha? [15/06/09 02:45] .Amoran.:Many. [15/06/09 02:45] .Amoran.:And many are disappointed with how she is handling things. [15/06/09 02:46] .Amoran.:That is all I have to say [15/06/09 02:46] .Amoran.:I need to go [15/06/09 02:46] .Muratus del Mur.:what i heard was exactly the opposite, i have complains that people were harrased by you (by akasha also , its true) , but about the issues you talk about, you were the one starting the harrasments [15/06/09 02:47] .Muratus del Mur.:manipulated? by me i suppose [15/06/09 02:47] .Amoran.:You may believe what you wish, but no one was harassed by me. [15/06/09 02:47] .Amoran.:I do not use those tactics. [15/06/09 02:48] .Akasha.: (and you run like an innocent girl, soon wil have a post on the forums about your swearings about me and backstabing..how would that fit to your plans?i suppose i should not make them public ... ) [15/06/09 02:48] .Muratus del Mur.:i heard mrd was, kragel was, others i cant remember the name of, but since they are not here to defend themselves , doesnt matter [15/06/09 02:48] .Akasha.:how was that topic called? oh \'burn the witch and me beeing the witch? \' [15/06/09 02:48] .Akasha.::D [15/06/09 02:48] .Amoran.:Kragel and myself have worked the issue out. [15/06/09 02:48] .Amoran.:The issue with MRD is a misunderstanding, and I have tried to work the problem out already. [15/06/09 02:48] .Amoran.:It seems he is still quite angry about it. [15/06/09 02:49] .Amoran.:Which is understandable. [15/06/09 02:49] .Muratus del Mur.:things remain damaged once you break them, you cant say you solve things out, because it doesnt relay matter once those things get to influence others too [15/06/09 02:49] .Amoran.:Mur, I did not break anything. [15/06/09 02:49] .Muratus del Mur.:you cant \"fix\" those that got affected of the cause fights, except those directly involved [15/06/09 02:50] .Amoran.:Nor am I the cause of the fights. [15/06/09 02:50] .Amoran.:I said an opinion, because I was sick and tired of seeing people- Kragel for example, be harassed. [15/06/09 02:50] :.Akasha. thinks to post some \'quotes\' from the conferenes about her and game [15/06/09 02:50] .Amoran.:Am I wrong to say what I think? Even if it is against what others percieve to be truth? [15/06/09 02:50] .Muratus del Mur.:Amoran, you made the terrible mistake of considering me your enemy, and accusing me or talking about me bad things, i gave you the chance of turning this into an \"opinion\" by making it public and open [15/06/09 02:51] .Muratus del Mur.:but you chose apearently not to [15/06/09 02:51] .Akasha.:neah..that will ruin the \'victim\' imagine .... [15/06/09 02:51] .Amoran.:Mur, you asked a player who has left the game to come back into game. When he refused you asked me to speak for him or to be silent. [15/06/09 02:51] .Amoran.:Thus, I refused to speak. [15/06/09 02:51] .Amoran.:That is all I have to say [15/06/09 02:51] .Muratus del Mur.:everybody has to wait for you, when its you that we talk about, you put logan to talk for you, you avoid me, so if you want just a reaction from me , you will get it [15/06/09 02:52] .Amoran.:My computer was having issues, the scan is paused so I can speak to you. [15/06/09 02:52] .Amoran.:And Logan did not come on to speak for me. [15/06/09 02:52] .Muratus del Mur.:i never harrased anyone , or manipulated, or threatened anyone, because he expressed his personal opinion on things, regardless how different it was than mine [15/06/09 02:52] .Amoran.:You did not, but Akasha did. [15/06/09 02:53] .Amoran.:And it has driven many, many players out of the game. [15/06/09 02:53] .Muratus del Mur.:but you must know when to draw the line between private opinion and talks behind the back [15/06/09 02:53] .Amoran.:Now I need to go. [15/06/09 02:53] .Amoran.:Be well, Manu. [15/06/09 02:54] .Muratus del Mur.:you accused me of things, and not as private opinion, but in front of people involved with MD, that realy concernes me [15/06/09 02:54] .Muratus del Mur.:you avoided an open talk about it, i had to find it out from others [15/06/09 02:54] :.Muratus del Mur. takes one of his monitors and throws it on the window to calm down, now, i am calm [15/06/09 02:54] .Akasha.:many players out of the game..same record i hear for more then 2 months...and that it is me the one causing..i am not oing confs about md, i am not backstabing i just simply pointed the wrong things [15/06/09 02:54] .Akasha.:OH [15/06/09 02:54] .Akasha.:she left, again [15/06/09 02:55] .Akasha.:is she afraid of faceing me or is just me? she leaves in hurry, returns to say something, her pc crash agaon [15/06/09 02:55] .MRD.:I purposely stayed away from all the conferances and the meeting JHUST to not be dragged in yet was still accused of being part of it. That is what aggitates me the most [15/06/09 02:56] .MRD.:I tried to stay away and ignore it and cant [15/06/09 02:56] .Akasha.:man, that must be hard to handle as a daily concern.. (like doing confs about me ataking her or me having or not having a spell :) ) ) [15/06/09 02:56] .Muratus del Mur.:maybe her pc works only in private meetings [15/06/09 02:56] .MRD.:Maybe [15/06/09 02:56] .MRD.:She could have a serious issue also [15/06/09 02:56] .MRD.:It happens [15/06/09 02:56] .MRD.:But, why is she so denfensive? [15/06/09 02:56] .Akasha.:maybe that\'s with all the confs she is doing about me [15/06/09 02:57] .MRD.:Why does she feel the way she does? [15/06/09 02:57] .MRD.:She doesnt actually answer anything [15/06/09 02:57] .Pamplemousse.:So, nothing got resolved. This is so frustrating. [15/06/09 02:57] .Akasha.:Let\'s answer some things, facts as amoran stated [15/06/09 02:58] .Akasha.:please mur, anser true or false: [15/06/09 02:58] .Muratus del Mur.:oh , a lot did [15/06/09 02:58] .Akasha.: (will be copy/paste from a usual/daily confs she is doing in ym) [15/06/09 02:58] .Pamplemousse.:It did? [15/06/09 02:58] .Akasha.:Amoran: But no, maybe if I stop sending in Artwork, I\'ll get demoted from RPC [15/06/09 02:58] .Muratus del Mur.:oh here it comes, british intelligence, fresh supplies [15/06/09 02:59] .Grido.:british intelligence? [15/06/09 02:59] .Zleiphneir.:team brit! [15/06/09 02:59] .MRD.:We just need to get all fo this resolved. [15/06/09 02:59] .Zleiphneir.:i had to. [15/06/09 02:59] .Grido.:you did Z [15/06/09 02:59] .Muratus del Mur.:well amoran contribution as an artist was much appreciated, while it was that is, but except some avatars back long ago, i dont know what she is talking about [15/06/09 03:00] .Grido.:she\'s not british... [15/06/09 03:00] .Pamplemousse.:I agree with MRD. [15/06/09 03:00] .Akasha.:answer please: how many drawings she has done to the ;site; ? [15/06/09 03:00] .Akasha.:4 [15/06/09 03:00] .Akasha.:Amoran: I\'ll simply stop doing anything to improve the site, I\'ll simply stop doing anything to make anyone happy. [15/06/09 03:00] .MRD.:I think she feels she is only RPC because of her drawings, not because of her role [15/06/09 03:00] .Akasha.:in her personal papers the names of the avatars [15/06/09 03:00] .Akasha.:yeah..a big lose for MD [15/06/09 03:00] .MRD.:Which we all know is not entirely true [15/06/09 03:01] .Muratus del Mur.:maybe by site she ment her personal papers? [15/06/09 03:01] .MRD.:No she meant MD itself [15/06/09 03:01] .MRD.:She will stop doing quests ect i believe3 [15/06/09 03:01] .Akasha.:Amoran: I do not want power in MD, I want to be left alone so I can do what I want. create stories- add to the game Amoran: Help improve it. Amoran: Apparently though.. according [15/06/09 03:01] .MRD.:\\But you should ask her, if she will say anything [15/06/09 03:01] .Akasha.:o the higher powers (manu, Akasha) Amoran: (etc.) Amoran: i am not allowed to do that. [15/06/09 03:01] .Akasha.:Amoran: So.. Amoran: I apologize for wasting my time on all of you. Sean Ringrose: *nods at chewett* [15/06/09 03:02] .Muratus del Mur.:anyway, idea is nobody got rpc in exchange of something, like art doing or so. IF the person was also an artist, like amoran, that was part of the things i judged for that role but never the only one. [15/06/09 03:02] .Muratus del Mur.:Its true however that some remained in rpc role because of other things [15/06/09 03:02] .Muratus del Mur.:but , i say REMAINED, not got into [15/06/09 03:02] .Muratus del Mur.: (eg, junior) [15/06/09 03:03] .Muratus del Mur.:and since amoran is new, her involvement with art, even if she is inactive now, has no connection to her rpc status [15/06/09 03:03] .Muratus del Mur.:as far as the site..... nobody worked on the site except me [15/06/09 03:03] .Muratus del Mur.:thats funny actualy [15/06/09 03:03] .MRD.:I believe she feels like she got it as Glor or BT did [15/06/09 03:04] .Muratus del Mur.:makes me think to stop using anything sent from the players at all [15/06/09 03:04] .MRD.:No [15/06/09 03:04] .Akasha.: (...) Amoran: I do not know why, I cannot speak for him. Amoran: But.. He will say \'yes, lets do this\' one moment and another he will say \'no, we can\'t do that, it isn\'t MD\' [15/06/09 03:04] .Muratus del Mur.:no, glor and bt did not get their rpc just because of drawings! [15/06/09 03:04] .MRD.:One person should not change how you do things. [15/06/09 03:04] .Akasha.:Amoran: I am starting to wonder if theres even a reason for me to continue drawing for MD, or working on my character concept or well Amoran: pretty much anything [15/06/09 03:04] .MRD.:WE know they didnt [15/06/09 03:05] .MRD.:She might be confused tho [15/06/09 03:05] .Muratus del Mur.:lol [15/06/09 03:05] .Muratus del Mur.:i am sorry if so [15/06/09 03:05] .MRD.:She might not be informed correctly, and that is why she needs to talk with us and work all of this out [15/06/09 03:05] .Muratus del Mur.:maybe she will think that she was kiked out of md because she stoped drawing then [15/06/09 03:05] .MRD.:But she for some reason wont [15/06/09 03:05] .Muratus del Mur.:that might make sense, for her, [15/06/09 03:05] .MRD.:Maybe [15/06/09 03:06] .Akasha.:Amoran: Mur telling us not to use the old lore is a complete disregard for anything anyone has ever worked on [15/06/09 03:06] .Akasha.:manu, dear, please stop tlling players what they should do [15/06/09 03:06] .Akasha.:! [15/06/09 03:06] .Akasha.:start respecting them [15/06/09 03:06] .Muratus del Mur.:O.o [15/06/09 03:06] .Akasha.: (disclaimer: it was a retoric thing) [15/06/09 03:06] .MRD.:LOL [15/06/09 03:06] .Pamplemousse.:I find this all very discouraging. [15/06/09 03:07] :.Zleiphneir. chuckle [15/06/09 03:07] .Zleiphneir.:why pample? [15/06/09 03:07] .MRD.:Very [15/06/09 03:07] .Akasha.:pamp..do you still have the chat log [15/06/09 03:07] .Akasha.:grido.. [15/06/09 03:07] .MRD.:However, thinking on it... [15/06/09 03:07] .Akasha.:z. [15/06/09 03:07] .Akasha.:chew.. [15/06/09 03:07] .Pamplemousse.:Which chat log? [15/06/09 03:07] .Akasha.:yoiu were all in there [15/06/09 03:07] .MRD.:How many people are causing this confusion? [15/06/09 03:07] .Akasha.:why shuting up [15/06/09 03:07] .Grido.:my name? [15/06/09 03:08] .Akasha.:no space for speaking? [15/06/09 03:08] .Zleiphneir.:no i didnt take a log of that chat. [15/06/09 03:08] .Pamplemousse.:I have it up until the point that I left. [15/06/09 03:08] .MRD.:Very few. But it is effecting all of us [15/06/09 03:08] .Akasha.:Logan also, [15/06/09 03:08] .Akasha.:nd more [15/06/09 03:08] .Akasha.:i have more chats like those [15/06/09 03:08] .Akasha.:please start o speak and not hide [15/06/09 03:09] .Pamplemousse.:Ok, but why can\'t we just move on from those and start getting along? [15/06/09 03:09] .Muratus del Mur.:thats called instigation to riot, hmmmm [15/06/09 03:09] .Pamplemousse.:And I don\'t just mean the A\'s. [15/06/09 03:09] .MRD.:Amoran needs to speak for herslef [15/06/09 03:09] .MRD.:But she wont [15/06/09 03:09] .Muratus del Mur.:i think she just did [15/06/09 03:09] .Akasha.:i needed to speak to myself whe she makes ym confs about me [15/06/09 03:09] .Akasha.:Mur about the game [15/06/09 03:09] .Akasha.:and so on [15/06/09 03:09] .Muratus del Mur.:i presume thats all she has to say [15/06/09 03:10] .Akasha.:we all need to speak by ourself [15/06/09 03:10] .Pamplemousse.:Yes, I totally understand Akasha, I would want to speak out too. [15/06/09 03:10] .Pamplemousse.:And I don\'t know why Amoran won\'t. [15/06/09 03:10] .Akasha.:if we are for the GAME not SITE we must be united, if we speak about a consipracy in this game...why bother entering? [15/06/09 03:10] .Pamplemousse.:I believe she feels threatened, which I understand too. [15/06/09 03:10] .Akasha.:or is hjust me and the others crazy? [15/06/09 03:10] .Grido.: *sighs* have to go sleep now, nigth all [15/06/09 03:10] .Zleiphneir.:night Grido. [15/06/09 03:11] .Pamplemousse.:Bye Grido. [15/06/09 03:11] .MRD.:I also must leave. I feel very discouraged and disappointed we did not resolve anything [15/06/09 03:11] .Muratus del Mur.:you know , right now i am thinking if this could be taged as treason, and finalised into something terrible for amoran, or should be tagged as odd incident/ private opinion and forgotten [15/06/09 03:11] .MRD.:I honestly hope we can get this all worked out and put it behind we [15/06/09 03:11] .MRD.:us* [15/06/09 03:11] .Pamplemousse.:Bye MRD. [15/06/09 03:11] .Akasha.:threathened? why? she done all that FOR the SITE so she must suffer the results . she separated us in groups..if you do not *nod* you are not in a ym confs anymore [15/06/09 03:12] .Zleiphneir.:akasha is right. [15/06/09 03:12] .MRD.:I think we should not target her until she has spoken COMPLETELY about her side [15/06/09 03:12] .Akasha.:she spoke abotu all of us in ym and on our back [15/06/09 03:12] .Muratus del Mur.:funny, i remember one of the positive points of amoran for rpc promotion was the all ymsg initiative thing [15/06/09 03:12] .Akasha.:he done nothing good to MD why bother when she has no time for us? [15/06/09 03:12] .MRD.:Yup [15/06/09 03:13] .Akasha.:she spoke her side [15/06/09 03:13] .MRD.:Well honestly at this point, my opinion is not good about her or what should happen to her [15/06/09 03:13] .Pamplemousse.:I think everyone here has done something good for MD. [15/06/09 03:13] .MRD.:I applaud Mur for not booting her already [15/06/09 03:13] .Muratus del Mur.:mrd, i dont think thats ok, because when you do something bad in RL you get to court and judged even if you refuse to talk [15/06/09 03:13] .MRD.:Im off, everyone have a pleasant evening [15/06/09 03:13] .Akasha.:now , if i start make public all the confs about how bad the game is..will you still wait for her talk? [15/06/09 03:13] .Akasha.:BTW: she does not have time... [15/06/09 03:13] .MRD.:Yes Mur you do [15/06/09 03:13] .Zleiphneir.:bye MRD [15/06/09 03:14] .MRD.:And if i was you i would have at MINIMUM removed her RPC by now [15/06/09 03:14] .MRD.:But you are more open and respectful [15/06/09 03:14] .MRD.:Must go bye all [15/06/09 03:14] .Zleiphneir.:i have said exactly the same thing MRD has just said, before. [15/06/09 03:14] .Muratus del Mur.:yeah, but killing out the heretics is not solving anything, just hiding the issues , in my opinion [15/06/09 03:15] .Akasha.:when someone is holdin an official positin in MD and influencing bad speaking bad about the game, what should be done? [15/06/09 03:15] .Muratus del Mur.:i am a heretic myself, should i be burned for the things i will write in my book? :D ... but still... if opinions cant be judged, actions CAN [15/06/09 03:15] .Akasha.:when groups are made and theories are putted in minds? [15/06/09 03:15] .Akasha.:bad one? [15/06/09 03:16] .Muratus del Mur.:QUESTION: [15/06/09 03:17] .Muratus del Mur.:theoreticaly speaking, and not considering the current issue, should RPCs be allowed to have opinions against MD? considering that their position implies authority and respect granted by MD to them so [15/06/09 03:17] .Muratus del Mur.:they cna influence other MD players [15/06/09 03:17] .Akasha.:like the ones that Amoran and Logan have? =)) [15/06/09 03:17] .Zleiphneir.:opinions against MD is totally different to what happened in my opinion. It has been worded very cleverly to appear that way. but it isnt. [15/06/09 03:18] .Akasha.:and hold the official, important positions? [15/06/09 03:18] .Akasha.:NO [15/06/09 03:18] .Pamplemousse.:Yes, I think it depends on the opinion, but there is no way to regulate that. [15/06/09 03:18] .Akasha.:right, like: Mur has created a manipulated experimanted brainwashed game [15/06/09 03:19] .Akasha.:...that is messed up.. [15/06/09 03:19] .Pamplemousse.:Logan and Amoran leveled highly subjective allegations against Mur. [15/06/09 03:19] .Akasha.:especially when it comes from a RPC..it\'s even MORE messed up [15/06/09 03:19] .Pamplemousse.:I agree. RPC need to muzzle themselves sometimes. [15/06/09 03:19] .Muratus del Mur.:i respect any opinion like i said, its the right of each one to say anything [15/06/09 03:20] .Pamplemousse.:As painful as it may be, you always have to think about appearance versus reality. [15/06/09 03:20] .Pamplemousse.:And by \"you\" I mean all of us. [15/06/09 03:20] .Muratus del Mur.:but i am asking if in a \"created\" position, like RPC, if we can have a set of rules that can force you to chose between RPC and that [15/06/09 03:21] .Muratus del Mur.:for example, you cant be a priest of the church and claim publicly you dont believe in god [15/06/09 03:21] .Zleiphneir.:I dont think thats a good plan.... [15/06/09 03:21] .Akasha.:imo, if ou become rpc you have faith, love the game and enjoy playing it. [15/06/09 03:21] .Muratus del Mur.:your opinion will be respected but you will no longer be a priest [15/06/09 03:21] .Akasha.:that is the definition, imo of an rpc [15/06/09 03:21] .Ailith.:I think that assumption and prejudice against Mur or the game should not be spread to players. It harbors paranoia and division... but not a set of rules [15/06/09 03:22] .Zleiphneir.:there has to be some leeway, otherwise RPCs will never gel with disgruntled players, if we cant empathise at all. [15/06/09 03:22] .Zleiphneir.:if that makes any sense. [15/06/09 03:22] .Pamplemousse.:Yes, Z, it does. [15/06/09 03:22] .Muratus del Mur.:i can put it as a rule, that having opinions against md cant go together with the rpc status,since that status is ment to help the game not attack it [15/06/09 03:22] .Ailith.:I think that saying MD is boring today is different from Mur stole something, so yes there should be leeway [15/06/09 03:23] .Ailith.: (not that I think MD is boring tis an example :P) [15/06/09 03:23] .Pamplemousse.:But how can you control it, Mur? What is harmful and what is just opinion? [15/06/09 03:23] .Muratus del Mur.:i think the accusations were more severe than that [15/06/09 03:23] .Ailith.:Yes they were [15/06/09 03:23] .Muratus del Mur.:hmm, well in amoran case i consider it harmfull because of the caused reactions [15/06/09 03:24] .Muratus del Mur.:but in general its hard to say [15/06/09 03:24] .Pamplemousse.:But then shouldn\'t everyone involved be punished too? [15/06/09 03:24] .Muratus del Mur.:and i dont want to bring in the inquisition either :D [15/06/09 03:24] .Zleiphneir.:amoran didnt just have opinions... [15/06/09 03:24] .Zleiphneir.:that was like a little mini revolution or something... [15/06/09 03:24] .Muratus del Mur.:no, because the punishment consists of rpc demotion [15/06/09 03:24] .Zleiphneir.:it hit a point that went too far [15/06/09 03:24] .Muratus del Mur.:and the others were not rpcs [15/06/09 03:24] .Pamplemousse.:I mean, it spiraled out of control, she was in the center, yes, but lots of people were drawn in. [15/06/09 03:25] .Muratus del Mur.:think about it, i need someone to temper me, or else i will react as anyone should on what logan told me *points to the big red button named DELETE* [15/06/09 03:26] .Muratus del Mur.:open it for vote, reason me into it, i dont know .... [15/06/09 03:26] .Pamplemousse.:If you impose the muzzle, people will revolt. [15/06/09 03:26] .Muratus del Mur.:i want to take an action regarding this and fast [15/06/09 03:26] .Akasha.:revolt because you simply protect the game, belifes, our work and us? [15/06/09 03:26] .Pamplemousse.:Rpc versus Rpc should be private. [15/06/09 03:27] .Muratus del Mur.:some things realy got on my nerves, sometimes i ask myself if its any good to try to understand people when i can simply act [15/06/09 03:27] .Akasha.:pamp, let me ask you something: [15/06/09 03:27] .Zleiphneir.:I am with MRD on this. [15/06/09 03:27] .Pamplemousse.:I like to think that I protect the game and contribute. [15/06/09 03:27] .Akasha.:how does this sound to you : \'do something to yourself\' [15/06/09 03:28] .Akasha.:now, we are grounups, amoran....loves me...and done that in public [15/06/09 03:28] .Muratus del Mur.:its funny... that logan was demoted for a completely different thing, but now i think he realy deserved it from many points of view ..... but i still respect his involvement so far its true [15/06/09 03:28] .Pamplemousse.:I don\'t understand, Akasha. [15/06/09 03:28] .Akasha.:i NEVER got personal in public :) blame me for her mistakes.. [15/06/09 03:28] .Akasha.:that was what amoran advised me on forums [15/06/09 03:29] .Akasha.:not to say other words/expresions [15/06/09 03:29] .Pamplemousse.:I am not blaming anyone, I think we all had a hand in this situation, I am not pointing fingers. [15/06/09 03:29] .Akasha.:so i think that it escaleds too much..respect v s insults, shitting in MD image [15/06/09 03:29] .Pamplemousse.:Maybe this needed to happen. [15/06/09 03:29] .Akasha.:backtasbing and all [15/06/09 03:29] .Akasha.:trying to post the innocent girl at the end [15/06/09 03:29] .Pamplemousse.:Maybe we all needed to get kicked in the face to wake us up. [15/06/09 03:30] .Pamplemousse.:RPC control the image of MD. [15/06/09 03:30] .Muratus del Mur.:yes if we are to point fingers, a lot can be blamed of a lot of things, i was talking about more general concepts, if a rpc should or should not be allowed to have private opinions agaisnt MD as long [15/06/09 03:30] .Muratus del Mur.:as its an rpc [15/06/09 03:30] .Akasha.:wake me up : SHe is friking killing the \'site\' [15/06/09 03:30] .Pamplemousse.:Who is the RPC sharing opinions with though? [15/06/09 03:31] .Akasha.:rpc=role playing character= MD character = Loyal to mD- imo not against so no against oppinions [15/06/09 03:31] .Pamplemousse.:I mean, in general. [15/06/09 03:31] .Muratus del Mur.:what i dont understand, is how all this goes with the level of involvement i see in her, because Amoran seems to me at least realy realy involved, even if its now in a bad way [15/06/09 03:31] .Muratus del Mur.:that puzzles me [15/06/09 03:32] .Zleiphneir.:yea i dont get that either. [15/06/09 03:32] .Akasha.:no, unfortunatly she playes her role in ym , latly not in MD [15/06/09 03:32] .Akasha.:but when in MD stays in the tower, not her role place with both amoran and kalamoira and \'lovin\' Tarq [15/06/09 03:32] .Akasha.:so..how is she playing her RPC role? [15/06/09 03:32] .Muratus del Mur.:i think thats the only thing keeping me of taking a drastic action.... [15/06/09 03:34] .Muratus del Mur.:anyway , since it reached this level, i dont want it to fade away and be forgotten, it needs to be solved so that it created a precedent and so we know what to do in other similar situations in the fu [15/06/09 03:34] .Muratus del Mur.:future [15/06/09 03:34] .Muratus del Mur.:md cant afford many of such conflicts [15/06/09 03:35] .Muratus del Mur.:i am off for tonight [15/06/09 03:35] .Pamplemousse.:Goodnight Mur. [15/06/09 03:35] .Muratus del Mur.:Good night --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talos Salvitore Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) Wait wait wait...did the individual who had claimed their work was copied/stolen bring up the claims themselves? It kind of seems a little stupid to believe that someone who would feel so adamant about said issue would simply leave it to somebody else. I think the same issue arose in a separate incident not more than a few weeks ago. I might not be a big city lawyer...but I believe that if the image itself isn't being profited upon and the original artist is already aware of its use and has taken no action, then the cause to bring action against the party/parties involved is just...weird. Also, in several instances, browser games end up mimicking each other through no fault of their own. It just kind of happens when someone is influenced or inspired by another's work. This whole thing is just...ugh. It's like an orgy of rage...rage and something unpleasant. Edited June 15, 2009 by Talos Salvitore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 What a nice read... i guess i'm entitled to sharing my opinion here as the topic is public and not closed, so here we go: 1. i think opinions against MD are fine even for an RPC, if they get too strong, they leave, and after all, this is not a childrens community where you get people to share your opinion by handing out cookies or using photoshop to make Mur have vampiric teeth and devil's horn... every one of us should be bright enough to have a own opinion and should be strong enough to stand up for it at any given point in time in a PUBLIC forum, where you face the problem of being stoned when your ideas are the wrong ideas, but have the opportunity to change something i style if there are enough voices to back you up. Mur is a God, yes, but he is a reasonable guy, and if you offer solutions which are good, he will consider them. However, this can not be done in privacy, becasue rebeling against a God is the most pointless thing you can do, which brings me straight to point 2. Peepz, NO to private ym conferences about the game and NO to RPC-chats and forums!! If you want to fight and bitch at each other about something, YOU, the RPCs, should of all players have the least troubles in doing so!! Mur is not killing people for voicing opinions, he is not even demoting RPCs for voicing opinions, as long as there are productive steps one can see in them. Mere bitching about is pointless and should therefore be discouraged, not by Mur, who is God and therefore in a position in which he can too easily help people who are acting the Martyr without even wanting that, but by the community, who is entitled to stay away from people they don't like for any reason at all, putting a social pressure on those who decide to bitch around... no matter how many such persons are hiding out there, they will give up sooner or later as having fun with others is better than staying in their tower and marking the emo all the time 3. As already mentioned above, i think that no actions need to be taken against Amoran, no matter what she did or didn't do, as ONLY Mur has powers to change major things in here, and he is above all the things Amoran could do. If she wants to drive players away by telling them that Mur is an evil, mad scientist toying with us all, please let her do so, she won't capture people who have all their marbles together with such weak arguments, as the core of the players, those who log in regularly, stay for long times and actually do something in the game are more than willing to participate in any experiment Mur has to offer, else they'd just leave, like so many great figures did as they realized that their world was moving on without them! 4.This might seem out of context, but isn't: If all RPCs were sharing Mur opinion on all things, we wouldn't need them, so let them have their own opinion and share them with the world (IN the world, and not outside it through YM or private forums, MD has chats for open things, PMs for planning conspiracies and other private things [you don't really think that Mur reads them, do you? LOL] and the forums for things that need wider public knowledge, this should be more than enough for all of us to say what needs to be said... Hiding opinions and plotting against a untouchable ruler is the most stupid thing you can do, so just don't do it, guys and gals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dst Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Err...will the rest of us (the ones that overslept) be able to read the discussion? LE: I am able to. Thanks Akasha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriskah Arcanu Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) I totaly agree on the necesity to be open about things, transparent. This is mostly a grown up game so it will be a shame if we cannot work togeder even with our diferent opinions. To be able to put our egos a side for the MD community sake is really a grown up thing to do right now. This modest attitude migh be a good example to all. Well... we have so many differents things to do on MD now... like... have fun? Regards, K Edited June 15, 2009 by Kriskah Arcanu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granos Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 So then its clear, it should be settled in a mad max style battle in a mud pit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittiness Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) [b][u]Amoran vs Akasha: Two Points[/u][/b] [b]First[/b], Akasha should stop talking... I get the impression that she is just out to get Amoran punished. I do not tell Khalazdad how to run Necrovion, I do not tell my boyfriend how to drive his car, Akasha should not tell Mur how to run MD. If she feels there is something Mur should know and do something about, she should just give him the information she have(in this case, the chat logs she claim to possess, and links to relevant forum threads), give him her suggestion and be done with it. Akasha bashing Amoran and making sarcastic comments were not helpful. [b]Second point.[/b] Obviously there are unhappy people, people with complaints. and considering the issues involved(strongly affecting MD, Mur himself being accused), they should talk directly with Mur, and Mur need to ask them "what are you hoping to achieve with the complaints?" and "what do you want to see done?" If they are able to provide practical answers and solutions, then, either Mur agrees to work with them, or they can drop the issues or leave MD. Amoran's "I don't want to see anyone hurt/manipulated" is highly uninformative. If she have suggestions for what can be done, she should say it, if there is a specific behavior/action she want stopped, she should say it. [b][u]RPC Meetings: Because the current system is obviously not working[/u][/b] Perhaps a system could be implemented, where RPC are free to have their discussions among themselves and such as they wish, but when Mur's decisions are needed, instead of him coming to a meeting like this, each of those that feel they have something to say about the issue will submit to him a "proposal". It will both be their vote on the issue and their statement/explaination of their position, and of what they know, etc. The length of their proposal should of course be as short and concise as possible, with a limit on its maximum length. The proposals will be submitted publicly but will not be up for debate/arguement. Mur can then make a decision, ask for individual clarifications, or ask for all participants to submit a second round of proposals. [b][u]RPC in-fighting:[/u][/b] I have no solution for this yet, but hopefully when there is a clear system for resolving disputes, things will not get out of hand or get blown out of proportion. Edited June 16, 2009 by Kittiness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Greycloth Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 There are two major issues at hand. The first is the RPCs and their respect for each other. When you throw a bunch of incredibly different personalities into a bowl and start mixing them, the sugar and the cinnamon mix beautifully, but when you start mixing the sugar and the salt, it does not work to well. What we need here is not a Code of Conduct, or a set of rules for them to follow, but a sense of a team. I am not aware of exactly what RPCs do, but from what I know, they are meant to be their own sort of living Guide. A mentor of sorts. But that does not seem to be working. Something needs to be done about this... Perhaps they get together and write up an event? Or an rp with each other? Something that they can have fun with. They seem to have forgotten what it is like to be a player, and what made them RPC material... As for Amoran and Akasha. Akasha. I hate to say this, but you are not dealing with this as it should be dealt with. I like you. You are awesome! Buuuuut... you have a problem with dealing with situations in a controlled manner. You get irritated quite fast. I don't know how you deal with the majority of issues that arise(like LHO issues), but the ones that I know about were handled quite poorly. I am not saying this is how you react to every mail, question or irritation... but this one has not been done so well. I know that when someone trashes something your husband has worked his life and soul into, I would get extremely upset as well, but you have to think about it rationally and not deal with it on impulse. I am sorry if this offends you but this is how I, and I am sure a few others, see it. Amoran was given this idea that Mur is trying to manipulate us all through experiments and what not. He is. So am I. Everything I say has an intentional response. Mur is doing the exactly the same thing as every other company. For example, why make the colour scheme warm colours? Why not neon colours? It is pleasing to the eye, and therefore it allows the players to want to come back, not avoid it. This is called marketing and research. Every company does it. What was wrong here though, is that Amoran tried getting a lot of people to believe in her. I am not sure if this succeeded or not, because I am no longer "in the loop" of the going ons in MD. So, I am guessing it failed. What she did was wrong, does it deserve a punishment? That is not up to me to decide. Should she retain her spot as RPC? I do not think so. She tried using her spot as RPC in an extremely negative way. Loss of that responsibility is a must in my opinion. The art thing, it is a religious symbol used long before Copy Right laws. I am sure if he was selling the image to people, then the situation would have changed. But, as far as I am aware the image is being use solely as decoration and not much else. Akasha, once again, I am sorry for saying what I said, I may be TOOOOTALLY wrong about it and this may be an isolated case, but I am not trying to trash you or anything. Just trying to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted June 16, 2009 Root Admin Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 to Kittiness, nobody tells me how to run MD , dont worry about that. Akasha's issue is no a personal issue, she just had the guts to bring attention to it, but the issue is not a personal fight between Akasha and Amoran, as you can see for yourself. In fact, i think Akasha is lowering the importance of the issue by making it sound as personal and keeping to get in this fight. THe accusations against me and MD in general are not accusations that concern Akasha more than anyone in MD. to Fenrir, of course everybody is doing it, its like when i talk now, i am trying to make a point in what i say, so i use words to do that, the same way in MD i use other things such as colors shapes and gameplay sensations to make "the point" that i want there. Its not marketing research, the purpose is not to sell better, but to put you in a warm atmosphere to stimulate your imagination and give you a confortable feeling. The world i am creating has as purpose LEARNING/CREATIVITY both for me and for you. I enjoy what i do, you could say i am doing experiments, but its tottaly different thing from what i was accused of. All other games are focused on marketing research to increase sales and keep addiction, unfortunatly for me thats not what i aim, and you can see that in the exclusive nature of the players that stay, in the limited number of people that get anywere far and by the hi IQ and creativity requested to survive around here. I have no use of a cold game machine that will be suitable for 80% of the gamers, like wow type games are. MD is first of all a community, the game is just the filter to that community, of course i am doing everything i can to improve that filter ... and thats why you are here, thats why amoran or logan are here ... I might even write a book about how you can shape the playerbase of a 'game' by using numbers and colors... that doesnt mean i am hiding anything or have dark purposes or whatever other bulshit i was accused of...and it doesnt mean that for me MD is a game..its not. I do not respod well to attacks of any kind, but to an attack to what MD means i respond even worse, however i am still having a small amount of hope that this issue can be self regulated by MD itself, by rpcs or the rest of the players, or if its not, at least i learn something out of it before i take an decisive action. So far i do not understand Amorans actions, i do understand Logans however, i suspect its related to the demotion. ...so you see...yeah i am using even them as lab rats..observing their actions instead of simply crushing some skulls and moving on. In this sense Amoran was right, lol. ..but, what is the solution recomanded by you (all), how do you see this situation? what would you do, what do you think i should do, i am curious what arguments you have. I feel like reacting bigtime and it would be a pitty not to consider all options before i do, don;t you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firsanthalas Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) [quote]I do not tell my boyfriend how to drive his car[/quote] Wow! Lucky guy. I'd like to say that this is not going to end for one very simple reason. There seems to be no sign of an apology from anyone. In any argument (that is resolved), there is an apology at the end. It is the apology that is the end of the argument, not silence or ignoring people, the apology. No apology means no end to the argument. It has never been refuted it seems that Mur was accused of things like theft and manipulation. Yet no apology. People have to accept that they were wrong in some way. If they can't then they can't apologise. We are all entitled to an opinion, but there is a fine line between an opinion and an accusation. I personally feel that this is not just about Amoran and Akasha as some people try to make out. It has spilled over and other people have been drawn in. People have taken sides and setup opposing camps. Making accusations without giving the accused a chance to hear them in advance is wrong. You don't go into a courtroom not knowing what you have been charged with. Not allowing the accused to have their response is also wrong. I don't give a flying monkeys about any argument that you feel threatened. If you make or backup an accusation you should be willing to defend it. Otherwise its a baseless argument. This has happened twice now as far as I can see. On the subject of Akasha. Akasha can be about as subtle as a brick through a window at times. But also remember that English is not her first language and she has come under fire from more people than just Amoran lately. She seems to be a magnet for a lot of hate and anger. And yes, she is Mur's wife and I am sure that she is angry about Mur being treated badly. But she is also a person in her own right. Stop treating her like some kind of extra appendage of Mur's. If I was in her shoes I would be insulted and upset over comments like that. Making an argument that she can't speak because she is Mur's wife is insulting and unfair to anyone. It isn't just Amoran and Akasha having some kind of bitch fight here. There is more to it than that and more people involved. So I say to everyone involved, stop fighting, get over yourselves. Mur in particular, deserves an apology and pretty much everyone else say sorry to everyone on the basis that you may have caused offence. I am sorry if I have offended anyone. I have ideas, I get caught up and forget to think about other people's ideas and point of view. I am sorry. (For anyone that I haven't insulted or offended, don't worry I am pretty sure that I will at some time, at which point I can apologise then) Edited June 16, 2009 by Firsanthalas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantasm Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) *point of view from a noob* of course i am only a little over 100 days old so I don't know near as much as what must be the rooted problem. I can only go from what i hear from others and this "Scrolling Text of the Bleeding Eyes". To me, an RPC is someone who takes a nuetral position on general characters and helps them from their own *the RPCs* point of view. Not making base judgements before talking with the player. They devolop the world of MD and help newer players learn to be creative and help the world themselves. Akasha tends to like those who kiss her hind end and dislike those who oppose her. Nothing wrong with that as that is how most people in the world are. As her being an RPC is tends to be troublesome because she is very opinionated and often times sees that actions in MD should go her way or the highway. If she doesn't like the way a role play is going she wants it changed to suit her or from then on dislikes the character from then on that roleplayed. Armoran tends to think that if something gets done it is all her work that accomplished it. From what little I saw over the whole alliance ordeal to reading this text, it seems that she believes if it's done right it is soley from her own hard work. If it is done wrong then be all hell and high water she whines and thinks the world is against her. Again...I'm a noob who I'm sure doesn't even know 10% of all of it, but from what I see as a newcomer into the realm of MD...well its the way i see it. Mur must have the patience of Job in the whales belly to be able to deal with all of this. From what I've read it seems he, the one accused of half of this, is mostly the innocent victem. Not kissing his arse, its the truth. If it would have been my I would have kicked Armoran from RPC and let her roam around as a general character. It seems thats the way she wants it from the text. I'm sure many would have hit the big delete button in a heartbeat on her. I have often wondered, and even said something once about the RPCs of this land. How they do not seem to be involved in the present game. As a newer character at least half of the RPCs I have never spoken with or want nothing to do with new characters. They simply want to run around hanging with their "original crowd". Which is fine for the ordinary older players. Not for RPCs. *waits to be stabbed multiple times and character deleted* Edited June 16, 2009 by phantasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Bunny Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Well... wow.. I am glad I left early, this broke my mind, again. The way I see it, I am going to start ignoring this pathetic little feud, from both sides, I am certain you will come to a solution, even if it is the 'ignore it, 'till it goes away' solution, but I won't be part of this obvious emotional and childish issue. Unless reason and not EMOTION, NORMAL debate and, oh I don't know, ACTUAL ARGUMENTS FROM BOTH SIDES, comes back to the issue at hand, if it was ever there at all, then I will not be part of it. I almost never use caps, that is for a reason. This is a rare moment, take it in, because this is not an invitation to try and pry information from me on this subject, this is a warning. Don't you dare bother me with this until the childishness has left. Edited June 16, 2009 by Metal Bunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Greycloth Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I think a real debate needs to be held. The accuser(s), and the defendant(s) need to be sat down and have a debate. One side speaks their thoughts on the matter, and the other listens. No interjections. The other then takes notes on what is said and makes a thoughtful and intelligent response. Once they are done their speech, the other then proceeds to counter act those thoughts with a reasonable defense, meanwhile the original speaker then takes notes and presents their defense. Lather, rinse, repeat. This is a solution to this problem, and perhaps others. It has been copyrighted and must ask me for permission to use it. But seriously, both parties need to be mature enough to handle such a gigantic task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightsage Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' post='33605' date='Jun 16 2009, 09:45 PM']I think a real debate needs to be held. The accuser(s), and the defendant(s) need to be sat down and have a debate. One side speaks their thoughts on the matter, and the other listens. No interjections. The other then takes notes on what is said and makes a thoughtful and intelligent response. Once they are done their speech, the other then proceeds to counter act those thoughts with a reasonable defense, meanwhile the original speaker then takes notes and presents their defense. Lather, rinse, repeat. This is a solution to this problem, and perhaps others. It has been copyrighted and must ask me for permission to use it. But seriously, both parties need to be mature enough to handle such a gigantic task.[/quote] I do seem to remember a certain person who refused to present his point in public until the verdict had already been given... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GgSeverin Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) IMHO A (Small!!) storm in a glass of water. And some people are drowning! LOL Pffui! Amoran can't take my fun and Akasha can't save me since I ride on the edge (of the glass) Mur can do anything he pleases as long as he brings me surprises and a ever-changing game. Hate War Love Art are all good when driven by passion. Congratulations for that & the longest post i ever read. (allmost 5 hours chatting! And I read all of it! OMG what have you done with lazy me?) :lol: IMHO : RPC's are high overestimated. (Here is a great Rebellion idea!) Edited June 16, 2009 by GgSeverin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageWoman Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 How to Apologize: Mur and Akasha, I apologize. <bows> To all the RPC's and the Gang that hang out at the GoE now instead of Willows Shop (still don't know why, is the rent cheaper?), I apologize. <bows> To the new players and old who got marked on their PL's about their attacks in the Dojo....you had it coming. (PM and I will Edit them) To all the men who got Whore Red Lipstick Kisses, soap and water will get it off. X D To those who I didn't get to yet, I am really, really Sorry! *wipes the dry erase board* I apologize for that too. Is there a do over button? Oh yeah. One more thing. Noone, you are a player who someone should never make puns about but everyone still does. I apologize for that too! X D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Greycloth Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='lightsage' post='33606' date='Jun 16 2009, 04:09 PM']I do seem to remember a certain person who refused to present his point in public until the verdict had already been given...[/quote] Well, yes. I do remember that as well. But it all happened in a few hours, so I really didn't have much of a chance. And honestly, I didn't want to because everyone was on a witch hunt. Edited June 16, 2009 by Fenrir Greycloth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted June 16, 2009 Root Admin Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 i had enough. I dont see anything more to learn about this situation. I will post conclusion on the newslog. Issue closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amoran Kalamanira Kol Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Muratus del Mur, you are a horrible person. You and your wife. I supported the player base, I supported the artwork and I spoke however you heard only what you wanted to hear. Edited June 17, 2009 by Amoran Kalamanira Kol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted June 16, 2009 Root Admin Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 - "player base" is a technical term refering to the total number of player accounts and you have nothing to do with it, you probably mean you supported players in the realm or brought in friends to play, wich is appreciated but all do that without braging so much about it. - the artworks you did were greatly appreciated, rewarded as well, like all other artworks i use (as opposed to stolen as i was accused) and they can be counted on fingers. Other people helped with many more avatars or even scenes and they didn't used that as an argument to threaten players that they will stop doing that, like you did on several occasions. How many month ago was your last avatar for md, did you actualy do any scene for MD as you say? what are the artworks you talk so much about? a few avatars long ago? Anyway, i never judged you by this, i didn't made you rpc for your drawings, that was only an advantage that could help you to better support your rpc role with custom artworks. Glordamar is the one to decide the members of the Artisans guild, i just interfere when situation requires it. - about speaking and me not hearing it.... i guess the RPC meeting logs and your overall attitude speaks for itself. And i am glad i am a horrible person, i was starting to think i am to soft sometimes, lol. - Like i told Logan on his demotion some time ago, i tell you too, this time in public because you seem to be the type that likes public talks ... You should learn something out of this all, you should learn that ideas that breed in your head are useless if not confrunted from time to time with the surrounding reality. You should chose to speak when something you care is at risk, you should learn to fight for the things you believe in or to stop believing in them if you realise they are not worthy to fight for. I would have listen to you if you would have defended your point of view and not spread rumors behind my back, in fact i actualy did this for you, opening the discussion about my accusations in public and challenging everybody to argument any part of it...... but, like Logan, i don;t expect you will learn anything from this. maybe next time you will find yourself in a similar situation you will remember what i told you now...i wonder if it will be too late ... On my side i learned that i will never again try to value someones opinion when that person doesnt value it enough itself to argument it in front of other minds and open it for debate. p.s.: as for "my wife", unfortunatly i treat her like i do with any other rpc, as far as game related matters are discussed, she has no preferential treatment and yes for that i am a horrible person, as you say, because normaly i should have kicked you out the second you argued with her just a bit..just because she is "my wife", yet i didnt do so, think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amoran Kalamanira Kol Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 You say I should stand up and defend myself but I am not going to say ANYTHING if I am going to be ridiculed and harassed for it the entire time. You should have told Akasha to BE SILENT so I could speak. I was not going to talk when everything I was going to say or speak out about was going to be laughed at. You could have very well said 'that isn't true and here is why' WITHOUT an attack dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Greycloth Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Mur, you are not a horrible person. A bit different than a customary game master, but what would MD be if you were a normal person? Just another game. As for you Amoran, just apologize right now. You KNOW Mur isn't brainwashing people. Why you insist on saying this over and over, I have no idea. Mur rarely interacts with the general public, how he manipulates people in his tower, I haven't got a clue. Your statement towards the hurt people coming to MD to heal? That may be so, but it isn't Mur that "heals" them. It is the general population that interacts with them. The only way Mur influences that are the filters he places us through. We are a certain kind of people. No brainwashing has been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amoran Kalamanira Kol Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I apologized a month ago Fenrir, they are the ones bringing this issue to light AGAIN. Perhaps Mur should log into his YIM more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Greycloth Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 You do not seem to be sincere, Amoran. I know from experience being attacked for doing something wrong isn't exactly pleasant. But you have to put up with it and wade through all the crap that surrounds something like this. Lay down your sincerity and then explain your side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amoran Kalamanira Kol Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) I am not sincere now, Fenrir. I was sincere when I sent Mur that IM but I will not apologize now. Edited June 17, 2009 by Akasha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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