Stop Ggg

[Burns]

I'll gladly repeat, the problem is not whether you attack people or not, the problem is that YOU ARE THERE!
Shadowseeker, Leixer, dst and me don't attack most mp5 either, and still they are all afraid of us.
Jtz Champion and Dayredeemer, to name some other fearsome few, are premanently idle, they don't attack anything at all. And still they appear on all lists of the best fighters.

Some selected few have no honor at all, like Lighty (=P) and redneck. Still, at least Lighty stops attacking people who are getting close to skilldamage, and usually gives victories to his victims when they ask nicely.

The only difference is that on mp5, it is supposed to be that way, because we don't want the people who only play to be the best. Go play WoW, that's built for such things.
And, no matter how you argue that you won't attack anybody because it doesn't pay, the fact remains that you CAN. When anybody goes against your will, you can and will hurt them, because you can. That's how the game runs on mp5, but not on mp4. MP-levels are a noobie-protection, not an invitation to low-level and play god. Once you properly understood the basics of rituals, you are not supposed to be an mp4 anymore.

And, you call that a solution? Take the 'endless'-factor out of MD? I mean, yeah, Mur would save a lot of server costs, because MD would've been closed 2 years ago. That's all i can see in that solution.

€dit: On a sidenote: Apo already advanced, the others will soon, and the GGG is emptied of all MP3/4. After meager 30 hours. For all those who told me that i could do nothing against it because the GGG-users were such an effective social community who couldn't ever be stopped by a single man: [i]In your Face.[/i]

Edited June 29, 2010 by Burns

[Fyrd Argentus]

@Burns - I liked your argument better when you seemed more concerned with people learning to fight....

Personally, I learned combat at a faster RATE at MP4 where the field was more level and the chances of success made fighting more likely to be fun.

MP5 is a different game -- learning tricks, learning players, hit & run, hide, recon, adapt to the ever-changing rules, trade up. And of course, the longer you stay the more you get sucked into and appreciate the non-combat parts of MD.

We've finally touched on the root of the matter above - no influx of new MP5. I've said before that blaming the GGG and attacking it is only hurting the situation. We need to find a carrot, not a stick.

@Burns - Bravo for fight club -- Boo! for terrorism. (So you're human too, eh?)

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/7383-the-lay-of-the-ggg/

Edited June 29, 2010 by Fyrd Argentus

[VertuHonagan]

[quote name='No one' date='29 June 2010 - 03:40 AM' timestamp='1277800801' post='62921']
But is clearly stated by statistics older then you that most players decide to play (or not) around week 2 (if they get that far). There was always a problem for not having new players and [color="#00FF00"]since GGG even less ppl got to MP5[/color].
Getting kicked was never THE problem, the problem is accepting / acknowledging the lose & win relationship.
[/quote]

[color="#008000"]Statistics older than me? Are you talking about statistics from 4 years ago? If so then. Yes older than me, but I actually first started playing 3 years ago before there was a special training grounds for GGG and I quit after 2 weeks because of never being able to keep creature vitality up long enough to even enjoy the game. ((But I was also younger and didn't have the patience to actually wait like I have now.)) Your saying even less get to MP5 now, well thats still the players choice. If I really wanted to. I could just go around the game attacking random people till I have my creatures leveled up enough to sac them for exp at level 3 and constantly get Attack gains just like in GGG. Yes it may not last as long, but it would be more enjoyable and it would still slow the process of me going up to mp4. Not to mention trying to do all that I can at mp3 before moving onto mp4. Then you have all the stuff at mp4 to do and explore. So all of this could take a long while which. Even without the GGG wouldn't really stop players like me that are trying to do all they can at thier mp level to going up to the next mp level just because of creatures. Not everyone is obsessed with the battle system. I yes do want a good battle group, but only enough to try to beat all the npc's for now which is proving tough for me with the loreroot guardians. Yes I don't have to get in at mp3, but I want to get in at mp3 to explore it at mp3 then go in at mp4 and see what has changed in the world. Really though the battle system is not everything to this game. Its only a bit of the game and most people probably don't have the patience to solve all the riddles so end up quiting by those. Higher mps are just jealous that thier is a GGG now that they didn't have when they were that lower level to practice in to raise thier stats up while at lower mp levels. At least thats how its sounding to me. Thats why some players like Burns are acting like little children at the playground about it, rather than trying to come up with a compromise for the other players. Which all I have heard is come to mp5 so i can slaughter you easier. Even though with all your stat gains from this I could still easily squash you like a bug I just don't want to wait. This game is all about patience and some of you mp5 are starting to lack that patience towards the other younger players. Just be patient. they will go up when they are ready. Not when they are forced.[/color]

[dst]

1)Having a low id doesn't mean you're "old" in this game. You said it yourself:you played for 2 weeks and then quit. So basically you're a noob. You failed the tests Mur set. This happens to lots of mp3s. And this is how the system is designed.

2)The players that are "not obsessed with battles" are also not the ones using GGG. I can give you few examples if you want. Let's be honest:the ones that make a fuss about GGG are the ones that DO care about crits and stats

3)"Higher mps are just jealous that thier is a GGG now that they didn't have when they were that lower level to practice in to raise thier stats up while at lower mp levels." Bravo!!! I will nominate you for dumbest saying of the year. I can't even comment on this because if I will start I will have to ban myself for trivial language.

4)"Thats why some players like Burns are acting like little children at the playground about it, rather than trying to come up with a compromise for the other players." Compromise? You do realize that Burns and No one and all the others (including me) could have just come to GGG and attack everyone. You really can't do anything about it. BUT instead of that they showed you why GGG is bad.They brought arguments and listened to yours. When you proved to be narrow minded, Burns decided it's time for action. As i said: I supported him and I will support him in every way I can to accomplish his goal. Also, he OFFERED you an alternative! But that alternative requires a bit of thinking not just clicking and clicking and clicking.


5)"This game is all about patience and some of you mp5 are starting to lack that patience towards the other younger players. Just be patient. they will go up when they are ready." Patience for new players. Not for 100 days old players who are mp3 and have 5k attack.


6)" Not when they are forced." This is funny . I remember when Mur FORCED players to move up or down the mp levels. And he literally forced them. What Burns is doing is just make the stat grinders at GGG (mp4 or mp3) unable to grind. And since stat grinding is the reason why they stay at mp4/3, if they want to continue they need to advance. See? Nobody forces them. They choose to move up.

Edited June 29, 2010 by dst

[Burns]

A perfect example of a beginners view of the world, Vertu.
Indeed, squashing them is not hard. They hardly would have time to see my creatures before they are done killing theirs.
But i've lost interest in doing that ages ago. What's the point? Show my strenght by beating up some weak players?
I need to kill a bit to get my creatures the upgrades they deserve, but that's it. I have all the targets i need, i don't need more.

I don't want to take their baseball away because they won't let me play with them.

From a beginners point of view, however, they are a danger. They can kill them whenever they feel like. They can be evil to them, much like i can be evil to those. Me, being jealous of the lousy methods they use to train? Yeah, sure...
They don't advance when they are ready. They have been ready for ages, they just don't advance because it is so much better to be god. And the damage is done to the playerbase, who comes to mp4 and thinks that only a year of GGG can save them. That the holy cow of GGG can save them from the bad in the world. And that advancing to MP5, Mur's final filter, is something that should be avoided.

I take their baseball away because they hit other children with it.

If that is childish behavior, i refuse to grow up.

[VertuHonagan]

1. Thank you captain obvious! I was just comenting on the fact that its not just the GGG being in place that makes players quit, nor is it really making it happen any faster, because even before there were grinders it was happening to the new players early on. Now a days there are more nicer players at lower mp levels there were back when I first started. Back when I first started. The only person that ever really talked where I was was Mur. So the site is now more friendlier. Which in itself is more reason to stay than there was back then. Back then it was all people just attack you as your trying to figure the world itself out and not say a word if you talked to them. Theres a huge difference from then and now. The GGG is just a formal organized way of players trying to improve themselves before going up to mp5. Nothing can stop them from pming each other and going to inactive areas to do the same thing. Though at least this way they are comunicating with each other. Rather than just silent clicks.

2. Yes and thier fussing should stop being aimed at people like you and should be aimed at each other, so that they can train with each other to get better. Rather than relying on things that has been given to them.

3. This was my annoyance to people that are being downright rude such as yourself. I truthfully don't care if GGG exists or not. The thing that is pissing me off. Is how rude you all are going about it. Maybe if you actually talk to the players that care about GGG and help give them hints of some ideas of different things to do rather than grind. You would find yourselves with less problems, and a lot less pissed off players towards you all. Yes I know you don't care about a few players, but this is more of an FYI.

4. Maybe if you would have read some of my other posts. You would see that no where have I actually stated any narrow minded opinions or any of the like that you are trying to say that I have been doing. Before attacking someone. Actually read up on thier posts first. Basically what your saying with this one is that instead of just going and pissing off the few GGG users first. You warn them I'm going to attack you if you don't leave. Then listen with one ear to what they are saying. Complain about thier complaints. Then attack anyways. Genius. Basically all I've read from this thread aside from a few posts are all complaints about one thing or another without compromises. Without trying to give the very few that are trying to support GGG other things to do in MD aside from grinding for battles which aren't that important in my opinion. I don't even look at attack and def stats or anything when I attack players. So I myself am not worried about leveling up. More worried about exploring, but I think the GGG would be a decent use of only leveling up creatures and not for grinding stats. Thats in my opinion what it should be used for for us lower mp levels.

5. Boo hoo! 5k attack. That is absolutely nothing to you. So why worry about it? Seriously. Even most of us mp3s won't worry about that unless we are in competitions for fights. If they want to waste thier time getting 5k attack let them. Its not like they are getting a lot of def with it, and with all attack what can they really do when they get attacked and they have low defense? Its a who can kill who first thing here. ((correct me if I'm wrong on this point.))

6. Exactly! Make all the STAT GRINDERS! What about the players that are going to just to level up certain creatures that they may have just gotten and need leveld up by wins? All you all are pointing at is destroy GGG for stat grinders. Why not allow those that are using it to level up certain creatures without having to ask and wait a while for someone to allow them to attack them for an easy win. To use the GGG just for the purpose of leveling up that creature then leaving? Where is the harm in that?

If Mur believes people need to move up MP levels then thats his choice. He is owner of the land and his decisions should be respected and probably had a very good reason for doing such a thing. [edited for too much rudeness]

Edited June 29, 2010 by VertuHonagan

[dst]

I will answer to just one thing since it's obviously useless to try and explain things to you. And I am sorry I wasted my time.

"What about the players that are going to just to level up certain creatures that they may have just gotten and need leveld up by wins?"
GGG is not the answer. Want to level them? Fine. Go out and FIGHT. Plain and simple. The harm is that people gather at GGG and they are "protected" by certain rules so I have nobody to attack the old fashion way. Simple.

[VertuHonagan]

[quote name='dst' date='29 June 2010 - 08:23 AM' timestamp='1277817811' post='62949']
I will answer to just one thing since it's obviously useless to try and explain things to you. And I am sorry I wasted my time.

"What about the players that are going to just to level up certain creatures that they may have just gotten and need leveld up by wins?"
GGG is not the answer. Want to level them? Fine. Go out and FIGHT. Plain and simple. The harm is that people gather at GGG and they are "protected" by certain rules so I have nobody to attack the old fashion way. Simple.
[/quote]

[color="#008000"]The only thing they want is the for sure win. A lot of times unless the opponent is asked to set up a def rit for them. If the creature trying to be leveled up is a weak creature then it will usually die in the fight making it harder to level. They would only use the ggg to get those few for sure wins till its strong enough to go out and fight with it. Without having to look rude and attack only new players. I'm not talking about the ones that use GGG as protection. I'm just talking about the few players that may just use it once to level up a weak creature then leave.[/color]

[Yoshi]

Ok, I'm going to say something in here, there are alternatives to grinding at the GGG. They consist of:

The Sparring Grounds/Dojo - Here you can set your GGG rits, find those that have a single tree set up, and attack them with your non damaging/multiple attack rits. You also have the chance here to attack the idlers here, using rits that actually kill.

The GoE - Here you now have Burns' Fight Club which is a good way of learning how to defeat various rituals using your knowledge of ritual setting. How do you get that knowledge? Attacking and seeing what happens. Learning from experience, not just 'no matter what, I know I'll win, so I won't do anything different because I don't have to'. That thinking screws up your mind.

Everywhere else in MD - Go out and RP, do something other than sitting at the same scene. Please... for your own good... go outside the GGG and PLAY!

Edited June 29, 2010 by Yoshi

[VertuHonagan]

[quote name='Yoshi' date='29 June 2010 - 08:30 AM' timestamp='1277818213' post='62951']
Ok, I'm going to say something in here, there are alternatives to grinding at the GGG. They consist of:

The Sparring Grounds/Dojo - Here you can set your GGG rits, find those that have a single tree set up, and attack them with your non damaging/multiple attack rits. You also have the chance here to attack the idlers here, using rits that actually kill.

The GoE - Here you now have Burns' Fight Club which is a good way of learning how to defeat various rituals using your knowledge of ritual setting. How do you get that knowledge? Attacking and seeing what happens. Learning from experience, not just 'no matter what, I know I'll win, so I won't do anything different because I don't have to'. That thinking screws up your mind.

Everywhere else in MD - Go out and RP, do something other than sitting at the same scene. Please... for your own good... go outside the GGG and PLAY!
[/quote]

I only went to the GGG once, because I saw someone post something about it in the mood panels. I never even knew it existed. When I got thier I read up on it. Unlocked the things to unlock thier. Then left. I had no interest in getting wins that way. I do actually rp all the time in MD. If I didn't I would be just like a lot of people from back when I first started.

The GoE is sadly only for Mp4+ us mp3's have no opponents as burns has none for us, or I would join in, but I'm trying to figure out the loreroot guards right now. The sparring ground is a great place to go for wins and losses. The only draw back is that most idlers have no creatures left to attack and most online won't speak for you to be able to attack them, but they will yell at you for attacking them. Not sure about the Dojo though. Never been there myself.

[Miq]

Hello again

When the attack against ggg started (first day) i hated the people who did it but in the arguments i learned 1 thing, that is, people were using ggg to grind stats. I mean i also did it with ve but i had no idea that profile stats can be grided like that. From that point on i don't really care about the ggg's future. I don't have in me to grind at such levels so would prefer it gone but at the same time i have already learned that stats don't matter much so it can stay as well. My life got a lot more interesting after this.

On the other side there is one problem i see those who (newpies) actually want to fight and be somewhat succsessfull for them without ggg angiens will take ages to level. I know thats how it's supposed to be... but you should see a problem here a bit.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Miq

[VertuHonagan]

[quote name='Miq' date='29 June 2010 - 08:45 AM' timestamp='1277819113' post='62953']
Hello again

When the attack against ggg started (first day) i hated the people who did it but in the arguments i learned 1 thing. That is people were using ggg do grind stats. I mean i also did it with ve but i had no idea that profile stats can be grided like that. From that point on i don't really care about the faith of ggg. I don't have in me to grind at such levels so would prefer it gone but at the same time i have already learned that stats don't matter much so it can stay as well. My life got a lot more interesting after this.

On the other side there is one problem i see those who (newpies) actually want to fight and be somewhat succsessfull for them without ggg angiens will take ages to level. I know thats how it's supposed to be... but you should see a problem here a bit.
[/quote]

[color="#008000"]For a lot of lower mps Angiens are "almost" impossible to get without quests from other players and what not. So most of them shouldn't even be worried about Angiens. They cost so much for a reason.[/color]

[No one]

I hate repeating myself:
[quote name='No one' date='29 June 2010 - 10:40 AM' timestamp='1277800801' post='62921']
If people would stop speaking "in behalf" and speak for themselves everything would be better.
[/quote]

start of ranting
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

My friend, you and a few mp3 don't know what are you talking about.

[quote name='VertuHonagan' date='29 June 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1277817690' post='62947']
Before attacking someone. Actually read up on thier posts first.
[/quote]
I think you are talking about dst.
True, she gets annoyed easy, and she is a bit impulsive, BUT if you pay attention she is a Moderator and many can say that she reads ALL the posts. Some will even state that read forbidden LR / RPC whatever forums.
So pay attention.


[quote name='VertuHonagan' date='29 June 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1277817690' post='62947']
2. Yes and their fussing should stop being aimed at people like you and should be aimed at each other, so that they can train with each other to get better. Rather than relying on things that has been given to them.
[/quote]
That what I tried to do with this topic.
[quote name='VertuHonagan' date='29 June 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1277817690' post='62947']
Maybe if you actually talk to the players that care about GGG and help give them hints of some ideas of different things to do rather than grind. [/quote]
Now ... go to them and talk if you can and you will see what narrow minded means.
I quit doing that and I just go there when I have the time and get my share of wins for my crits and FYI I do let the others know that I WILL attack shortly.

[quote name='VertuHonagan' date='29 June 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1277817690' post='62947']
Boo hoo! 5k attack.
[/quote]
I think it was said 10k & 5k def probably all taken from GGG.


[quote name='VertuHonagan' date='29 June 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1277817690' post='62947']
So I myself am not worried about leveling up. More worried about exploring, but I think the GGG would be a decent use of only leveling up creatures and not for grinding stats. Thats in my opinion what it should be used for for us lower mp levels.
[/quote]
If any of the lower MPs protect the GGG, then ... they should stop complaining that they get smashed by uber stats as those were done in GGG.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
end of rant

Darn, I'm repeating myself.


Ok, I will say again as ppl are simply too good to read the entire topic before replying.

STOP COMPLAINING. You create your own nightmares. You train them. You enjoy giving them stats. LIVE with them.
And let me have my fun and get my share of wins. Lately I'm not even asking as it is pointless and I even get this kind of messages in my PL:
http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/7291-lets-try-to-be-stupid/#entry61979


The thing that you should have realized if you would have read the entire topic is that I'm not concerned about me not the other "vets" (strong or not) about themselves, it is all about you the new / little ppl.

So, STOP f COMPLAINING.

Edited June 29, 2010 by No one

[apophys]

Unfortunately, No one, it seems the new people don't appreciate your concern.

[quote name='dst' date='29 June 2010 - 02:13 AM' timestamp='1277795600' post='62916']
Do you think that it's normal for an mp4 to have [size="5"][b][color="#FF0000"]10k[/color][/b][/size] attack? I find it horrible!
I will support Burns with every tools I have and I will help him as much as I can.


@apophis: I missed your post today (I saw it after you edited it but I've asked around what you said in it) and I was shocked! You call yourself a vet but you have no idea what Burnsy was talking about? This is the [b][color="#FF0000"]PERFECT[/color][/b] example of what GGG does to players!
[/quote]
*sigh* I had hoped my previous post would be the last in this thread, but you're making me look stupid, dst...

[spoiler] I know a way it can be done: guardianarmy + mirror, lifestealer @ 100%. I heard, however, that guardianarmy doesn't work on alts. I never would have suspected that there could be mp4s so cheap as to be proxies, for "a shiny coin." It seems I overestimated the community. [/spoiler]

I totally agree that an mp4 with 10k attack is unacceptable. But if this is your only problem with the GGG, ask Mur to implement a cap on stat gain from sacrifice (Kyphis' idea), rather than terrorizing the newbs. I quote you, "violence is not the answer."


@ Burns - I did not rise to mp5 because of you or this protest; it's just coincidence. I rose when I did because I got credits for a rusty, and I want to train it. I made my decision to rise a long time ago, and I made it final when I got clicky editing instead of an XP reset with my last WP.

[dst]

No. I would not cap stats from sacrificing. I would cap the stats an mp3 or an mp4 can get. Less work and better results.


As for "that guardianarmy doesn't work on alts" again your information is WRONG! There was never ever a restriction regarding spells and alts. So...it works ( I just tested it to be 110% sure).
Besides there is another "issue" with alts that are used for giving xp to others. In my opinion this is not an abuse. I'm not using my alt to improve my main. Or to get anything for my main.

[Harion]

everyone, i have the perfect solution!
wait for it....
wait for it....
*drumrolls*

let's just ban all fighting in MD!
yeah! MD should just be about creature collection and RPing
wouldn't that be swell?
then, there'd be no more pissing contests on who's stronger or who's weaker

okay. you can all vote me king of MD now for being the smartest one of all.
/end

[Mya Celestia]

[color="#8B0000"][font="Palatino Linotype"]Anybody even been to GGG lately? Last time I was there, which was yesterday, nobody was there. I've only seen one or two people there now on my daily walks. For now it looks like GGG is dead.

Now we get to trip over people at the park [/font][/color]

[apophys]

At this point the only safe non-sanctuary place to idle is the Gazebo of Silence, where people idle with regen defenses, or sometimes GGG-style if they don't have effective regen.

[nadrolski]

requesting any handsome moderator to close this thread, since the GGGOGG are already victorious. thanks!

[The Phoenix]

[quote name='nadrolski' date='09 July 2010 - 03:30 AM' timestamp='1278646251' post='63690']
requesting any handsome moderator to close this thread, since the GGGOGG are already victorious. thanks!
[/quote]

[b][font="Arial"]Indeed..[/font][/b]