Wps Gone Bad

[dst]

Here is the list of the WP awarding that I find at least weird. I will not comment on them so you'll not say I am mean. I will just post them (details included):

Receiver Giver WpId Details Date/Time

Death Ray Mya Celestia 576 Quest 01/03/10 06:24:11
Nimrodel Mya Celestia 571 Guardian quest 26/02/10 19:02:35
Firsanthalas Mya Celestia 570 Mentorship 26/02/10 18:53:38
Sharazhad Mya Celestia 569 Quality Mentoring 26/02/10 18:49:13
CrazyMike Mya Celestia 568 Completed the guardian only quest 26/02/10 18:46:43
Kouras sasha lilias 533 Helped to plan out a new story for me, helped lost puppy make a personal wix and completed the set tasks 29/01/10 13:13:00
mcvitie phantasm 473 Secret Reindrach drawing that Aelis did.A gift given for a very special time of year. With happy holidays for all 24/12/09 16:23:29
Kamisha *Sagewoman* 395 For having the guts and ball to apply and campaign for Kingship and to gracefully withdrawn knowing the odds were against him 22/10/09 16:58:46

[Orlando Gardiner]

Some of these are indeed strange, you can recieve wp's for mentoring?

[phantasm]

i stand in defense of mine. I indeed gave a WP for a non quest reason to McVitie. Aelis did a wonderful thing with the secret reigndrach drawing. Unfortunately many people did not participate. So as a push for it, along with what I thought a wonderful gift, I gave her the WP. I was given a very wonderful present myself from Mur on Christmas, so I consider this no less a good gesture, to someone i really often can't stand in rp form. Not only is it the ONLY WP not given for quests I create, but I would do it again in the spirit of the festival of Christmas, one of the most powerful and grand times of the year for many of us.

[Chewett]

Wow, most of them are screaming to be withdrawn. Look at the first detail "quest" and look at all the "good" ones given for the really hard jobs of "mentoring"

Well, it doesnt matter since mur would never check the logs, and nobody can see them... oops! we can... Personally i want to see what Firs says about all this Free WP in LR

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

That is a bit odd, though I do know that people aid other people in sponsoring quests. That may be what you have here under the areas that mention quests and "guardian quest", etc. I am not certain.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Amoran Kalamanira Kol

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='phantasm' date='13 March 2010 - 04:48 PM' timestamp='1268520495' post='56366']
i stand in defense of mine. I indeed gave a WP for a non quest reason to McVitie. Aelis did a wonderful thing with the secret reigndrach drawing. Unfortunately many people did not participate. So as a push for it, along with what I thought a wonderful gift, I gave her the WP. I was given a very wonderful present myself from Mur on Christmas, so I consider this no less a good gesture, to someone i really often can't stand in rp form. Not only is it the ONLY WP not given for quests I create, but I would do it again in the spirit of the festival of Christmas, one of the most powerful and grand times of the year for many of us.
[/quote]

This is basically the same as trading wishpoints, just without getting a wishpoint in return. Anyone remember Mur talking about RPCs trading wishpoints?

[Sparrhawk]

I agree with Pip, And the one from Sagewoman to Kamisha should be removed that is a rubish excuse to have a wp im sorry but thats my opinion. i cant comment on the others without some details
Wps are supposed to be earnt in some way.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Sparrhawk

[Shadowseeker]

Well, I was around when Sage did that..and told her she shouldn't do it imo. She did it.

Let's hear her response though.

[Udgard]

[quote name='phantasm' date='14 March 2010 - 05:48 AM' timestamp='1268520495' post='56366']
i stand in defense of mine. I indeed gave a WP for a non quest reason to McVitie. Aelis did a wonderful thing with the secret reigndrach drawing. Unfortunately many people did not participate. So as a push for it, along with what I thought a wonderful gift, I gave her the WP. I was given a very wonderful present myself from Mur on Christmas, so I consider this no less a good gesture, to someone i really often can't stand in rp form. Not only is it the ONLY WP not given for quests I create, but I would do it again in the spirit of the festival of Christmas, one of the most powerful and grand times of the year for many of us.
[/quote]

No offense, but I have to disagree strongly here. WPs are [u]rewards[/u], not stuff to be given as [u]gifts[/u]. It never was, and I hope it never would be. One thing that separates WP from all other stuff in MD is that it has to be earned, not just distributed for random reasons.

[Jester]

I agree with Udgard. If you are going to give a gift give something of yours, but all WPs should be seen as Mur's, loaned to you so that you may give them out for quests. They do not belong to you, to give out as you see fit.

[Yrthilian]

Sorry jester i have to disagree with you on the WP beeing mur's.

As a kingship persion we are told to make our rules and distribute as we see fit.
Now i dont agree with just giving them out willy nilly. They must be earned in one
way or another.

Now looking at what is seen in the log i wil say this
the first 5 lact any detail for the reason of giving the WP.
mentoring is a good reason but it would have to be givin more detail that what is there
in my opinion. I have given WP for non quest related thinks. But i beleve they were given
for good reasons. I also make sure to add details for such.

DST no offence but to me this last few toppics just seem like you are out to HUNT LR to death
Now many dont agree with your methods and yes you have recived abuse from players. But 2 wrongs
DONT make a right. This agin is just my opinion of what i have seen over the last many months.
This all seem very persional between you and LR It is dissapointing to see such behaviour from you
in this way.

Sorry i am starting t get more annoyed and all this childish behaviour as of late.
No wonder MD is loosing more and more players when this kind of Bull is going on.

[phantasm]

I agree they shouldn't be handed out all Willy Nilly like. I handed out ONE WP, for what I feel, is a good reason. Also keep in mind the scoring of WPs. If every WP is handed out for the hardest quests you can come up with, then why is there even a rating scale? It's there to mark the ease, effort of the WP earned. I gave that WP a very low rating as all she had to do to earn it was partake in Aelis Secret Reigndrach. To me really thats not much different then a quest, i'll be it an easy one. It was a preplanned, organized event, meant for fun for all. Are WPs never handed out at festival times for fun, and easy little games? I honestly don't know because often times I am not available when the festivals are taking place (during hours i work etc).

Any of you remember waking up to Christmas morning, and your parents getting you exactly what you wanted? A Wish Come True. I feel no less as guilty then they would. I make no apologies for the WP being handed out, but do see that many disagree with it, and the likely hood of me ever handing out anything for Christmas again besides some coin is very slim.

[I am Bored]

well if people are handing out wp's as gifts, where can i get one?? I WANT A WISHPOINT!!!!

and slightly more on-topic

i think that the wishpoints can be given out as gifts, but only on special times, like christmas, but there should be a limit to the number that are given out, and i think that yes there are some there that may need to be taken back but there are other's there that don't.

[Mya Celestia]

[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]I shall explain mine although I feel this is more of a private matter.

I was given 5 wps to give to the Guardians. I had been given 3 wps by Mur a while back as well for quests. When I was given the 5, they were strictly for the Guardians. I was told to distribute how I see fit. I created a quest for the Guardians to complete. It was not made public in hopes of avoiding what is now happening here.

Mentoring is another matter. Few know of the Guardian's method of bringing members into our alliance. It is easiest described as a 2 sided quest. Both the mentor and the apprentice face challenges. Few complete the initial apprenticeship and fewer last beyond that.

If Mur wishes to know more, I shall gladly explain to him. He is who I feel any further explanation may be required.[/font][/color]

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

One thing that I do admire about the Guardians is that they do not intentionally try to break the rules of the realm. This wish point fiasco, in my opinion, has only been brought about as a big deal out of boredom. In all honest truth I would have this thread closed, so not to start anymore pointless arguments.

I don't agree with Sage in that she gave Kamisha a wish point, but what I do agree with is the kindness that Phantasm decided to show to someone who at least tries. Perhaps a wish point was not a proper gift, but it was a gift no less and I commend him for that.

[Pipstickz]

I remember applying to join the Guardians, Windy was my mentor. All I did was tel Windy why I wanted to join and stuff like that and she basically told me I was in. Of course, I decided not to join in the end.

Not saying this is normal for everyone, but this is what happened with me.

[SageWoman]

[quote name='Shadowseeker' date='13 March 2010 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1268525933' post='56375']
Well, I was around when Sage did that..and told her she shouldn't do it imo. She did it.

Let's hear her response though.
[/quote]


It's very simple. Mur put a time limit on the WP. I never had a wish point to give out before and I am not creative when it comes to Quests. Kamisha impressed me with his tenacity and even though the odds were stacked against him he TRIED to do something. Nothing I could see around me at that time period was worthy of the WP and it would have been taken away when the time was up. The WP was MINE to give away. I will not be second guessed or derided for my choice. And if the decision is made to take it away from Kamisha, let it be from Mur. In my opinion, it is will be a injustice to take it away as it was given during a Festival and done in the spirit of the Time.

[Shadowseeker]

Uh..since when does a WP have a time limit?

I even went and checked what you just said.

[2009-11-10 16:58:10 - Alpha 9]
Credit and Wishpoint codes do not have endless valability. You should use them eventualy or they might get used by someone else. Imagine i have like a pool of codes i give out from, if they do not get used they will eventualy popup in my list and they will be given to someone else. I am talking about a validity of a few days to a few weeks, but not endless. Once activated, wishpoint codes will enable you to reward that amount of wishpoints indefenetly, but as a code, they should not be kept for too long. As an example, i am not starting to reuse codes not activated during the festival.

Essentially, the WP code expires. Once you used it the WPs on your account don't- simply because giving a WP because "I had no other reason as to why I should award someone" was to be prevented.

Yes, yours to give away..but not simply because you had nobody else to give it to.

[SageWoman]

[quote name='Shadowseeker' date='27 March 2010 - 09:16 AM' timestamp='1269699360' post='56989']
Uh..since when does a WP have a time limit?

I even went and checked what you just said.

[2009-11-10 16:58:10 - Alpha 9]
Credit and Wishpoint codes do not have endless valability. You should use them eventualy or they might get used by someone else. Imagine i have like a pool of codes i give out from, if they do not get used they will eventualy popup in my list and they will be given to someone else. I am talking about a validity of a few days to a few weeks, but not endless. Once activated, wishpoint codes will enable you to reward that amount of wishpoints indefenetly, but as a code, they should not be kept for too long. As an example, i am not starting to reuse codes not activated during the festival.

Essentially, the WP code expires. Once you used it the WPs on your account don't- simply because giving a WP because "I had no other reason as to why I should award someone" was to be prevented.

Yes, yours to give away..but not simply because you had nobody else to give it to.
[/quote]



...but as a code, they should not be kept for too long. To my way of thinking, this meant a time limit.
I will not defend myself further. What was done in the past STAYS in the past. I am with Amoran on her suggestion that this topic be CLOSED.

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='SageWoman' date='27 March 2010 - 03:47 PM' timestamp='1269701233' post='56991']
...but as a code, they should not be kept for too long. To my way of thinking, this meant a time limit.
I will not defend myself further. What was done in the past STAYS in the past. I am with Amoran on her suggestion that this topic be CLOSED.
[/quote]
That is silly. You could claim ignorance, but you should concede not to repeat it in the future. Instead you want to close the topic and make it sound like what you did was righteous and the people who "accused" you (note the "" around that word) as wrong?


Imo this topic has it's use for exploring the guidelines towards acceptable WP rewarding policy and we should work constructively to avoid "bad" WPs in the future. A very simple rule could be 'if you doubt a WP is a suitable reward, then give something else, like a coin or a CTC or even a 'congratulations you won' pm."

[Darigan]

why berate people for their choices. They were given WPs either for a specific task or to do with as they saw fit. If Anyone has a say on what they should and shouldn't be used for it'd be Mur. I'm not looking to start another argument just stating my point of view..but hey what do I know I've only been here less then a week but from what I've seen they were the ones given the points its not really anyone's place except Murs to say what they did was wrong or right.

On a side note and not to get on your bad side or anything dst but if you've had those records since last year or rather if you've known about them, why bring them up now?

[Shadowseeker]

Records only came into play lately...read the announcements.

Still, there is something about WPs, which is meant to avoid abuse. Currently we're here discussing which things should, or should not be given WPs for. Or which WPs are questionnable, at least.

[Darigan]

Isn't that up to the discretion of the ones holding the WPs or Mur? After all They were the ones entrusted with them and in two cases they were given part as a gift for the season but also for trying to accomplish something.

[awiiya]

We also have the opportunity to punish and prosecute anybody we feel is doing something illegal or immoral, and punish them in any way we can.

That was in an announcement a while back.

Awi

[Darigan]

I just read the announcements and it seems to me the punishment for misusing MPs is already set.


Quote from Mur: "As you know, wishpoints given on questionable reasons or on no reason at all, can be canceled by me if the situation is serious enough (meaning a short reason lacking details might be enough depending if quest was publicly known and there are no suspicions regarding the winners, but in other cases might lead to canceling of that WP if not enough proof exists regarding the legitimacy of the reward, quest, or reason. An other use of these logs would be to ban players that missuse their WP codes by giving them based on weak reasons, from receiving any other WP from their Kings."


If these actions in the list are seen as unjust then he can take action, and revoke said points and ban the players from getting anymore codes.