Decree Of The King Regarding Rhaegar

[Firsanthalas]

The simple fact of the matter is that Loreroot has a king. If you cannot or will not accept this fact and accept that I am that king (for now at least) you need to leave and go elsewhere.
Once you join an alliance, you are also accepting citizenship. I spoke to Rhaegar about this before. If you have been in an alliance before the kingship came to being, then you should have left if you didn’t accept it. By staying, you confirmed your acceptance as citizenship.

Technically, I could demand that nobody joins any alliance in Loreroot until they have accepted citizenship. I haven’t done this, because I didn’t want to interfere with the autonomy of the alliances with regard to recruiting. However, autonomy for alliances is not absolute. Each alliance has to hold allegiance to the land and its laws and ruler. Alliances cannot speak for the land as a whole. They can’t make promises or actions that will affect the land as a whole. For example, it is not their place to speak for an entire land. (I am of course referring to lands with multiple alliances and a king)

As for governance, I have made efforts to consult with the relevant alliance leaders. This process has been hard for many reasons, but regardless you all know that you can approach me and I will listen to you and give careful consideration to you and your concerns/requests/ideas.
In fact I insisted that when such meetings take place that each party be represented by two people. I might add that you yourself, Rhaegar, disliked this idea and wanted to attend meetings solely at first.

Regardless of whether an idea has merit or not, the fact remains that you can’t have a situation where people feel it is acceptable to create guilds/groups, or a title that is associated with the land.

Berating the king publicly and threatening him is also inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour. It can’t and won’t be tolerated. If it was, everyone would be doing it.


It is my personal opinion that Loreroot has a bad reputation. I feel that often it is a little unfair, but I would be an idiot to not see that there have been and continue to be problems.

Some would perhaps, say that I have fostered such things by not having a firm enough hand. In truth, I have tried to work with people and not against them. I don’t and won’t always agree to things. And yes, this may result in things looking like they are not moving forward or moving at all. However, I disagree with this. I think that we have come a long way and many things have been done and considered.

I do ask people what they think and do try to consider their ideas. I do not just shoot them down and do nothing. Again, I say that I have an open door policy.

That being said there will and have been, decisions that I will make without consulting people. The fact is that nothing would get done otherwise. If something would affect a particular group within Loreroot I would speak to them first.

And now to the matter at hand. Rhaegar has renounced his citizenship and refused to accept me as king, even though I was elected fairly. As I said at the start, if you are unhappy you should leave. He has also, to my mind at least, made threats against his king.
This is beyond acceptable and tolerable. I hereby revoke his citizenship and as such decree that he may no longer be a member of any Loreroot alliance.
I will give the Savelites the option to debate their situation among themselves and return to me with a decision. The choice is simple: remain in Loreroot and accept the situation, or leave Loreroot. By leave, I mean that the alliance will continue to exist, but will have to go to another land. (although you would have to consult Mur and/or other lands about where you would end up). (Of course, individual members may just leave the alliance and Loreroot if they can't abide the kingship.)
I should add that I have no desire to see them leave, but if you all wish to continue the Savelite church under Rhaegar’s leadership, then this is the option available to you.

Firs,
King of Loreroot

[Jubaris]

I hereby declare a rebellion against the false king of Loreroot.

I didn't thought it will take this far, and kicking me out of Savelites on such a cowardly way, made the straw.
let's see how firm your hand is.

[Chewett]

wow, action, Good Rhargar... shame its such a pointless stand, and such a pointless thing to be fighting.

Kings have power, And being rude about a king should carry consequences... so i suppose its ok.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Chewett

[Blackwoodforest]

Ah Chewett, it might be pointless for you, but sure not for him. You know, war is always something that comes out of misunderstanding of one party.

[Chewett]

Sadly i hoped something a little more constructive could have been done.

Perhaps differences aligned or words spoken, But it seems that there will be more mindless destruction.

[Sharazhad]

[color="#2e8b57"][i]The basis of Karma states in a nut-shell that you reap what you sow, that there are consequences for your actions.  Rhaegars sentencing was a consequence for his words and his actions.  
One has to learn to be responsible for the things we say and do.  Threatening a king publicly cannot be condoned. I can understand his anger - but his words now are not justifiable.   Firs was elected in a fair public election.  I only hope that this does not snowball any further than it has now.[/i][/color]

[Jubaris]

you wouldn't know me if you think it would stay on this Sharazhad.

I curse this day to make me sharp my sword against my own, but this won't end here Firsanthalas, you just started a long journey.
There are the ones who know about your treason on Loreroot from long ago, those who remember. The spirits of the old will hunt you down, usurper, and I'll do my best to please them, this is my promise.

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 04:31 PM' timestamp='1275946316' post='61307']
you wouldn't know me if you think it would stay on this Sharazhad.

I curse this day to make me sharp my sword against my own, but this won't end here Firsanthalas, you just started a long journey.
There are the ones who know about your treason on Loreroot from long ago, those who remember. The spirits of the old will hunt you down, usurper, and I'll do my best to please them, this is my promise.
[/quote]

Rhaegar.. You are my friend, Firsanthalas is my friend, and so many stand with you on this. But what you do not see are the words that lay between the lines.
The conflict you both share is borne of the fact that you both want to improve Loreroot, both of you do, but you each have different methods of doing this and because of those different methods it has caused countless arguments between the two of you. You both are prideful and you both carry egos. You will come to find (I hope), as I came to find, that there is room for both of your egos if you would both be willing to look past the anger that each of you hold toward each other and see that you share these common goals.

You can choose to ignore this post, or choose to negative rep me for it... but I have stood where you stand Rhaegar. I know exactly how you are feeling at the moment and I understand why.. but plotting against people who would support you does nothing good. Your argument and your anger is with Firsanthalas, not the whole of Loreroot.

What would have solved all of this is simple communication, if you were both willing to communicate properly with each other with an open mind but neither of you were willing to do so. Call me on this if I am wrong, but neither of you were willing to go and speak about problems and issues and opinions without imposing each other's ego on one another because of hard feelings.

I have stood in the middle of you two for a long time, trying to keep the peace...trying to keep things from exploding. Now I am worried that there is nothing I can do and that this incident will divide Loreroot more than unite it, which is all I had hoped to accomplish when I was leader of the Guardians. Should it come to that, I will not stand on any sides even if I am removed from the Eclipse and cast out of my land. There will be no war for me, not between friends.

As to Firsanthalas' treason.. I made my peace with that a long time ago. The simple fact is that he held the same goal as I did. He also wanted to improve Loreroot and personally I found nothing at all wrong with him wishing to do so.

That is all I have to say, do your worst MD but know you will get nothing but a pleasant smile from me.

[b]Edit: Edited for grammar and sentence structure.[/b]

Edited June 7, 2010 by Amoran Kalamanira Kol

[Firsanthalas]

You were removed because you openly stated you did not recognise the king nor consider yourself a citizen of Loreroot. The kings were brought in and you have to either accept them or leave. You, yourself ran in the contest for kingship, so even if you didn't like the idea, you at least accepted it.
Nobody can expect to renounce the king and refuse to accept them and expect the king to simply shrug their shoulders. It would make the king look like a fool indeed.
You forced the issue and you brought this upon yourself.

(edited to be less confrontational and more reasonable)

Edited June 7, 2010 by Firsanthalas

[CrazyMike]

It is always sad when one gets thrown out of their land or alliance.

Unfortunately, an extreme reaction was responded with an extreme action.

Rather than escalating the situation, lets talk it out.

Speak to the King, NOT push him.

We have a saying in my culture, NEVER FORCE A TIGER TO JUMP OFF A WALL!

[Pipstickz]

I agree with Firs in that he stands up for himself and what he thinks is best for his land and himself, and I agree with Rhaegar in that he fights for what he thinks is best for his alliance, and himself. While the king may have power, it's quite possible to have a civil war, is it not? The king's power is not unlimited.

[quote name='Firsanthalas' date='07 June 2010 - 01:49 PM' timestamp='1275940174' post='61293']
Berating the king publicly and threatening him is also inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour. It can’t and won’t be tolerated. If it was, everyone would be doing it.
[/quote]
Regarding this, not many people speak out against the kings because the kings don't do much publicly. Nobody has anything to be angry at you for, except maybe the fact that you don't do much publicly. So yeah.

[Fenrir Greycloth]

Actually, in all types of government, the government has absolutely no power. The government is as strong as it's people, if not weaker.

In this situation, the Monarchy is no where near absolute. The people can rise up against the monarch, without fear of real persecution.

This is what is happening now. Princ is not happy with the way things are going with Loreroot, thus he is rebelling. Is it the best idea? Not really. Firs still has a LOT of support.

If a civil war were to break out IG, the only way it could have a real impact is if no one actually supported Firs as king anymore. At least a large majority didn't anyways.

So why bother with this open warfare, Princ? It will accomplish nothing.

Apologize to the king, admit you were wrong, and go about your duties as leader of the Savelites.

[Sharazhad]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' date='07 June 2010 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1275946316' post='61307']
you wouldn't know me if you think it would stay on this Sharazhad.

I curse this day to make me sharp my sword against my own, but this won't end here Firsanthalas, you just started a long journey.
There are the ones who know about your treason on Loreroot from long ago, those who remember. The spirits of the old will hunt you down, usurper, and I'll do my best to please them, this is my promise.
[/quote]

[color="#2e8b57"][i]Civil War Rhaegar? What exactly is that gonna prove? Firsanthalas did not usurp the throne as there was no throne to begin with! Elections were open to anyone, and if I remember correctly the applicants for Kingship were you, Firs, Sage and Gremlin. The general public voted and Firs won it. As chewy mentioned earlier, if you are unhappy with his leadership you could have called for another election. Calm down - decisions made from rage are never the the best.
[/i][/color]

[cutler121]

[quote name='Sharazhad' date='08 June 2010 - 07:29 AM' timestamp='1275982159' post='61340']
[color="#2e8b57"][i]Civil War Rhaegar? What exactly is that gonna prove? Firsanthalas did not usurp the throne as there was no throne to begin with! Elections were open to anyone, and if I remember correctly the applicants for Kingship were you, Firs, Sage and Gremlin. The general public voted and Firs won it. As chewy mentioned earlier, if you are unhappy with his leadership you could have called for another election. Calm down - decisions made from rage are never the the best.
[/i][/color]
[/quote]


It sounds like the new excommunicate and send to jail item was made by Mur just in time.

If there are going to be kings and people disrespect them (this is in general not pointed at Rhaegar) then the king should have the power to punish the offenders.

Since he hasn't done so yet, it sounds like Firs has been showing constraint.

The one question this brought up in my mind is if Firs decides to excommunicate Rhaegar does that also mean that Rhaegar is no longer allowed (ie able) to enter Loreroot. If so that would actually give the king some real power.

Cutler

[phantasm]

yay my 2 cents!!!

King is the title, when really its more of a President type position. He was voted into power, not born into it, and also can be held for a new election should there be enough people requiring it. In the USA if you try to rise up against the government, they pretty much demolish you, and all those who may support you. They have an Armed Forced, political power of other countries, and the masses of the peoples following it.

Rheagar pretty much said, "down with the government", so it's no surprise he was swiftly cut down. I overheard a bit of plotting yesterday as I was ambling about. I suggest to anyone who thinks of backing Rheagar in his little tyraid, think long and hard, because these are permanent actions.

[Jubaris]

to be realistic, Firsanthalas is the king, but he doesn't have enough "army" to put me in jail, it's like a president of Mhmhmhmia who has no one around him, decides to imprison a general of the army. How da hell can he do that all by himself? (or a whole mob if you picture me as a villain)
since I do have warriors with me, he should first defeat me to imprison me (or kill me if he wants)

he also kicked me out of the Savelites Church just like that, where I have total support, so what's realistic in there?
I like the part of asylum stated by Mur in the announcements, that's a trace of realism going on out there, but there should be option for people to fight without foreign influence. this way he can imprison every Savelite for 2 weeks... which is really weird. And it dissapoints me how all those 'Lorerootians' how they call themselves, act indifferent about one of their alliances (since as you all know, things don't solve by themselves, a Firs puppet will be put in charge or Church will be ruined for period of time unless they become army of poltroons which I doubt in the current squad of Savelites. )

So I ask to Mur now for my return into the Church with my loyalty points returned to normal (since I can get my own invite if needed, but apparently Firsanthalas can just spam me to get back into prison, so I ask for that to be normalized).
He is maybe the king but he shouldn't have that much power over individuals via such features, if Savelites are destined to leave, then that may happen if my brothers and sisters wish it so, but my fight shouldn't be denied. So I ask you Mur, to return me to my place as leader of the Savelites so I can properly organize myself, as fitting. In my opinion, this last feature is role enforcing, and it isn't fitting, unless he defeats me or captures in a way, to your own special thing that brings many people here - that people make their own destiny in this realm without unnatural intrusions.

My goal is to rebuild Loreroot and to organize it, if you Mur and the realm give me the chance to fight for this.

For a better future...

respectfully,

Rhaegar, Grand Master of the Savelites Church.

[Muratus del Mur]

[quote]to be realistic, Firsanthalas is the king, but he doesn't have enough "army" to put me in jail[/quote]

You obviously have a wrong understanding of what a chain of command is. A king does not need an army to jail a citizen of his land. I understand your point, but it is far from making any sense in this situation. Why i say that? because it seems to me the majority of lorerootians did not riot against their king so the entire issue is more about a few that do not like the decisions of their king.


[quote]he also kicked me out of the Savelites Church just like that, where I have total support, so what's realistic in there?[/quote]

When a king uses the jail ability, that person gets out of that land, and by that he gets out of any ally, obviously.
The action of taking you out of the ally is not delierate but it is unavoidable by the excommunication.

[quote]this way he can imprison every Savelite for 2 weeks... which is really weird[/quote]

Technically, a king can ask for an entire ally to be sent away from his land. It is a "king-dom", the king can and will use force if needed. Of course it is unadvisable to do any action without a good reason, and kings know that. If a king, would randomly jail anyone that he dislikes, his authority will drop and then yes he will end up alone, which is not good. From the forum posts i saw so far, there was a good reason for everyone he jailed or plan to jail next.

Rhaegar, understand that elections are over , and continuing to disrespect the elected leader challenging his authority will end up in some sort of forcefull punishment, in md or in rl, it works the same way.

[quote]since I can get my own invite if needed, but apparently Firsanthalas can just spam me to get back into prison, so I ask for that to be normalized[/quote]

Again, you get this wrong, very wrong, the fact that you could get out of jail on your own is not something you should consider as a counter method to the excommunication. Once in jail you are no longer your kings subject, but you are in jail and braking out of there (again) will end up in muhc much worse action, this time from me. If you have a way to get into the alliance, tehnically you could do that, if you are still in jail, BUT....that will make you a citizen of LR again, and LR king specifically stated that he won't allow that. Going on this path will probably end up bad for you, because you are now an ex-citizen and he is the king.
An regarding the language, "Firsanthalas can just spam me to get back into prison" .. he isn't spamming he is just using the tools he has to reinforce a rule he has the right to put as a king. If he fails to do that on his own, it means he doesnt have enough tools to reinforce his decisions as a king so i will have to provide the needed tools eventually.


[quote]In my opinion, this last feature is role enforcing, and it isn't fitting, unless he defeats me or captures in a way,[/quote]


Unless i missunderstand what "role enforcing" means, the new king features, that were planned for a very very long time, are exactly for that. They allow kings to reinforce their decisions. If you attack a king , verbally , physically, etc, it is not called challenge it is called treason first of all, or more. Within Loreroot, you are not equal to Firsanthalas. Maybe you think you are because you have your own group of supporters , but remember that that group of supporters are under the kings authority, regardless if they like it or not.


[quote]..to your own special thing that brings many people here - that people make their own destiny in this realm without unnatural intrusions...
[/quote]

Let me put it in a simple way .. it is like freedom, freedom doesn't mean anyone can do anything to anybody, that is just chaos. Freedom means actually organized lack of freedom (damn, i will quote myself) ..
What makes md special is not that everyone can do whatever they like, but that they can do whatever they like while having a feedback or a reaction, good or bad, from the others inside it that do "whatever they like".




[quote]My goal is to rebuild Loreroot and to organize it, if you Mur and the realm give me the chance to fight for this.[/quote]


I can't agree with you on this, if you care about LR you should respect its social structure and not aim to get rid of its leader so that YOU can do something else with it. You had/have that chance from within LR, and you could have done that without fighting against something, since there was nobody against you to fight with.

Asking ME to give you a "chance" is like saying , fuck the king, fuck the other people in lr , i want things my way, lets ask mur for that directly.
That means you do not actually respect anything in lr except what directly interests you. Otherwise you should think of asking LR to give you that chance, not ask me to override them and give you absolute power over LR "just so"

...

[quote]respectfully,

Rhaegar, Grand Master of the Savelites Church. [/quote]

diplomacy and respectfull speaking is the right way to fight a king, since force is granted to them by default. To bad you know that only when talking to me..if you just used diplomacy and respect, maybe now you were not excommunicated from LR and in jail.

[Jubaris]

thanks for your fast reply.

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='08 June 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1276000646' post='61354']
You obviously have a wrong understanding of what a chain of command is. A king does not need an army to jail a citizen of his land. I understand your point, but it is far from making any sense in this situation. Why i say that? because it seems to me the majority of lorerootians did not riot against their king so the entire issue is more about a few that do not like the decisions of their king.
[/quote]

so what if majority is supporting him? how many times "a few" have started a rebellion against the many?
Communists from Cuba had major support at start? hell no. The Cuban capitalists had major power supporting them - USA, who is their neighbour, they had better weaponry, equipment... Step by step they've won.
President couldn't just 'injail' them (I realize this is not RL, but MD is working to be as realistic as possible, so bare with me).

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='08 June 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1276000646' post='61354']
When a king uses the jail ability, that person gets out of that land, and by that he gets out of any ally, obviously.
The action of taking you out of the ally is not delierate but it is unavoidable by the excommunication.
[/quote]

I understand, tho that shouldn't happen so easily. If he can jail people whenever he wants, is absurd. He needs to attack me in a way, and if he beats me and my supporters, then he should be able to have control over my destiny (even killing). how did he manage to capture me?

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='08 June 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1276000646' post='61354']
Technically, a king can ask for an entire ally to be sent away from his land. It is a "king-dom", the king can and will use force if needed. Of course it is unadvisable to do any action without a good reason, and kings know that. If a king, would randomly jail anyone that he dislikes, his authority will drop and then yes he will end up alone, which is not good. From the forum posts i saw so far, there was a good reason for everyone he jailed or plan to jail next.
[/quote]

he can, but if the ally wants to fight back? he can't just disband it? if it's a rebellion he needs to defeat them and make fitting actions once he wins if he does. Like do banishing, forgivance, killing.

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='08 June 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1276000646' post='61354']
Rhaegar, understand that elections are over , and continuing to disrespect the elected leader challenging his authority will end up in some sort of forcefull punishment, in md or in rl, it works the same way.
[/quote]

I realize that, but that doesn't mean I cannot voice my opinion about things. I am sorry that it turned out to be done in such poor way, few things combined when I said some words, but this is where we are. It doesn't make me any less right. I do not judge Firsanthalas for his acts, it was his time to be inconsidering, it is up for my character to make vendeta, and it is up to my character to do what he (as separate entity from me. Aysun once mentioned that we invest most of our personality into our first account, that is true, but me as an individual in RL and Rhaegar as a character are not the same.) thinks is right. My RL is my own business, thank you for your advice tho, I know what troubles with authority can make and I have thought about that, it is my own problem tho. Rhaegar made the decision, he will carry on with it.

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='08 June 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1276000646' post='61354']
Again, you get this wrong, very wrong, the fact that you could get out of jail on your own is not something you should consider as a counter method to the excommunication. Once in jail you are no longer your kings subject, but you are in jail and braking out of there (again) will end up in muhc much worse action, this time from me. If you have a way to get into the alliance, tehnically you could do that, if you are still in jail, BUT....that will make you a citizen of LR again, and LR king specifically stated that he won't allow that. Going on this path will probably end up bad for you, because you are now an ex-citizen and he is the king.
An regarding the language, "Firsanthalas can just spam me to get back into prison" .. he isn't spamming he is just using the tools he has to reinforce a rule he has the right to put as a king. If he fails to do that on his own, it means he doesnt have enough tools to reinforce his decisions as a king so i will have to provide the needed tools eventually.
[/quote]

i wasn't reffering to escape the jail (i have the lho spell to get to paper cabin, i would leave like that like the first time, but due to announcments, I will serve my time or look for asylum, you were right to make things clear, for I do not like to assume rules if there aren't any yet announced, and that's fine, you have all the rights to make whatever rules you want, this is your own game, i respect that and that's why my messages are respectful, I just need the rules to be pre-set and clear, and expect a fair treatment for players who try to accomplish their goals within those rules, if tho ones are privileged, I would accept that as your right to create rules in your own game, but I would leave the gaming of it. I think Kings aren't made how they should, for it doesn't represent their real power, it represents the power of a privilege, it is my opinion, Kings should have tools indeed, but tools to carry out events that are happening who only need your approval so they can be applied in game mechanics, getting someone in jail from a distance just like that is a privileged power)

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='08 June 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1276000646' post='61354']
Unless i missunderstand what "role enforcing" means, the new king features, that were planned for a very very long time, are exactly for that. They allow kings to reinforce their decisions. If you attack a king , verbally , physically, etc, it is not called challenge it is called treason first of all, or more. Within Loreroot, you are not equal to Firsanthalas. Maybe you think you are because you have your own group of supporters , but remember that that group of supporters are under the kings authority, regardless if they like it or not.
[/quote]

it's what I responded to my last quote, I consider that privileged power (enforcing) cause he done something he shouldn't be able to do normally. -just like that-

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='08 June 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1276000646' post='61354']
Let me put it in a simple way .. it is like freedom, freedom doesn't mean anyone can do anything to anybody, that is just chaos. Freedom means actually organized lack of freedom (damn, i will quote myself) ..
What makes md special is not that everyone can do whatever they like, but that they can do whatever they like while having a feedback or a reaction, good or bad, from the others inside it that do "whatever they like".
[/quote]


absolute freedom doesn't exist... yes I am familiar with that but it is in human's nature to aim to that freedom nonetheless. And yes that's what exactly I meant, gaining feedback on their actions, but with people having same options at the start (and becoming more powerful in time due their decisions, but in limits of reality)


[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='08 June 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1276000646' post='61354']
I can't agree with you on this, if you care about LR you should respect its social structure and not aim to get rid of its leader so that YOU can do something else with it. You had/have that chance from within LR, and you could have done that without fighting against something, since there was nobody against you to fight with.
[/quote]

I wasn't aiming to get rid of him... my rant was a result of poor circuimstances like I said, but my aim wasn't to overthrow him, I said it there, I wanted some changes, I wanted him to make things clear about somethings and 'improve' in a way (from my angle of view), to follow what he said he will do.


[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='08 June 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1276000646' post='61354']
Asking ME to give you a "chance" is like saying , fuck the king, fuck the other people in lr , i want things my way, lets ask mur for that directly.
That means you do not actually respect anything in lr except what directly interests you. Otherwise you should think of asking LR to give you that chance, not ask me to override them and give you absolute power over LR "just so"
[/quote]


I am asking for feedback on my rebellion. I do not seek absolute power, I do not seek power over others. I see Loreroot as a great opportunity for me to invest some energy into, and create something. I love creating.



As Rhaegar loves his homeland, and Rhaegar had doubts much earlier, Rhaegar also thinks that those who follow Firsanthalas are innocent, yet blinded, and Rhaegar never aimed to fight them. Rhaegar wished for this to happen differently, without this conflicts. But Rhaegar will defend his pride.

sorry for double posting, (lots of people miss my edits)


I realize I can do much with support of some... But I don't wish to do this in certain ways, not if I have no other option.
To avoid bloodshed between my brothers and sisters against those who I called my own people, I challenge Firsanthalas to a duel, with results of solving this dispute.

[Sharpwind]

A King falls when
the Kingdom falls(enemy kingdom wins the war),
or the majority of people start a rebellion (not a minority),
or steps down and a new one is elected

Until that his rule is absolute and I haven't heard of a King dueling every citizen that disagrees with any decision he makes

My point is ... what you(Rhaegar) propose is not reasonable...

if you want to oppose a King you have two choices
either make the majority of citizens rebel against him (not the case here)
or join another Kingdom in the hopes of it helping you achieve your goals (but it looks a bit like treason)

just my thoughts on the matter...

[Jubaris]

it is reasonable for otherwise there will be a conflict where more people will be involved, Lorerootians against Lorerootians, majority or not, there are people who value friendship with me more than bowing to a King's wish of banishing me, and who will choose to stand with me. I have said that I won't grudge people who will decide not to fight, it is their right and I respect that, but I embrace all of those who are willing to help the cause. Maybe you assume I have no chances so my point of a duel seems funny to you, well you're wrong.

I am a weak fighter, tho I am adept at casting and will do my best, and I am presenting an option to avoid conflicting Lorerootians against each other for what seems to be a personal issue between two people by some. So I challenge Firsanthalas to a duel. Accept or not, you have time Firsanthalas to choose by Wednesday 23:59 server time. If you don't reply to this, I will assume you denied the opportunity to minimize the collateral damage, and chose to hide.

If I lose, he can do what ever he wants with me.
If I win, council will be made that will be the highest power of Loreroot (King account would only make its decisions real)

[Firsanthalas]

Err...you are completely missing the point. Unless there is a majority of people that want me to step down, then I am king. You are simply acting like a rabble rouser and malcontent. The notion of a king conceding to duel with everyone that doesn't agree with them is ridiculous.
You are in no position to make ultimatums or threats. You can go and try to take the throne by force, but all that will be is an unlawful coup and will have no meaning. You are going against the law of the land and the will of the people. I will step down if that is the wish of the people. I am beholden to them, not to you or any other malcontents and trouble makers.

[Chewett]

Rhaegar, trying to goad Firsan into accepting something that would make you a dictoator? That would NOT help loreroot as it would split it very nicely.

Currently i do not see anyone who is agreeing with your position? Everyone here who has posted, LR and non LR people have said you are making a mistake and should rectify it by stopping or talking it over.

What do you really want? Because this isnt making LR any better, its just causing it be much weaker. As Mur pointed out if you care about LR you should respect its social structure. The best way to make something weak is to have a "civil war". England Supported America and some of the rebels during the Civil war because we knew they would be weaker and would be much easier to invade after a coup (nice eh? )

You argue against his position of power, although democratically elected, Yet want him to agree to something that might place you on the throne without ANY consultation at all.

If you wanted the best for loreroot you would NOT insult him at every oppertunity and goad him into doing something rash. From your action it seems like you want to split and break LR so that its more fitting to your "view" of how it should be. I know a leader from WW2 that also wanted that...

[Metal Bunny]

BaH, disgusting!

Know ye not the lore of old? (otherwise known as stuff I witnessed and influenced myself)
Savelfuser, the great ghost was once a fellow alliance member, part of the first triumvirate along with me and yrthilian, who were left to rule the GG alliance when Wodin Ullr fell valiantly in battle.

I relinquished my responsibility to yrthilian, so that I could focus more on being a better mp6 and RPC.
Yrthilian continued to lead GG.
Savelfuser left, stating that he had wished, from the start, to create his own alliance, for the greater good of Loreroot.
Savelfuser cared for the worshippers of his church, and cared for the land. He healed, he gave advice and he proved to be loyal to Loreroot, above that of old friends and old lands, such as GG.

Now look at what you are doing.

A civil war?

And an unjust one at that.

Firsanthalas was /chosen/ and then placed into power. Firsanthalas states and holds true to the fact that he wishes the best for Loreroot, much like Savelfuser.

The only 2 real arguments you could have for a coup would be if the people screamed for the King's throat and if the King's actions were adverse for the land.
Neither is the case. There has been no war, no malcontent, no malice, except from you.

You say that Firsanthalas betrayed his land before; why would a king do so now, and for what gain? And most of all, are you not the one who is betraying his land, right at this very moment?

As an old friend of Savelfuser, as a person who knew him, the very thought of what you are doing now is repulsive.
Stop what you are doing, apologize and for the love of Savelfuser, stop making his church look bad.

The GG Alliance officially support the King of Loreroot in this matter

[Prince Marvolo]

For the record:

I have nothing to do with this all. Not has the Savelites Church.

For the time beeing, I took the lead of the Savelites Church.
I cannot speak for individuals tough, but as alliance, we do not want to get involved in this.. At least, not further.

It is a sad thing 3 members of the church were found traitors, But that does not mean we All are.
I hope this is understood.
The Savelite Church IS Loreroot, and STILL is Loreroot, wether individuals might like it or not.


Any questions about this matter should be adressed to me,

Thank you.

M

[Metal Bunny]

That's great news, it'd suck if the Church had to undergo even more warmongering to establish it's leadership, just so that it could stabilize and grow again.