Md Is Boring

[Shadowseeker]

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='20 February 2010 - 06:33 PM' timestamp='1266687221' post='54837']
You guys think I find MD boring? Umm... no?

I changed the Dojo so that MP5s could attack other MP5s. Why? Because everyone hid there. Now, everyone is hiding in GGG training to become stronger. Why? Because it's easier. It requires little effort. I rarely ever train there, and yet, I can defeat most non token rituals without thinking to hard. I don't have amazing stats, and I don't have amazing creatures. But, I played MD before it became so lame. I remember when you couldn't walk through willows shop without being attacked.

[/quote]

Fenrir, don't take credit what you HAVE NOT DONE.

I was the one who did it, and after several weeks you asked to be staff, but I never saw you there. Then, I took you off the list, and you didn't bother ever again. So can you explain this to me perhaps?

[Fenrir Greycloth]

Who was the one that started the whole Dojo take over? You seem to have forgotten that. I was the one that brought it to attention, you were the one who had the clought to do it.

[Shadowseeker]

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='20 February 2010 - 08:59 PM' timestamp='1266695982' post='54846']
I was the one that brought it to attention, you were the one who had the clought to [size="7"]do[/size] it.
[/quote]

You say that the roof had to be fixed. And it was me who did it after noticing, took the materials and went through building it.

Now you come to say you built it? I'm not sure if you have read your own sentence, it already implies it was me who did it. Other than that, I can only say..It is your choice to stay in or leave a game.If you think it is that way, go ahead. I don't think so yet.

[Fenrir Greycloth]

You are argueing over semantics.

We both did our part. Now drop it and get back on topic please.

[MRAlyon]

congratulations to Fenrir Greycloth for his behavior...
he said that he doesn't like GGG after he comes in it and after that I have written into chat that I should go to sleep he waited a moment after attack me naturally with damage...
if you don't like GGG you shouldn't break the rules only stay there without attack other players with GGG rit or damage rit and he escaped... [b]TURN THUMBS INTO GGG YOU[/b]

Edited February 21, 2010 by MRAlyon

[Fenrir Greycloth]

I don't need to explain my actions while I was there. I was not there training critters, and I attacked one person, you for flaming me with swear words.

[apophys]

Why all this animosity? Can't people just get along?


Anyway, all I see are mp5s responding, about their own level, projecting their conclusions on ALL of MD. The poll in this thread refers to the ENTIRE GGG, with almost entirely mp5s deciding. Mp3/4s don't go to the GGG for the same reason as mp5.

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='20 February 2010 - 11:33 AM' timestamp='1266687221' post='54837']
I remember when you couldn't walk through willows shop without being attacked.

No one ever idles anymore. Why? Because of the honour system. No one wants to take a loss. Why? Because of the honour system. No one ever wanders out of "safe" zones. Why? Because of the honour system.

Does anyone else see a pattern here?

No one will leave a safe place because they can't win. Not anymore.

MD is like a scale. Before, everything was generally balanced. But several additions come by, and totally made everything whacky. People thought it would be balanced soon again. But honestly, it has been over 6 months. Tokens are still here, the Honour system still makes people afraid.
[/quote]

Ah, yes, the good old days, eh? I remember as a fresh mp4 being so afraid of passing through Willow's to Wind's (it was so active) that I started using the Press as my heal space, and after a while I got bored.
This lasted until Awiiya invited me to the Cellar Door, the predecessor of the GGG. This "secret" revitalized my interest in MD. I only stayed there to get the required wins on my creatures, and then I went on rampages around MD (dojo idlers especially) for XP. This became a cycle. Soon I could hold my ground at Willow's, and even at the GoE around last Christmas.

The GGG does temporarily take people away from other parts of MD, but it allows for harder fights at mp3/4 with stronger, more upgraded creatures. For mp4, the GGG is priceless.

The honor system is so easy to work around, it's laughable. Just set some trees and farm losses, then spam victories, and your honor is max. I've never had any unwanted loss of honor, except, oddly, at the GGG. But maybe this is due to my low mp level.

For your information, I idle most of the time I'm online. I either have a single tree or a nearly unbeatable (to mp4) tokenless defense.


If you're having problems at mp5, try playing an alt at a lower MP, and see how truly nice it is. I don't know how the situation looks like at mp5, but down here, it's pretty good (except for tokens, which are kind of rare here).


The problem is that MD's OVERALL population seems to be stagnating or shrinking, even at mp4. They're definitely not leaving because they can take advantage of the wondrous GGG. I would even venture to say that the only mp4s who quit are those unaware of the GGG.

Speaking for all the mp3s and mp4s who don't use the forum: Don't fix what isn't broken.


Incidentally, if the GGG were to move from its current location, closer to the rest of activity, it would only be even MORE popular. Which would probably be a good thing... alright, now I'm incoherent.

Edited February 21, 2010 by apophys

[Jester]

[quote name='apophys' date='20 February 2010 - 11:04 PM' timestamp='1266732262' post='54873']
Why all this animosity? Can't people just get along?


Anyway, all I see are mp5s responding, about their own level, projecting their conclusions on ALL of MD. The poll in this thread refers to the ENTIRE GGG, with almost entirely mp5s deciding. Mp3/4s don't go to the GGG for the same reason as mp5.



Ah, yes, the good old days, eh? I remember as a fresh mp4 being so afraid of passing through Willow's to Wind's (it was so active) that I started using the Press as my heal space, and after a while I got bored.
This lasted until Awiiya invited me to the Cellar Door, the predecessor of the GGG. This "secret" revitalized my interest in MD. I only stayed there to get the required wins on my creatures, and then I went on rampages around MD (dojo idlers especially) for XP. This became a cycle. Soon I could hold my ground at Willow's, and even at the GoE around last Christmas.

The GGG does temporarily take people away from other parts of MD, but it allows for harder fights at mp3/4 with stronger, more upgraded creatures. For mp4, the GGG is priceless.

The honor system is so easy to work around, it's laughable. Just set some trees and farm losses, then spam victories, and your honor is max. I've never had any unwanted loss of honor, except, oddly, at the GGG. But maybe this is due to my low mp level.

For your information, I idle most of the time I'm online. I either have a single tree or a nearly unbeatable (to mp4) tokenless defense.


If you're having problems at mp5, try playing an alt at a lower MP, and see how truly nice it is. I don't know how the situation looks like at mp5, but down here, it's pretty good (except for tokens, which are kind of rare here).


The problem is that MD's OVERALL population seems to be stagnating or shrinking, even at mp4. They're definitely not leaving because they can take advantage of the wondrous GGG. I would even venture to say that the only mp4s who quit are those unaware of the GGG.

Speaking for all the mp3s and mp4s who don't use the forum: Don't fix what isn't broken.


Incidentally, if the GGG were to move from its current location, closer to the rest of activity, it would only be even MORE popular. Which would probably be a good thing... alright, now I'm incoherent.
[/quote]


GGG was much different back when it was a secret. The way it is now with everyone using it, it lost all of its meaning to me. It was fun before because it was a secret training center, and getting to train there was like a privilege, instead of being mandatory (like it is now, without it you probably won't be able to fight well). I admire the effort the MRs put into the training center, but I do agree that its bad for MD overall (no offense MRs). People use to complain about stat farmers, and now all of MD seem to be win farmers. Its kind of funny, really.

The problem is that there is no feasible alternative I can think of, so destroying it seems pointless to me, at least the way its happening. If it were to be destroyed it would need to be taken out all at once. The people who violate GGG rules accomplish nothing, and simply make the game more annoying to others.

[apophys]

[quote name='Jester' date='21 February 2010 - 01:23 AM' timestamp='1266737022' post='54874']
GGG was much different back when it was a secret. The way it is now with everyone using it, it lost all of its meaning to me.
[/quote]

Hmmm... so secrets are good...

Mur made a nice post 2 days ago about dividing the lands... I think I may start a mercenary guild. Not an official alliance, but an undercover organization... *plots* ....

[Chewett]

What's the point in making a vote to gauge the Publics opinion if people using ALTS to change the result!

A few people have used alts to add more votes to "Yes its a good idea to get rid of GGG" So if you want an accurate number for that poll, take away 2 or 3 votes from that one.

As of now it would be around 15 yes - 25 no

For now i will ignore who has done this, But if i see ANYONE doing this again, ALL their accounts will be banned indefinitely.

Im sorry Fenrir that people have decided to try and force one result, and i will make sure no one else does this if anyone else votes.

[Fenrir Greycloth]

Thank you Chewett. I appreciate your efforts.

[phantasm]

i like fenrir's protest of sitting at the GGG without setting a ritual. Its not only mature, but quite effective in tearing down the GGG.

[aaront222]

The GGG is too full of people. All mp4s are there. It is almost impossible to train in the SG or strategise in the GoE.
Instead of it always being for all mp levels let's make a slight change. One day it will be for mp3, next for mp4, then mp5, all the whule mp6 can be there. The GGG people can still sit there all day but also learn how to set rits. This way sometimes we can be GGGing but also learn to set rits.
There could also be a limit of time you can spend at the GGG online such as 2 hours.


If you want to know a good way to protest the GGG pm me and I will tell you a good way.

Never take ANYTHING at face value.

Edited March 6, 2010 by aaront222

[smartalekrj]

ggg has it's uses and complaining about it to that degree is useless. That would more or less make me want to say that GGG needs to go. There is no need to control mp lvls there as you cannot attack other mp lvls. People always seem to find a way to complain about it so maybe it just shouldn't exist anymore. People fought to have it there and now that it is there people are complaining about it?

oh yeah, DONT MESS WITH THE CHEWY!!! He'll tear you apart!

Edited March 6, 2010 by smartalekrj

[Chewett]

[quote name='aaront222' date='06 March 2010 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1267881691' post='55849']
The GGG is too full of people. All mp4s are there. It is almost impossible to train in the SG or strategise in the GoE.
[/quote]

You dont like GGG? you dont have to use it. From the people iv talked to about GGG, They all are there either because its a safe place to idle where they can HELP others, or that they are very weak and just are training a few creatures. There will always be the super Uber players using it, But would you prefere them running around killing everyone they see? or being part of a community run thing?

GGG has brought a lot of people Together

And also, I cant see how you "hate" GGG when you make statements like this "aaront222 I am quitting MD temporarily. Only to protest the GGG. Switich MMOs for awhile." and then Sit in GGG farming like those people you hate...

[smartalekrj]

*pssst, let's go raid ggg* mwa ha ha ha

[aaront222]

Here is a solution that should satisfy all interests-

On some days GGG is the GGG as we know it.
On other days GGG is not the GGG just another place.

This a good solution that allows both parties to be satisfied.

[Tarquinus]

That is a non-solution that solves nothing. What the hell is wrong with letting the GGG alone? If you don't like it, [u]don't go there[/u]. If you want to "protest" a popular training ground, expect to meet resistance.

[aaront222]

Please explain why my solution is bad.

My problem with the GGG is that most people think they need stronger creatures. All of the people go there to get those stronger creatures. The bigger truth is strategy. Strategy can be gained where you actually fight. The dojo is a good place to grasp a basic understanding of strategy. Then at GoE you test and refine the strategy.
The GGG is flooded with people leaving virtually the rest of all training spots empty.

[Tarquinus]

Your "solution" is bad because you make a demand while offering nothing in return. You suggest the users of GGG should not use it every other day, apparently for your convenience. Why should we? We are a group of like-minded people using a training strategy. It is understood that some people are simply rude and do not wish to respect this strategy, and come in hoping to break it, or to farm easy wins (which is the point of the thing to begin with). You appear to be offering not to be rude every other day. I cannot speak for the others, but I'll hold out for a better offer.

You and others complain that GGG is "flooded" with people and that other areas are consequently devoid of people to duel. Has it ever occurred to you to wonder why? If you show people a way that is more fun, they will come to you. Making the GGG less effective or less fun is not a good way to change the way training happens in MagicDuel. It simply alienates people and causes them to lose respect for you.

I do understand that GGG enables a certain free-win-dependent mentality among those who do not ever duel otherwise, but it is neither my right nor my duty to tell other players what to do with their time. The GGG works for me and for many other players who understand its benefits and its limitations very well: to suggest otherwise is to say that the MRs fundamentally failed to understand the mechanics of dueling in MagicDuel in devising this method, and I think that is demonstrably, emphatically [u]not[/u] the case.

[dst]

If I remember correctly they created the training grounds for one reason: to grind wins for crits that were meant to be sacrificed for stats. It was designed long ago, when stats really meant something. They did a smart move: they made it a public place. Otherwise they would have never ever be able to continue their grinding (I don't think it's necessary to elaborate the reasons here since they are really simple).Of course they knew the mechanics. Or at least few of them did. The rest followed. And what happens now? The same: everybody follows. Like sheep in a flock! It's such a pity...Right now all that players know are the following:
-GGG training rits (if they don't know them they are yelled at until they put the right one)
-the uber rits (which unfortunately are about 2 or let's say 3)

They have no way of adapting to other rits. And how could they do that if outside the GGG they can only encounter uber rits cause the rest of the players hide. I am guilty myself of having one of the strong rits put as def (even if it's not the strongest). Why? Cause I hate to be the only one farmed. It's a vicious circle.


So, to resume a bit:
Is GGG good: yes, it is but only if you already know how to play.Yes, it is but only if you use it for the reason it was designed. Right now the reasons are wrong.
Is GGG bad: yes, it is. Reasons? I think I mentioned some above. And there are others.

Another issue:how will you punish the GGG violators?Or how are you punishing them (in case you already do that)? I always see PL entries about misbehaving in GGG but I never saw any measures.

I doubt GGG is the main reason why MD is boring but honestly, I believe it is an important factor.

[Muratus del Mur]

i see ggg as a compromise between players to cover some gameplay issues and 'survive' md. It some sort of giant pact. The big problem i see is that it keeps the very few online players far away from what new players see. This creates a chain reaction and keeps MD even more empty than it is.

It is a community created structure and i will not interfere with it, destroying it or supporting it. Thats entirely up to you. In a way it affects MD badly, in an other it unites it and teaches discipline. In one way its far and makes md look and be "empty" in on other way it generates movement across the map. Do not expect a decision from me in such situations because that would totally ruin my purpose of observing what happens.



My response will be to create alternate reasons why not to get so many people in one place. This will require time, and i plan to start a series up updates on MD _gameplay_ (so not fixes or new features, but concept changes) starting in two month or so from now. Why so late? i have my reasons.


If I were to control ggg myself (i don't want to), i would probably add rules to make it harder and less static to achieve its purposes. For example having a different location each day will at least generate some sort of movement. Having an alliance spell (probably part on the new stuff) so that a group of people can kick out others from a location would allow guards to keep ggg safe in very public locations (send to gazebo can be used now, but its very limited). Putting some sort of daily rewards gathered from a daily "participation fee" would boost up motivation and would turn the ggg into a daily quest-like activity.

There are so many things, but like i said its not up to me to alter the natural course of what will happen with player made organisations. Its up to you, and with the tools you have.

Public concerns will however trigger a response from me and i might hurry up some of the features o abilities that could influence the situation.... in supporting it, but also in destoying it...so its kind of tricky.

Can someone summerize the social history of ggg and its "ancestral" roots, starting with the shop guards gathering place for example? the dojo? the few attepmts to train on massive amounts of alts? There was always some sort of fight gathering in md, where people agreed to rules or at least to the fact they can fight eachother constantly. It is an unevitable phenomenon and maybe it should start to get fully supported or fully replaced/removed....like i said , it wont be me to decide that, even if i know the answer already.

[smartalekrj]

[quote]where people agreed to rules or at least to the fact they can fight eachother constantly[/quote]

fighting every 30 seconds was fun... especially to the rule breakers hehe

[gremlin]

Here is what I honestly think about the whole MD is dead. MD is dead for a very good and obviouse reason and its NOT GGG its the people. what I mean is that MD is boring because no one is doing anything interesting and by interesting I mean like holding events or doing things to promote RP amogst the others. I believe that MD would be alot better if people just done things like hold parties and such but it seems latly that most people are only worried abot boosting their stats. yes I know dueling is an asset of MD but the biggest and major asset of MD is Role Playing and doing things to have fun.

[Burns]

Hmm... history and society...

Since Willow's guards were put up, people gathered there.
A few were trying to beat them, took a little too long, and were nice victims, so the stronger few farmed them, groups of people attract more people, tada, willow's.
Same happens with GoE every Head Contest and/or festival, a lot of people who don't care go there because a bunch of victims is there.

Naturally, a few were better than the rest and kicked rears, which the strong kind of liked, and the kicked kind of didn't... imo, because they don't understand that losing is part of life, but anyways, they didn't like.

Dojo formed, as safe haven for the rear-kicked people who minded getting kicked, but didn't manage to learn or grow from getting kicked, and dojo, lateron SG, offered them to learn and grow without getting kicked. It was close by Willow's, so people still met up, but largely didn't bother each other.

GGG is something totally different, it was formed out of an attempt to get best and was secret, so only those who were in could get better and stronger than dst and such. Nowadays, it's plain stupid as a training-method, but people still like it because they still think that getting their behinds kicked hurts.

Secret groups, well, they are kind of secret, so hard to tell... But the system was clear, gathering xp in defence, losing xp in attack, always with high heat and high stat-gains, those pretty much vanished when principles were capped...

And alts are harder to pull off now, sicne that non-combat rule was put up, before that, they were kind of elite training, right crits on the alts, always perfect settings for the things you needed, and with a bit of time, you could grow far far over any other people with grinding off your own chars...


If i wanted to summarize, i'd say that people generally only train in such protected fields because they are unable to cope with loss, but that's just my opinion ^^

Edit in response to Gremlin:
Yeah, there are not many things happening to you, and i can easily tell you why that is: The people of GGG don't bother to look elsewhere, and a lot of us don't _EVER_ go there to promote something, be it party, happening or quest, if they prefer to stay out of my ways, fine with me, but don't expect me to leave my tracks to make sure you know what i'm up to right now. So... if i was partying every night, it'd go without you noticing.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Burns